***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[IATT]

dwalk31 as an African American and someone who has openly supported republicans, why would they vote against this?


House passes CROWN Act banning discrimination against Black hairstyles
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/po...ing-discrimination-black-hairstyles-rcna20617

 

[IATT]

 

[elpablo21]

OG piece...

 

[osh kosh bosh]

OG piece...

we as a commentariot need to just declare a ceasefire.
the two sides are so far apart, discussion is basically impossible.

like to me a person who is more sympathetic to the Op eds view

that "take down" was totally impotent, willfully obtuse,
and eventfully goes on to prove the point of the op-ed.

its not just i disagree, it's;
"I disagree AND you are crypto racists, simply trying to foster and promote white victimhood."

my favorite one is this one.
remember kids, cancel culture isn't real, it's all a racist plot
there is no culture of in group censorship and shunning...

AND

everyone on the NY Time op ed board should resign and retract.




this debate is so pointless. I apologize for being apart of it.

 

[dragicon]

Based on **** like this and how republicans go back to their constituents saying how much money they got from the federal govt, I'm starting to think they don't know their votes are public info.

They know they’re public info, they just don’t care.

 

[wavycrocket]

we as a commentariot need to just declare a ceasefire.
the two sides are so far apart, discussion is basically impossible.

like to me a person who is more sympathetic to the Op eds view

that "take down" was totally impotent, willfully obtuse,
and eventfully goes on to prove the point of the op-ed.

its not just i disagree, it's;
"I disagree AND you are crypto racists, simply trying to foster and promote white victimhood."

my favorite one is this one.
remember kids, cancel culture isn't real, it's all a racist plot
there is no culture of in group censorship and shunning...

AND

everyone on the NY Time op ed board should resign and retract.




this debate is so pointless. I apologize for being apart of it.

Might be your worst post yet.

But the laughing emojis make ya feel good.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Might be your worst post yet.

But the laughing emojis make ya feel good.

when you can't cry you gotta laugh

 

[1995]

"Many know they shouldn’t utter racist things, but they don’t understand what they can say about race or can say to a person of a different race from theirs. Attacking people in the workplace, on campus, on social media and elsewhere who express unpopular views from a place of good faith is the practice of a closed society."

Good faith racism?

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[RustyShackleford]

OG piece...

Brah I read this and just rolled my eyes at the article in some places. This is just the basic centrist criticism lacking anything truly insightful

I mean they lay out both sidesism in a sentence, one is clearly worse than the other, but they spend equal time (if not a bit more) on the liberal side.

I was reading some of these passages in awe at how shallow their thinking was. And the lack of self-awareness...

Pollsters asked how free people felt today to discuss six topics — including religion, politics, gender identity and race relations — compared to 10 years ago: more free, less free or the same. Those who felt freest were Black respondents: At least 30 percent of them said they felt more free to speak on every topic, including 42 percent on race relations, the highest share of any racial or ethnic group. Still, that sentiment of more freedom among Black respondents reached only 46 percent, not a majority (the 46 percent being on the issue of gender identity).

Ummmm, ok. Like I could be reading it wrong but isn't this saying that there has been a respondent acknowledged positive trend in a subgroup compared to others? This right here could be signaling what is driving other people's grievances.

At the same time, a full 84 percent of Black people polled shared the concern of this editorial that it was a “very serious” or “somewhat serious” problem that some Americans do not exercise their freedom of speech out of fear of retaliation or harsh criticism. And 45 percent of Black people and nearly 60 percent of Latinos and white people polled reported that they’d held their tongues in the past year out of fear of retaliation or harsh criticism.

If this is the case, then the conclusion they are drawing seems wrong to me. Black people might not be taking issue with progressive speech codes, but conservative speech codes. The survey doesn't do much to detangle those two things out. And because of that NYT gets to use the data to make assertions beyond what the data shows.

While the level of national anxiety around free speech is apparent, the solutions are much less clear. In the poll, 66 percent of respondents agreed with the following: “Our democracy is built upon the free, open and safe exchange of ideas, no matter how different they are. We should encourage all speech so long as it is done in a way that doesn’t threaten others.” Yet a full 30 percent agreed that “while I support free speech, sometimes you have shut down speech that is antidemocratic, bigoted or simply untrue.” Those who identified themselves as Democrats and liberals showed a higher level of support for sometimes shutting down such speech.

And this is bad because? Especially if liberals are saying that antidemocratic, bigot and untrue speech should be challenged. In a time

The full-throated defense of free speech was once a liberal ideal. Many of the legal victories that expanded the realm of permissible speech in the United States came in defense of liberal speakers against the power of the government — a ruling that students couldn’t be forced to recite the Pledge of Allegiance, a ruling protecting the rights of students to demonstrate against the Vietnam War, a ruling allowing the burning of the American flag.

The defense of free speech is a liberal ideal. Unfettered peddling of whatever people wanted to say has not. People point to legal victories in a time, ok, but those victories were one party because of bipartisan agreement around certain principles. Liberal judges will continue on this path, reactionary Federalist Society members have already shown they are open to allowing conservatives use their legislative power to curtail free speech.

This is a weirdo argument that relies on a bait and switch. Like potential shifts in the views, liberal judges are a problem as well.

And yet many progressives appear to have lost faith in that principle. This was a source of great frustration for one of those who responded to our poll, Emily Leonard, a 93-year-old from Hartford, Conn., who described herself as a liberal. She said she was alarmed about reports of speakers getting shouted down on college campuses. “We need to hear what people think, even though we disagree with them. It is the basis of our democracy. And it’s absolutely essential to a continuing democracy,” she said. “Liberal as I am — a little to the left of Lenin — I think these kids and this whole cancel culture and so-called woke is doing us so much harm. They’re undermining the Constitution. That’s what it comes down to.”

Ahhhh the concern quotes behind, slanted in one direction. So protesting a speaker is undermining the constitution? This is laughable, the right to protest is protected by the constitution and it is not unlimited in schools. I feel students should be open to having hard conversations. But they should be free to protest speakers and yell down racists too.

The progressive movement in America has been a force for good in many ways: for social and racial justice, for pay equity, for a fairer system and society and for calling out hate and hate speech. In the course of their fight for tolerance, many progressives have become intolerant of those who disagree with them or express other opinions and taken on a kind of self-righteousness and censoriousness that the right long displayed and the left long abhorred. It has made people uncertain about the contours of speech: Many know they shouldn’t utter racist things, but they don’t understand what they can say about race or can say to a person of a different race from theirs. Attacking people in the workplace, on campus, on social media and elsewhere who express unpopular views from a place of good faith is the practice of a closed society.

The same **** I always say, some people commend the progressive movement for their gains, yet don't give any real deep thought how they were achieved. It is like treating progressives to yesteryear the same way white people treat MLK. Sanitizing the actions of people to use them to attack the relative ideological equivalents.

Like how to we move the margins toward a more tolerant society if this idealistic marketplace of ideas is being presented here. The idea progressive of before did it in someway completely different is BS to me.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The usual suspects in media are gonna applaud this article, repeat their criticism of conservatives, say a line about conservatives for cover, and refuse to give any deeper thought to the question surrounding this issue beyond the stuff that makes them feel they are correct.

Even if I can agree that a few progressives take it too far. I didn't find this particularly insightful. It didn't thoroughly explain the asymmetry in the problem. Releis on a qualitative survey that says much less than they think. And repeats rather lazy centrist rhetoric.

It was written for a particular audience, with certain priors, and they will love this ****. And attack anyone that disagrees as a bad actor.

 

[RustyShackleford]

"Many know they shouldn’t utter racist things, but they don’t understand what they can say about race or can say to a person of a different race from theirs. Attacking people in the workplace, on campus, on social media and elsewhere who express unpopular views from a place of good faith is the practice of a closed society."

Good faith racism?

I have reached the point were it is clear to me that we will never have a nuanced discussion on this issue because the critics have brain worms.

 

[RustyShackleford]

we as a commentariot need to just declare a ceasefire.
the two sides are so far apart, discussion is basically impossible.

like to me a person who is more sympathetic to the Op eds view

that "take down" was totally impotent, willfully obtuse,
and eventfully goes on to prove the point of the op-ed.

its not just i disagree, it's;
"I disagree AND you are crypto racists, simply trying to foster and promote white victimhood."

my favorite one is this one.
remember kids, cancel culture isn't real, it's all a racist plot
there is no culture of in group censorship and shunning...

AND

everyone on the NY Time op ed board should resign and retract.




this debate is so pointless. I apologize for being apart of it.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

"Many know they shouldn’t utter racist things, but they don’t understand what they can say about race or can say to a person of a different race from theirs. Attacking people in the workplace, on campus, on social media and elsewhere who express unpopular views from a place of good faith is the practice of a closed society."

Good faith racism?

"You are confused? Why?"
It's simple, we've just expanded the definition to racism into a byzantine labyrinth of various contradictory ideas,
and if you mess up you're a racist for life,

what's the problem?"

 

[RustyShackleford]

"You are confused? Why?"
It's simple, we've just expanded the definition to racism into a byzantine labyrinth of various contradictory ideas,
and if you mess up you're a racist for life,

what's the problem?"

Could you give me some examples of the complex labyrinth of contradictory ideas regarding race that is unfairly ruining the lives of white people?

Like I am willing to admit some people got an unfair deal. Like for the cafeteria workers at Smith College. But I would love to hear someone make a convincing cogent argument about this being the central tendency in society. That is white people's lives being ruined by a crazy labyrinth of contradictory ideas on race.

BTW, do you want to acknowledge racism against minorities from white people is worse upfront, or do you want to hold onto that sentence to roll it out a few posts in?

 

[aepps20]

"Many know they shouldn’t utter racist things, but they don’t understand what they can say about race or can say to a person of a different race from theirs. Attacking people in the workplace, on campus, on social media and elsewhere who express unpopular views from a place of good faith is the practice of a closed society."

Good faith racism?

That's how I see it. You can only tell person that they're racist enough times before they have to drop da N bomb.

 

[RustyShackleford]

In a world where states are passing laws to protect the feelings of white people, I'm eager to hear about how progressives have conspired to make society too hostile to the white people's views on race.

Sitting back, ready to be educated...

 

[1995]

That's how I see it. You can only tell person that they're racist enough times before they have to drop da N bomb.

Or, as the opinion piece would say...

"When speech is stifled or when dissenters are shut out of public discourse, a society also loses its ability to resolve conflict, and it faces the risk of political violence."

 

[aepps20]

Or, as the opinion piece would say...

"When speech is stifled or when dissenters are shut out of public discourse, a society also loses its ability to resolve conflict, and it faces the risk of political violence."

Well said and I agree. I think da worse slur in da world is "karen". I have been called Da N word as recent as 2021 but that was due to economic anxiety. The HATE I see in a person's eyes when they use "karen" in a hostile way is why WOKE BOIS AND CANCEL SJWS must be stopped.

 

[zekethephysique]

This.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Could you give me some examples of the complex labyrinth of contradictory ideas regarding race that is unfairly ruining the lives of white people?

Like I am willing to admit some people got an unfair deal. Like for the cafeteria workers at Smith College. But I would love to hear someone make a convincing cogent argument about this being the central tendency in society. That is white people's lives being ruined by a crazy labyrinth of contradictory ideas on race.

Ruined life? I said being branded a racist, most of the time
he most famous instances are the people powerful enough to resist.

which imo serves to chill the speech of the 99% who are less famous and powerful

heres a good recent one about a literal woman named Karen.
Knitting blogger, post an anodyne blog post about a trip to india.

of course devolved into accusations of racism.

So if you are not interested in non white cultures, you are racist.
If you are too interested, well that's a colonial mindset. you are also racist.

If you don't know why your comment was racist, well you're racist.
if you want to ask a minority why the comment was racist guess what

you are asking a minority to perform emotional labour...you are also a racist.

She is force to beg and prostrate before her various culture war accusers
and then is used as an example of racial reckoning within the knitting community
in major media publications.

can you not see how non famous person can look at this and fear anodyne comments
can be twisted in racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia ect ect

BTW, do you want to acknowledge racism against minorities from white people is worse upfront, or do you want to hold onto that sentence to roll it out a few posts in?

you right I should state that now to head off the silly whataboutism that inevitably comes out anytime this topic is broached.

is this the worst thing on the literal planet, no, planet is filled with horrors.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

In a world where states are passing laws to protect the feelings of white people, I'm eager to hear about how progressives have conspired to make society too hostile to the white people's views on race.

Sitting back, ready to be educated...

here we go, whataboutism on deck.
never fails.

 

[wavycrocket]

 

[RustyShackleford]

here we go, whataboutism on deck.
never fails.

You wanted to answer dude's jokes with a flippant post of your own. Now you take issue with me mocking

******* spare me

 

[Methodical Management]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

You wanted to answer dude's jokes with a flippant post of your own. Now you take issue with me mocking

****ing spare me

please, im returning the mockery.

I predicted whataboutism, and speak of the devil and it appears.