Official NBA 2012-2013 Season Thread

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solarius49 said:
Sheesh OKB you want Nerlens Noel that bad? You would rather have your team be a perennial bottom feeder than in the playoffs, or close to it?
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Would much rather take the OKC, route, draft players and wathc them develop.

Put it this way.

Who is closer to winning a chip?

Cleveland or the Raptors?
Hornets or the Raptors?
Detroit or the Raptors?

I would much rather have, Nelrens Noel, Andrew Wiggins, Jabari parker ect ect than Rudy ******g Gay.
 
Yeah Iggy never became a good offensive player, but he's the definition of an elite defender.
 
Osh Kosh Bosh said:
1. The Chicago Bulls have a very similar record to the Grizzlies without Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah as their best player, the difference between but some how you belive the difference between Marc Gasol and Joakim Noah is significant? Why? Marc Gasol has improved since I said that but still it remains not an unreasonable opinion to have.

2. Defense counts, Iggy is truly an incredible defender, in the Tony Allen, LeBron James class, I don't judge players strictly by their offensive contributions.

3. When Rudy is the best player, your team is very likley to be in the lottery, this is very difficult to escape.
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Marc is a much better offensive player than Noah. I don't even see why this is debatable. Marc is listed a better interior defender than Noah right now and better passer. Noah is a better rebounder. I will agree that they are very close in the defense and passing category, but Marc trumps him in the offensive category. Being that Marc is much better than him in one category and slightly better in two other categories, I'll give him the clear edge. Marc was also the best player on a Memphis team last season in a much tougher conference that tied for the 3rd best record in that conference.

I agree that defense counts, but that doesn't make Rudy some terrible defender. He's a lot better than people give him credit for. He may not be an elite defender, but he is above average and has the ability to turn it on against elite level competition to try and contain those guys. One thing Rudy is only getting better at is closing games and that's something neither Deng or Iguodala can come close to it.

Rudy was already an elite shot maker down the stretch, but now he's getting better in other areas down the stretch to make him more valuable. That should not be ignored and that's something that every team needs to even have a chance at winning big games. That's why I preferred for Memphis to keep him, even though I didn't want him as our best player. He brings something to the table that 98% of the players in the league can't even do on a consistent basis.

And you're completely right on #3. If Rudy is your best player, your team will not go too far. I do think Toronto can make the playoffs with him as their best player, though. If they matched up with a team not named the Bulls, possibly Nets and of course the Heat, I think they could steal a series. I just think you're selling Rudy way too short, saying that he's nothing more than the 4th best player on a championship level team. He was considered our 3rd best player at the time and I think he really was our 2nd this season behind Marc.
 
I would take Iggy over Gay in a heartbeat. What Iggy brings to the floor w/ his defense alone is more valuable than anything Gay does.

Gay has a Joe Johnson contract, I feel bad for Raptors fan cuz you're stuck in mediocrity until his contract expires.
That means no Jerome Randle, Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker.

Very depressing and honestly, the worst place to be in the NBA.
 
SoHi 23 said:
I would take Iggy over Gay in a heartbeat. What Iggy brings to the floor w/ his defense alone is more valuable than anything Gay does.

Gay has a Joe Johnson contract, I feel bad for Raptors fan cuz you're stuck in mediocrity until his contract expires.
That means no Jerome Randle, Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker.

Very depressing and honestly, the worst place to be in the NBA.
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The Thunder own their next lottery pick anyways (top 3 protected), got it from Houston in the James Harden trade (Lowry)
 
Iggy is probably the best perimeter defender in the league. Has been for quite some time. Rudy is an above average defender. Not Iggy level but he's not bad.






And how is Rudy Gay overrated? Everybody hates him because of his contract anyway. Which is completely unfair.
 
SoHi 23 said:
Gay has a Joe Johnson contract,.
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Gay does not have a Joe Johnson contract. Joe Johnson is guaranteed $69.3M AFTER this season for the next 3 seasons and is in his 30's.

Gay is guaranteed $17.8M next year and has a player option for $19M, that may end up opting out of to get another long term deal. Plus Joe Johnson is making almost $4M more than Rudy this season, while having an even worse season than Rudy.

The only thing that is making Iguodala and Deng a little more attractive than Rudy is the fact that they make a little less than he does. If they ended up signing similar long term deals, I don't even think it would be a discussion.
 
He sucks though? Nah...He is what he is. A third tier type player in the NBA. His contract is outrageous and a team killer at that, but he isn't as bad as you make it seem OKB. On Toronto though, I can see where the frustration comes from. I think Gay would be a great fit as a Robin to one of the Batman's in the league. (Lebron, Durant, Rose)
 
I'd put Rudy in top 5 SFs
Osh Kosh Bosh said:
Andre Iguodala is so much better than Rudy Gay it's a joke, he is an ELITE, defender and has been forever. the difference between them on offense negligible.
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  what?
 
Osh Kosh Bosh said:
Andre Iguodala is so much better than Rudy Gay it's a joke, he is an ELITE, defender and has been forever. the difference between them on offense negligible.
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I'm the biggest Dre fan on this board my man and I even know that Rudy's offense is better. Dre is easily a far better defender but his offense is so inconsistent. But my guy is always putting up 14 8 6 which I'll take any day. :smokin
 
3miyasaki3 said:
Osh Kosh Bosh said:
Andre Iguodala is so much better than Rudy Gay it's a joke, he is an ELITE, defender and has been forever. the difference between them on offense negligible.
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I'm the biggest Dre fan on this board my man and I even know that Rudy's offense is better. Dre is easily a far better defender but his offense is so inconsistent. But my guy is always putting up 14 8 6 which I'll take any day. :smokin
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Basically, they both epitomize a certain role that are best served on certain teams. That's how I look at them, at least.
 
Osh Kosh Bosh said:
You are dead wrong. period. Sixers went from having the 3rd best defense to outside of the top 10 thats not a fluke or an accident.
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You don't think losing Elton Brand had at least a big part in that? >D he ain't as good this year, but last year he was a force.

Iggy being marginally different than Rudy on offense is hilarious though.
 
SoHi 23 said:
I would take Iggy over Gay in a heartbeat. What Iggy brings to the floor w/ his defense alone is more valuable than anything Gay does.

Gay has a Joe Johnson contract, I feel bad for Raptors fan cuz you're stuck in mediocrity until his contract expires.
That means no Jerome Randle, Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker.
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those guys weren't going to be Canada-bound anyway
259696
 
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Iggy isn't a great offensive player by any means, but Rudy Gay isn't exactly Kevin Durant. This season Rudy is scoring 4 more points a game but it's taking him 5 more shots. For their career they have roughly the same rebound rate, while Iggy's assist rate is double. They make roughly the same amount of FTs and 3s per game. 

Rudy is the better offensive talent, sure. But we're not talking about one on one, we're talking about as a championship team. I take an elite wing defender who gets 15, 6, and 5 a game as my 2nd or 3rd option over an inefficient SF who doesn't do anything exceptionally well.
 
Big J 33 said:
Iggy isn't a great offensive player by any means, but Rudy Gay isn't exactly Kevin Durant. This season Rudy is scoring 4 more points a game but it's taking him 5 more shots. For their career they have roughly the same rebound rate, while Iggy's assist rate is double. They make roughly the same amount of FTs and 3s per game. 

Rudy is the better offensive talent, sure. But we're not talking about one on one, we're talking about as a championship team. I take an elite wing defender who gets 15, 6, and 5 a game as my 2nd or 3rd option over an inefficient SF who doesn't do anything exceptionally well.
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Precisely.

You can talk about talent till your blue in the face, but ifg you look at there offensive production over the course of their careers, there is not a significant difference between Rudy and Iggy. period.


http://www.basketball-reference.com...sum=1&p1=gayru01&y1=2013&p2=iguodan01&y2=2013

Iggy is a much better facilitator and passer, rudy scores and a slightly higher volume but less efficiently.

The difference between Iggy and Rudy on offense is negligible.
 
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