***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[buddhashark]

The unemployment benefits has my wife starting line cooks at 20 an hour.

she’s totally fine with it, they’ve been underpaid for so long. With their OT they all make 55k or so.

last year they made 14 an hour.

Yeah, this unemployment was ill conceived from the beginning. My friend’s wife lost her job cuz all the coworkers refused to go back to work when her store was allowed to reopen so the owner decided to keep it closed.
My neighbor makes well over six figures and ended up getting the full $1030/week unemployment benefit even though he was only 20% furloughed. He made a lot more to work less.

 

[mplsdunk]

Personal responsibility politics is like NIMBYISM

Sometimes I forget it has a home on the left too.

I have no problem with min wage going up. It could go to 50 an hour and people will still be broke. It’s the American way.

 

[KHUFU]

I have no problem with min wage going up. It could go to 50 an hour and people will still be broke. It’s the American way.

No doubt, and that is because people are not taught how to handle money in regard to investing, saving. Many americans are no doubt financially illiterate. That literacy void was done on purpose. Salute the flag, pledge the allegiance, love jesus, and go shopping.

 

[mplsdunk]

They should teach it in school, max put your Roth, then you can buy a Gucci belt.

 

[KHUFU]

I know that I am going to have to hurt a few of these idiots.

Capitol rioter charged with threatening to 'assassinate' Rep. Ocasio-Cortez

The Justice Department revealed new charges against a Texas man who allegedly participated in the Capitol attack and posted online death threats against Democratic Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and a US Capitol Police officer.

www.cnn.com

 

[RustyShackleford]

I have no problem with min wage going up. It could go to 50 an hour and people will still be broke. It’s the American way.

People should not put themselves in debt to finance **** that only gives them a short burst in utility

But I often here that discussed like it is some major economic problem that needs to be solved for the country's economic situation to improve. It really isn't

Also the rub is

If everyone saved and didn't indulge in a decent amount of consumer spending, the economy would contract, and a lot of the people preaching personal responsibility will have their own economic prospects affected. Consumer spending helps prop up the economy.

Should people be better with their money, of course, is that what is squeezing the middle class, no.

I mean in a conversation dealing with a clear anti-poverty policy like minimum wage, like always, there needs to be a healthy dose of personal responsibility politics, Especially since we know now that being poor actually puts people into a mental state where they are more inclined to make poor financial decisions.

Like Obama said, framing things with the same language Reagan established is holding back our policy debates.

 

[KHUFU]

They should teach it in school, max put your Roth, then you can buy a Gucci belt.

Word.

It took me years to find out about cash out refinancing. I just recently bought a new home, after learning that I did not have to sell my duplex in Manhattan in order to do so. Saved money, bought a new house, kept the old one.

 

[wr]

Ok, that is true in much of the country. Not denying that.

Just pointing out that 15/hr doesn't keep people below the poverty line. One of the best points in its favor is that it will pull a lot of people above it. That is a great thing and should be repeated over and over.

And none of the proponents of $15 argue it is the end all be all over anti-poverty legislation.

I feel like $15/hr" is now a thing. A phrase. I'm afraid they will pat themselves on the back for a long time and treat it like a wonder cure to our economic woes.

 

[aepps20]

Kind of like all those times Delk claimed he was concerned about Trump's words.

 

[mplsdunk]

We need higher min wage, counseling before you throw 100k at a degree, more home ownership etc etc.

Min wage isn’t end all be all.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I feel like $15/hr" is now a thing. A phrase. I'm afraid they will pat themselves on the back for a long time and treat it like a wonder cure to our economic woes.

Joe Biden included the biggest minimum wage increase in his rescue plan. 5 years ago it might have been a phrase. States pulled the trigger on it, the president is ready to pull the trigger point, it has moved beyond a thing. And if they do get it passed, they should pat themselves on the back. All progressive that thought for it should.

But no one argues that it the only policy solution. Not even close.

There are tons of antipoverty measures being considered as well.

Some that can get done through reconciliation, some can't.

 

[buddhashark]

it sucks for a lot of people but that’s what happens when they’ve been preaching you’ll be rich if you’re an engineer for 25 years.

They also don’t do a good job of explaining what engineering actually is in high school. At least at mine. All I got was the basic “well, you’re good at math and science and this is the average starting salary.” It was also right after the tech bubble burst in 2000 so everyone was saying comp sci was over saturated. Oops.
My engineering degree has worked out for me but I don’t do much ‘engineering’ with it. If I could do it over I would have majored in something else.

 

[KHUFU]

There wouldn't be poverty if people were truly educated on finance.

If they taught finance before they speak of loyalty to a flag and then jesus, things would be very different.

It wasn't until 50 years ago that women were able to apply for a loan, in order to buy a house in america.

Women at that point, could not even apply for a credit card, and this was in the early seventies.

This country keeps people ignorant on purpose.

 

[heelsandeers]

There are two issues I think need to be addressed though and one is a thing I have an issue with that you mentioned.

Earned income tax credit. Why do we as the tax payer have to provide this to individuals because a company doesn’t want to pay them a fair wage? We are subsidizing these corporations.

We are literally providing corporate welfare and it’s only benefiting the well off. I’m in thetop 20% so yes I do benefit from it. But would I take a 1.5% smaller return on my 401k so I people can live a better life and we would have less wasteful spending?

what is a fair wage though? what if the wage that produces maximum utility for low wage, low skill people is less than the living wage?

we live in an imperfect labor market in which employers have all the power. there's a gap between the prevailing wage and workers' productivity. Marx called this "surplus value"

while some of Marx's economic theories weren't really accurate, the concept of surplus value is a solid description of imperfect labor markets

the role of a minimum wage is to make sure that employers with their vastly superior leverage don't just put the "surplus value" in their pocket. but that wage can't exceed productivity because no employer is going to willingly submit to that

the Government has additional tools at its disposal: raising income taxes and boosting support for poor workers, which are more effective anti-inequality measures imo

that's not to say the minimum wage shouldn't be an additional tool that is used. i would just like to hear more from economists on what that number should be

 

[Based Jesus]

Local minimum wages tied to the CPI
Support for unions, criminalize corporate blowback for unionization
Democratic workplaces where every employee owns equity

 

[Upptempo]

the saddest thing is that people who make barely over minimum wage are the ones who are against increasing minimum wage. If you make the debate point that the working class employees barely can afford to live while the CEO level guys make $20mil+ they fight to defend the income of those people harder than they fight for the incomes of people in their pay bracket.

 

[RustyShackleford]

We need higher min wage, counseling before you throw 100k at a degree, more home ownership etc etc.

Min wage isn’t end all be all.

You see this is cool and all, and I would agree, but it also touches on my point about personal responsibility politics being injected into the mix at every turn

Education and housing are two areas where society has allowed the cost of them to hyperinflate. Maybe if going to college was cheaper then loans wouldn't drag down someone's economic prospects for life. If housing was less expensive maybe more people could afford homes.

American needs to tackle the systematic issues because that is what drivea most of the poor outcomes we see, not poor choices by people.

 

[walkingBred]

.

 

[cosmiccoffee9]

am i missing something or are we discussing starvation wages and long-term financing techniques in the same conversation?

HALF of US workers cap out at 2x minimum wage and the question is financial savvy?

 

[Present]

There wouldn't be poverty if people were truly educated on finance.

If they taught finance before they speak of loyalty to a flag and then jesus, things would be very different.

It wasn't until 50 years ago that women were able to apply for a loan, in order to buy a house in america.

Women at that point, could not even apply for a credit card, and this was in the early seventies.

This country keeps people ignorant on purpose.

...and Reparations!

 

[frank 7he t4nk]

Wealth building

Word.

It took me years to find out about cash out refinancing. I just recently bought a new home, after learning that I did not have to sell my duplex in Manhattan in order to do so. Saved money, bought a new house, kept the old one.

 

[aepps20]

You see this is cool and all, and I would agree, but it also touches on my point about personal responsibility politics being injected into the mix at every turn

Education and housing are two areas where society has allowed the cost of them to hyperinflate. Maybe if going to college was cheaper then loans wouldn't drag down someone's economic prospects for life. If housing was less expensive maybe more people could afford homes.

American needs to tackle the systematic issues because that is what drivea most of the poor outcomes we see, not poor choices by people.

Education is way too expensive. The fact that these universities are still charging full price when doing remote learning is ridiculous.

 

[buddhashark]

what is a fair wage though? what if the wage that produces maximum utility for low wage, low skill people is less than the living wage?

we live in an imperfect labor market in which employers have all the power. there's a gap between the prevailing wage and workers' productivity. Marx called this "surplus value"

while some of Marx's economic theories weren't really accurate, the concept of surplus value is a solid description of imperfect labor markets

the role of a minimum wage is to make sure that employers with their vastly superior leverage don't just put the "surplus value" in their pocket. but that wage can't exceed productivity because no employer is going to willingly submit to that

the Government has additional tools at its disposal: raising income taxes and boosting support for poor workers, which are more effective anti-inequality measures imo

that's not to say the minimum wage shouldn't be an additional tool that is used. i would just like to hear more from economists on what that number should be

This. And one way to reduce the share of the power that employers have is to increase employment. Raising the minimum wage doesn’t do that either.

 

[aepps20]

Word.

It took me years to find out about cash out refinancing. I just recently bought a new home, after learning that I did not have to sell my duplex in Manhattan in order to do so. Saved money, bought a new house, kept the old one.

But you are Handsome which also makes a difference. Ugly dudes have no chance.

 

[RustyShackleford]

...and Reparations!

Delk's reparations gotta get paid out in cocoa butter.

We gotta help him help himself