Official 2013 NBA Offseason Thread

[iamjusayn]

Is this a true story?

View media item 490415

Lol! Yes it's true!

I remember this

Lol @ ruining his career. Mike used to toy with cats like they were kids.

Man those days are missed.

 

[mister friendly]

i understand what you are saying. i just have a hard time buying someone that swears up and down about a players ranking at a certain tier among the all time greats that one did not see with their 2 eyes.

ex: i never saw magic johnson play ball. all i have is old videos, stats, and the word of people that actually watched him play. those people have more ground as to where he stands amongst the all time greats. i am in no position to say he should be ranked here nor there. magic was of the greats but me trying to put him in a certain position holds no ground since i did not watch him play.

hope this makes sense.

Sorry, but it doesn't make sense.

This is why people do research, doing your due diligence. To be fair, everything should be broke down to era, and Kobe is indeed top five in his era. However, when you look at the overall contributions to the game, and then how the game was forcibly changed by people like Wilt and Kareem, and even Oscar, to suggest that Kobe should supplant these guys as players, is downright ludicrous.

How did Kobe Bryant change the game of basketball?

How did Oscar and Kareem forcibly change the game?

 

[CP1708]

Wilt
Russell
Jerry West
Elgin Baylor
Bob Pettit
Dave Debusschere
John Havlichek
Hal Greer
Willis Reed
Nate Thurmond
Jerry Lucas
Oscar Robertson



and I'm sure theres plenty I dont know about that are from the 60s

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

Russell shot 45 pct because they could hard foul all the time, which drove down shooting percentages. Go read a history book or watch old NBA films

Also the league wasnt watered down in the Russells era

if that's the case he should have never been able to shoot 70% in a finals series. don't know why he or anyone else gets a pass for shooting in the low 40s especially when you always hear about how today's players supposedly can't shoot

 

[pmatic]

I'm curious to know how old some of you are and how much footage you've seen of past players.

 

[antidope]

This is why we cant have nice things

 

[sohoguy]

How Dr. J isnt in anyones top 5 makes me . Dude was Jordan before Jordan. In no particular order......

Magic
Jordan
Dr. J
Russell
Kareem/Wilt

Lol how does one simply leave Oscar out?

 

[iamjusayn]

Are you joking? Seriously, stop playing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Robertson


And for Kareem, he was the reason they stopped dunking in College for a while.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kareem_Abdul-Jabbar

Good post

Lol @ the ownage brought from it too!

 

[don ramon]

handsbro to the raptors. wow

 

[marath0n]

people talk so much **** about dwight's offense and how he doesn't belong with the all time greats but bill russell never even shot 45% in a watered down league

I dont recall anyone every crediting Russell for being a great offensive player.  But his accomplishments are what they are, watered down or not, he succeeded against the competition placed in front of him.  Won as a player, and was hand picked by Red Auerbach to succeed him as a player/coach.  Won 11 rings, and is one of the greatest to play the game.

"Watered down or not"
No, you can't look past the competition and the fact that there were 10 teams.

Russell shot 45 pct because they could hard foul all the time, which drove down shooting percentages. Go read a history book or watch old NBA films

Also the league wasnt watered down in the Russells era

It was absolutely watered down. How are you going to have a second job and still work on your game and your body, shoot 1000 shots etc?

Wilt
Russell
Jerry West
Elgin Baylor
Bob Pettit
Dave Debusschere
John Havlichek
Hal Greer
Willis Reed
Nate Thurmond
Jerry Lucas
Oscar Robertson



and I'm sure theres plenty I dont know about that are from the 60s

 

[Coupé It]

Allen Iverson is best basketball player of all time.

 

[shox23]

handsbro to the raptors. wow

They agreed a few days ago

 

[mister friendly]

How did Oscar and Kareem forcibly change the game?

Are you joking? Seriously, stop playing.

Legacy[edit]

From a historical perspective, however, Robertson's most important contribution was made not on the court, but rather in court. It was the year of the landmark Oscar Robertson suit, an antitrust suit filed by the NBA's Players Association against the league. As Robertson was the president of the Players Association, the case bore his name. In this suit, the proposed ABA-NBA merger between the NBA and the American Basketball Association was delayed until 1976, and the college draft as well as the free agency clauses were reformed.[3] Robertson himself stated that the main reason was that clubs basically owned their players: players were forbidden to talk to other clubs once their contract was up, because free agency did not exist back then.[12] Six years after the suit was filed, the NBA finally reached a settlement, the ABA-NBA merger took place, and the Oscar Robertson suit encouraged signing of more free agents and eventually led to higher salaries for all players.[3]

Robertson is regarded as one of the greatest players in NBA history, a triple threat who could score inside, outside and also was a stellar playmaker. His rookie scoring average of 30.5 points per game is the third highest of any rookie in NBA history, and Robertson averaged more than 30 points per game in six of his first seven seasons.[1] Only two other players in the NBA have had more 30+ point per game seasons in their career. Robertson was the first player to average more than 10 assists per game, doing so at a time when the criteria for assists were more stringent than today.[3] Furthermore, Robertson is the only guard in NBA history to ever average more than 10 rebounds per game, doing so three times. In addition to his 1964 regular season MVP award, Robertson won three All-Star Game MVPs in his career (in 1961, 1964, and 1969). He has the all-time highest scoring average in the All-Star Game for players participating in four or more games (the league standard for the record) at 20.5 points per game. He ended his career with 26,710 points (25.7 per game, ninth-highest all time), 9,887 assists (9.5 per game) and 7,804 rebounds (7.5 per game).[1] He led the league in assists six times, and at the time of his retirement, he was the NBA's all-time leader in career assists and free throws made, and was the second all-time leading scorer behind Wilt Chamberlain.[3]
Robertson also set yardsticks in versatility. If his first five NBA seasons are strung together, Robertson averaged a triple-double over those, averaging 30.3 points, 10.4 rebounds and 10.6 assists.[17] For his career, Robertson had 181 triple-doubles, a record that has never been approached.[18] These numbers are even more astonishing if it is taken into account that the three-point shot did not exist when he played, which was introduced by the NBA in the 1979–80 season and benefits sharpshooting backcourt players. In 1967–68, Robertson also became the first of only two players in NBA history to lead the league in both scoring average and assists per game in the same season (also achieved by Nate Archibald). The official scoring and assist titles went to other players that season, however, because the NBA based the titles on point and assist totals (not averages) prior to the 1969–70 season. Robertson did, however, win a total of six NBA assist titles during his career. For his career, Robertson shot a high .485 field goal average and led the league in free-throw percentage twice—in the 1963–64 and 1967–68 seasons.[1]
Robertson is recognized by the NBA as the first legitimate "big guard", paving the way for other over-sized backcourt players like Magic Johnson.[3] Furthermore, he is also credited to have invented the head fake and the fadeaway jump shot, a shot which Michael Jordan later became famous for.[19] For the Cincinnati Royals, now relocated and named the Sacramento Kings, he scored 22,009 points and 7,731 assists, and is all-time leader in both statistics for the combined Royals/Kings teams.[3]
Robertson was enshrined in the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame on April 28, 1980. He received the "Player of the Century" award by the National Association of Basketball Coaches in 2000 and was ranked third on SLAM Magazine's Top 75 NBA Players in 2003, behind fellow NBA legends Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain. Furthermore, in 2006, ESPN named Robertson the second greatest point guard of all time, praising him as the best post-up guard of all time and placing him only behind Los Angeles Lakers legend Magic Johnson.[17]
In 1959, the Player of the Year Award was established to recognize the best college basketball player of the year by the United States Basketball Writers Association. Five nominees are presented and the individual with the most votes receives the award during the NCAA Final Four. In 1998, it was renamed the Oscar Robertson Trophy in honor of the player who won the first two awards because of his outstanding career and his continuing efforts to promote the game of basketball. In 2004, an 18" bronze statue of Robertson was sculpted by world-renowned sculptor Harry Weber.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Robertson


And for Kareem, he was the reason they stopped dunking in College for a while.

The dunk was banned in college basketball after the 1967 season, primarily because of Alcindor's dominant use of the shot.[14][16] It was not allowed again until 1976.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kareem_Abdul-Jabbar

The free agency thing is nice but it's not on the court, if we want to bring up off the court stuff then Curt Flood is an all time great Baseball player

 

[lawdog1]

I feel what you're saying but if you go back through the pages there's a lot of salt with no support regarding our squad.

Regardless, the west this year is going to be another dogfight. Can't wait

I don't think it's so much Clippers hate as Blake hate. For a lot of people on this board Griffin has gone from a phenom to a borderline scrub in the space of 3 years. They just can't bring themselves to believe we can be a contender with him as one of our 2 best players. A lot of the other hate comes from Lakers fans who are still salty about "basketball reasons."

 

[sb]

i understand what you are saying. i just have a hard time buying someone that swears up and down about a players ranking at a certain tier among the all time greats that one did not see with their 2 eyes.

ex: i never saw magic johnson play ball. all i have is old videos, stats, and the word of people that actually watched him play. those people have more ground as to where he stands amongst the all time greats. i am in no position to say he should be ranked here nor there. magic was of the greats but me trying to put him in a certain position holds no ground since i did not watch him play.

hope this makes sense.

Sorry, but it doesn't make sense.

This is why people do research, doing your due diligence. To be fair, everything should be broke down to era, and Kobe is indeed top five in his era. However, when you look at the overall contributions to the game, and then how the game was forcibly changed by people like Wilt and Kareem, and even Oscar, to suggest that Kobe should supplant these guys as players, is downright ludicrous.

How did Kobe Bryant change the game of basketball?

one can do all the research they want. if one did not watch the players career, how much does that hold? one can read all the books and know all the stats but if ones eyes did not watch that a certain era or player how much weight does that hold? i didnt know that kobe or anyone for that matter, had to change basketball in order to be considered great. to each his own though.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

this isn't a watered down era? these are lebrons and vince carters he is swatting left and right? look how weak they are attacking the basket, most of them probably can't even get rim. nowadays you have fringe players like josh mcroberts throwing down 360 eastbays. also wilt shot 10% better from the field and they were basically the same era so no excuse. all I'm saying is that he might be a lil overrated, especially when people act like dwight is so inferior to him

 

[bhzmafia14]

I wish the Heat can amnesty Mike Miller so he can come back to Memphis. Guy got a multi million dollar home just sitting here

 

[marath0n]

I feel what you're saying but if you go back through the pages there's a lot of salt with no support regarding our squad.

Regardless, the west this year is going to be another dogfight. Can't wait

I don't think it's so much Clippers hate as Blake hate. For a lot of people on this board Griffin has gone from a phenom to a borderline scrub in the space of 3 years. They just can't bring themselves to believe we can be a contender with him as one of our 2 best players. A lot of the other hate comes from Lakers fans who are still salty about "basketball reasons."

I feel you on that. I hate Blake sometimes also, a lot of sale comes from the fans of bad teams that we used to resemble.

this isn't a watered down era? these are lebrons and vince carters he is swatting left and right? look how weak they are attacking the basket, most of them probably can't even get rim. nowadays you have fringe players like josh mcroberts throwing down 360 eastbays. also wilt shot 10% better from the field and they were basically the same era so no excuse. all I'm saying is that he might be a lil overrated, especially when people act like dwight is so inferior to him

Amen. Dwight would've feasted in the 60's c'mon now.

"Watered down or not"
No, you can't look past the competition and the fact that there were 10 teams.
It was absolutely watered down. How are you going to have a second job and still work on your game and your body, shoot 1000 shots

Do you feel the same way about Baseball?

Ted Williams had another job as well.

Did he play in a watered down league?

I do not feel the same way about baseball. The fact that you had to change sports speaks to my point. Basketball is a completely different animal than baseball. Similar to golf you can compare players more linearly across different eras with baseball. It's because of how much pure physicality and athleticism contribute to basketball vs baseball.

 

[sb]

one can do all the research they want. if one did not watch the players career, how much does that hold? one can read all the books and know all the stats but if ones eyes did not watch that a certain era or player how much weight does that hold? i didnt know that kobe or anyone for that matter, had to change basketball in order to be considered great. to each his own though.

Perhaps your standards of an all time great, are simply not high enough then.

Out of the all time top five posts, each one of these players changed the game.

Wilt
Russell
Oscar
Kareem
Jordan

So Kobe should now be argued as being better than Oscar, because he can use a crossover while on nationwide television?

Really?

Y'all need to stop playin'!

i never said kobe was top 5. my post was how sometimes a person wants to rank a player they never saw at a certain spot. nothing more nothing less.

 

[reggiekiller]

All time greats have an effect both on, and then off the court.

Bill Russell is the first African American coach, and then first in any professional sport to win a championship.

Along with his rings, he is an all time great that deserves his ranking on any list.

Not only that, he changed the game in regard to how it was being played on the defensive end both in college, and then in the pro's.

If he is supposed to be supplanted by Kobe on anyone's list, what has Kobe ever done to change the game?

Russ has more rings, changed the game even on the sidelines.

What has Kobe done to take this persons place?

You'll either get a bunch of rolling emoticons or no response to this extremely logical post.

Also, if the criteria for "watered down" is that the player posed a gross mismatch to the competition, then Shaq and Lebron wont touch the list. Wilt either

 

[victor page]

Why is Billups going back to Detroit?

I don't get it.

 

[awwsome]

Why is Billups going back to Detroit?

I don't get it.

Get a head start on being an assistant

Y'all ****** talking out y'all *** when there is no free agency moves or games on, Jesus.

 

[shannonscrooks]

Thread blows again and its only July 11th. Wake me up when the season starts.

 

[marath0n]

I do not feel the same way about baseball. The fact that you had to change sports speaks to my point. Basketball is a completely different animal than baseball. Similar to golf you can compare players more linearly across different eras with baseball. It's because of how much pure physicality and athleticism contribute to basketball vs baseball.

No, it does not.

You are the one who brought up era, and how they were supposedly watered down due to players having careers outside of their respective playing careers.

Most of the athletes in those era's, were drafted or recruited to play in two sports, or even three sports.

Jackie Robinson, ever heard of him?

How about Jim Brown? Look up his hoops career while in high school and college.

Bo Jackson, how many hoops players were as good of an athlete as he was?

Great athletes are simply great athletes.

I'm saying the era of NBA basketball that Bill Russell played in with 10 teams full of players that didn't have basketball as a primary focus is watered down compared to an era of 30 teams who have devoted their lives to basketball from aau to college to the league. Because of that, I feel comfortable saying that Kobe is right up there in the upper echelon with Russ.

All time greats have an effect both on, and then off the court.

Bill Russell is the first African American coach, and then first in any professional sport to win a championship.

Along with his rings, he is an all time great that deserves his ranking on any list.

Not only that, he changed the game in regard to how it was being played on the defensive end both in college, and then in the pro's.

If he is supposed to be supplanted by Kobe on anyone's list, what has Kobe ever done to change the game?

Russ has more rings, changed the game even on the sidelines.

What has Kobe done to take this persons place?

You'll either get a bunch of rolling emoticons or no response to this extremely logical post.

Also, if the criteria for "watered down" is that the player posed a gross mismatch to the competition, then Shaq and Lebron wont touch the list. Wilt either

That isn't the criteria for watered down.

 

[100027]

You know what's not fun to talk about? Kobe and your personal love for Kobe.

Lots actually going on to discuss.