NEW YORK METS 2010 SEASON POST: Collins named New Manager

[proshares]

I'm not going to go back and quote and pick things apart but I still disagree and believe trading the youngsters (by which I mean Wright and Reyes) will get the organization back to the top of the division faster than keeping a nucleus of 3 or 4 but that's just my two cents.  You can get back some top MLB ready talent with Reyes and Wright.

But if you do plan to go that route you better hope the front office gets their *@%! together and ponies up money for some FA's.  Jose Lopez would fit good at second.  If Ike still isn't ready, take a one year flyer on someone like Konerko, Overbay or Lee.  Pierzynski is still a viable catching option with some pop left.  Controls a staff very well.

But the players you'd need to push hard for are Crawford, Hawpe, Webb (if he shows his old form again), Cliff Lee, Lowry, Hudson and Matt Cain.

2011 is a deep FA class and of the guys I brought up only Lopez and Cain have a player option for 2011.

Don't let my status as a Yankee fan fool you, I'd love to see the Mets competitive again and in the postseason.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

The fact is Reyes has played like an elite player for 1 season his whole career.  If you really are dying to hold onto a leadoff hitter who doesn't really ever have an obp above .400 well...

 

[d3si]

Come on. You know Reyes isn't 100 healthy. Everyone can tell that. Give him some time. Just be patient. It's only April.. Maine, Perez, and Castillo are worse than Reyes.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by d3simet

Come on. You know Reyes isn't 100 healthy. Everyone can tell that. Give him some time. Just be patient. It's only April.. Maine, Perez, and Castillo are worse than Reyes.

Reyes has been my favorite Met for a while...

Year	Team	G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	K	SB	CS	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
2003	NYM	69	274	47	84	12	4	5	32	13	36	13	3	.307	.334	.434	.769
2004	NYM	53	220	33	56	16	2	2	14	5	31	19	2	.255	.271	.373	.644
2005	NYM	161	696	99	190	24	17	7	58	27	78	60	15	.273	.300	.386	.687
2006	NYM	153	647	122	194	30	17	19	81	53	81	64	17	.300	.354	.487	.841
2007	NYM	160	681	119	191	36	12	12	57	77	78	78	21	.280	.354	.421	.775
2008	NYM	159	688	113	204	37	19	16	68	66	82	56	15	.297	.358	.475	.833
2009	NYM	36	147	18	41	7	2	2	15	18	19	11	2	.279	.355	.395	.750
2010	NYM	4	18	1	4	1	0	0	0	1	6	1	0	.222	.300	.278	.578
Career		795	3371	552	964	163	73	63	325	260	411	302	75	.286	.337	.434	.771

I stand corrected, an elite leadoff hitter who has never had an obp over .360...The fact is he 27, the time for him to show his worth his now.  And for those saying this is a championship caliber squad, if it wasn't in 2006, then how is it now?  We have a 1 good the rest of the guys all suck (Pelf is decent but he's a 4th starter).  This team needs new blood and new energy.  That doesn't work by signing free agents, that works by bring young guys into the organazation who can grow up together.  Baseball is a weird sport but chemistry does matter.  This team isn't going to operate like the Yankees anymore after the Madoff #%!$.  We do have some good young talent in the minors but why not add more?  We could establishan excellent farm system that would develop into a championship quality squad instead of trying to fix something that is obviously broken.

 

[mez 0ne]

Yeah Reyes isnt an elite player in that case, just trade a 27 yr old entering
his prime for a bunch of unprovens, who will bat leadoff then? If you are going to judge Reyes
based on OBP only when his importance and energy goes beyond any of that, then
i don't know what to tell you, you must have short gterm memory from all
that mary jane sir.

 

[ddot7]

I don't know, maybe we can agree to disagree but with cheap owners/management, I don't know that you'll do much better than Wright and Reyes for their price. Money is gonna have to be spent elsewhere and I don't see the point of giving up on Reyes. You look at his 2006-2008 which is when he was healthy and had developed and he's exactly what basically any team would want, no?

We need answers at 1st & 2nd and 2 GOOD starters. If Davis/Carter/Murphy can really be that guy at 1st, great...easiest solution. If Valdes or some other young guy (can't think of the others right now) can take over at 2nd, I don't see how they can be not be an improvement over Castillo. Then it's just a matter of spending some money on pitchers. They ought to be able to after this season and if they're not, I don't think they're committed to winning and being a playoff team at least.

The biggest thing after that is coaching and management.

 

[addictedtofreshkicks]

Nice win today... Pelfrey looked really good...

 

[d3si]

Yeah, nice win.. I haven't given up on Reyes yet. I still have faith in him.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Originally Posted by youngin33

That inning right there is why the Mets are going nowhere fast. Wright at bat with 2 on, no out. Castillo gets caught stealing because Reyes doesn't go on a double steal. Then like the dumb player he is, Reyes goes and gets gunned down at third. And Wright strikes out. That is pathtic baseball and something that needs to be addressed.

Get Reyes off this team, please. His pompous, arrogant play is so tired it's not even funny anymore.

Yeah let's trade Reyes. Let's do that. Please tell me what prospects we're going to bring in that match his ability and play shortstop. Some of you guys are ridiculous. Jose Reyes isn't the problem with this team. It's the pitching plain and simple. Why are you going to trade away a key to your offense when you only need one good pitcher to become a playoff contender? This thread is getting ridiculous with this trade Wright, trade Reyes #$*@$#+$. The only player that you could trade on that offense that won't effect the team in a drastic way is Beltran and that is because we have Fernando Martinez down in the minors who has the potential to be an All Star CF.

Pompous, arrogant play

The guy hasn't been on the field in a year and has cooled his act by miles since 06, but we're still getting on him for being boastful. Please stop talking.

And yeah another thing, who do you want to bat leadoff if we trade Jose? How many players are there in baseball that are capable of batting .300 and stealing 70 bases? How many play a position that isn't currently blocked? Please put an end to these asinine ideas.

 

[rudemiester]

So wait, Reyes steals a few bases a year and all of a sudden he's irreplaceable? NEWSFLASH! Throughout all the stolen bases, triples and hype the Mets still havent been to the playoffs since 2006! Thats 4 years ago! Trading him or any other player with some years as a Met at this point is strictly about rebuilding a franchise that's going nowhere fast.. We're always a few moves behind the curve when it comes to being a successful. We're always a big bat away, a leftfielder away, a decent firstbaseman away, a solid second starter away...It's BS. Like Mez said earlier to get into the playoffs in this league you need two solid starters AT LEAST..If summer comes and they have to move a guy like Reyes to get someone important at the deadline then so be it..This cast of characters hasnt accomplished anything since almost half a decade ago and its way more than time for a change..

Besides, I'm sick of people using the absence of players as a crutch..."when beltran/reyes/delgado/pedro comes back we're in it!" Sike. 23 years and counting.

 

[ddot7]

Ummm...

I can only speak for myself because I've been against the idea of trading Reyes but I don't understand where the Mets not making the playoffs = Reyes should be traded. As if he's the root of the problem or how the "hype" around him caused that. I know we're more than one player away and unless you're trading him for a SS and/or leadoff guy who's as good or better, then you're more than two players away as well.

Reyes has been the catalyst for the offense. He wasn't healthy last year but half of the damn team wasn't. So we sucked. He didn't even have a real Spring Training, so now people are flipping out over what's a terrible start and somehow associating him with the problem? I don't get it. When Jose's healthy, he's exactly what we need him to be. 2007 & 2008 had more to do with pitching and the bullpen, right? Other than the Phillies just outplaying us down the stretch in general.

If management isn't willing to either pay the money at this point or just make better decisions as a whole, we won't get better. I don't think including Jose in a trade would be a good decision, that's my opinion. We're stuck with stupid moves like Ollie's $12m and Castillo's $6-8m, whatever that isn't it's about $6-8m too much. If their contracts were gone, that's two solid pitchers or one stud that we could have and would help like crazy. Not that everything would be solved, but we'd be in much better shape, IMO. Getting rid of those two alone would be addition by subtraction.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Jose could have batted .097 in September of 07 and 08 and with a real bullpen we would have been in the playoffs. I do not see where you people are placing the blame on him. He is far from the problem of this ball club. I really don't get how you can look so negatively upon him when the main reason we didn't win in 07 and 08 (and so far this year) is because of our weak pitching staff.

And I don't even know why half of you are ready to drink cyanide. This team isn't going to lose 90 games like it did last year. Of course it won't win 90 games either, but that doesn't rationalize your calls for implosion.

 

[mez 0ne]

So much over-reacting in this thread, jesus.

This aiint the same team as 07-08'....funny thing is the starts have been average and not that terrible, average enough to win. Bats are just off to a slow start and that will turn around.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

At the end of the day, it's early in the season.  I feel one way about the team right now even after the great win today but I am willing to wait to June to really see what the deal with this team is though.  And Reyes has hit .300 once in his career and still have never developed the discipline a leadoff hitter should have.  The core of this team needs to be shaken up somehow.  When you have had the repated letdowns and failure year after year that this team has had, that type of negativity can take on its own aura especially in baseball.

On a positive note though, Frenchie is the goods

Look forward to seeing him in blue and orange for a long time.  Even personality wise love the guy, he came in here since last season excited to be on this team, love to see him getting back to what people though he once could be.

 

[ddot7]

You don't think with a core of Wright, Reyes, Bay, Frenchy looks it so far...that's not solid offensively? Two of those guys weren't part of issues we've had in the past. Sure, a lot needs to change, I just don't think the core is the problem.

Bullpen SHOULD be fine, we'll see. If Santana's himself, Pelfrey looks like he should, Niese can be serviceable...I think we've got the basics in place but there's no doubt we need to improve some areas to keep up with the Joneses. Let's be real, we want to be what the Phillies and Yankees are.

I feel like I'm gonna start repeating myself even more, so that's what I think and I'm sticking to it. Just look at our team compared to legit playoff contenders and we all knew this wouldn't be a great year. A !%***! first 9 games isn't gonna change what I've felt needs to be different from the start.

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

And yeah another thing, who do you want to bat leadoff if we trade Jose?

But yet Jerry (or Omar) is STILL contemplating dropping him in the lineup. So really, what's the difference if we trade him or if we drop him to 3? Either way, he wouldn't be batting leadoff right?

Originally Posted by Rudemiester

Sowait, Reyes steals a few bases a year and all of a sudden he'sirreplaceable? NEWSFLASH! Throughout all the stolen bases, triples andhype the Mets still havent been to the playoffs since 2006! Thats 4years ago! Trading him or any other player with some years as a Met atthis point is strictly about rebuilding a franchise that's goingnowhere fast.. We're always a few moves behind the curve when it comesto being a successful. We're always a big bat away, a leftfielder away,a decent firstbaseman away, a solid second starter away...It's BS. LikeMez said earlier to get into the playoffs in this league you need twosolid starters AT LEAST..If summer comes and they have to move a guylike Reyes to get someone important at the deadline then so be it..Thiscast of characters hasnt accomplished anything since almost half adecade ago and its way more than time for a change..

Besides, I'm sick of people using the absence of players as acrutch..."when beltran/reyes/delgado/pedro comes back we're in it!"Sike. 23 years and counting.

Yep!
I agree with the entire post. But especially the underlined.

Look, no one is putting the entire blame on Reyes. (At least not me).

All I'm saying is if the team falls too far out of contention, then it's time to look at other options.

 

[holdupstop23]

Did someone call this team "championship caliber"?

BTW, i'm against trading Jose.

 

[proshares]

who will bat leadoff then?


You go FA to Crawford.  Solving your LF/RF issue and getting another leadoff man w/more power than Reyes.  Thinking about it now, I don't think you'd need to move Beltran to the corners if he's kept either.  Granted his arm may not be suited for RF but the thing I like about Citi is that the corners aren't spacious like say Yankee Stadium is in left or how Fenway is in right.  I think an OF of Bay, Crawford and Beltran would be fantastic.

you must have short gterm memory from all that mary jane sir.

That's not very nice.

If you are going to judge Reyes based on OBP only when his importance and energy goes beyond any of that, then i don't know what to tell you


Look at the opposite end of that though.  When he struggles, and he has had his shares of struggles at times when they needed him, that whole team falls apart.  Gonna look at the good gotta take the bad in with it too.

Jose Reyes isn't the problem with this team. It's the pitching plain and simple.

Suggesting trading Reyes is not suggesting that he is a problem.  Pitching is your problem, Reyes may be the answer to getting you some pitching along with some depth.  You can easily get a team like the Blue Jays for example to send you a package of Marcum, Zach Stewart and Henderson Alvarez and on the FA market go out and give $7 to $8 million to Felipe Lopez.  Same defense, good speed and good power.  Or even better if you turn to a team like the Orioles with either Reyes or Wright and get back any combination of Brian Matusz, Jake Arrieta, Zach Britton, Josh Bell or Brandon Erbe.  These are major league ready players.  If you can turn down any of those trades for one of those players well then I don't know what to say to you.

You want pitching and the ability to replace Reyes and/or Wright if you do happen to deal them, your ownership needs to grow some nads and dole out some sort of cash for the free agents that would fit in your team.

The only player that you could trade on that offense that won't effect the team in a drastic way is Beltran and that is because we have Fernando Martinez down in the minors who has the potential to be an All Star CF.


I'm sorry but I don't buy that at all.  Fernando Martinez will never sniff the production Beltran has put out in his prime or will put out when he comes back from the DL.

As if he's the root of the problem or how the "hype" around him caused that. I know we're more than one player away and unless you're trading him for a SS and/or leadoff guy who's as good or better, then you're more than two players away as well.

I'm just saying, he can be replaced by a guy like Crawford in the lineup and Lopez on the defensive side.  He's never been the root of the problem but he's just the one guy maybe outside of Wright that you will get the most stock for in a trade.

If management isn't willing to either pay the money at this point or just make better decisions as a whole, we won't get better.


Exactly.

I'm not saying I'm right in any of what I'm suggesting, I'm just putting out there how I'd be doing things.

Trying to be as diplomatic as possible

.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

You know damn well the Yankees are going to sign Carl Crawford. And the corners are not an issue. Bay is going to give you 35 and 100 and Frenchie is going to put up pretty decent numbers that won't affect the club negatively when everybody else is going. He's too good of a clubhouse guy at this point to give him the boot, especially with how weak the clubhouse has been the past few years.

Orioles are not trading away their young prospects for Jose Reyes. They're in no position to make a move like that in their division. They know damn well the only way to win is follow in the Rays footsteps and put together a good squad from the ground up and sign a free agent or two. Getting Jose Reyes would be counterproductive for them.

I don't want Felipe Lopez. The guy seems like he's not a good character with all the teams he's been on. This team doesn't need anymore loners.

I agree with you that Martinez won't be a guy capable of putting up 40 and 100 like Beltran is, but he's no slouch either. 25 and 100 is doable, and that would be sufficient. Now, if you want to say he's too unreliable an option because of his durability, then you have a more than fair point. Fact of the matter is, if it was up to me I'd trade Beltran get a good pitcher or two that is major league or near major league ready and then bring Martinez up to play CF or I package Martinez and try and make a play for Grady Sizemore. And if that doesn't work, then I outbid the Yankees for Crawford, but, that's not very realistic from what the Wiplon's have proved with this past off-season. But you never know, teams change their mindset and approach after losing for a long time. Just look at St. John's, they went from being stingy and refusing to spend any excess money to practically rebuilding their image.

I would love to see Matsuz on this team, by the way, but I just don't see the Orioles, nor do I think it's a wise move, trading him away for Jose Reyes. Now, if it was the Red Sox and Casey Kelly's name came into play, that wouldn't surprise me. I don't think they have much else down in the farm that's ready at this point, though, to make that trade.

 

[proshares]

I wouldn't be so sure about the Yankees picking up Crawford.  Rumors have already started coming out that if they go deep into the playoffs again Cashman would be hesitant to pick up another OFer and lose (most likely) Swisher when they just traded for Granderson who is a bit slower than Crawford but puts up better power numbers and if already excelling in that park.

Orioles have traded away prospects for far less in the past.  And besides, those are just the MLB ready or on the cusp of being ready players.  They have a good amount more who will be in AAA next season that could pan out to be better than those they have now.  They have an aging SS and 3B in Tejada and Mora respectively.  And with the pressure being put on them by their fans they may wanna put a face to the franchise and show they're willing to compete now with a Reyes to get on base before Roberts, Jones, Markakis and Weiters come up to bat.  Or a Wright to complement the young power bats.

Lopez I guess you're right but there are a good amount of decent (not great) FA's in Guzman, Izturis, Peralta, Rollins and Punto.  (See the one name I purposely left out

).

I agree with you on Fernando and if you can package him for Sizemore that'll be a great move for that franchise.

If you can get the Sox to package any of Westmoreland, Kelly, Reddick, Anderson, Tazawa or Wilson for Reyes or Wright those would be solid moves too.  You know how they haven't had a solid SS since Cabrera and Lowell is broken down.  Don't forget, you may be able to steal away Buchholz in a move too.

It's going to be interesting to see how the Mets handle this season and going forward.

 

[ddot7]

Minor point...Mora's on the Rockies, we just played them.

I love the trade packages that people put together in their minds.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

I see what you're saying with the O's, I think it would be a bad move to go after Reyes when you could try and throw money at Rollins, whom is around the same level as Reyes as a player. I'm not all that familiar with the Red Sox farm, but if they'd give us Kelly and Bucholtz for Reyes I'd strongly consider it, and maybe pull the trigger. I just have a hard time trading him when looking at how weak the SS position is in baseball. I wouldn't want any of those guys you named on my team, except for maybe the guy you didn't name

I really think the best way for this team to go is moving Beltran and trying to make a play for Crawford, Sizemore or believing that Martinez could pay 140 games a year.

 

[proshares]

Originally Posted by ddot7

Minor point...Mora's on the Rockies, we just played them.

I love the trade packages that people put together in their minds.

   Ah, did not know that.  Also, not really putting together packages that wouldn't be considered or work out for both teams.  For the most part, I'm with you guys on keeping Reyes and Wright but you always gotta look at the other side of the coin.

Rollins isn't the OBP machine he is but I get your drift on that one.  Sizemore is gonna be the one you're going to have to outbid us for.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

My viewed is skewed on Rollins because he's a Phillie and they could all step on rusty nails for all I care, so take that into consideration any time I speak about him, even though I try to be as unbiased as possible.

And I would gladly let the Yankees have Sizemore if it means we have Carl Crawford roaming Center Field. I prefer him at this point in their careers, mostly because having him behind Jose would be one of the most dynamic one two punches in baseball.

 

[d5]

Everyone gave up on this game already?

Ollie actually pitched good tonight against a very tough cards team.  Very good to see.

EDIT.  As soon as I post this bullpen gives up a grand slam. 

sucks for Ollie