**NBA FINALS THREAD - RAPTORS DEFY GRAVITY**

[DCAllAfrican]

Did you actually watch the game?

I am of the camp that it is hard to determine what we are seeing is due to what a coach is doing vs. what the players are doing.

I just don't like running off and blaming coaches when players are the primary line of defense (no pun) during a game.

Harden: I consider a CHOKE a complete no-show. That didn't happen

First of all the rockets were down 2-0 and the series is over if they lose either of those games and he brought them back into the series with Eric damn Gordon. We only use him choking when it fits

In general though for me, people conflate mistakes, missed shots, and turnovers with choking. EYE didn’t see him choke at all, he just wasn’t perfect.

Thanks for preaching that.

Choking is one of the most overused words used by fans.

 

[lamekilla]

1 shot in the last 8 minutes of a critical game where the other team is missing their best player isn't choking? 4 turnovers in the 4th quarter of an elimination game at home isn't choking?

When the pressure was on and expectations were at their highest, he folded. You can't dispute that.

This is a pattern that's 7 years and counting.

 

[Air Pope]

Something something, lucky shot, something something

 

[P C H]

1 shot in the last 8 minutes of a critical game where the other team is missing their best player isn't choking? 4 turnovers in the 4th quarter of an elimination game at home isn't choking?

When the pressure was on and expectations were at their highest, he folded. You can't dispute that.

Was the pressure on in games 3&4? You saying he went from someone who not a choker to someone who is in the span of a game? Come on man this silly lol

Were the rockets not scoring in game 5 post KD?

Turnovers happen when you’re playing basketball. That doesn’t inherently mean he choked. Idk man y’all got it

 

[moe200069]

Reason being is that I can see Steph handling the offense by playing the point, assisting and running an offense, which even allows KD to do his thing. I think that it was proven with and without KD in the playoffs. I think that it is easier for Steph to turn his scorer off and on, than it is for KD.

I agree with everything with the exception of the last statement. Current playoffs showing us that KD can really say “**** it” and become a one-man offense at any time and any where he wants. Size, speed, handle, shot making, turn arounds off one foot and midrange game, can elevate at the rim...he’s real life “create a player”

I’m a steph homer but my dude has shown that he can disappear for long stretches even while hunting for his shot. I’ll give him props though, that man shoots every shot like he made the last 100. Supreme confidence

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

In general though for me, people conflate mistakes, missed shots, and turnovers with choking.

Ummmmm...

 

[Air Pope]

First of all the rockets were down 2-0 and the series is over if they lose either of those games and he brought them back into the series with Eric damn Gordon. We only use him choking when it fits

In general though for me, people conflate mistakes, missed shots, and turnovers with choking. EYE didn’t see him choke at all, he just wasn’t perfect.

I agree in a sense. There’s a very small margin or error against the Warriors that is difficult to overcome. But on the flip side, when things happen in a pattern, then it has to be addressed. But I do agree w/ you

 

[addict4sneakers]

I agree with everything with the exception of the last statement. Current playoffs showing us that KD can really say “**** it” and become a one-man offense at any time and any where he wants. Size, speed, handle, shot making, turn arounds off one foot and midrange game, can elevate at the rim...he’s real life “create a player”

I’m a steph homer but my dude has shown that he can disappear for long stretches even while hunting for his shot. I’ll give him props though, that man shoots every shot like he made the last 100. Supreme confidence

Steph just did all of that in game 6 doe

 

[KHUFU]

Yea because he isn't AS great of a scorer.

So of course he can "turn it off" more easily than KD.

He may not be as great of a scorer due to options, due to KD's height and skill to use that height. However, I do not think that it makes Steph any less effective though. Both need to be paid attention once they cross half court. With his skill running an offense, I'd even argue that Steph needs even more attention defensively once the ball is in bounds, end to end. Both are great players, but I'd take Steph in my locker room first over KD, if I am assembling a team with superstar egos as the Warriors are constructed, or any team for that matter. I do not know if KD is a calm presence, as Steph seems to be.

 

[P C H]

I am of the camp that it is hard to determine what we are seeing is due to what a coach is doing vs. what the players are doing.

I just don't like running off and blaming coaches when players are the primary line of defense (no pun) during a game.

Harden: I consider a CHOKE a complete no-show. That didn't happen

We are fans. The vast majority of us don’t know what sets teams are running and we damn sure don’t know what’s going on in the locker room beyond cliche sound bites

Criticism of coaching in a star driven sport like basketball is dumb as hellllll

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Was the pressure on in games 3&4? You saying he went from someone who not a choker to someone who is in the span of a game? Come on man this silly lol

Were the rockets not scoring in game 5 post KD?

Turnovers happen when you’re playing basketball. That doesn’t inherently mean he choked. Idk man y’all got it

People treat labels/titles like Power Rankings man.

Someone can be one thing in Week 7, but in Week 13, they are completely different.

The same way Steph was mentally broken and lost a week ago and now all of a sudden he is cured.

It is amazing how people pick and decide which instances/data points they are willing to accept to confirm their current bias.

 

[everysingletime]

Y'all really just live in this NT bubble and think that it's just Lakers fans that tell the truth about Harden. It's really the blog boys that have to look in the mirror to finally realize the truth. TS% be dammed.

I'm not a laker fan and I'd tell anyone that harden is not built for the playoffs

 

[MVP]

Was the pressure on in games 3&4? You saying he went from someone who not a choker to someone who is in the span of a game? Come on man this silly lol

Were the rockets not scoring in game 5 post KD?

Turnovers happen when you’re playing basketball. That doesn’t inherently mean he choked. Idk man y’all got it

No he's been a choker in the playoffs since that 2012 finals. There's a pattern, we been telling y'all for years. Game 3 & 4 were an anomaly we kept saying his true self would come to the surface at the worst time and like clockwork it happened.

He once again was a lesser version of regular season James Harden. I have him props for the game 4 he was great I was surprised he did it cause that's not been his MO.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

We are fans. The vast majority of us don’t know what sets teams are running and we damn sure don’t know what’s going on in the locker room beyond cliche sound bites

Criticism of coaching in a star driven sport like basketball is dumb as hellllll

Yes, it is. What the hell do we know?

Reminds me of: https://niketalk.com/threads/i-wish...is-isnt-a-good-coach-none-of-you-know.513758/

 

[dacomeup]

We've known who MDA is since Phoenix. This ain't breaking news. He's a offensive coordinator.

And Harden fits perfect with him. He only cares about getting stats just like MDA. No effort on defense, MDA doesn't care about defense. Harden gets exposed in the playoffs, MDA's coaching style gets exposed in the playoffs.

They're a great fit.

Fresh out the barber chair?

 

[lamekilla]

What’s going through Elton Brand’s head right now

 

[P C H]

I agree in a sense. There’s a very small margin or error against the Warriors that is difficult to overcome. But on the flip side, when things happen in a pattern, then it has to be addressed. But I do agree w/ you

But what pattern though? I’ve said it before this is not like Harden has NEVER come through

They were down 3-1 to the clippers and he had an elite game 5, game 7 to bring them back

The series against the spurs when he was with okc,

This is what I’m saying man just picking and choosing

 

[HIM]

The whole “I hate harden crowd but Steph needs moar health” guys are funny to me. All y’all.

Couldn’t hear you over Harden dribbling

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Still waiting on an answer as to how Harden CHOKED.

That word gets overused man.

You can go back and forth all day about whether or not choked but given his terrible reputation he's under the microscope. That's what happens when you supposed to be this all time great, MVP, unstoppable player.


Regular season Harden shoots 44/36

Playoff Harden shoots 41/32


So maybe he did or didn't choke against GS but fact is his game falls off a cliff every postseason so he's gonna catch the criticism.

 

[KHUFU]

I agree with everything with the exception of the last statement. Current playoffs showing us that KD can really say “**** it” and become a one-man offense at any time and any where he wants. Size, speed, handle, shot making, turn arounds off one foot and midrange game, can elevate at the rim...he’s real life “create a player”

I’m a steph homer but my dude has shown that he can disappear for long stretches even while hunting for his shot. I’ll give him props though, that man shoots every shot like he made the last 100. Supreme confidence

I am no Steph homer lol, because my beef with Steph has to do with his defense. My thing is that I think that he may be a better locker room presence, more of a team player than KD. Because Steph is who he is, I think that he is the reason why the locker room can remain somewhat unified during this run.

 

[QU!K]

I mean...they were the heavy favourites coming into the series. They were the #2 seed, they had the best player, before this series, they had the better coach, they have more chemistry, I can go on. Oh yeah, and they also won. lol

You're picking a team of

Washed Lowry
Kawhi
Siakam
Washed Marc Gasol
Washed Ibaka
Danny Green
FVV

over

Simmons
Butler
Embiid
Tobias Harris
JJ Reddick
James Ennis
Mike Scott

?

 

[P C H]

can’t call someone a choker then put blindfolds on when he doesn’t choke then go back to the choker label when it fits

That’s EXACTLY what happens with harden

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I am no Steph homer lol, because my beef with Steph has to do with his defense. My thing is that I think that he may be a better locker room presence, more of a team player than KD. Because Steph is who he is, I think that he is the reason why the locker room can remain somewhat unified during this run.

Come on man

 

[MVP]

can’t call someone a choker then put blindfolds on when he doesn’t choke then go back to the choker label when it fits

That’s EXACTLY what happens with harden

You got it twisted. The choker label is the default for Harden in the playoffs and CP0 to a lesser extent, when they actually come through in pressure moments it's a surprise.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

You can go back and forth all day about whether or not choked but given his terrible reputation he's under the microscope. That's what happens when you supposed to be this all time great, MVP, unstoppable player.


Regular season Harden shoots 44/36

Playoff Harden shoots 41/32


So maybe he did or didn't choke against GS but fact is his game falls off a cliff every postseason so he's gonna catch the criticism.

So was he a choker in the games in which he COOKED this playoffs?

I