Official 2016 Boxing Thread: 11/5/2016 - Vargas/Pacquiao Top Rank PPV.

[freakydestroyer]

I saw Kovalev winning but didn't call it a "robbery" initially. Now that I think about it more and more, it was a robbery because the result set Kovalev's career back. With no belts and no big payday, nobody will be willing to fight him. Too much risk too little reward. Even for this fight Kovalev took a smaller payday of 2M, expecting a win will catapult his career.

 

[Kaleo15]

I saw Kovalev winning but didn't call it a "robbery" initially. Now that I think about it more and more, it was a robbery because the result set Kovalev's career back. With no belts and no big payday, nobody will be willing to fight him. Too much risk too little reward. Even for this fight Kovalev took a smaller payday of 2M, expecting a win will catapult his career.

Exactly.

He needs to knock Ward out in the rematch for sure!

 

[illphillip]

So now it's a "robbery" because of all of those peripheral factors?

Not because of the scores or what happened in the ring? Which you said you didn't think was a "robbery"?

You guys are really doing a lot to sell this narrative

I was of the belief that Kovalev had an immediate rematch clause. So the same guy who was willing to fight him before is going to fight him again.

I'm not sure Kovalev had many takers before this fight or that this fight changed any of that.

And the fight should be bigger the 2nd time around.

What other big money fights did he have besides Stevenson who been playing games for years?

 

[mgrand15]

I wouldn't call this a robbery but on my initial watch, I don't see how all three judges saw Ward doing a clean sweep of the 2nd half of the fight. Definitely had momentum but I thought a lot of them were close close. Probably 2-4 or 1-5 at worst.

I think the crowd reactions really swayed the judges. Had to.

The way the refs let them wrestle really played into Wards favor. He kept coming in with his head all the way down and holding. Instead of breaking them up quick or telling Ward to chill, he let them go at it. This wasn't really infighting either.

 

[freakydestroyer]

So now it's a "robbery" because of all of those peripheral factors?

Not because of the scores or what happened in the ring? Which you said you didn't think was a "robbery"?

You guys are really doing a lot to sell this narrative

I was of the belief that Kovalev had an immediate rematch clause. So the same guy who was willing to fight him before is going to fight him again.

I'm not sure Kovalev had many takers before this fight or that this fight changed any of that.

And the fight should be bigger the 2nd time around.

What other big money fights did he have besides Stevenson who been playing games for years?

This isn't a sob story for Kovalev, he and his management should've known this judging scenario going into the fight. But they went with it anyway. I was only pointing out that this result has far more consequences than just a L on record. Right now his best option is to rematch Ward and on Ward's terms again. Whereas if the score cards were flipped last night he'd be P4P king and have the leverage to fight anyone and anywhere.

 

[gunna get it]

Kovalev's only option is Ward regardless.
No one was lining up to fight him with or without the loss.
Adonis Stevenson scared to death.
No need to fight Pascal again.

Ward/Kovalev needed each other and they need to fight each other a minimum of twice, and hope for a third match to maximize pay days

 

[boxer15]

No robbery. If "bias" is the reason I don't see "robbery", then "bias" is probably also the reason you're claiming others are blind for not seeing it.

If you're talking sheer mathematics, then yes, one point would mean everything when all else is equal.

But you guys know how these fights are judged and these rounds are scored when it comes to boxing.

When I say 50/50 fight, I mean I can't say one dude completely dominated the other. Even with one knockdown in the 2nd round of a 12 round fight. Because 11 other rounds tell the story too. And obviously some judges felt Ward won 7 of those.

People seeing razor close rounds differently does not = robbery.

It almost discredits how great/close the fight was and how great both guys fought when that term is used IMO.

I can't give the edge in close rounds to a dude that spends a huge portion of the round in position for a single leg takedown while throwing ugly punches.

What do you mean by how we know how close rounds are scored? That in the states they automatically give it to the American fighter?

You can convince me that a Ward hugfest will ever be a great fight. He's a talented dude for sure, but his type is horrible to watch. Rocnation lined the right pockets last night and won't make the rematch.

 

[illphillip]

No robbery. If "bias" is the reason I don't see "robbery", then "bias" is probably also the reason you're claiming others are blind for not seeing it.

If you're talking sheer mathematics, then yes, one point would mean everything when all else is equal.

But you guys know how these fights are judged and these rounds are scored when it comes to boxing.

When I say 50/50 fight, I mean I can't say one dude completely dominated the other. Even with one knockdown in the 2nd round of a 12 round fight. Because 11 other rounds tell the story too. And obviously some judges felt Ward won 7 of those.

People seeing razor close rounds differently does not = robbery.

It almost discredits how great/close the fight was and how great both guys fought when that term is used IMO.

I can't give the edge in close rounds to a dude that spends a huge portion of the round in position for a single leg takedown while throwing ugly punches.

What do you mean by how we know how close rounds are scored? That in the states they automatically give it to the American fighter?

You can convince me that a Ward hugfest will ever be a great fight. He's a talented dude for sure, but his type is horrible to watch. Rocnation lined the right pockets last night and won't make the rematch.

Where did you see me say this? You might really be seeing things between this and your claim that people are saying Ward offset the knockdown in Rd. 2.

Take a deep breath and look at the words and view them objectively without interjecting whatever conspiracy theories you may have.

You out here talking about "bias" and I'm reading that last paragraph like

I saw a great fight last night. I would have said the same if Kovalev won 114-113.

You can call it what you want and feel about it however you want.

 

[illphillip]

Kovalev's only option is Ward regardless.
No one was lining up to fight him with or without the loss.
Adonis Stevenson scared to death.
No need to fight Pascal again.

Ward/Kovalev needed each other and they need to fight each other a minimum of twice, and hope for a third match to maximize pay days

That's what I'm saying.

I wonder if Kovalev had won if Ward had a rematch clause as well?

 

[kingfoamnyc]

Just got finished watching I have it as a draw. Wouldn't be mad if they ruled it either way. Not a "robbery" at all

Lederman and Lampley had they clown shoes heavy though

 

[Bobby Layne]

No and it's unusual anyways for the challenger to have a rematch clause.

Kov only got 2M compared to Ward's 5 because of Ward's minimum per fight with RN IIRC. the only way RN attracts any talent is vastly overpaying for them. They make Al look like a penny cruncher.

 

[boxer15]

Where did you see me say this? You might really be seeing things between this and your claim that people are saying Ward offset the knockdown in Rd. 2.

Take a deep breath and look at the words and view them objectively without interjecting whatever conspiracy theories you may have.

You out here talking about "bias" and I'm reading that last paragraph like

I saw a great fight last night. I would have said the same if Kovalev won 114-113.

You can call it what you want and feel about it however you want.

You actually said that we all know how rounds are judged and scored in boxing. I'm essentially asking if you are implying that they lean toward the "local" fighter. That's what it sounds like you're saying.

People are trying to say that Ward landed several good left hooks in the second to salvage the round.

 

[yungmatt]

Just got finished watching I have it as a draw. Wouldn't be mad if they ruled it either way. Not a "robbery" at all

Lederman and Lampley had they clown shoes heavy though

So you have kovalev as the winner?

 

[dedafyats]

View media item 2235256

Maybe it wasn't a "robbery", but the judges are definitely WRONG

 

[illphillip]

Where did you see me say this? You might really be seeing things between this and your claim that people are saying Ward offset the knockdown in Rd. 2.

Take a deep breath and look at the words and view them objectively without interjecting whatever conspiracy theories you may have.

You out here talking about "bias" and I'm reading that last paragraph like

I saw a great fight last night. I would have said the same if Kovalev won 114-113.

You can call it what you want and feel about it however you want.

You actually said that we all know how rounds are judged and scored in boxing. I'm essentially asking if you are implying that they lean toward the "local" fighter. That's what it sounds like you're saying.

People are trying to say that Ward landed several good left hooks in the second to salvage the round.

That's not what I'm saying.

Judges are human beings. Everything is subject to interpretation.

One man may say.....Kovalev landed 10 more punches, so he won the fight.

Another might say he landed 10 more.....while throwing 100+ more. So he whiffed.

Look, my only issue here is with the term "robbery". Like I said, it discredits any otherwise great fight IMO.

Who won is absolutely subject to interpretation. The fight was THAT close.

Because these guys delivered exactly what we hoped/expected them to.

A KO puncher who dropped his opponent, but didn't finish him. And a more strategic fighter who would do what he need to, while maybe not being crowd pleasing, to "win".

I am not AT ALL subscribing to the belief that the judges scored it for the "American" or that they should have scored it for the "Champion".

 

[Bobby Layne]

 Robert Byrd ‏@RobertByrdRef  2h2 hours ago

@sandersd79 @steveucnlive If the judges didn't screw up u would never have mentioned the Referee I did my best

Even the ref thought Kov got robbed 

 

[krispacinla]

Just got finished watching I have it as a draw. Wouldn't be mad if they ruled it either way. Not a "robbery" at all

Lederman and Lampley had they clown shoes heavy though

Yeah Lampley was salivating over Kova. Lederman was way off with the scoring hahahahaha

 

[Nipsey3000]

After rewatching it on mute
R1 Kovalev
R2 Kovalev
R3 Kovalev
R4 Kovalev
R5 Ward
R6 Kovalev
R7 Ward
R8 Ward
R9 Ward
R10 Kovalev
R11 Ward
R12 Ward
114-113 Kovalev rd 2 was the game changer

almost exactly how i saw it. i gave ward one more of those middle rounds, and gave kovalev the last round

i have biased friends that gave 4 of the first 6 rounds to ward. and had the fight 116-111 for ward.

i'm like...what fight were you watching?

 

[blackcease]

Chocolatito is impressive, but I really don't know how good those fighters he's beating are. I would like to see him fight Rigondeaux or someone with a name to really solidify his spot above Ward. Until then, Ward should be ranked higher.

Agreed, I need to see Roman fight a name first, Rigondeaux would be perfect. I don't think he wins that one.

Because Rigo is two whole weight classes above him.  He's already fighting at a weight class above his natural one at 115.  He shouldn't have to solidify his status by jumping another two. 

JFE's not a name?  He's the best fighter MX has to offer unless you believe the hype about the protected red head. 

Fair enough. I keep thinking Rigo is 118 for some reason. Still tho, if they met in the middle at 118 I'd like to see it. 5'4" 68" reach vs. 5'3' 64" reach.

If not Rigo then Inoue then.

As far as his record I'm not gonna pretend like I keep up with the little guys as much as the other weight classes, I don't. Maybe you can hip me. But the combo of HBO making it a point to showcase him as a #1 p4p guy, but then seeing he recently fought a 37 year old (Leon) with a 38-33-3 record, that's been knocked out 19 times!? Another 37 year old in Sosa with 10 losses and 3 KO's? Brian Viloria who's a name but also mid 30's and probably past his prime. Arroyo fight was cool, shoe thing was weird but Roman probably had that regardless. Cuadras fight was cool. He also fought a string of what looks like mainly bums between beating JFE and fighting for the flyweight title?

I dunno, like I said I'm not the expert on strength of schedule when it comes to the super small guys, but I'm always suspicious when a network gives a heavy push but has a guy fighting dudes outside the top 10, old heads with names, etc. I know he's nice just not sure exactly how nice.

 

[blackcease]

Kovalev's only option is Ward regardless.
No one was lining up to fight him with or without the loss.
Adonis Stevenson scared to death.
No need to fight Pascal again.

Ward/Kovalev needed each other and they need to fight each other a minimum of twice, and hope for a third match to maximize pay days

Yup. Regardless of what people think about the scoring, hopefully the PPV did numbers and they decide to run it back. I'd watch for sure.

 

[freakydestroyer]

I think the ref was fair overall during the fight but when I saw his reaction once the winner was announced I would've thought he was Ward's father.

 

[freakydestroyer]

I am not sure if this is real or not but anyway

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Alriiight....
So After rewatching this sober and in all my senses with no audio. I scored it 115-112 Krusher.
Thought it was close but yeah, Kovalev did his thing.
Hopefully we get a rematch.

 

[monstar]

Ward was a lil ***** for duckin his head in kovelevs armpits.

I hope he Tasted sweat from that.

Wards clinchin was annoying.

Yea crazy what these refs let ward get away with, yesterday and his entire career.

He tore up Kessler's face with all those bhop headbutts
What a fraud

Y'all both delusional. Ward wasn't trying to clinch he was trying to step inside kovalev sweet spot at range. Ward proved he was the better in fighter all night but kovalev was man handling him on the inside.

Neither of u clearly have ever boxed before.

Ward was trying to close the gap and kovalev being the vet he is stopped it by willing holding a headlock. It hurt him later tho leaving his rib cage exposed all night.

Im really interested to see the judges scorecards to see what they saw round by round

 

[degenerate423]

Because Rigo is two whole weight classes above him.  He's already fighting at a weight class above his natural one at 115.  He shouldn't have to solidify his status by jumping another two.