Niketalk....Do you pray? VOL....AMEN.

[DCAllAfrican]

You're a man....or woman. I don't know you. But do you believe the things you write? If so, ehat makes you so trustworthy? And if your argument is that the Bible can't be true because it was written by men, then you have a problem with everything ever written.

The point is any historical document is in question because people have agendas.

We look at the legitimacy of History books, I hope you do. 

But you don't look at the legitimacy of The Bible?

Why not? Because a man (men) told you that you shouldn't?

I don't think you realize you are trusting MAN's word more than you are trusting "God's" word

 

[deleted]

No, because God teaches it is wrong to kill. He sets the standard of morality. Abraham never killed Isaac. It was only a test of his faith. God on the other hand is the creator of life, so if he created it that assumes he can take it away.

That's not the point

You admitted yourself that you would have a difficult time following God's commands, but isn't his word supposed to be absolute?

So what reason would you have for doubting him unless you felt that he was wrong or that what he was commanding was wrong?

Isn't it just easier to acknowledge that people can be moral without God's intervention?

 

[girlthatsblanco]

The point is any historical document is in question because people have agendas.

We look at the legitimacy of History books, I hope you do. 

But you don't look at the legitimacy of The Bible?

Why not? Because a man (men) told you that you shouldn't?

I don't think you realize you are trusting MAN's word more than you are trusting "God's" word

You're assuming and you're assumptions are wrong. I haven't always been a Christian.

 

[Master Zik]

I'd consider it if it was actual evidence.

My mind isn't closed to the possibility of a higher power in general. I just currently have no reason to actively believe one or more exists.

Gotcha. To me, man's very existence is enough evidence to raise the question about God.

Yeah I can't rock with that. It's that whole clock maker's watch fallacy or simple believing the GODs above are punishing us when they make it rain a lot or don't rain at all. Intelligent design a.k.a. creationism is just really flawed and at best it's just a layman's theory to consider. Not anything with any support behind it other than saying look around.

I look at where the Earth is now and where other planets are (keeping how little we actually know) and don't think we're special for existing necessarily.

Humans in general are full of personality and obsessed with purpose, meaning, and morals.

That's just due tot he development of our brains and sophistication of our consciousness which has yet to get deeper examination and research.

The obsessions are just ego.

Morals are just a set of conditions we put in place and prop up under the guise of being civilized based on survival.

Why do you think we are here on earth?

I dunno. I don't know there even is a why. May be no meaning to our existence on the planet.

I don't know why that is such a hard possibility for many to accept.

What do you think is our purpose?

I think our purpose is what we decide it to be. Not really buying in to some absolute purpose humanity has. We give our lives purpose by what we do while alive.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

You're assuming and you're assumptions are wrong. I haven't always been a Christian.

You aren't reading.

No matter HOW long you have been a Christian, MAN convinced you that The Bible is the Word of God. 

And again, men's credibility has been in question in every other history book written.

Why not this one. Why do you so blindly believe the Aesops in this book?

Let me guess, faith right?

 

[girlthatsblanco]

That's not the point

You admitted yourself that you would have a difficult time following God's commands, but isn't his word supposed to be absolute?

So what reason would you have for doubting him unless you felt that he was wrong or that what he was commanding was wrong?

Isn't it just easier to acknowledge that people can be moral without God's intervention?

The Bible is full of people who disobeyed God. I'm no different.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Isn't it just easier to acknowledge that people can be moral without God's intervention?

That would go against their script.

 

[deleted]

The Bible is full of people who disobeyed God. I'm no different.

Is this to say that even though you are a man of faith, your sense of morality is flawed?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Well God's very existence is proof that he himself must have a God.

Who created God, things don't just exist without a creator right?

He said God always existed. So nothing created God.

Street Fighter Alpha and Omega

 

[girlthatsblanco]

You aren't reading.

No matter HOW long you have been a Christian, MAN convinced you that The Bible is the Word of God. 

And again, men's credibility has been in question in every other history book written.

Why not this one. Why do you so blindly believe the Aesops in this book?

Let me guess, faith right?

I made the decision to believe that the Bible is true. The men who wrote the Bible tell you that they wrote it. So they didn’t convince me, but even if that was the case are you saying something can't be true if someone else convinces you?
I don't blindly follow the Bible. I examine the text and evidence surrounding it and come to a conclusion that makes me believe.
I don't see any issue with questioning the Bible especially if someone is going to rest their entire life on its words.

 

[Master Zik]

So where did the creator cone from?

The Bible teaches God is eternal and has always existed. That's what I believe as well.

You just said nothing can't create something yet GOD is eternal and was always here.

So why can't it simply be the universe and everything within it (those things having to potential to create life on their own) simply always existed and is eternal?

I mean science does state energy can't be destroyed only transformed in to something else.

The bible was written by men. Men lie.

You're a man....or woman. I don't know you. But do you believe the things you write? If so, ehat makes you so trustworthy? And if your argument is that the Bible can't be true because it was written by men, then you have a problem with everything ever written.

I don't see the problem here.

Always be vigilant.

 

[girlthatsblanco]

Is this to say that even though you are a man of faith, your sense of morality is flawed?

Without the Word of God, my morality is subjective.....just like anyone else. I think history shows that is dangerous.

 

[retro23j]

I think he's referring to the commandments and similar passages regarding worshipping "false/idol" gods. Along with the fact that you're not eligible for heaven if you don't believe/accept Jesus as your savior. Those sentiments leave a possibly-decent person with Hell as their destination.

Also, many of the atheist would believe in god(s) if there was ever evidence- base, peer reviewable, sound/logical, irrefutable proof.

Having faith dismisses those notions, though . Because faith isn't based on rationality, logic and the likewise. Which makes faith a crutch for reality because you can have all the faith you desire, but it doesn't make things true/real.


For those that believe in the bible, what inclines you to do so?

For many, maybe even the majority,they just believe it because a figure with authority taught them as a child or during times of devastation/vulnerability.(children,druggies, traumatic victims)

I can't agree with Hell being the destination for someone who has never been preached Jesus. If there was scriptural support, yes. If they were sent a minister, like Peter and Cornelius, and they rejected it, yes. Otherwise if they had no idea who Jesus is then I can't agree.

What inclines me to believe is my own evidence that was given to me. Evidence is available if you look for it.  I grew up with apostolic parents who taught my sister and I the bible and all but it really takes a one on one experience with God for it to really stick.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

But if someone is living in a remote area in NorthEastern Japan, will they be held responsible if they didn't "hop on" when some random white dude came to their village with his propoganda?

What about people with severe intellectual disabilities?

What about combination blind/deaf folks?

When you say, "If you are exposed to it, and you "reject" it, you are held responsible" Define rejection

 

[deleted]

Without the Word of God, my morality is subjective.....just like anyone else. I think history shows that is dangerous.

Even though you described it as subjective, you've just admitted that people can have a sense of morality without God

This goes against what you said earlier about morality being exclusively linked to faith

 

[retro23j]

 
But if someone is living in a remote area in NorthEastern Japan, will they be held responsible if they didn't "hop on" when some random white dude came to their village with his propoganda?

What about people with severe intellectual disabilities?

What about combination blind/deaf folks?

When you say, "If you are exposed to it, and you "reject" it, you are held responsible" Define rejection

Not my decision so I don't know.

When I say rejection I mean unbelief in what was said.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

 
Not my decision so I don't know.

When I say rejection I mean unbelief in what was said.

Wasn't implying it was your decision man, was just throwing the question out there.

But that belief in what was said has a lot to do with the social conditioning.

You can't control whether or not you believe in something, even though people are acting like you can.

If I am hearing something for the first time and I don't buy it, God is going to hold me responsible? I mean think about how egotistical and silly that sounds.

 

[girlthatsblanco]

Even though you described it as subjective, you've just admitted that people can have a sense of morality without God

This goes against what you said earlier about morality being exclusively linked to faith

Let me clarify. Objective morality comes from God. Every time we argue over right and wrong, we appeal to a higher law that we assume everyone is aware of, holds to, and is not free to arbitrarily change. Right and wrong imply a higher standard or law, and law requires a lawgiver. Because the Moral Law transcends humanity, this universal law requires a universal lawgiver. Subjective morality causes chaos.

 

[the collector]

Where is this in the bible?

I'll find it for you. In the mean time can you or any Christian argue against this...




For the record I've watched the entire debate and suggest others do too. Along with other debates held in this same fashion.

 

[retro23j]

@DCAllAmerican  Social conditioning, I can agree with. Not having control over what you believe in, I'm not sure about. Skepticism, yes because you can be hesitant yet give something a try to see whether or not it's for you.

 

[Master Zik]

Is this to say that even though you are a man of faith, your sense of morality is flawed?

Without the Word of God, my morality is subjective.....just like anyone else. I think history shows that is dangerous.

History also shows the opposite though.

History also shows with the word of GOD, any "objective" morality is just as if not more dangerous.

 

[retro23j]

@The Collector  Thanks.

Personally, I won't argue with that. Someone else can if they want.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

 
@DCAllAmerican  Social conditioning, I can agree with. Not having control over what you believe in, I'm not sure about. Skepticism, yes because you can be hesitant yet give something a try to see whether or not it's for you.

You can give it a try.

You can be open to it.

But you can't control what you doubt.

You can't MAKE yourself not doubt anything.

Which is why I always laugh at the, "Why not just believe just in case he does exist" crew. If it were that easy, I would believe. But it doesn't make sense to me, so I don't / won't. 

 

[the collector]

@The Collector
 Thanks.

Personally, I won't argue with that. Someone else can if they want.

No problem. For the record. Science has yet to disprove a God may exist. I'm open to there being a God. However I just don't believe we as humans have all the answer from any religion. Mainly the major ones. I haven't read up on all the Gods that's ever existed but of the ones I've looked into myself I'm not convinced.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

No problem. For the record. Science has yet to disprove a God may exist. I'm open to there being a God. However I just don't believe we as humans have all the answer from any religion. Mainly the major ones. I haven't read up on all the Gods that's ever existed but of the ones I've looked into myself I'm not convinced.

The burden of proof falls under the person making the claim though.

So it isn't science's job to "disprove" God's existence.