Official 2017 Knicks Offseason thread, Phil Jackson gone

GAIIIGE said:
terrible idea, it's gonna be a repeat of this past season for however many years
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Not really.

Even if Melo agreed to a trade, whoever or whatever pick(s) we got in return would not prevent a repeat of the past season for the most part. Whether Melo is here or not, Phil seems to be going ahead with his unclear rebuilding process.

Besides, Melo's and Phil's contracts both now end at the same time. So if Melo doesn't want to get pushed out by him, he's accomplished that.

What happens next is any body's guess. Could be a continued era of Phil and Melo doesn't get another offer or an insulting one or Dolan steps in after Phil walks to **** things up even more and/or a scenario where Melo doesn't ring chase and signs back here (probably for less) and retires a Knick.


End of the day, this side show drama is gonna be just that. Melo is only getting older and Phil's position is either gonna be solidified or he's gone. It'll only serve back page sensationalist titles from the Post and Daily News. The transition to focus solely on KP and younger players is already underway. That's who is gonna end up feeling the pressure and get that negative NYC spotlight.

Barring any radical game changing free agency signings or trades (which is more likely if Dolan steps back in).
 
nickmaz96 said:
Nope
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I said the same thing at first because Willy is definitely promising. But after giving it more thought I am becoming more open to the idea.

As promising as Willy is and even though his chemistry with Porzingis is great, I have always been and still am skeptical of the potential of a team starting 2 traditional bigs. I think we might be better off trading for an athletic defensive minded combo forward like Harkless to start with Porzingis at center (this would also be very beneficial to Melo if he stays, and I've been saying this for about 3 years now) as opposed to KP at the 4 and Willy at the 5. Then you can draft a PG at 8, and add a shooter like Kernard or Justin Jackson or Donovan Mitchell, or take a flyer on a high ceiling guy like Terrance Ferguson, or even draft another big man to kind of replace Willy like Jarrett Allen with the 15th pick.

Losing Willy would hurt, but a situation like that would certainly make us a more athletic, progressive, exciting, pace and space team than we are now. And if we draft a PG like Dennis Smith Jr with the 8th pick to build around (or any of the PGs we are looking at really), that is certainly the direction you want to be moving forward as opposed to being a slow but talented post team starting Melo (if he stays) at the 3 and KP/Willy at the 4/5.

But, you know, triangle and all. 
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Plus KP isn't a "traditional" big. And that would go down as one of the worst trades we ever did. Harkless is over paid and a bench piece, Willy is underpaid and from what he showed last season he's a starter. And the 15th pick is whatever.
 
donewithjs said:
Plus KP isn't a "traditional" big. And that would go down as one of the worst trades we ever did. Harkless is over paid and a bench piece, Willy is underpaid and from what he showed last season he's a starter. And the 15th pick is whatever.
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donewithjs said:
Plus Harkless would take any cap room we have away. Nah on so many levels.
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$10 mil a year for Harkless in this NBA landscape isnt bad at all. IMO a player like that would go a good deal more than that on the open market this summer. ******* JJ Reddick is asking for $20 mil a season and I would much rather have 24 year old defensive minded Harkless on this team than 32 year old Reddick without even considering the financial ramifications.

For reference, Courtney Lee, who we all claim has a team friendly contract, is much older and more expensive than Harkless is. ANY team in the NBA would take Harkless over Lee if given the opportunity. Portland is just way over budget so its bad for them. We, on the other hand, have a ton of cap room so adding Harkless wouldnt be bad for us whatsoever, plus I really dont care if we have a ton of cap space this summer because I dont want us signing more overpaid vets anyway and getting ourselves into another Noah catastrophe.

Harkless is not an overpaid veteran though. He is 6'9, athletic, a very good defender, and shot above 35% from 3 this season. He was a full time starter on a playoff team in the West, easily good enough to start for us. So I wouldnt exactly call him a "bench piece," a term better suited for Hernangomez who, as promising as he looked, WAS a bench piece on an awful team in the East. Harkless also just turned 24 and is only one year older than Willy despite playing in the NBA longer. He may not be quite as valuable as Willy in a vaccum and he certainly isnt quite as cheap, but he is still a very solid young player who IMO fits what we should be looking to do alot better than Willy. 

No, KP isnt a traditional big but, and ive said this since the day we drafted him, we are not fully utilizing his freakish mismatch potential by playing him at the 4. Sure, KP isnt a big in the traditional sense, and can easily keep up at the 4 while we play Willy at the 5, and he can still space the floor. But just because KP CAN play the 4 doesnt mean we necessarily SHOULD pencil him in at the 4. It's the same exact concept with Melo playing the 4 instead of the 3, which is another reason this trade would make sense for us.

The way we can REALLY be scary is to have KP at the 5, which he is more than capable of as a rim protector and because he is 7 foot ******* 3, and be able to start an incredibly athletic lineup full of shooters 1-5 while still not losing a step on defense because of defensive minded wing players like Harkless and a 7'3 rim protector like KP. In this NBA, that can be killer. Why go for ordinary when you have a chance to be extraordinary?

As far as the 15th pick goes, in addition to grabbing a solid team friendly starter in Harkless; Kernard, Justin Jackson, Donovan Mitchell, Terrance Fergusson, and Jarrett Allen all have higher ceilings than Willy does albeit lower floors. But we are rebuilding and in position to load up on draft picks with the hope that we hit a bulls eye on a few of them as we build from the ground up. Maybe Kernard can turn into a Gordon Hayward type. Or Mitchell turning into an Avery Bradley. Or Jarrett Allen a Myles Turner. I'm not saying it will definitely happen but we are in position to take a chance on something like that as opposed to locking into playing Willy at center and KP at the 4 for the foreseeable future.

Willy isnt exactly a sure thing either, by the way. Sure he looked impressive, but we have seen all the times this past decade a rookie has looked impressive in meaningless games and didnt end up panning out. Maybe Willy can become a bigger version of David Lee, but we cant rule out him becoming another Channing Frye either.

I think that although this trade may be unpopular if it were made because Willy established himself as a promising young piece this season and was one of the few bright spots Knicks fans had, it would actually end up being a very beneficial trade for us in the long run. And if we cant acquire Harkless and the 15th pick without sending Hernangomez to Portland, since they are in such salary cap **** and could use such a cheap promising young player like Willy, I would urge Phil to pull the trigger.
 
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Donovan Mitchell will have a private workout next week

If he's our guy & we trade back to #10 to get more picks/players I'd be 110% okay with that.
 
nickmaz96 said:
Donovan Mitchell will have a private workout next week

If he's our guy & we trade back to #10 to get more picks/players I'd be 110% okay with that.
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I really like Donovan Mitchell. He kind of reminds me of Avery Bradley who is one of my favorite players in the league. So dont take this as me not liking him. But I think it would be a colossal mistake to draft him with Smith Jr., Monk, or Frank on the board, even if we moved back a couple of picks and snagged another late draft pick or something.

All the depth and/or quality role players wont mean **** if we dont have a franchise PG to build around. We are rebuilding and we should look to start that effort with the foundation and then build upon that as we move forward with complimentary players like Donovan Mitchell. We already have one foundational piece in place in KP, which is huge as he looks like he can be a #1 option and franchise center down the road who can do it pretty much all on offense and defense when/if he puts it all together. The next objective should be finding him his running mate with a franchise PG.

The NBA is so PG driven today its almost impossible to be even a playoff caliber team with weak PG play. If you look at the standings you would see a very strong correlation between the caliber of PG play a team has and their record. This has been consistently happening the past couple of seasons. I first really noticed it in 2014 when the "rebuilding" Raptors and Suns were both destroying preseason expectations due to the outstanding play of Kyle Lowry and Goran Dragic.

The PG has the ball in his hands more than ever in the NBA today and a good PG ups the value of everybody else on the court with him. This has been reason #1 why Melo has struggled to win since 2013 when we had the successful 2 PG lineup with not-out-of-shape Felton and Kidd/Prigioni. Compared to other positions, there are very few if any quality PGs who did not make the postseason this year. The only one I can think of would be Kemba Walker. During this entire decade of struggles, the one constant (other than Dolan) has been that our starting PG has basically been a revolving door of either bums or washed up players.

So as much as I do like Donovan Mitchell and think he can have a very successful NBA career as a complimentary player, I think in a year where there are 3 PG prospects who are all extremely young, talented, different, and loaded with potential to become stars in this league, you got to choose who you like the best and take whoever is available. Dont try to get to cute with trades and all that and just take one of those 3 and make him your franchise PG and build around him and KP. Cant go wrong in my eyes if you do that.
 
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No thanks to trading Willy. Plus Harkless is way too inconsistent, i dont think he's a starter on a good team. And they have Nurkic who I think is better than Willy anyway.

If DSJ is off the board at #8, i really dont care who we draft. Even if we reach for Mitchell.
 
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That suggested deal for Harkless is intriguing but I have to lean towards no for it. I think a big with a ton of upside like Hernangomez (who I think will improve as his outside shot gets better) you don't give up on and he's a great value right now.
 
i think Billy can be Al Horford lite if he develops his outside shot a bit more and becomes more assertive
 
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