Niketalk....Do you pray? VOL....AMEN.

[deleted]

Let me clarify. Objective morality comes from God. Every time we argue over right and wrong, we appeal to a higher law that we assume everyone is aware of, holds to, and is not free to arbitrarily change. Right and wrong imply a higher standard or law, and law requires a lawgiver. Because the Moral Law transcends humanity, this universal law requires a universal lawgiver. Subjective morality causes chaos.

So are the morals you hold good because God commands them?

Or does God command them because they are good?

 

[Master Zik]

 

[hot route]

any body got info on the pontius pilot spear, the shroud, the eucharist? thats more intetesting. stuff like benny hinn too looks so powerful.

also, the diablo town in mexico n how they really reinact the crucifixtion.

guys here always trynna twist n get into debates but wont fuel new topics.

 

[girlthatsblanco]

So are the morals you hold good because God commands them?

Or does God command them because they are good?

Great question. I'm not 100% sure. I imagine it would be both.

 

[halftime]

5x a day

Prayer only works if you're motivated to go out and do what it is you want to do, can't be a religious shut in

 

[girlthatsblanco]

any body got info on the pontius pilot spear, the shroud, the eucharist? thats more intetesting. stuff like benny hinn too looks so powerful.

also, the diablo town in mexico n how they really reinact the crucifixtion.

guys here always trynna twist n get into debates but wont fuel new topics.

I'm familiar with the eucharist and Benny Hinn. Shed some light on that spear and Diablo town.

 

[warrior on it]

I can't agree with Hell being the destination for someone who has never been preached Jesus. If there was scriptural support, yes. If they were sent a minister, like Peter and Cornelius, and they rejected it, yes. Otherwise if they had no idea who Jesus is then I can't agree.

What inclines me to believe is my own evidence that was given to me. Evidence is available if you look for it.  I grew up with apostolic parents who taught my sister and I the bible and all but it really takes a one on one experience with God for it to really stick.

I see. But I'm talking about decent (good) people, not just those who haven't heard of Jesus. I'm talking about kind hearted, genuine and loving people who don't necessarily believe in jesus as their savior. Aren't they doomed to hell per the Bible's teachings?

Also, you just admitted that it was taught to you by your parents. Which means it indoctrinated. If you don't mind, what kind of evidence were u shown? I've been looking for evidence for 15years. Is this evidence of yours based on faith/supernatural?

 

[Belgium]

Without the Word of God, my morality is subjective.....just like anyone else. I think history shows that is dangerous.

And yet religion has played a primary role in countless atrocities in history. Or did you forget about the crusades?
Organized religion has always been a plague.

 

[sea manup]

I think he's referring to the commandments and similar passages regarding worshipping "false/idol" gods. Along with the fact that you're not eligible for heaven if you don't believe/accept Jesus as your savior. Those sentiments leave a possibly-decent person with Hell as their destination.


Also, many of the atheist would believe in god(s) if there was ever evidence- base, peer reviewable, sound/logical, irrefutable proof.


Having faith dismisses those notions, though . Because faith isn't based on rationality, logic and the likewise. Which makes faith a crutch for reality because you can have all the faith you desire, but it doesn't make things true/real.



For those that believe in the bible, what inclines you to do so?


For many, maybe even the majority,they just believe it because a figure with authority taught them as a child or during times of devastation/vulnerability.(children,druggies, traumatic victims)

I can't agree with Hell being the destination for someone who has never been preached Jesus. If there was scriptural support, yes. If they were sent a minister, like Peter and Cornelius, and they rejected it, yes. Otherwise if they had no idea who Jesus is then I can't agree.

What inclines me to believe is my own evidence that was given to me. Evidence is available if you look for it.  I grew up with apostolic parents who taught my sister and I the bible and all but it really takes a one on one experience with God for it to really stick.

If this is the case then why are Christians so active in telling people about Jesus and forcing them to change their culture or suffer in hell?

Wouldn't these people be better off not knowing about Jesus?

 

[girlthatsblanco]

And yet religion has played a primary role in countless atrocities in history. Or did you forget about the crusades?
Organized religion has always been a plague.

I already mentioned this before in this thread, but the Crusades were unbiblical. Not everyone who says they areca Christian is actually a Christian. Many people throughout history have abused, misused, and blasphemed the name of Jesus Christ for their own selfish desires. As a matter of fact, Jesus spoke out against religion.....he's calling for a relationship.

 

[halftime]

Misinterpretation of organized religion is what you can attribute historical atrocities to.

 

[retro23j]

I see. But I'm talking about decent (good) people, not just those who haven't heard of Jesus. I'm talking about kind hearted, genuine and loving people who don't necessarily believe in jesus as their savior. Aren't they doomed to hell per the Bible's teachings?

Also, you just admitted that it was taught to you by your parents. Which means it indoctrinated. If you don't mind, what kind of evidence were u shown? I've been looking for evidence for 15years. Is this evidence of yours based on faith/supernatural?

I see what you're saying. All I can say is that according to the bible, if their name isn't written in the lambs book of life, they won't be in heaven. If their name is there, perfect. If not, eh.

I can share an experience you can even try for yourself. The very evidence the bible tells you to look for in The Gospel is the evidence of the in filling of the Holy Ghost, speaking fluently in an unlearned language as the spirit of God gives utterance. I've seen it countless times at church but it's something you have to experience for yourself and you can.

The New Testament tells you exactly what evidence to look for. It'll say something like, "if you...then this will happen." You have to try God the way His Word says to but belief is critical.

A specific experience to me from earlier this year was at a morning prayer with some folks. We were all in different spots in a room praying when I asked a question in my mind. Someone a few feet away sat up, spoke the answer and laid right back down. Messed me all the way up.

 

[sea manup]

 
Misinterpretation of organized religion is what you can attribute historical atrocities to.

what if they were right and you are interpreting it wrong? 

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Christians don't know if Parables were real or fake. No consensus

 

[retro23j]

If this is the case then why are Christians so active in telling people about Jesus and forcing them to change their culture or suffer in hell?

Wouldn't these people be better off not knowing about Jesus?

We're active because the Gospel is the good news and we're instructed to share it. The only people better off not knowing are the ones who once believed but turned away.

 

[halftime]

 
what if they were right and you are interpreting it wrong? 

Won't know till it's over.

 

[Master Zik]

And yet religion has played a primary role in countless atrocities in history. Or did you forget about the crusades?
Organized religion has always been a plague.

I already mentioned this before in this thread, but the Crusades were unbiblical. Not everyone who says they areca Christian is actually a Christian. Many people throughout history have abused, misused, and blasphemed the name of Jesus Christ for their own selfish desires. As a matter of fact, Jesus spoke out against religion.....he's calling for a relationship.

If you go by this reasoning for who is a Christian and who isn't then nobody is Christian and we just got a bunch of ppl false claiming a group.

 

[sea manup]

 

If this is the case then why are Christians so active in telling people about Jesus and forcing them to change their culture or suffer in hell?

Wouldn't these people be better off not knowing about Jesus?

We're active because the Gospel is the good news and we're instructed to share it. The only people better off not knowing are the ones who once believed but turned away.

explain to me why "you have to love this guy and follow his rules or else you will burn in hell if you die" is considered good news to anyone?

 

[halftime]

 
This is what Christians say when there is something sanctioned by the bible that doesn't align with the socio-political climate of the time. Whenever people bring up the blatant violence, genocide, war mongering, homophobia, misogyny in the bible....it is a misinterpretation or "parables" or metaphors....GTHOOHWTBS

 

I can't speak on Christians or the Bible

Only time you should be violent in Islam is when you're defending yourself, family or your right to be a Muslim, any other form of violence is not permissible (Things that ISIS or other terrorist groups are doing, etc.)

Will definitely give you homophobia

Islam and it's views are clearly not modern or built for this society, but people shouldn't be going around and killing others cause they don't believe in it.

 

[retro23j]

Yea this instruction to share it was the driving force for the slaughter and enslavement of many Natives....congratulations bruh. 


Dudes were chillin, happy worshipping their own Gods, being one with Nature and animals n ****....then some white dudes came along and threw bibles, whips and small pox blankets at them and changed their names from Kunta to John Jackson.

How was it the driving force when the Gospel speaks against the discrimination of race?

I don't mind this discussion, I know your stance and respect it but I do mind you typing out just anything when I know you're more educated than what you just said.

 

[jones23me]

I pray, but I also believe that our story is written in some sense of the word. I also believe that all things happen for a reason.(i.e death, failures etc...) sometimes its for the better, being it effects everyone differently. often lights a fire under some to change their ways and become a better person once realizing LIFE isn't as long as they once thought... I dont believe in accidents and coincidences so to speak.

Also, going to church everyday and reading your bible everyday doesn't make you better than the next. I would go as far as to say its more so about the relation you keep with God/or your higher power. because its people that live in the church and the bible and they live their lives outside of church as if they did none of those things.

 

[retro23j]

explain to me why "you have to love this guy and follow his rules or else you will burn in hell if you die" is considered good news to anyone?

"Good news, God saw that you were in sin, paid it's price for you, fulfilled the law Himself that He gave you and now here's how you can avoid eternal torment,"

 

[halftime]

 
One in the same man, one in the same....Allah sanctioned violence MULTIPLE times in the Koran. They consider being anything BUT Muslim as a violation of your right to be Muslim. The peaceful passages in the Koran are kindness toward OTHER MUSLIMS. Pagans and infidels are fair game in the Koran. 

What seems to be sanctioned violence is only in self defense or protecting your right to practice.  Quran is usually confusing for some, so it's important to know the context of what was said, instead of reading one small portion and being quick to judge off that.  I'll agree to disagree with you overall, but I'll just leave you with these. 

"Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors." (2:190)

"Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly." (60:

 

[3am scholar]

The first Crusade began in 1095. 460 years after the first Christian city was overrun by Muslim armies. 457 years after Jerusalem was conquered by Muslim armies. 453 years after Egypt was taken by Muslim armies. 443 years after Muslims first plundered Italy. 427 years after Muslim armies first laid siege to the Christian capital of Constantinople. 380 years after Spain was conquered by Muslim armies. 363 years after France was first attacked by Muslim armies. 249 years after the capital of the Christian world, Rome itself, was sacked by a Muslim army, and only after centuries of church burnings, killings, enslavement and forced conversions of Christians. By the time the Crusades finally began Muslim armies had conquered two-thirds of the Christian world.

View media item 1951375

Pic related.

 

[retro23j]

To be technical, which I was trying to avoid but w/e, the word "race" didn't exist in the bible so I should have said ethnicity. Maybe even nationality. But saying race itself didn't exist is deceiving.
Even still, discrimination and prejudice is present in the bible with the Samaritans who were considered mongrels, Nathaniel and his feelings towards Nazareth, Egyptians and shepherds, etc. It was spoken against with Peter and the Italian, later with Paul and then again with circumcision technicalities which was used before Christ to distinguish one group from another.