**NBA FINALS THREAD - RAPTORS DEFY GRAVITY**

[MVP]

Kidd is trash but they have a huge roster turnover. Biggest indictment on Kidd is his usage of Giannis and not playing Brogdon and Bledsoe together

I thought Kidd was the one to unlock Giannis as the point forward?

 

[everysingletime]

That's not what I'm saying though. Most of the Bucks 3's come from open looks or at least ball movement to get a better shot. Harden dribbles forever and shoots contested 3's. It's a difference. And I can't even put that on MDA cuz when he was in Phoenix they would run their offense through Diaw at times. They had good ball movement. Harden is terrible at moving w/o the ball so everything he puts up is with a hand in his face.


Saying "Milwaukee basically plays the exact same way, except they have more length and even more shooters." is really sugar coating the Rockets flaws because they don't play the exact same way.

Yea. I think the 'rockets and bucks play the same way. The bucks are just better at it' is a bad take.

 

[second2nonee]

That's not what I'm saying though. Most of the Bucks 3's come from open looks or at least ball movement to get a better shot. Harden dribbles forever and shoots contested 3's. It's a difference. And I can't even put that on MDA cuz when he was in Phoenix they would run their offense through Diaw at times. They had good ball movement. Harden is terrible at moving w/o the ball so everything he puts up is with a hand in his face.


Saying "Milwaukee basically plays the exact same way, except they have more length and even more shooters." is really sugar coating the Rockets flaws because they don't play the exact same way.

There's legitimately little reason to continue this discussion with you.

1. You're inflating Harden shooting contested 3's with the rest of the team not getting open looks. If only there was a stat for that.
2. Rockets average the most open 3's per game in the regular season and the playoffs. And they're top 5 in the wide open 3's range in the regular season and playoffs. Bucks are #2. Put together, they are extremely similar and nearly identical in how many open and wide open 3's they generate per game. Ball movement is different but at the end of the day the efficient shot selection is still being created. Isn't that what I was getting at just now?
3. Their "style of play" is different but the strategy is the same. Milwaukee just has better personnel.
4. Keep this same energy if the Bucks and Giannis come up short then. You're extremely confident yet I don't even know if you're confident enough to pick them to win.

 

[second2nonee]

Yea. I think the 'rockets and bucks play the same way. The bucks are just better at it' is a bad take.

You can't read. Scheme is not the same as style. Generating open 3's and getting to the FT line is the same scheme. How they get those would be a diff style.

Idc tho

 

[moderndarwin]

Rockets lose because of Hardens playing style. Nothing complicated about it. Over the course of multiple games a team that takes contested shots and plays gimmick defense without helping usually will lose to the team with better principles. Same with Lebron. However, it’s a testament to their greatness that they still can/will win it all occasionally. It’s the exact same reason that Lebron has lost so many times to team ball. Over the course of a long series it’s simly the better style of hoops.

It is truly what makes Curry unique. His style of play and movement creates oppprtunity for other players in a way that I’ve seen only Nash do in the modern era. The Lebron / Harden stand in corners and take shots sort of game is simply not as effective offensively. You are taking the most talented players in the world and making them into ball watchers. There’s a reason someone like Looney is amazing on the Warriors and would be dogshizz on the Rockets. Same reason Montrizz Harrell was useless on the Rockets and Hood was useless on Cleveland (tho Hood much less so mostly his fault).

And it’s also why Warriors are better over a period of time with CUrry as the engine instead of Durant. The caveat to this is time. Curry is better over the course of time but for a single game it’s variable. He may or may not be able to fullly control the game the way a Lebron/Durant/Harden can. They basically can singlehandededly decide the outcome because of their wrecking ball style of play. Curry has to fully rely on team dynamics and if he becomes passive he almost turns into a non factor (except gravity).

I’d put it like this - if you build the right team around each of these franchise players and held all other factors equal this is how I’d expect the chips to go over a 10 year period of “prime/everyone stays healthy”. Obviously making a lot of luck and assumptions here but this is how I perceive these players in terms of ability to lead teams to a chip.

Jordan: 7
Lebron: 5
Curry: 5
Kobe/Shaq: 5
Larry: 4
Duncan: 4
Magic: 3
Hakeem: 3
Durant: 2
Wade: 2
Charles: 2
Harden: 1
Malone: 1
Dirk: 1

Plenty of people I left off obviously on this list but listed some other examples for fun.

 

[everysingletime]

Milwaukee has the same issue Portland has, they drop their bigs. If they can find a way to effectively defend the Curry ball screen and the relocation screens they should be Gucci

Game 1 goes to golden state.

Well. For one thing. I think the bucks might have to play small. With Giannis at the 5 or something (on defense). Idk if they've ever done that.

 

[antidope]

 

[FreshLeeLA]

Surprised to see the confidence everyone is taking for MIL>GSW in the finals, or is it the hate for GSW

There would be nothing more gratifying to see GSW lose in the finals (would be similar joy to when Pistons beat the Lakers) but I still don’t see this year.

MIL is a great team but they’re not being known as a historic team on either side of the floor. In order to beat GSW, you need to have an all-time great offense or defense and the Bucks ain’t that yet. When Giannis develops that 3-shot, then Bucks could elevate to an all-time great offense.

I really hope I’m wrong...

 

[second2nonee]

Surprised to see the confidence everyone is taking for MIL>GSW in the finals, or is it the hate for GSW

There would be nothing more gratifying to see GSW lose in the finals (would be similar joy to when Pistons beat the Lakers) but I still don’t see this year.

MIL is a great team but they’re not being known as a historic team on either side of the floor. In order to beat GSW, you need to have an all-time great offense or defense and the Bucks ain’t that yet. When Giannis develops that 3-shot, then Bucks could elevate to an all-time great offense.

I really hope I’m wrong...

They are pretty historical in almost every advanced stat

 

[MajinZuub]

Yea. I think the 'rockets and bucks play the same way. The bucks are just better at it' is a bad take.

Not at all

 

[everysingletime]

As things should be.

*edit

Welps. Doesn't show the poll results lol

But basically twitter agrees its Giannis in a landslide

 

[second2nonee]

As things should be.

*edit

Welps. Doesn't show the poll results lol

But basically twitter agrees its Giannis in a landslide

Damn near everyone has said Giannis is the MVP for a long time now

 

[addict4sneakers]

it’s wild to me that 11 games into the playoffs, people still think Giannis future success hinges on him needing a 3 point shot when he’s a) making 1 three a game and b) like anyone has figured out how to make him take more jumpers than he wants to take.

 

[QU!K]

It’s not the same team though. They replaced Shabazz Muhammad, Jabari, JET, John Henson and took snell out of the rotation. They got certified shooters taking those minutes and George Hill.


Kidd ain’t it, Bud is but the front office made great moves.

Also Lopez, Mirotic, Gasol if he didn’t get injured were great additioned.

Out GM’ed Masai and the Raptors

 

[goldmember]

Morey really tweeted that?

Man, shut the hell up!

 

[amitt5504]

Rockets lose because of Hardens playing style. Nothing complicated about it. Over the course of multiple games a team that takes contested shots and plays gimmick defense without helping usually will lose to the team with better principles. Same with Lebron. However, it’s a testament to their greatness that they still can/will win it all occasionally. It’s the exact same reason that Lebron has lost so many times to team ball. Over the course of a long series it’s simly the better style of hoops.

It is truly what makes Curry unique. His style of play and movement creates oppprtunity for other players in a way that I’ve seen only Nash do in the modern era. The Lebron / Harden stand in corners and take shots sort of game is simply not as effective offensively. You are taking the most talented players in the world and making them into ball watchers. There’s a reason someone like Looney is amazing on the Warriors and would be dogshizz on the Rockets. Same reason Montrizz Harrell was useless on the Rockets and Hood was useless on Cleveland (tho Hood much less so mostly his fault).

And it’s also why Warriors are better over a period of time with CUrry as the engine instead of Durant. The caveat to this is time. Curry is better over the course of time but for a single game it’s variable. He may or may not be able to fullly control the game the way a Lebron/Durant/Harden can. They basically can singlehandededly decide the outcome because of their wrecking ball style of play. Curry has to fully rely on team dynamics and if he becomes passive he almost turns into a non factor (except gravity).

I’d put it like this - if you build the right team around each of these franchise players and held all other factors equal this is how I’d expect the chips to go over a 10 year period of “prime/everyone stays healthy”. Obviously making a lot of luck and assumptions here but this is how I perceive these players in terms of ability to lead teams to a chip.

Jordan: 7
Lebron: 5
Curry: 5
Kobe/Shaq: 5
Larry: 4
Duncan: 4
Magic: 3
Hakeem: 3
Durant: 2
Wade: 2
Charles: 2
Harden: 1
Malone: 1
Dirk: 1

Plenty of people I left off obviously on this list but listed some other examples for fun.

I’m not reading all this. Need the cliffs

 

[100027]

it’s wild to me that 11 games into the playoffs, people still think Giannis future success hinges on him needing a 3 point shot when he’s a) making 1 three a game and b) like anyone has figured out how to make him take more jumpers than he wants to take.

Thing is he doesn't need one, but I have a feeling he's still going to have one in 2-3 years.

 

[goldmember]

I’m not reading all this. Need the cliffs

Harden ain't it, curry goat teammate

 

[B Sox]

Giannis is already starting to show that he can hit the wide open 3 at a pretty good clip. I don't think he's ever going to need to just be a normal rhythm 3 pt shooter though with how defenses need to sag off him because of his threat to blow by.

 

[goldmember]

I mean Giannis is really doing the " the 3 is like a layup to him "... Literally the way he takes off from the 3pt line

 

[dman14]

one dribble and giannis goes from 3pt to the paint
surprised he hasn't started posting guys from the arch and backing them down

 

[hand2handking]

KD gonna son giannis

 

[vidiviciun]

Mane I cant wait for tonight. Charcoal grilling boneless chicken thighs on the Weber, slow cooking some of mama's stuffing & cooking some veggie medley. Sipping on Heinken and Hennessy. Gonna watch the Dubs win another game without KD. Then get my mank loved by my wifeyboo. #LifeIsGood

#DubsIn4 ​

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

There was a play down the stretch in game 1 when the game was tight where Giannis had a wide open 3 and he clearly had no confidence to shoot it. That's the difference between the numbers and real life. Once he gets comfortable with that you're gonna need your rosary

 

[freeze]

Lol