Official DragonBall Z Thread. R.I.P Akira Toriyama. You will be missed

[Top Boy]

Let's be real here, SS2 is just SS1 with electric stuff. DBZ isn't dead, it's actually the same. The difference if just now we are older and see how ridiculous it all is

I said the same thing when my brother was talking about rewatching the entire series again.

It's just hard to accept the fact that one of your childhood gems was lowkey trash in disguise.

It was like taking a golden ****. It's golden, but still ****.

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

Why is it worse exactly?

Because you don't like the new forms and gohan is weak?

I don't care about the forms but I can't accept Gohan being such a scrub

A recurring theme in this thread is that Goku mastered SS so he has no need to go to SS2 or SS3 yet he used SS3 against Beerus

This was after BOG

 

[hypebeast5]

Someone needs to link me to a page explaining this SS mastery cause im pretty lost as too where its explained

 

[Top Boy]

Someone needs to link me to a page explaining this SS mastery cause im pretty lost as too where its explained

You don't remember it from the Cell training?

Basically Gohan and Goku spent as much time as possible doing normal people **** and training in Super Saiyan to perfectly attune themselves to the form and remove the penalty of it draining ki.

On the other end, Vegeta and Trunks kept trying to push themselves harder and reached Ascended Saiyan 1 & 2 although both proved useless against Perfect Cell. (Goku achieved those forms too)

The problem with SS2 being incredibly draining and SS3 being a massive drain still exist, and is still a problem.

 

[hyper cutter]

we care about dbz. or yall wouldn't post in a damn dbz thread. just go with it i hope goku grows fruity rat tails and mermaid mullets i don't care give it.

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

Someone needs to link me to a page explaining this SS mastery cause im pretty lost as too where its explained

When Vegeta and them got washed by the Androids, Goku and Vegeta decided that they wanted to "exceed" the Super Saiyan power level.

There were various methods of doing this. There's Super Vegeta, which we'll call  Super Saiyan Second Grade, and what Trunks became, which we'll call Super Saiyan Third Grade.

Both are technically "beyond" Super Saiyan. Second Grade is a relatively successful form, but it's not powerful enough to fight Cell. Third Grade is powerful enough to go toe to toe with Cell, but the muscle mass severely diminishes speed so you can't hit him.

Goku realized that both of these forms were flawed, so he decided to forget about "exceeding" Super Saiyan. He and Gohan resolved to treat regular Super Saiyan as their base state, training, sleeping and eating in it. That way they can unlock massive amounts of power while in regular Super Saiyan mode.

But Gohan transformed into a completely new form against Cell: Super Saiyan 2. This is the true way of "exceeding" Super Saiyan, it's a massive increase in both power and speed. Eventually Goku and Vegeta learned it.

Goku discovered Super Saiyan 3 in the afterlife, but it's such a ridiculously powerful form that it's impractical for battle because it runs out too quickly. Goku didn't realize this because he used it while he was dead and in the afterlife, where exhaustion doesn't really happen. Notice that every time SSJ3 has been used, it didn't work out:

Goku used it against Fat Buu, but in consequence he ate up all of his remaining time in the living world and had to go back to the afterlife. Dude was sweating puddles and breathing heavy even AFTER returning to normal and going back to the temple with everyone else.

Gotenks can only use SSJ3 it for 5 minutes canonically before defusing. Meaning, the regular time limit for Fusion is cut down to 25% of what it's supposed to be.

Goku tried to fight Kid Buu with SSJ3, and thought he could kill him, but he simply couldn't muster up the ki because SSJ3 is way too taxing of a form.

So basically, SSJ3 = mostly useless for most of the plot. SSJ2 is a great form but it doesn't stack up against the later villains.

After Battle Of Gods, Toriyama said that SSJ2 and 3 are too taxing on ki, and he decided that he wants Goku and Vegeta to focus on becoming stronger in SSJ1 from now on. I disagree with this, as SSJ2 was always shown to be sustainable and at least marginally useful, but whatever.

I assume that by "SSJ1" Toriyama now means this new God version of it.

 

[Top Boy]

The way im starting to see it... By the time we see the cast in Resurrection, both Goku and Vegeta are technically always Super Saiyan Gods. That's just their new base form now.

When he powers up to SSGSS I see it kind of like regular Super Saiyan is Tier 1, Form 1 and SS2 Tier 1, Form 2.. SSGSS would be like Tier 2, Form 1.

 

[Gordonson]

When I rewatched as an adult, I enjoyed DB far more than DBZ. Kai might've made dbz better but I haven't checked it out.

All of this.

I LOVE the original Dragonball anime and feel like it was a higher quality work than DBZ. But like you said, I've never given Kai a chance. I doubt it's different enough to change that opinion though.

 

[jays25]

The way im starting to see it... By the time we see the cast in Resurrection, both Goku and Vegeta are technically always Super Saiyan Gods. That's just their new base form now.

When he powers up to SSGSS I see it kind of like regular Super Saiyan is Tier 1, Form 1 and SS2 Tier 1, Form 2.. SSGSS would be like Tier 2, Form 1.

Basically, or nearly as the least, as they were altered by entering SSG to begin with, which left their base states, and all forms before SSG (As seen by SS Goku continuing to have no problem fighting Bills evenly in the last movie, after he'd lost his new transformation) changed forever. This leaves users of SSG in a new state after they've transformed, where their base states are now called Saiyan's Beyond God.

As others have stated, if they're able to go SS in SSG they might as well just use SSGSS2 and SSGSS3. Furthermore I have to agree with KingdomFlatbush in that SS2 now being negated makes fairly little sense, as within the work it was put forth as an upgrade of SS in every single way. Ki loss was never noted to be a major issue, so if anything was going to be mastered it should be that state. SS3 I easily understand as the drawbacks have been noted since the introduction. But in general i'm kind of burnt out on all these new variations and think it'd be better for the series to come to an end.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

I believe this is the part of the Q&A where Akira Toriyama addressed the whole ssj2 and ssj3 thing. In my opinion it still makes perfect. Not that ssj2 was a hard form to maintain but wouldn't ssj1 be infinitely more effortless? So if in ssj state he can reach the upper power levels of ssj2 and even surpass sj3 there's just really no need to use any of the transformation at all. Especially considering this is post god ki absorption.

Q: Goku endlessly keeps getting stronger, with Super Saiyan 3 in the manga and Super Saiyan 4 in the anime; does Super Saiyan keep getting limitlessly stronger too? Might we eventually see things such as a Super Saiyan 5…?

A: Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Also keep in mind that he said "probably" meaning at any point he could completely disregard that statement. Or simply just forget he said it.

 

[goldmember]

 

[abematic]

Look awesome

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

Vegeta flourishes as I predicted

 

[blastercombo]

Is that the whole thing?

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

Nah just a couple of highlights

Animation is clearly superior to BOG and that i appreciate by itself

 

[MVP]

Vegeta flourishes as I predicted

 

[goldmember]

I knew you guys would like that.. Goku playing around it seems and just enjoying it.. No wonder vegeta has to put the hands on him in between his fight with freiza

 

[MVP]

You don't know how long I've waited man...bout to cop the It's over 9000 shirt just for this. My N we made it!!

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

Also, Vegeta finally lost his terrible personality?

Dude wasn't being cocky at all when washing frieza. Kept it cool like his son did.

 

[murkn3m]

View media item 1507358

 

[36 ounces]

Prosper young sayian, prosper

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

If Gohan hair don't turn hot pink or lime green in the next movie I'm done with DBZ

 

[Top Boy]

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

MY MAN VEGETA HAND DELIVERED HIM THE L (LITERALLY) LIKE THAT??? We eatin' now

 

[Undefined]

Ain't watch the video yet but Vegeta flourishing?[emoji]128557[/emoji][emoji]128557[/emoji]