News On Future Films Based on Comics/Paranormal/Sci-Fi

[rfx45]

Let me rudely interrupt this discussion with some possible news....




Could thing be the THING?

 

[blastercombo]

Looks to be. Thank god no more 5"5 thing :x

 

[Master Zik]

Looks to be. Thank god no more 5"5 thing :x

The Thing was originally not that tall 6'0 range.

5'5" is a joke though. I thought Chiklis was taller. quote name="RFX45" url="/t/248810/news-on-future-comic-monster-e-ts-natural-phenomenon-paranormal-based-films/10100_100#post_21220601"]

Well I guess we can go back to my other suggestions like paralyzing him or lobotomizing him but imo Supes aint trying hard enough. If he can snap his neck he should be able to knock him out.

Again he tried with his punches and attacks that I am sure he knows would behead normal humans. I mean look at the battle and destruction, he did everything and it had very little to no effect on Zod. How can he not be trying hard enough? He knows his punches would hurt more than slamming his head to the floor or to the wall. There was nothing he could do to make damage. He does't even know how he can paralyze him since again he himself knows he can't get paralyzed or hurt himself.
[/QUOTE]
He didn't try hard enough as I've already said. He did not try to paralyze him or to lobotomize him or to really incapacitate him. Just beat him down. As for knocking him out. I must've missed the scenes where he did more than slamming him in to buildings and punching. You'd think at some point he'd start using heavy machinery.

Man as far as what's harder, it's simple physics. Force, gravity, mass. The same fist from the same distance, meh. Maybe if he was flying around the world at super speed and punching him every go around you could say he tried. Look to the comics, hell look to cartoons. There were plenty of ways. You can't tell me you watched that fight and Supes tried everything. That whole ending was just a fight so it could be as action packed as possible and cause the most destruction.

Yes you can lock him up. He was locked away in the phantom zone for what 30+ years? and again I listed other options you're selectively forgetting. Tell me about the numerous super villains laying up in Arkham (which aint even a prison btw) that are paralyzed cuz Batman made sure they'd never walk again.

It's not forgetting, again all Kryptonian sources Supes has are gone. Even his own ship that delivered him as a baby was destroyed. See the rest below.

I think we're talking about at different parts of the movie. Cuz Superman flying Zod to the moon or Titan is enough of a prison itself before we even get in to having enough time to build a prison or going to his ship (before it's gone and getting a solution on how to stop Zod and contain him).

If I'm Superman and I don't want to kill him I force his head to face the floor which I should be more than able to do or I simply grab him by the neck and fly away and then slam in to the ground. I don't stop trying and I don't give up. What second to think? I'm Superman, I've been soaking up solar rays for more than 2 decades I'm sure my super thinking will provide me 1000 alternatives to killing but like I said why I aint flying this fool in to space since he can't fly yet? Rip off his armor and send him in to the freezing cold void of space so I can get my bearings if need be. Last I checked there's a black hole that's reachable in the area. Throw Zod in to that.

Like what though? Again, his solution was to send them back to the phantom zone via black hole by crashing his ship to theirs and Zod didn't get sucked up. The ships are gone so are the black holes. So how is he going to make another entrance to the Phantom Zone?

Like I said there's still deep space. There are black holes in the solar system, in the galaxy that Supes can throw Zod in to. Plus he could've just strand him on Pluto.

I mean yeah he is suppose to be super smart but he doesn't have years to learn about Kryptonians and their weaknesses. It's all new to him. He can't learn something he has no source of getting the knowledge from, its not like there's a book about Kryptonians he could read on. Either way, being super smart isn't an ability they showed in the movie, he isn't book smart at least not yet, not until he needs it as Clark Kent the journalist not Clark Kent the hobo.

No it's not all new to him. Clark spent over 2 decades with his powers. He wasn't testing his limits but he sure as hell knew how to look at somebody without looking through their clothes or setting them on fire.

In the end, Zod could fly and so he can just go back to Earth. It isn't going to delay him much.

When did Zod show the ability to fly? He was leaping around like the Hulk when he got the hang of his super strength, speed and heat vision. Maybe I missed the part where he was just straight zooming around in the sky wasting Superman. Last I recall in the end, Supes flight was one of the last advantages he had in the fight.

If Superman doesn't give up, the movie could last forever without ending. Again the film set it up so that he had to kill Zod. They set it up so that there is no other end outside of Zods death.

No. The movie doesn't last forever if you write it so that it ends with Superman not killing Zod but paralyzing him or stranding him off in space. Stop pretending it couldn't.

So really you're either gonna have Supes do something similar to Spidey or have him cross the line in to Blade/Wolverine territory. Supes never been that type as far as when you're summarizing who he is as a hero and what he represents. Too much of a cop out.

I get your angle of it's a process and what I'm saying he's no longer starting from zero. Superman automatically forfeited any chance to be eligible for "being better than that" once he killed Zod.

I disagree. He has killed in the comics before and he is still considered the big blue boy scout, the one who is nothing but good and perfect.

That's cuz in the comics they reboot every decade. How many times has Supes killed on a public stage in the comics and not been viewed as murder? I hope you aint gonna cite the times he kills monster looking dudes like Darkseid, Doomsday and whats his name with the huge spaceship and yellow skin. When they're not rebooting, they're lessening the murder. They're never justifying it by saying Superman couldn't do anything else. They always have an escape to excuse his actions if need be and most of the time that's a Superman that isn't a noob and may have actually exhausted the laundry list of ways to stop an opponent before giving up and killing.

 

[rfx45]

When did Zod show the ability to fly? He was leaping around like the Hulk when he got the hang of his super strength, speed and heat vision. Maybe I missed the part where he was just straight zooming around in the sky wasting Superman. Last I recall in the end, Supes flight was one of the last advantages he had in the fight.

Second half of the fight has Zod flying.

No it's not all new to him. Clark spent over 2 decades with his powers. He wasn't testing his limits but he sure as hell knew how to look at somebody without looking through their clothes or setting them on fire.

And that doesn't really make him an expert on Kryptonian weaknesses. Again absorbing the sun doesn't gain him knowledge, he still had to learn it by reading a book or something.

Like I said there's still deep space. There are black holes in the solar system, in the galaxy that Supes can throw Zod in to. Plus he could've just strand him on Pluto.

Again, this isn't within Supes knowledge, he isn't super smart who has been reading about deep space travel or physics, it was not shown. Hell Lois had to tell him from his virtual dad how to active the Phantom Zone.

I think we're talking about at different parts of the movie. Cuz Superman flying Zod to the moon or Titan is enough of a prison itself before we even get in to having enough time to build a prison or going to his ship (before it's gone and getting a solution on how to stop Zod and contain him).

No. The movie doesn't last forever if you write it so that it ends with Superman not killing Zod but paralyzing him or stranding him off in space. Stop pretending it couldn't.

Again, he could fly. He wouldn't know how to paralyze him. Just watch that clip, he may not be trying to punch his vertebrae but he did try to throw to space to no avail, punching his face and not doing damage through the whole fight. Again dude can't just fly around the world to create an impact, every second he is gone Zods kills a human.


I mean really Zod being able to fly eliminates most of your options. Dude could break from Supes hold while he searches for a black hole (which I doubt Superman could fly fast enough to find one in space especially if he has no knowledge of where one could exist) and simply fly back to Earth.

No. The movie doesn't last forever if you write it so that it ends with Superman not killing Zod but paralyzing him or stranding him off in space. Stop pretending it couldn't.

I'm starting to think we are talking about different things. Again the script is written so that he has no choice but to kill Zod and that was the scenario they presented. Of course if they choose to tell a story where he doesn't kill Zod they could create a scenario for that, hell they could have written Zod say I give up and go crying to the moon but that's not the script they wrote. I get it that you don't like the film but I kept saying the discussion is within the parameters of the film and if you're in his shoes that was a last resort option especially when trying to save a family. Tthe discussion was on that situation the movie presented, no deep space knowledge or no idea where in space a black hole may exist, no kryptonian ship, no virtual dad to help, no enemy weakness in sight, etc.... they created a scenario where he had to kill Zod to stop him.

That's cuz in the comics they reboot every decade. How many times has Supes killed on a public stage in the comics and not been viewed as murder? I hope you aint gonna cite the times he kills monster looking dudes like Darkseid, Doomsday and whats his name with the huge spaceship and yellow skin. When they're not rebooting, they're lessening the murder. They're never justifying it by saying Superman couldn't do anything else. They always have an escape to excuse his actions if need be and most of the time that's a Superman that isn't a noob and may have actually exhausted the laundry list of ways to stop an opponent before giving up and killing.

I am not saying what he did isn't murder, but Zod killing is almost in the same vein as killing Doomsday or Darkseid, it's a threat to humanity, a monster in human form that had to be dealt with. Just because he doesn't look like a monster doesn't mean he isn't as huge of a threat or danger to eh whole humanity.

Chances are this will be forgiveable by the people of Metropolis as he did save them from Zod. I also see this as part of the repercusion with Lex using his killing of Zod to trash him while there are believers out there who likes Supes and sees him as a saviour.


Ok well I am guessing the Golden Age should count being written and created by Siegel and Schuster and if anyone is going to know how Superman is suppose to be and what is "essence" is as it stated, it's got to be original creators, right?

But is there a precedence of Superman willing to and in fact, taking a life in certain situations. You might be surprised to learn that there are more than a few irrefutable examples of Superman taking a life. Superman has actually shown a decidedly fickle approach to the sanctity of life on more than a few separate examples taken from his long history.

Let's start at the very beginning, the golden age. Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster were the masterminds behind Superman so if anyone has any veracity on what comprises the 'essence' of Superman, it's undoubtedly these two guys. They wrote Superman's original adventures and they defined his characteristics. In Superman #1 we see Superman throw a man who was questioning some soldiers off a cliff and destroy an enemy plane. They were enemy combatants but Superman was still a far cry from the 'every life is sacred' attitude he would later develop.

Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster would continue to highlight Superman's willingness to take emphatic and life ending action in Superman #2. Here Superman blows up a munitions factory in broad daylight, there had to be dozens of workers in there if not more. Next we see Clark Kent put three criminals on trial and he even takes the stand against them in Court to secure the death sentence for all three of them. Superman is apparently pro death penalty and he does it all to impress Lois Lane, not from any burning desire to see justice done.

Next we see Superman allowing a domestic terrorist to die by his own toxic creation while he begs for help and Superman stands by and actually torments the would be terrorist as he is choking to death. Now I don't care who you are, that's cold, even for someone like The Punisher or Rorschach.

Let's fast forward to Superman #4, here we see Superman catching a bomb dropped by an aircraft, that's certainly heroic enough. Until he throws the bomb back at the aircraft, destroying it. And in the next panel we see Superman sabotage a criminals brake system while they're driving down a mountain. Superman then escapes with Lois while the two occupants plummet to their deaths.

Superman's vehicular heroics continue in Superman #6 when two cars fall off a mountain, one works for The Daily Planet and the other is a car full of criminals. It's an easy guess who Superman saves but he is not the least bit conflicted by the criminals deaths, Superman even says "A well deserved fate!" while scanning the fiery wreckage. The next panel is an especially interesting one.

A cunning citizen discovers Superman's identity and tries to blackmail Superman. What was Superman's response you might be wondering, "Hasn't it occurred to you that I could snap your neck with these fingers and I'd never have to worry about being exposed!". Needless to say, the citizen is terrified and he runs for his life with Clark Kent in pursuit. The citizen gets to a flight of stairs and declares that he knows Superman's identity but Clark Kent manages to get in front of the man and then the man mysteriously tumbles down the stairs and dies before he can spill Clark Kent's secret. Whether Clark Kent pushed him down the stairs or not is not clear so it's up to you to decide but it is an extremely convenient accident.

Here, a would be assassins bullet ricochets off a wall and kills himself and the ever altruistic Superman quips "A murderer's fate!". When Superman rushes to a building it is blown up by a demolition crew yet for some inexplicable reason, Superman catches some falling steel and throws it directly on top of some innocent bystanders. The caption says that Superman threw the debris in an empty lot but you can clearly see it squashes two civilians. The civilians are even screaming "NO, NO!".

Moving on to Superman #8. We see Superman scout out a hidden army consisting of at least two platoons, so Superman takes it upon himself to kill every living person he found there. Superman even says that there's "Not a soul left alive - except for myself!".

Now this is probably the most famous example of Superman murdering some one or some three to be more precise. Superman took it upon himself to execute General Zod, Quex-Ul and Faora, who were completely powerless at the time. This unfolded in Superman #22.

General Zod and Superman are once again at the forefront of Superman's life ending proclivities, this time in Action Comics #805. Superman breaks Zod's neck again although apparently not quite enough to kill him but Zod charges straight back into battle and Superman viciously elbows Zod in his stomach and Zod literally drops dead.

Here's a more recent example an dprobably the best example of willing to kill as a last resort.

In Superman #03, In an attempt to free a hostage from an alien sentience, Superman unleashes the full power of his heat vision upon her alien form expecting to kill her, Superman even begs for forgiveness as he does it and while he ultimately doesn't kill her, Superman did fully intend to end her life for the greater good.

And those examples are just of Supermans killings on humans, doesn't even count the monsters or armies of aliens he has killed and destroyed. That also excludes him killing via mind control or other cop outs as you say.

In the end, Superman has killed and even for the original creator of the character, it is the norm.

 

[rfx45]

Kevin Smiths new horror flick.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Second half of the fight has Zod flying.

In the end, Superman has killed and even for the original creator of the character, it is the norm.

ITS NOT THE NORM.

don't play dumb in order to win an arguemnt.

You know as well as I that if superman killed someone in a comic tomorrow it will be met with a fire storm of critiscm.

picking through 70 years of superan stories is pointless exercise because we know that killing is a taboo part of the character.


my critques aren't new

the movie faces massive amounts of critism upon its release:

the movie reviewed poorly. Criticized by notable comic people. joe qusada, mark waid (writer of many of the elements that are in MOS).


the mere fact that were sitting here arguing about superman killing subverts your argument, we all know that the mythos of superman is he doesn't kill

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Mark Waid confirming what I suspected all along.

“I’ve talked over and over to the people at DC over the last ten years, and I know what WB’s feeling is about Superman, which is that he’s stupid, he’s corny and why can’t he be more like Batman? Well, because he’s not Batman, but there’s nothing Hollywood loves more than safe bets. So that certainly always informs the tone and direction that this movie was going to have. We always knew once they got serious about it that it was going to be a darker, more brooding take, but I kind of thought there would be a little wiggle room there.”

:x

 

[Master Zik]

When did Zod show the ability to fly? He was leaping around like the Hulk when he got the hang of his super strength, speed and heat vision. Maybe I missed the part where he was just straight zooming around in the sky wasting Superman. Last I recall in the end, Supes flight was one of the last advantages he had in the fight.

Second half of the fight has Zod flying.

This slipped my mind. This is of course him gaining flight at the very end not really the 2nd half of the fight. This is right before he dies.

This vid clearly shows his opportunities to do every single one of my suggestions and alternative options. They fight in to Earth's atmosphere right there. So back when he had him in the headlock just simply fly him back in to space but this time even further or again paralyze him or fly him in to space before he could fly. Fly him to Pluto BEFORE ZOD COULD FLY.

By now I think you should know when I'm talking about these other options they should be done BEFORE ZOD COULD FLY. Can't get simpler than that.

No it's not all new to him. Clark spent over 2 decades with his powers. He wasn't testing his limits but he sure as hell knew how to look at somebody without looking through their clothes or setting them on fire.

And that doesn't really make him an expert on Kryptonian weaknesses. Again absorbing the sun doesn't gain him knowledge, he still had to learn it by reading a book or something.

Wait what? I'm not talking about being an expert on kryptonian weaknesses. I didn't say anything about kryptonite or the rays of the red sun or magic. I'm still simply talking about damaging his spine. I'm talking about all the years of Clark knowing what he's capable of and what Zod would be capable of, seeing him get the hang of it the more they fought and at that moment of despair when he know he's about to kill more ppl, simply heat vision his frontal lobe or vertebrae. You don't need to read a book to have it in mind to want to cripple someone. Has Clark never watched tv or a movie? C'mon, at least read the paper. If so this even poorer Pa Kent parenting.

I'm not talking about gaining knowledge through sun absorption

Like I said there's still deep space. There are black holes in the solar system, in the galaxy that Supes can throw Zod in to. Plus he could've just strand him on Pluto.

Again, this isn't within Supes knowledge, he isn't super smart who has been reading about deep space travel or physics, it was not shown. Hell Lois had to tell him from his virtual dad how to active the Phantom Zone.

What do you mean not within his knowledge? Does he not know of Earth's solar system? Are you trying to suggest he was super dumb in school and doesn't know about the other planets? He knows he's an alien but he's not aware of Mars? Uranus? Maybe not knowing Pluto is a moon now is one thing but c'mon. I'm not at all sure what you're saying he doesn't know or can't know. You don't need to be super smart to know this stuff. 8 yr olds know these things.

You telling me Clark can't spot a black hole in space now? I mean he already knows he can fly in space just fine so why not fly a bit farther? This isn't really a believable reply to what I'm saying. I can't take it seriously.

I think we're talking about at different parts of the movie. Cuz Superman flying Zod to the moon or Titan is enough of a prison itself before we even get in to having enough time to build a prison or going to his ship (before it's gone and getting a solution on how to stop Zod and contain him).

No. The movie doesn't last forever if you write it so that it ends with Superman not killing Zod but paralyzing him or stranding him off in space. Stop pretending it couldn't.

Again, he could fly.

He could fly near the end of the fight. He wasn't flying during the entirety of the fight. Every moment before then he could've done what I've said. Stop pretending he was flying the whole time or that you don't know I'm talking about before he learned how to fly.

He wouldn't know how to paralyze him.

This is false. Superman isn't some infant. You're just assuming this. Paralyzing Zod would be the same as a regular human paralyzing another human. Now for Supes when you add in the super powers I'm not sure why you're saying he wouldn't know other than assuming it's not an option to support the idea he had no other choice but to kill him.

Just watch that clip, he may not be trying to punch his vertebrae but he did try to throw to space to no avail, punching his face and not doing damage through the whole fight. Again dude can't just fly around the world to create an impact, every second he is gone Zods kills a human.

It wasn't to no avail. He simply stopped and gave up when they got back down to Earth. He could've easily slammed in to him once more back out in to space for another go around. It would've at the very least lessened the human death toll. I mean really, he killed him cuz they wanted it to happen not cuz there weren't any other options. I mean how silly it is alone that they fly all the way in to space and then land back in Metropolis for the end?

I mean really Zod being able to fly eliminates most of your options. Dude could break from Supes hold while he searches for a black hole (which I doubt Superman could fly fast enough to find one in space especially if he has no knowledge of where one could exist) and simply fly back to Earth.

Again Supes could've done everything I said before Zod learned how to fly. He wasn't flying from the beginning of the fight but instead he wasted time to destroying the city.

No. The movie doesn't last forever if you write it so that it ends with Superman not killing Zod but paralyzing him or stranding him off in space. Stop pretending it couldn't.

I'm starting to think we are talking about different things. Again the script is written so that he has no choice but to kill Zod and that was the scenario they presented. Of course if they choose to tell a story where he doesn't kill Zod they could create a scenario for that, hell they could have written Zod say I give up and go crying to the moon but that's not the script they wrote. I get it that you don't like the film but I kept saying the discussion is within the parameters of the film and if you're in his shoes that was a last resort option especially when trying to save a family. Tthe discussion was on that situation the movie presented, no deep space knowledge or no idea where in space a black hole may exist, no kryptonian ship, no virtual dad to help, no enemy weakness in sight, etc.... they created a scenario where he had to kill Zod to stop him.

I'm saying the scene was not written so that there were no options. Just portrayed in that way so that he did kill him. You saying the movie would go on forever if he didn't want to kill him is just baseless.

That's cuz in the comics they reboot every decade. How many times has Supes killed on a public stage in the comics and not been viewed as murder? I hope you aint gonna cite the times he kills monster looking dudes like Darkseid, Doomsday and whats his name with the huge spaceship and yellow skin. When they're not rebooting, they're lessening the murder. They're never justifying it by saying Superman couldn't do anything else. They always have an escape to excuse his actions if need be and most of the time that's a Superman that isn't a noob and may have actually exhausted the laundry list of ways to stop an opponent before giving up and killing.

I am not saying what he did isn't murder, but Zod killing is almost in the same vein as killing Doomsday or Darkseid, it's a threat to humanity, a monster in human form that had to be dealt with. Just because he doesn't look like a monster doesn't mean he isn't as huge of a threat or danger to eh whole humanity.

Chances are this will be forgiveable by the people of Metropolis as he did save them from Zod. I also see this as part of the repercusion with Lex using his killing of Zod to trash him while there are believers out there who likes Supes and sees him as a saviour.

It's not about forgiveness. At this point Superman can be viewed as a monster since he's the same damn race as Zod. All it'd take is one bad day for things to change. That's besides the other point that I'm not talking about in movie ramifications. I'm talking about Superman the ideal and the essence of the hero in the media. He isn't a murderer. That the huge movie debut depicts this perverted version of Superman completely misses the mark.

Ok well I am guessing the Golden Age should count being written and created by Siegel and Schuster and if anyone is going to know how Superman is suppose to be and what is "essence" is as it stated, it's got to be original creators, right?

But is there a precedence of Superman willing to and in fact, taking a life in certain situations. You might be surprised to learn that there are more than a few irrefutable examples of Superman taking a life. Superman has actually shown a decidedly fickle approach to the sanctity of life on more than a few separate examples taken from his long history.

Let's start at the very beginning, the golden age. Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster were the masterminds behind Superman so if anyone has any veracity on what comprises the 'essence' of Superman, it's undoubtedly these two guys. They wrote Superman's original adventures and they defined his characteristics. In Superman #1 we see Superman throw a man who was questioning some soldiers off a cliff and destroy an enemy plane. They were enemy combatants but Superman was still a far cry from the 'every life is sacred' attitude he would later develop.

Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster would continue to highlight Superman's willingness to take emphatic and life ending action in Superman #2. Here Superman blows up a munitions factory in broad daylight, there had to be dozens of workers in there if not more. Next we see Clark Kent put three criminals on trial and he even takes the stand against them in Court to secure the death sentence for all three of them. Superman is apparently pro death penalty and he does it all to impress Lois Lane, not from any burning desire to see justice done.

Next we see Superman allowing a domestic terrorist to die by his own toxic creation while he begs for help and Superman stands by and actually torments the would be terrorist as he is choking to death. Now I don't care who you are, that's cold, even for someone like The Punisher or Rorschach.

Let's fast forward to Superman #4, here we see Superman catching a bomb dropped by an aircraft, that's certainly heroic enough. Until he throws the bomb back at the aircraft, destroying it. And in the next panel we see Superman sabotage a criminals brake system while they're driving down a mountain. Superman then escapes with Lois while the two occupants plummet to their deaths.

Superman's vehicular heroics continue in Superman #6 when two cars fall off a mountain, one works for The Daily Planet and the other is a car full of criminals. It's an easy guess who Superman saves but he is not the least bit conflicted by the criminals deaths, Superman even says "A well deserved fate!" while scanning the fiery wreckage. The next panel is an especially interesting one.

A cunning citizen discovers Superman's identity and tries to blackmail Superman. What was Superman's response you might be wondering, "Hasn't it occurred to you that I could snap your neck with these fingers and I'd never have to worry about being exposed!". Needless to say, the citizen is terrified and he runs for his life with Clark Kent in pursuit. The citizen gets to a flight of stairs and declares that he knows Superman's identity but Clark Kent manages to get in front of the man and then the man mysteriously tumbles down the stairs and dies before he can spill Clark Kent's secret. Whether Clark Kent pushed him down the stairs or not is not clear so it's up to you to decide but it is an extremely convenient accident.

Here, a would be assassins bullet ricochets off a wall and kills himself and the ever altruistic Superman quips "A murderer's fate!". When Superman rushes to a building it is blown up by a demolition crew yet for some inexplicable reason, Superman catches some falling steel and throws it directly on top of some innocent bystanders. The caption says that Superman threw the debris in an empty lot but you can clearly see it squashes two civilians. The civilians are even screaming "NO, NO!".

Moving on to Superman #8. We see Superman scout out a hidden army consisting of at least two platoons, so Superman takes it upon himself to kill every living person he found there. Superman even says that there's "Not a soul left alive - except for myself!".

General Zod and Superman are once again at the forefront of Superman's life ending proclivities, this time in Action Comics #805. Superman breaks Zod's neck again although apparently not quite enough to kill him but Zod charges straight back into battle and Superman viciously elbows Zod in his stomach and Zod literally drops dead.

The golden age doesn't count because as far as continuity goes none of that happened in reality I'm pretty sure you saw me bring up the golden age before as far as Superman goes with him being a jerk and reckless. All of I think got regulated to being comics about Superman the real hero in the comics right around the silver age and superheroes were making money again.

Here's a more recent example an dprobably the best example of killing as a last resort.

In Superman #03, In an attempt to free a hostage from an alien sentience, Superman unleashes the full power of his heat vision upon her alien form expecting to kill her, Superman even begs for forgiveness as he does it and while he ultimately doesn't kill her, Superman did fully intend to end her life for the greater good.

And those examples are just of Supermans killings on humans, doesn't even count the monsters or armies of aliens he has killed and destroyed. That also excludes him killing via mind control or other cop outs as you say.

In the end, Superman has killed and even for the original creator of the character, it is the norm.

So like I thought they gave Superman an out like they usually do like I just said. This recent example just proves my point. He intended to kill her and doesn't. He thinks he has no other choice so instead of him actually killing her he just asks for forgiveness but doesn't become a murderer.

 

[ksteezy]

Kevin Smiths new horror flick.

I'll watch, looks cool.

And is that the kid from the sixth sense all grown up?...

 

[rfx45]

Second half of the fight has Zod flying.

In the end, Superman has killed and even for the original creator of the character, it is the norm.

ITS NOT THE NORM.

don't play dumb in order to win an arguemnt.

You know as well as I that if superman killed someone in a comic tomorrow it will be met with a fire storm of critiscm.

picking through 70 years of superan stories is pointless exercise because we know that killing is a taboo part of the character.


my critques aren't new

the movie faces massive amounts of critism upon its release:

the movie reviewed poorly. Criticized by notable comic people. joe qusada, mark waid (writer of many of the elements that are in MOS).


the mere fact that were sitting here arguing about superman killing subverts your argument, we all know that the mythos of superman is he doesn't kill

Read what I wrote again please.

In the end, Superman has killed and even for the original creator of the character, it is the norm.

To the creators, TO THE CREATORS! That is clear by the comics scans I posted.


It isn't the norm today, that is evident and why I keep saying Supes isn't going to be a murderer from now on. He has to learn the consequence of killing someone but to you, Supes just doesn't kill, plain and simple.

This is a Superman misconception and mostly, people just hate Superman to hate on Superman.

 

[sunshineblotters]

Mark Waid confirming what I suspected all along.
:x

That's not just WB. Superman has a lot of haters. Myself included. Superman fans have to defend him all the time.

 

[Master Zik]

Second half of the fight has Zod flying.

In the end, Superman has killed and even for the original creator of the character, it is the norm.

ITS NOT THE NORM.

don't play dumb in order to win an arguemnt.

You know as well as I that if superman killed someone in a comic tomorrow it will be met with a fire storm of critiscm.

picking through 70 years of superan stories is pointless exercise because we know that killing is a taboo part of the character.


my critques aren't new

the movie faces massive amounts of critism upon its release:

the movie reviewed poorly. Criticized by notable comic people. joe qusada, mark waid (writer of many of the elements that are in MOS).


the mere fact that were sitting here arguing about superman killing subverts your argument, we all know that the mythos of superman is he doesn't kill

Read what I wrote again please.

In the end, Superman has killed and even for the original creator of the character, it is the norm.

To the creators, TO THE CREATORS! That is clear by the comics scans I posted.


It isn't the norm today, that is evident and why I keep saying Supes isn't going to be a murderer from now on. He has to learn the consequence of killing someone but to you, Supes just doesn't kill, plain and simple.

This is a Superman misconception and mostly, people just hate Superman to hate on Superman.

What you're saying here doesn't even make sense. MOS ending was what an homage to Supes' creator having Superman kill but in all sequels it'll be updated to modern day sensibilities?

I mean really c'mon If Superman's creator was really seeing murder as a natural solution for Superman, Lex Luthor would be dead, and every other villain would be dead. He'd be a GOD amongst men and rule as one. The golden age is filled with a bunch of stupid silly ideas for a comic to meet deadlines. Referencing the comics in this way isn't really addressing the topic when it comes to the image of Superman on a local, national, or global scale. All of those issues by the creator don't even rate. If this was the accepted Superman he'd be a villain. He'd kill all of his foes and be done with it. It'd be worse than injustice or the justice lords or the crime syndicate versions.

I mean keep in mind these are stories written during World War 2 where Supes would at times kill communists, nazis, and the Japanese for America with Supes power set being relatively different or inconsistent.

 

[rfx45]

So like I thought they gave Superman an out like they usually do like I just said. This recent example just proves my point. He intended to kill her and doesn't. He thinks he has no other choice so instead of him actually killing her he just asks for forgiveness but doesn't become a murderer.

He still intended to murder and kill, that is the point whether he kills or not. That was the discussion, he still intends to kill as last resort.

The golden age doesn't count because as far as continuity goes none of that happened in reality laugh.gif I'm pretty sure you saw me bring up the golden age before as far as Superman goes with him being a jerk and reckless. All of I think got regulated to being comics about Superman the real hero in the comics right around the silver age and superheroes were making money again.

Golden Age counts of course, it is what Superman is and that is staright from the creators themselves and how they see the character. I saw you bring that up but if we are going to be talking about the "essence" of Superman (not just with you and I but to others who are just saying Supes never kills), who better to take it from the creators?

I'm saying the scene was not written so that there were no options. Just portrayed in that way so that he did kill him. You saying the movie would go on forever if he didn't want to kill him is just baseless.

It's as baseless as you saying it won't. I mean at the end of the day we can both create an ending there or not create one if we do not follow or accept the movies ending. Based off of what happened in the film and Supes not being a super genius and brand new at what he is doing, it'll take forever to for him to come up with a solution if he could at all. They'd have to be punching each other until the whole planet is destroyed.

What do you mean not within his knowledge? Does he not know of Earth's solar system? Are you trying to suggest he was super dumb in school and doesn't know about the other planets? He knows he's an alien but he's not aware of Mars? Uranus? Maybe not knowing Pluto is a moon now is one thing but c'mon. I'm not at all sure what you're saying he doesn't know or can't know. You don't need to be super smart to know this stuff. 8 yr olds know these things.

You telling me Clark can't spot a black hole in space now? I mean he already knows he can fly in space just fine so why not fly a bit farther? This isn't really a believable reply to what I'm saying. I can't take it seriously.

Again Zod could fly, he'd just fly back or escape his grasp. Superman doesn't fly that quick either, you act like he can teleport to the planets.

And why would Supe be able to spot a black hole from Earth just by looking up? He never showed this ability in the movie at all. Why would he be able to spot it out of nowhere and millions of lightyears away?

 

[IATT]

Let me rudely interrupt this discussion with some possible news....




Could thing be the THING?

Looks like stone dude from the planet hulk cartoon movie

 

[rfx45]

I mean really, he killed him cuz they wanted it to happen not cuz there weren't any other options.

I've said this countless of times, the only thing we disagreed on is his options. I feel they showed he had no other options, you obviously see it differently but I am sure you've read me write that countless of times.

I don't think it depict Supes as a murderer in the media either, he had reason to do it and it was for the better of the humanity in the film.

Second half of the fight has Zod flying.

In the end, Superman has killed and even for the original creator of the character, it is the norm.

ITS NOT THE NORM.

don't play dumb in order to win an arguemnt.

You know as well as I that if superman killed someone in a comic tomorrow it will be met with a fire storm of critiscm.

picking through 70 years of superan stories is pointless exercise because we know that killing is a taboo part of the character.


my critques aren't new

the movie faces massive amounts of critism upon its release:

the movie reviewed poorly. Criticized by notable comic people. joe qusada, mark waid (writer of many of the elements that are in MOS).


the mere fact that were sitting here arguing about superman killing subverts your argument, we all know that the mythos of superman is he doesn't kill

Read what I wrote again please.

In the end, Superman has killed and even for the original creator of the character, it is the norm.

To the creators, TO THE CREATORS! That is clear by the comics scans I posted.


It isn't the norm today, that is evident and why I keep saying Supes isn't going to be a murderer from now on. He has to learn the consequence of killing someone but to you, Supes just doesn't kill, plain and simple.

This is a Superman misconception and mostly, people just hate Superman to hate on Superman.

What you're saying here doesn't even make sense. MOS ending was what an homage to Supes' creator having Superman kill but in all sequels it'll be updated to modern day sensibilities?

I mean really c'mon If Superman's creator was really seeing murder as a natural solution for Superman, Lex Luthor would be dead, and every other villain would be dead. He'd be a GOD amongst men and rule as one. The golden age is filled with a bunch of stupid silly ideas for a comic to meet deadlines. Referencing the comics in this way isn't really addressing the topic when it comes to the image of Superman on a local, national, or global scale. All of those issues by the creator don't even rate. If this was the accepted Superman he'd be a villain. He'd kill all of his foes and be done with it. It'd be worse than injustice or the justice lords or the crime syndicate versions.

I mean keep in mind these are stories written during World War 2 where Supes would at times kill communists, nazis, and the Japanese for America with Supes power set being relatively different or inconsistent.

Look at the comics, they made Supes do it in every issue. You admitted it yourself, he was killing let and right.


These days, that wouldn't fly. But again, why can't dude just experience and learn from it? It's like you guys just choose to ignore that Superman can't be perfect and should be perfect. Why is this so hard for people to understand.

I never said killing was a homage to the creators, where did that come from? Osh Kosh was saying its not "Superman" to kill, it never was who he is but Golden Age or not, it was and he did. He kept saying it was never his "essence" but as proof, it was at one point that he was not against killing. That was the point I was trying to prove there with those scans. Silly ideas or not, whether it would fly now or not, Supes killed and right off of the creators pens and it was part of their vision. Now they aren't portraying as a serial killer or mass murderer, he killed those who he deemed justified by it. The creators didn't write him as a serial killer but he did kill to stop crime or major threats. That is a fact.



I'll end my end of the argument on this here because no matter what I say, admit it or not but there are Superman hate sipping through some of these posts and just there to pick apart something. Some will always find a reason to hate on WB or Superman no matter what. (not pointing any fingers but it happens) Plus I just typed and wrote stuff that apparently will be disregarded anyways because they aren't relevant or canon even though it still proved that "Superman Killed" based off of the original creators pages themselves, which was the main argument to begin with. Everything will just be interpreted the other way around anyways.




Back to comic con news now... PLEASE!

 

[rfx45]

Here's more DC for people to hate.

DC's 2015 Animations Revealed: BATMAN VS. ROBIN, JUSTICE LEAGUE: GODS & MONSTERS


Here's what we've just learned from the Batman: Assault On Arkham panel at SDCC: DC/WB's next animated feature films will be Batman VS. Robin, which will also feature the Court Of Owls, and an original story by Bruce Timm who'll also return to direct -- Justice League: Gods And Monsters. Now as anyone who's read Scott Snyder's Court Of Owls arc will know, Batman and Robin don't square off in the story (although there is a bit of tension between he and Nightwing) so this will probably be either an original story featuring Talon and the Court Of Owls, or just a very loose adaptation. The next movie is Gods And Monsters, and will definitely be an original, which Bruce Timm will write and direct.

 

[rfx45]

AGENT CARTER to Feature Edwin Jarvis, aka Howard Stark’s Butler and Inspiration for Tony Stark’s AI


Question: Given how successful Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. has been with its integration with the Marvel movies, what are you guys going to do on that level?

Stephen McFeely: What’s great is that we have the same bonus with Cap one, that we could do anything we want because we don’t have to tie into anything because we come before everything. Then we forced them to tie into us.

Christopher Markus: We’ll certainly have Easter eggs and even more than that. I think I can say, one of the characters will be Edwin Jarvis, who is Howard Stark’s manservant, who goes on to be a tutor to Tony, and therefore is the inspiration for the AI voice and all that. So it’s that kind of interconnectedness that should make peoples ears go … that’s the kind of reaction I want. That’s right.

 

[Master Zik]

So like I thought they gave Superman an out like they usually do like I just said. This recent example just proves my point. He intended to kill her and doesn't. He thinks he has no other choice so instead of him actually killing her he just asks for forgiveness but doesn't become a murderer.

He still intended to murder and kill, that is the point whether he kills or not. That was the discussion, he still intends to kill as last resort.

No. I think you missed what I explicitly said about him killing in general in the comics compared to what was done in his origin movie. To go along with my other reply referencing he has killed in the comics isn't even addressing what this discussion actually is. Nobody has said Superman hasn't killed in the comics.

The golden age doesn't count because as far as continuity goes none of that happened in reality laugh.gif I'm pretty sure you saw me bring up the golden age before as far as Superman goes with him being a jerk and reckless. All of I think got regulated to being comics about Superman the real hero in the comics right around the silver age and superheroes were making money again.

Golden Age counts of course, it is what Superman is and that is staright from the creators themselves and how they see the character. I saw you bring that up but if we are going to be talking about the "essence" of Superman (not just with you and I but to others who are just saying Supes never kills), who better to take it from the creators?

It doesn't count cuz those same creators and editors retconned those stories out of continuity. They count if you're specifically discussing golden age but that's not what this is about. I kinda feel you didn't read what I originally said about the golden age Superman. To be even clearer golden age Superman isn't the essence or full ideal of Superman. Not if you actually read these nonsensical stories; Superman fakes his death cuz he thinks Lois wants him to propose, Superman decides cars should be banned after somebody dies in a car accident and begins to start throwing cars with ppl off the streets, etc.

Again NOBODY said Superman NEVER kills. We're talking about the essence of Superman and that does not involve murder. You can't seriously be acting coy about that.

That'd be like in the next Batman movie he uses a gun to kill somebody, fans, creators and critics get upset and you say "Oh but Batman has used guns before and then start referencing golden age Batman using a gun or the Batman show where he uses a gun. You're missing the point.

I'm saying the scene was not written so that there were no options. Just portrayed in that way so that he did kill him. You saying the movie would go on forever if he didn't want to kill him is just baseless.

It's as baseless as you saying it won't. I mean at the end of the day we can both create an ending there or not create one if we do not follow or accept the movies ending. Based off of what happened in the film and Supes not being a super genius and brand new at what he is doing, it'll take forever to for him to come up with a solution if he could at all. They'd have to be punching each other until the whole planet is destroyed.

No It's not baseless. The movie LITERALLY could not go on forever from a logistical stand point to a logical stand point. There is literally no basis you could come up with to say the movie would go on forever if Superman doesn't kill Zod.

What do you mean not within his knowledge? Does he not know of Earth's solar system? Are you trying to suggest he was super dumb in school and doesn't know about the other planets? He knows he's an alien but he's not aware of Mars? Uranus? Maybe not knowing Pluto is a moon now is one thing but c'mon. I'm not at all sure what you're saying he doesn't know or can't know. You don't need to be super smart to know this stuff. 8 yr olds know these things.

You telling me Clark can't spot a black hole in space now? I mean he already knows he can fly in space just fine so why not fly a bit farther? This isn't really a believable reply to what I'm saying. I can't take it seriously.

Again Zod could fly, he'd just fly back or escape his grasp.

If Zod could fly the entire time during the fight why didn't he? Cuz at this point you're just ignoring what happened in the movie. He couldn't fly the entire time and you seem to be purposely ignoring that when addressing my alternative options despite me specifically telling you what I'm talking about and when.

Superman doesn't fly that quick either, you act like he can teleport to the planets.

I didn't say that and no I'm not acting like that. It'd take time to do but it'd be faster than spaceship.

And why would Supe be able to spot a black hole from Earth just by looking up? He never showed this ability in the movie at all. Why would he be able to spot it out of nowhere and millions of lightyears away?

Who said he'd spot it just by looking up? Who said he'd spot it out of nowhere millions of lightyears away?

With the way you're selectively quoting me at this point I'm not gonna waste time posting scans of Superman using his super vision and just assume you know what I'm talking about or don't

I mean really, he killed him cuz they wanted it to happen not cuz there weren't any other options.

I've said this countless of times, the only thing we disagreed on is his options. I feel they showed he had no other options, you obviously see it differently but I am sure you've read me write that countless of times.

I don't think it depict Supes as a murderer in the media either, he had reason to do it and it was for the better of the humanity in the film.

Second half of the fight has Zod flying.

In the end, Superman has killed and even for the original creator of the character, it is the norm.

ITS NOT THE NORM.

don't play dumb in order to win an arguemnt.

You know as well as I that if superman killed someone in a comic tomorrow it will be met with a fire storm of critiscm.

picking through 70 years of superan stories is pointless exercise because we know that killing is a taboo part of the character.


my critques aren't new

the movie faces massive amounts of critism upon its release:

the movie reviewed poorly. Criticized by notable comic people. joe qusada, mark waid (writer of many of the elements that are in MOS).


the mere fact that were sitting here arguing about superman killing subverts your argument, we all know that the mythos of superman is he doesn't kill

Read what I wrote again please.

In the end, Superman has killed and even for the original creator of the character, it is the norm.

To the creators, TO THE CREATORS! That is clear by the comics scans I posted.


It isn't the norm today, that is evident and why I keep saying Supes isn't going to be a murderer from now on. He has to learn the consequence of killing someone but to you, Supes just doesn't kill, plain and simple.

This is a Superman misconception and mostly, people just hate Superman to hate on Superman.

What you're saying here doesn't even make sense. MOS ending was what an homage to Supes' creator having Superman kill but in all sequels it'll be updated to modern day sensibilities?

I mean really c'mon If Superman's creator was really seeing murder as a natural solution for Superman, Lex Luthor would be dead, and every other villain would be dead. He'd be a GOD amongst men and rule as one. The golden age is filled with a bunch of stupid silly ideas for a comic to meet deadlines. Referencing the comics in this way isn't really addressing the topic when it comes to the image of Superman on a local, national, or global scale. All of those issues by the creator don't even rate. If this was the accepted Superman he'd be a villain. He'd kill all of his foes and be done with it. It'd be worse than injustice or the justice lords or the crime syndicate versions.

I mean keep in mind these are stories written during World War 2 where Supes would at times kill communists, nazis, and the Japanese for America with Supes power set being relatively different or inconsistent.

Look at the comics, they made Supes do it in every issue. You admitted it yourself, he was killing let and right.


These days, that wouldn't fly. But again, why can't dude just experience and learn from it? It's like you guys just choose to ignore that Superman can't be perfect and should be perfect. Why is this so hard for people to understand.

I never said killing was a homage to the creators, where did that come from? Osh Kosh was saying its not "Superman" to kill, it never was who he is but Golden Age or not, it was and he did. He kept saying it was never his "essence" but as proof, it was at one point that he was not against killing. That was the point I was trying to prove there with those scans. Silly ideas or not, whether it would fly now or not, Supes killed and right off of the creators pens and it was part of their vision. Now they aren't portraying as a serial killer or mass murderer, he killed those who he deemed justified by it. The creators didn't write him as a serial killer but he did kill to stop crime or major threats. That is a fact.



I'll end my end of the argument on this here because no matter what I say, admit it or not but there are Superman hate sipping through some of these posts and just there to pick apart something. Some will always find a reason to hate on WB or Superman no matter what. (not pointing any fingers but it happens) Plus I just typed and wrote stuff that apparently will be disregarded anyways because they aren't relevant or canon even though it still proved that "Superman Killed" based off of the original creators pages themselves, which was the main argument to begin with. Everything will just be interpreted the other way around anyways.




Back to comic con news now... PLEASE!

It's not even these days. Those issues are from the damn 30s and 40s during the war

That Superman is rebooted and ditched. Silver age Supes wasn't getting down like that and couldn't but that aside I think you're missing what is meant by the word essence if you have to constantly put it in quotation marks to understand what is meant.

You've been purposely denying what this topic has been about to turn it in to Superman did oil in the comics and ignoring what we're saying was wrong about the scene in it's entirety and what it means. You keep thinking this is about proving Superman has killed in the comics which kinda shows how far you're going to ignore and avoid what is actually being talked about. I'll simply say if you think the essence of Superman involves him murdering ppl

I'm not buying any of this WB/DC/Superman victim talk either. That's just you further continuing to deflect front he topic and make this about something else. A person can hate Superman or love him and still discuss what was wrong bout him killing in that fashion and what wrong the message of Superman had no choice cop out especially when in the comics they consistently give him an out for **** like that.

 

[rfx45]

I said I wouldnt reply but I can't resist. Last on the subject I promise.

You are looking for his feats in the comics but you have to get feats he accomplished in the film for it to make sense within the context of the movie argument. You can't just say "well Supes did this and this in the comics so he should in the movie too", they are different worlds. There are differences in the two mediums, both has to be performed in both mediums and to the extent you are saying before you can use it as a valid argument. As an example, not specific to what happened in the movie, if Supes could only use his super vision up to a mile or two then you have to go with that. You can't say dude should be able to use his vision to see a black hole lightyears away just because he did it in the comics. I mean if there is no boundaries then yeah Supes could go fly to his Fortress and get a spare Phantom Zone gun and it all ends there.

And before you say "well you used scans", yes I did but it was to show Supes has killed.


No one said Supes doesn't kill, yes but Osh implied everything they did in the film was wrong and I said all could be tracked to the pages of the comic books including killing and dude just says that was wrong. Back then, Supes killed all the time. It may not be his "essence" now but he did it like it's the norm, that is fact and Osh Kosh is saying it was never. He said it wasn't in context of the books but at some point in the lifetime of Superman, specifically in the Golden Age, it was. Now if he said it isn't in context with medias and publics perception of Superman, then that is fine.



As for the flight, I can say you that you are also reading selectively. Supes could not have flown Zod out of space once he showed up on Earth, that is looking at him on hindsight that you know what will happen. Things were unfolding. I also specifically talked about and focused on the scene where Supes had the headlock on and him snapping his neck and going from that scene. Zod was in complete control of his flight by then.

Within the context of the film though, when they started fighting, that is the only time he could fly him to space and he had a very short window before Zod learned how to fly. It isn't far fetch for Supes to not think of that off the bat. Again in hindsight, as the audience, it's easy to say he could have/should have/would have but if that were you in that situation and split seconds matter and Supes having no experience in battle, it isn't as clear cut on what people would do.


I am not selectively quoting you, the ones I disregard I just don't want to argue with as it has been exhausted or you made a good point on. I'm not going to argue if I agreed on it or thinks it makes sense.


As for the movie could go on and on, that was obviously an exaggeration. Come on now. Who would take that literally? I thought it was obvious it just meant it'll take a long time for the movie the way they set up that ending and with Supes having almost no options left. I mean in the end, you can say "he should paralyze him" but Movie writer (like stupid Goyer) could easily say "Zod can't be paralyzed or Supes wouldn't know how to" then you'd present another option and Goyer could shot that down again and that could continue on for a long time. Like I've said before, their endgame is to have Supes kill Zod and to do it with no other options. They obviously felt there weren't any valid options there and they killed Zod when they did. Others may not feel the same way and could keep creating options but if the writer truly just wants to kill Zod, there is almost nothing you can say where he or other can't counter it with another scenario to deliver the audience Zods death.

I mean is that explanation better?





Ok, now I'm done. No more replies on the subject on my end, I promise.

 

[Master Zik]

I aint about to go back and forth about Superman's MOS abilities just so you can change your tune when he starts displaying his other powers. He didn't explicitly need super vision in the movie so they didn't need to show it. Doesn't mean he didn't have it along with super hearing and smell. If you want to pretend he didn't that's fine. That's just you choosing to ignore the options instead of acting like they couldn't happen like you were doing before.

Everything they did do in the film was pretty wrong as far as portraying Superman whether it was as a noob or not. I'm pretty sure your missing what Osh actually implied but again I'll say not at any point was anybody arguing with you that Superman hasn't killed in the comics. Nobody said it. That wasn't the discussion but you apparently thought it was. It's way more a matter of principle and how he holds himself accountable given his power.

It was quite obvious what they were going for with all the destruction and having him kill Zod in the end. A far cry from Superman. I'll say it again your golden age scans mean nothing in that regard unless you're trying to say MOS was a Superman movie based off of golden age Superman and even then it still failed If they're cherry picking what type of Supes they want to portray then it's no wonder how we got what we got.

It's a bit crazy to me how you're interpreting what I'm saying. I tell you Superman could fly Zod in to space and you go ahead and put your own spin on it to find a specific part in the movie where that wouldn't work when I didn't give any other details other than Supes could've done _____ before Zod could fly. Who said anything about flying him in to space once he showed up? Like where are you getting this from. This is why I say I'm not sure you're following what I'm posting in a comprehendible way fr you to come up with these rebuttal scenarios I did not put forth. It's crazy. When the fight started Zod couldn't fly. Supes could've done everything I said then or one of the options. I'm not looking at anything in hindsight. You're simply not following what I'm saying or choosing to place what I'm saying in to parts of the movie it would not work. For somebody who claims to watched the movie so many times for you to truly think there was no way for Superman to beat sod without killing him is laughable let alone the whole thing about the codex.

Anyway, if we're gonna just blame this on Goyer in the end as far as other ways this could've ended then we can agree there. he didn't now what the **** he was doing or how to frame an actual no win situation. but like I said how they sucked anyway which is why I'm not pretending Superman didn't have any other options. I'm not arguing that you can't come up with bunch of way to kill Zod but just knowing Zod can be killed in the manner he was lets you know there was other ways to avoid that.

As for the should have could have we're not really talking about if it was me but if a person was Superman. If it was me. Before the fight started it would've ended cuz I wouldn't have listened to dumbass Pa Kent. I would've been took over the world. Split seconds don't matter to ppl that can move that fast anyway. If it still comes down to a fight Zod, Faora, and the rest are all back in the negative zone cuz what it comes down to is plot induced stupidity that led Superman to killing Zod without thinking.

 

[KingParappa]

Let me rudely interrupt this discussion with some possible news....




Could thing be the THING?

Looks like stone dude from the planet hulk cartoon movie

His eyes aren't blue enough

 

[CP1708]

Like I realized in the MOS thread, people were gonna hate on that movie no matter what, before they even saw it. They picked at every detail they could, no matter how insignificant. Sad, but it is what it is.

 

[Fresh Like Will]

His eyes aren't blue enough

The brow should be more defined and would it hurt to make him even faintly orange? Other than that I actually think he's kind of cool looking.

 

[rfx45]

 

[Fresh Like Will]

Those 90s practical effects.