Lebron James Is Ruining The Game For The Average Fan

He played a great game and came through when it mattered, but I can't pretend like that wasn't a wack buzzer beater. :lol: George totally over played it and the lane was wide *** open. Obviously if I were a heat fan I wouldn't care how it went down, but as far as game winning shots go it was really pedestrian/not very dramatic.
 
Mister Friendly said:
:lol: Bravo XTAPOLAPACETL


There you go ......You want to bring up the the Jordan vs David Robinson thing but not address whole thing I see you...lol

Your original statement was the Robinson was more deserving of the 1996 NBA MVP than Jordan. OK? :rolleyes

The crux of your argument was that the Spurs were so horrible in 1997 when the Robinson was out, while the 1994 Bulls were still a playoff team.
I told you the situations were different. 1997 Spurs lost Robinson during the season. They also lost 1996 All Star Elliott too. They also lost Chuck Person but I didn't mention him because Wilkins essentially was an upgrade to him. They were an older team so they couldn't trade for slight upgrades to their rotation like the 1994 Bulls did.

The 1994 Bulls while they lost Jordan, they picked up 4 upgrades pieces to their rotation plus MJ's "replacement" in Pete Myers. all those guys produced 48 PPG to offset the 51 PPG Jordan and the guys they replaced produced during 1993

Then I brought up the fact that Bulls were 22-47 when Jordan missed games over the course of his Bulls career. You discounted this, even though if you project Jordan playing those games, he missed they jump to the 6th seed and probably make the 2nd round because could have of avoided playing the eventually champion 1986 Celtics.

Then for some reason you brought up the Spurs going 5-9 when Robinson was out with a broken hand during 1992 season. I addressed this, Robinson missed those games but Willie Anderson who was a starter missed those games too. You don't remember Willie Anderson? Well I'm a Spurs fan and I do. Was Willie Anderson equal to David Robinson? Hell no! But when you lose an All Star, any help will do. If Willie Anderson is in the Spurs lineup maybe they win 2 more games in Robinson's absence to be 7-7 instead of 5-9. The 1992 Spurs were 3-3 with Anderson in the lineup without Robinson. I don't know.....who cares anyways they weren't going deep into the playoffs anyways. I'm a Spurs fan and I watched David Robinson play for many years. Your argument that David Robinson is anywhere close to Jordan in terms of value to a team is flat out foolish.

Now to this

So no player was ever led his team in points, rebounds and assists will good surrounding players? :lol:

Chris Webber did it in 2002-03 with All Star Peja Stojakovic, Mike Bibby and Bobby Jackson.

Kevin Garnett led his team in points, rebounds, assists, blocks and steals in 2003 with Wally Szczerbiak. Was Wally an all-time great? No...But he was an All Star the previous season.

But those teams probably aren't stacked enough for you because they only featured one supporting All Star and a couple good players. So here are some better teams.

Bill Walton led his team in points, rebounds and assists and blocks in 1978 while collecting the 1978 NBA MVP. A team that was the reigning champion won 58 games a team that had All-NBA Maurice Lucas and All star Lionel Hollins.

Wilt Chamberlain led his team in points, rebounds, assists by significant margins in 1966,1967 and 1968. He would've led the league in blocks too if that was a recorded stat back then. He played with HOFers Hal Greer, Chet Walker, Billy Cunningham. Its thats not a stacked team, I don't know what is.

But I know you're going to want a more modern team that was stacked. Ok so here's one.

Larry Bird led on the 1986 BOston Celtics in points, rebounds, assists and steals. The 1986 Boston Celtics is widely guarded as the best team outside of the 1996 Bulls and 1972 Lakers. Dont believe me go look it up. Larry Bird accomplished that feat with Kevin McHale(HOF)Robert Parish(HOF)Dennis Johnson(HOF)and Danny Ainge. I shouldn't mention Danny Ainge because he wasn't in those other guys class but he was still an All Star level player.
Should I mention Bill Walton(HOF) who won the NBA Sixth Man of the Year, that year too? Nah he was kinda done at that point anyways but he was still good enough to give you 14 PPG, 12 RPG, 4APG and 2.5 BLKS per 36 minutes.

Mchale,Parish and Johnson weren't just names at that point either. They were All-NBA/All Star/All Defensive team level players. Larry Bird led those guys in points, rebounds, assists and steals. Not to mention all while basically being a 40/50/90 guy.

So what's my point Lebron isn't the only great player to achieve that accomplishment even with a stacked team. Stop acting like he revolutionized the game


So no historically great team has been at the bottom of the stat standing in important category? :lol:


The 2011 Mavericks were 23rd in steals, 24th blocks.
The 2006 Heat were 29th in free throw % and dead last in steals too. But lets be honest those aren't historically great teams. Both those of teams basically won the championship off gifts from the other teams star player(Lebron and Dirk respectively) So lets get to the historically great teams that were bad at an important stat.


The Back to Back Pistons were dead last in steals both years they won the championship. Which means they can't get the ball from the other team, thats a very important part of the game if you didn't know that. They were dead last in steals all the while being a muddling team in protecting the ball themselves, they finished 15th and 20th in turnovers out a 25 and 27 league team.


The 1986 Boston Celtics were 21st out of 23 NBA teams in free throw attempts. Thats an important part of the game, you know getting to the line ask D Wade. Not to mention they were 22nd in the NBA in committing the most personal fouls. You know mean to tell me they were horrible in getting to the free throw line but yet they fouled all the time? Wow. They were woeful on the offensive boards too. Ranked 22nd in that category. Despite all that they are an historically great team.

The 1985 Lakers were horrible at getting to the free throw line too,they ranked 21st.

the 1983 76ers were horrible in assists, they ranked 19th out of 23 teams. I don't know what that means....I guess Moses was dribbling down on the block too much:lol: All I know is, that you deem assists as very important category since you always bring up in regards to Lebron.

The 1982 Lakers were historically bad from the 3 point line but this is common knowledge if you follow the NBA at all, but I'm going to give that a pass since the 3 point shot was a relatively new weapon and why shoot threes when you have arguably the greatest player of all time on the block in Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Pat Riley is a great coach.

I'm sure there's more teams but I don't feel like going past the 1980s anyways as you basically told me one time, the league basically started with Magic and Bird. :rofl:


Also when you were cutting down Kobe. You said it wrong...its a volume shooter not scorer. A volume scorer is great. David Thompson 2.0, that comparison doesn't bother me. Give me a potential David Thompson over a potential Scottie Pippen any day.

So only Kobe Stans and trolls say Kobe's career overall is better than Lebron's?

I guess Larry Bird is a troll or Kobe Stan. Heres his quotes when asked the question of Kobe or Lebron.....

"Probably Kobe, because of the fact that ... well, of course he wouldn't have been shooting as much as he does now ... but his desire to win, his dedication, to always get better, and he's just, he's just tough," Bird said on Bill Simmons’ podcast. "He's just a tough cat if you want to have fun, like I did with Bill Walton, play with LeBron. It would have probably been more fun to play with LeBron, but if you want to win and win and win, it's Kobe. Not that LeBron's not a winner, just that (Kobe's) mindset is to go into every practice, every game, to get better."

Michael Jordan quotes on the subject ""Five beats one every time I look at it," Jordan said. "And not that (James) won't get five. He may get more than that, but five is bigger than one." I guess Jordan is a Kobe Stan. I know you're going to counter with some BS whine like "What does Jordan know he drafted Kwame and Adam Morrison"

Magic has said Kobe's career is better right now. Stephen A Smith says Kobe career is better right now too and you know what how Skip Bayless thinks. :lol: But I guess they are just Kobe Stans.

Shaq has played with both and says Kobe's career right now is better. Karl Malone said Kobe's career is better too. I'll give you a bone, I think Barkley and Bill Simmons said Lebron is better.

My point is, that it really is a great debate.

Is Lebron is a better player than Kobe right now? Yes thats a given Kobe is almost 35 years old. Nobody is arguing you that any more. Lebron certainly has a chance to catch or surpass Kobe in the collective heart and minds of people but he hasn't yet.

The 2000 NBA Finals, thats a standard talking point from the XtaLebronStan playbook and but you always omit that Kobe hurt his ankle in game 2. So lets look at game 1, was he awesome at scoring that game? No...he had 14 points on 46 % shooting. But his scoring wasn't needed instead he locked down All Star Reggie Miller causing him to have his playoff performance of his Hall of Fame career. Miller shot 1-16 while scoring a career playoff low of 7 points. Reggie Miller wasn't done at that point either he was 24 PPG scorer in the the 2000 NBA playoffs. In fact Miller went off for 33 points in the game Kobe missed. Kobe was hit clutch shots all during that series and not to mention a game winning putback in overtime of game 4.

The 2004 Finals aren't a highlight for Kobe but at least he had one great game during the series. Game 2, coincidentally the only game they won where he hit a game tying 3 pointer to send it to overtime. But I'd take that over Lebron's 2007 Finals performance 22 PPG while shooting .350 FG% and shooting 20 % from 3 point line all while giving you 6 turnovers a game.

Or Lebron's 2011 NBA Finals where he averaged 17 PPG when was a 27 PPG scorer during the regular season. Like wtf? Kobe may have put up bum numbers in 2004 NBA Finals but he was only 2PPG off his average. Lebron totally disappeared during the 4th quarter in pretty much ever game of the series, he was out there playing hot potato with Basketball. At least Kobe had the nuts to brick it. Lebron shrink from the moment like nothing we'd had ever WITNESSED in NBA history. Like seriously how does Lebron an all time great, shrink so much on the NBA's biggest stage. The Nike Basketball slogan for the 2011 NBA playoffs was EPIC. Well Lebron was an EPIC failure in the 2011 NBA Finals. I'm not even hating, thats what happened. Dont believe me, here are some other people who WITNESSED too

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/news/story?page=5-on-5-110608

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...ington-cleveland-days-lebron-james-nba-finals

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6640925/time-lebrondown-part-ii

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=6641556

http://www.hoopsvibe.com/features/f...011-nba-finals-too-many-excuses-too-much-hate

http://www.sbnation.com/hamsandwich/2011/6/14/2223649/lebron-james-miami-heat-nba-finals-2011

If you're going to count 1999, 2012 and 2013 as years, Kobe couldve won the championship. I have to count 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010 as years Lebron's team couldve won the championship. Before you go off in typical Lebron Stan fashion talking about Donyell Marshall and Boogie Gibson. I said TEAMS. Lebron had good teams that catered to his strengths. I'm not talking about All Stars.

About Kobe's game 4 of 2001 Western Conference Semifinals. You asked me for a game that at the level of Lebron's 2012 game 6. I told you one. Now you want to cry about how badly the Heat needed that game.So now its Kobe fault, that him and Shaq had one of the most impressive playoff runs since The 1983 76ers "fo', fi', fo" Ok :lol:


Lebron shouldn't even needed to go to the game 6 against the Celtics in the first place! The Celtics were aging and you could argue if Avery Bradley could play, so he could defend Wade wouldve won the series. If Lebron didn't foul out in game 4 especially when Paul Pierce had already fouled out, that game was theirs. In game 5 if Lebron plays better defense doesn't let Paul Pierce hit the game winner, the Heat win too. Lebron should thank KG and that fan in Boston who poured beer on him to wake him up and was responsible for Lebron's game 6.


And I know you're going to want to compare teams.Those 2001 Kings were better than the 2012 Celtics. The Kings finished with a .671 winning pct that season. The Lakers finished .683 winning pct. The 2012 Heat had a .697, the 2012 Celtics had .591 winning pct. Why do I bring that up? The Heat were supposed to win the series! Handily

Also speaking how is it not the same statistically? You must not have eyes :lol:

You must have missed the part where Lebron shoots 55 pct from the line, while Kobe shot 90 pct from the line. Free throws are part of the game too, Luke!
Or we are going to omit the part where Kobe was perfect from 3 point range had 1 more rebound, 2 steals and 1 block while Lebron had none. Or we are going to leave out the part where Lebron has 2 more turnovers than Kobe.

The 2009 Magic had a better record than 2012 Thunder...thats a fact! Therefore they were a better team! I'm not talking about All Stars and all that other dumb stuff. I'm talking about a team and the 2009 Magic were better team.

And no Im not going to stick pins in a vodoo doll of Lebron :lol:

Where did I say Lebron isn't good? Show me....quote it to me. I've never said that.I didn't post anything bad about Lebron when he failed in 2009, 2010 and 2011. I actually felt bad for the guy. You've never seen me in the Heat haters thread. You need to understand the difference between somebody being a critic and hater.


Lebron is a great player but not everybody wants get on their knees unlike you and bow to his greatness. He's great but I can name 15 guys, you wouldn't be called foolish to take over him......Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Duncan, Russell, Oscar, Hondo,Shaq,West, Dr.J, Hakeem, Moses.
Click to expand...

My argument was that "David Robinson was more valuable than Jordan "?? Are you kidding me? Where the hell did I say that? I didn't even say anything close to that. Don't try to bring stuff into this thread that I didn't say. Do you want me to mention how you stated that you thought that LeBron James is the worst player in the league?

My argument was that if you ONLY use the IDIOTIC "Take him off the team and they win XX games" logic which which was used to justify Carmelo Anthony's lone vote for the MVP which you defended and were happy that he got due to your extreme hate for LeBron James, THEN Michael Jordan wasn't the most "VALUABLE" player (to his team) most of those years and David Robinson was certainly more "valuable" to the Spurs than Michael Jordan was valuable to the Bulls based on the evidence in retrospect. I have given you several very relevant examples spread half a decade apart - the 1991-92 Spurs season where Robinson missed 14 games, the 1993-94 Bulls season without Jordan and the 1996-97 Spurs season that Robinson missed almost entirely - all three of which point to the same conclusion: That the Spurs record took a bigger hit without Robinson than the Bulls record did without Jordan. And yet you come with RIDICULOUS counter arguments, mentioning Willie friggin Anderson , praising a rookie Toni Kukoc to the heavens while not mentioning that the Spurs gained a leading scorer in Dominique Wilkins in the 1996-97 season. You mentioned that a rookie Kukoc was a better player than Dominique Wilkins given the minutes and shots, but then I shut that down by mentioning how a prime, experienced Kukoc in 98-99 put up the same numbers as Dominique in 96-97 while having the Bulls all to himself and leading them to an extremely crappy record. As for Sean Elliott: What part of this don't you understand? He started the 96-97 season. He played 39 games in the 1996-97 season. THEN he stopped playing because of an injury. Their record in those 39 games: 11-28. So basically your Sean Elliott argument sucks.

Your "Bulls were 22-47 without Jordan " argument was a joke. The vast, and I mean vast majority of those 22-47 came in the 85-86 season when Jordan missed almost the entire season. They were 9-9 with him in the games he played in 85-86, so a .500 team certainly shouldn't have an MVP on it. Other than the 1985-86 season, Jordan missed SEVEN games in total in the other 11 full seasons he played with the Bulls. Never more than 4 games in a single season. Too small of a sample to make any sort of an argument out of.

As for me thinking that "David Robinson was more valuable than Jordan ", that is just laughable. If anything, I feel that Jordan should've won more MVPs throughout his career. I'm okay with him not winning the one in 1992-93, but I think that Hakeem should've won it. Jordan should've certainly won it in 96-97 over Karl Malone, Malone had a way better argument for being the 97-98 MVP over Jordan than 96-97, but he shouldn't have won it in 98 either.

Michael Jordan should've been the unanimous MVP in 1995-96. Shaquille O'Neal should've been the unanimous MVP in 1999-00. LeBron James should've been the unanimous MVP in 2012-13. There are NO valid arguments for the opposite. If you use his supporting cast and the "take him off the team" argument and defend Carmelo's vote, then you might as well say that John Wall was a more VALUABLE player to the Wizards this season than LeBron was to the Heat. But what the hell does that have to do with the MVP award? We are talking about the MVP of the LEAGUE, not the relative MVP of a single team. If a player has a great supporting cast, what counter-argument against that player being the MVP is good if he leads that team to the best record in the league while putting up the best numbers in the league and being widely regarded as the best player in the league? And this season, there was NO argument against LeBron. If you know your NBA history, they already had an award for a player's relative contribution to his team. It was called the IBM award. Read up on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Award

The MVP is a completely different award with a different, less precise set of criteria. And what you and your hater brethren are doing is taking a small piece of the criteria usually used to determine the MVP (how relatively valuable a player is to his team) as if it’s the only criteria to determine the MVP and try to defend the vote for Melo when in fact this season there was no argument for any vote other than LeBron whatsoever.

Now you bring Chris Webber and Kevin Garnett into this debate after I tried to explain to you how dumb your bringing up of various players who have led their teams in pts/reb/assists was? You still don't get it, do you? Let's take this from the top all over again, step by step and I'll try to explain it like I would to a kid:

I am not trying to argue that Pau Gasol's supporting cast in 2005-06 was stacked.
I am not trying to argue that Scottie Pippen's supporting cast in 1994-95 was stacked.
I am not trying to argue that Grant Hill's supporting cast in 1996-97 was stacked.
I am not trying to argue that Chris Webber's supporting cast in 2002-03 was stacked.
I am not trying to argue that Kevin Garnett's Timberwolves were stacked.

I think all of them were phenomenal players, so I have no idea why you're bringing them up.
I was not trying to discredit Larry Bird, Wilt Chamberlain or Bill Walton in any way so your posting of the details of their various seasons where they led their teams in all categories was pointless because I am not trying to discredit any of those players in the first place. Your arguments are laughable because you’re trying to argue against a position I didn’t take to begin with. I can put an end to your ramblings However, YOU and your LeBron hating cronies have already taken your position. You’ve taken it and you’re stuck with it. Now you gotta live with the consequences.

You and your LeBron hating brethren are trying to discredit LeBron with this thread, and one of the main ways of doing this is by mentioning that this current Heat squad is not only stacked, but historically stacked. Great! Fine! I think LeBron's supporting cast is great as well. Not as much as you haters hype it up to be, but still great. What I'm trying to show is how laughably trapped you are when you try to take the "LeBron's supporting cast is stacked" angle.

Anyway, to sum this is where we're at: We more or less all agree LeBron's supporting cast is stacked, or at least very good.

NOW, since LeBron was able to lead this stacked team in points, rebounds and assists per game by significant margins this season, then what does that say about LeBron's brilliance as a player? Your answer to this was something like: Good for him, he's Scottie Pippen 2.0. :lol: The funny thing is that the more stacked you argue LeBron's supporting cast is, the more impressive his accomplishment of leading the team in points, rebounds and assists is. But somehow you and your hater brethren want to spin every aspect in your favor, have your LeBron hating cake and eating it too, while on top of that simultaneously taking a bite of your Kobe slurping cake.

Out of all those teams you cherry picked, the only team as historically stacked as you LeBron haters claim the post 2010 Heat to be are the 1986 Celtics. And with them you cherry picked a random category like free throws. Getting to the line might be important if you can’t get your buckets another way, which those Celtics could, both from the paint and the perimeter. This Heat squad doesn’t have a player that can be regarded as a great rebounder. Their scoring comes exclusively from the perimeter. They have way too many holes to be regarded as a historically stacked team. That is if you take LeBron off the team who helps them tremendously in just about every single category.

And if you would take a one dimensional scorer like David Thompson over Scottie Pippen, then I don’t know what to tell you, I think that says it all right there. You pretty much admit that your knowledge of the game of basketball is as one-dimensional as your unconditional love for Kobe and your hatred for LeBron. I gotta admit that my David Thompson comparison wasn’t completely accurate though: David Thompson had seasons where he shot 50%.

And since you want to talk about greats of the past quotes about LeBron/Kobe, fine. First of all, regarding Jordan : I don’t know if he’s a flat out troll, but he certainly shares many of the insecure characteristics of you LeBron haters. He’ll always pick Kobe over LeBron because he is insecure about LeBron. He knows that there is no way Kobe can catch him, but there is a theoretical chance of LeBron being regarded as the GOAT once his career is done and therefore, he will try to put LeBron down as much as possible.

Other than that, you mentioned Larry Bird. Here’s a quote of his:

"He's one guy in the league that I think he'll probably be better than all of us when it's all said and done."

This is about LeBron, not Kobe . Show me a quote from an all time great saying that Kobe will be the GOAT by the time he retires. I am pretty certain that there isn’t one, at least I don’t remember it. If there is a quote as dumb as that, it must’ve been a gamble quote from pretty early in Kobe ’s career, and not almost 10 years into his career.

Oscar Robertson flat out said that LeBron is better than Jordan (something that I don’t agree with), which pretty much automatically means Kobe as well. Scottie Pippen said something similar a couple of seasons ago.

Jerry West said that LeBron was a better basketball player all the way back around 2008 which made the Kobe stan legions extremely salty, resulting in a thread as big as this back when he said it. This was all the way back in 2008. Today, the subject of who is the better is laughably obvious, yet you and your partners are still trying to debate it.

All in all, the quotes you found are based around which of the two has had a better career so far. I’m sure that I don’t have to point out the obvious – one playing in the league 7 seasons more than the other. That would be like me finding quotes about players talking about who they would pick if they were starting a franchise today: Current LeBron or current Kobe . I’m pretty sure that those quotes would be pretty lopsided in favor of LeBron.

Find me quotes regarding who past greats think will go down as the greater player between LeBron and Kobe when both of their careers are finished. Yet here is the thing: Whereas the all time greats don’t dismiss anything LeBron might do in the future, you do that. You and the rest of the ever growing LeBron hate gang want to dismiss everything LeBron does with the Heat and put an asterisk next to his accomplishments because he plays on a stacked team or whatever else pathetic excuse you can think of.

As for your Kobe 2004 finals vs LeBron 2011 finals comparison, laughable as usual. Mark Cuban – the man who knows the details of the 2011 finals as much as anyone owned your overly simplistic explanation fuelled by your hate for LeBron in his ethership of Skip Brainless. Watch this video from the 4:13 mark:



“It wasn’t just LeBron, LEBRON ACTUALLY PLAYED IT RIGHT MORE OFTEN THAN NOT. He made the right pass to the right guy who didn’t make the right play. And that’s exactly what we wanted.”

The 2011 finals were at least just as much about the Mavericks (you know, the team that SWEPT your boy Kobrick earlier those playoffs) team defense and their focus on LeBron as it was about LeBron himself. Now, the 2004 Pistons deserve just as much credit for shutting Kobe down. However, the huge difference between the two was whereas LeBron constantly tried to pass the ball around (which failed), Kobe in all of his ballhugging and chucking glory had an absolutely INJUSTIFIABLE bricking display during the 2004 finals. As phenomenal as Shaq was during the three-peat finals, his FG% was actually even higher during the 2004. Yet Kobe still wouldn’t give him the ball. And it’s not like LeBron got any help from the refs, who you constantly mention as the reason any time he wins a game when he averaged 3.3 free throw attempts per game over those finals.
I don’t know how anyone who even has the most basic understanding that the game of basketball is a TEAM sport can think that all factors taken into consideration Kobe ’s 2004 finals were a less pathetic of a performance than LeBron’s 2011 finals. But then again, you did show the extent of your knowledge of basketball by saying that you would take David Thompson over Scottie Pippen. Do you honestly think that it would’ve been that hard for LeBron in 2011 to have a series like Kobe did in 2004? Throw up a bunch of bricks without giving a single damb whether it’s a good shot or not, take 20+ shots per game and average around 23 points while shooting below 40%. Yeah, that would’ve been insanely hard for him to do. The only difference would’ve been that Bron would’ve still had more rebounds and assists than Kobe .

And as far as those 2000 finals are concerned: What the hell does his atrocious field goal percentage from those finals (.367) have to do with how many minutes he played? The fact that he went out early in a game due to injury doesn’t change that. It might’ve had an effect on his scoring average, but in the end, he averaged 15.6 points over 35.2 minutes over those series. On 37% shooting. Along with 4.6 rebounds and 4.2 assists. That is pretty pathetic. I remember that first game of the series very well. Reggie Miller missed a bunch of wide open shots. I also remember Reggie saying "Man... If they keep giving me those looks: Watch out" in the post game interview. But okay: Let's say that his terrible shooting night was all because of Kobe and that Kobe averaged the same numbers for the rest of the series: 14 points, 3 rebounds and 5 assists along with great defense. Are you trying to say that this was some epic performance. You do know that is 4 points, 4 rebounds and 2 assists less per game than what LeBron averaged in the 2011 finals, right?
I find it hilarious how you Kobe stans love to say that LeBron got outplayed by Jason Terry in the 2011 finals while Kobe got outplayed by Austin Croshere in the 2000. At least people will remember Terry playing in the league. The only difference is that unlike Kobe, Austin Croshere didn’t have a guy averaging 38 points on 61% shooting and 17 rebounds per game on his team . It would’ve been much tougher for him to lose that series than to win it with a Shaq that dominant.

2004 and 2000 are the crown jewels of Kobe's suckage in his finals performances, but there are also other examples. 2008 finals were not as craptacular as 2004 and 2000, but it was a major underperormance by the "MVP" (lifetime achievement award) winner who averaged 26 points on 40% shooting. Averaged less in every statistical category compared to his regular season average other than steals. 2001 isn't anything to brag about either: 24.6 points, 7.8 rebounds and 5.8 assists are pretty decent averages until you see that it was in 47 minutes per game. Plus he shot .415. Overall way worse than his regular season averages. Then there is the 6-24 game 7 where he was bailed out by Pau and Metta. I sure would like to see Kobe's shooting percentage for all of his finals appearances combined. It must be staggeringly pathetic. No wonder that the Kobe stan lobby works heavily in building a myth that field goal percentage is overrated. And you want to focus on the 2011 while defending a player with a finals performance history such as this?

In the end, the best finals performance of Kobe's career came against the team led by the current teammate of Kobe's, who you Kobe stans have spent most of the season trashing and saying what a pathetic player he is. Gotta feel for you, not a great time to be a Kobe stan in. :lol:

Your anti-LeBron/pro-Kobe rants are ridiculous. However, your claim that the 08-09 Magic was a better team than 11-12 Thunder goes well beyond ridiculous, to the deepest levels of insanity previously unknown to science. All because they had a winning percentage that was .008 percent higher? Because any team with a higher winning percentage is better than a team with a lower percentage, right? Even if they are several years apart. :lol: How can I not mention all-stars when that is all the Thunder had? The player widely regarded as the second best in the league who was #2 in MVP voting. Not one, not two, but three members of the 2012 US Olympic team.. Plus #2 in DPOY voting Serge Ibaka. Even if Jameer Nelson didn't get injured, that Magic team isn't touching last season's Thunder. The pre-Harden trade 2012 Thunder will be one of those teams constantly mentioned in basketball related discussions for years to come. The emergence of Harden this year only showcases how much talent there was on that squad. The "greatness" of the 2009 Magic will only be brought up by Kobe stans trying to make the best finals performance of Kobe's career look better.

And lastly,your anti-LeBron rants go well beyond "criticizm" so don't bother trying to prove that it isn't hate. This is your strategy:
1. Say stuff like "I think LeBron is a great player.", and "Where have I said that he's a bad player?" - As if I have an archive of all your posts ready to show everything you said
2. Then write all kinds of crap putting a negative spin on anything LeBron does and hope that you saying "I think LeBron is a great player" at the end somehow justifies this as "criticizm" and not hate. All the while sporting a Kobe avatar and of course putting a positive spin on anything you write that is Kobe related.

Yeah, right. Carry on Mister Hater, I mean "critic"...
 
Last edited:
Dudes writing their Thesis in here.
laugh.gif
 
I can't imagine the time it took to write some of these responses; all over how people view an athlete. So many more productive things to read or write about :lol:
 
God damn holy essay. If a did not read gif was ever needed it is now
 
I just don't understand why the biggest Kobe stans are also the biggest LeBron haters.

Its not the other way around.

You wanna put sand in a Kobe fan's vagina, just bring up Lebron in any positive way.
 
SneakerPro said:
I just don't understand why the biggest Kobe stans are also the biggest LeBron haters.

Its not the other way around.

You wanna put sand in a Kobe fan's vagina, just bring up Lebron in any positive way.
Click to expand...

You can't be serious Every Lebron Fan Stan brings up Kobe when talking bout Lebron & Vice Versa
 
I'm sorry, but I don't follow this "entertaining" crap. These people love the game, and will do what it takes to with , and they aren't constantly trying to keep everybody entertained , especially if the game is on the line. Sure they will throw down some dunks, but in my opinion their dominance is just as impressive as couple of late shots.
 
The bias against Lebron and the defense of Lebron in both those dissertations are unhealthy. Unless you're a sportswriter that's way too much energy devoted to a bball player and his on the court exploits.

Jesus.
 
:wow: at these long responses in here :lol:

Entertainment & flashiness shouldn't matter when it comes to productivity though. LeBron got a triple double last night, with a game winning basket, in a win in the conference finals. It wasn't a difficult shot, but he still sealed the game for Miami. It wasn't "flashy", but he still had a great all around game with a triple double. Entertaining or not (depending on who you ask), he delivered in a win.
 
dreClark said:
The bias against Lebron and the defense of Lebron in both those dissertations are unhealthy. Unless you're a sportswriter that's way too much energy devoted to a bball player and his on the court exploits.

Jesus.
Click to expand...
lol even if you are a sports writer thats a bit much
 
AIRJORDAN JB23 said:
:wow: at these long responses in here :lol:

Entertainment & flashiness shouldn't matter when it comes to productivity though. LeBron got a triple double last night, with a game winning basket, in a win in the conference finals. It wasn't a difficult shot, but he still sealed the game for Miami. It wasn't "flashy", but he still had a great all around game with a triple double. Entertaining or not (depending on who you ask), he delivered in a win.
Click to expand...

Literally exactly what I was trying to say:tongue:
 


LeBron James Full Triple-Double Highlights 2013 ECF G1 vs Pacers - 30/10/10
Game Winner miami heat, may 22, 2013, nba, mvp
 
Xtapolapacetl said:
Mister Friendly said:
:lol: Bravo XTAPOLAPACETL


There you go ......You want to bring up the the Jordan vs David Robinson thing but not address whole thing I see you...lol

Your original statement was the Robinson was more deserving of the 1996 NBA MVP than Jordan. OK? :rolleyes

The crux of your argument was that the Spurs were so horrible in 1997 when the Robinson was out, while the 1994 Bulls were still a playoff team.
I told you the situations were different. 1997 Spurs lost Robinson during the season. They also lost 1996 All Star Elliott too. They also lost Chuck Person but I didn't mention him because Wilkins essentially was an upgrade to him. They were an older team so they couldn't trade for slight upgrades to their rotation like the 1994 Bulls did.

The 1994 Bulls while they lost Jordan, they picked up 4 upgrades pieces to their rotation plus MJ's "replacement" in Pete Myers. all those guys produced 48 PPG to offset the 51 PPG Jordan and the guys they replaced produced during 1993

Then I brought up the fact that Bulls were 22-47 when Jordan missed games over the course of his Bulls career. You discounted this, even though if you project Jordan playing those games, he missed they jump to the 6th seed and probably make the 2nd round because could have of avoided playing the eventually champion 1986 Celtics.

Then for some reason you brought up the Spurs going 5-9 when Robinson was out with a broken hand during 1992 season. I addressed this, Robinson missed those games but Willie Anderson who was a starter missed those games too. You don't remember Willie Anderson? Well I'm a Spurs fan and I do. Was Willie Anderson equal to David Robinson? Hell no! But when you lose an All Star, any help will do. If Willie Anderson is in the Spurs lineup maybe they win 2 more games in Robinson's absence to be 7-7 instead of 5-9. The 1992 Spurs were 3-3 with Anderson in the lineup without Robinson. I don't know.....who cares anyways they weren't going deep into the playoffs anyways. I'm a Spurs fan and I watched David Robinson play for many years. Your argument that David Robinson is anywhere close to Jordan in terms of value to a team is flat out foolish.

Now to this

So no player was ever led his team in points, rebounds and assists will good surrounding players? :lol:

Chris Webber did it in 2002-03 with All Star Peja Stojakovic, Mike Bibby and Bobby Jackson.

Kevin Garnett led his team in points, rebounds, assists, blocks and steals in 2003 with Wally Szczerbiak. Was Wally an all-time great? No...But he was an All Star the previous season.

But those teams probably aren't stacked enough for you because they only featured one supporting All Star and a couple good players. So here are some better teams.

Bill Walton led his team in points, rebounds and assists and blocks in 1978 while collecting the 1978 NBA MVP. A team that was the reigning champion won 58 games a team that had All-NBA Maurice Lucas and All star Lionel Hollins.

Wilt Chamberlain led his team in points, rebounds, assists by significant margins in 1966,1967 and 1968. He would've led the league in blocks too if that was a recorded stat back then. He played with HOFers Hal Greer, Chet Walker, Billy Cunningham. Its thats not a stacked team, I don't know what is.

But I know you're going to want a more modern team that was stacked. Ok so here's one.

Larry Bird led on the 1986 BOston Celtics in points, rebounds, assists and steals. The 1986 Boston Celtics is widely guarded as the best team outside of the 1996 Bulls and 1972 Lakers. Dont believe me go look it up. Larry Bird accomplished that feat with Kevin McHale(HOF)Robert Parish(HOF)Dennis Johnson(HOF)and Danny Ainge. I shouldn't mention Danny Ainge because he wasn't in those other guys class but he was still an All Star level player.
Should I mention Bill Walton(HOF) who won the NBA Sixth Man of the Year, that year too? Nah he was kinda done at that point anyways but he was still good enough to give you 14 PPG, 12 RPG, 4APG and 2.5 BLKS per 36 minutes.

Mchale,Parish and Johnson weren't just names at that point either. They were All-NBA/All Star/All Defensive team level players. Larry Bird led those guys in points, rebounds, assists and steals. Not to mention all while basically being a 40/50/90 guy.

So what's my point Lebron isn't the only great player to achieve that accomplishment even with a stacked team. Stop acting like he revolutionized the game


So no historically great team has been at the bottom of the stat standing in important category? :lol:


The 2011 Mavericks were 23rd in steals, 24th blocks.
The 2006 Heat were 29th in free throw % and dead last in steals too. But lets be honest those aren't historically great teams. Both those of teams basically won the championship off gifts from the other teams star player(Lebron and Dirk respectively) So lets get to the historically great teams that were bad at an important stat.


The Back to Back Pistons were dead last in steals both years they won the championship. Which means they can't get the ball from the other team, thats a very important part of the game if you didn't know that. They were dead last in steals all the while being a muddling team in protecting the ball themselves, they finished 15th and 20th in turnovers out a 25 and 27 league team.


The 1986 Boston Celtics were 21st out of 23 NBA teams in free throw attempts. Thats an important part of the game, you know getting to the line ask D Wade. Not to mention they were 22nd in the NBA in committing the most personal fouls. You know mean to tell me they were horrible in getting to the free throw line but yet they fouled all the time? Wow. They were woeful on the offensive boards too. Ranked 22nd in that category. Despite all that they are an historically great team.

The 1985 Lakers were horrible at getting to the free throw line too,they ranked 21st.

the 1983 76ers were horrible in assists, they ranked 19th out of 23 teams. I don't know what that means....I guess Moses was dribbling down on the block too much:lol: All I know is, that you deem assists as very important category since you always bring up in regards to Lebron.

The 1982 Lakers were historically bad from the 3 point line but this is common knowledge if you follow the NBA at all, but I'm going to give that a pass since the 3 point shot was a relatively new weapon and why shoot threes when you have arguably the greatest player of all time on the block in Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Pat Riley is a great coach.

I'm sure there's more teams but I don't feel like going past the 1980s anyways as you basically told me one time, the league basically started with Magic and Bird. :rofl:


Also when you were cutting down Kobe. You said it wrong...its a volume shooter not scorer. A volume scorer is great. David Thompson 2.0, that comparison doesn't bother me. Give me a potential David Thompson over a potential Scottie Pippen any day.

So only Kobe Stans and trolls say Kobe's career overall is better than Lebron's?

I guess Larry Bird is a troll or Kobe Stan. Heres his quotes when asked the question of Kobe or Lebron.....

"Probably Kobe, because of the fact that ... well, of course he wouldn't have been shooting as much as he does now ... but his desire to win, his dedication, to always get better, and he's just, he's just tough," Bird said on Bill Simmons’ podcast. "He's just a tough cat if you want to have fun, like I did with Bill Walton, play with LeBron. It would have probably been more fun to play with LeBron, but if you want to win and win and win, it's Kobe. Not that LeBron's not a winner, just that (Kobe's) mindset is to go into every practice, every game, to get better."

Michael Jordan quotes on the subject ""Five beats one every time I look at it," Jordan said. "And not that (James) won't get five. He may get more than that, but five is bigger than one." I guess Jordan is a Kobe Stan. I know you're going to counter with some BS whine like "What does Jordan know he drafted Kwame and Adam Morrison"

Magic has said Kobe's career is better right now. Stephen A Smith says Kobe career is better right now too and you know what how Skip Bayless thinks. :lol: But I guess they are just Kobe Stans.

Shaq has played with both and says Kobe's career right now is better. Karl Malone said Kobe's career is better too. I'll give you a bone, I think Barkley and Bill Simmons said Lebron is better.

My point is, that it really is a great debate.

Is Lebron is a better player than Kobe right now? Yes thats a given Kobe is almost 35 years old. Nobody is arguing you that any more. Lebron certainly has a chance to catch or surpass Kobe in the collective heart and minds of people but he hasn't yet.

The 2000 NBA Finals, thats a standard talking point from the XtaLebronStan playbook and but you always omit that Kobe hurt his ankle in game 2. So lets look at game 1, was he awesome at scoring that game? No...he had 14 points on 46 % shooting. But his scoring wasn't needed instead he locked down All Star Reggie Miller causing him to have his playoff performance of his Hall of Fame career. Miller shot 1-16 while scoring a career playoff low of 7 points. Reggie Miller wasn't done at that point either he was 24 PPG scorer in the the 2000 NBA playoffs. In fact Miller went off for 33 points in the game Kobe missed. Kobe was hit clutch shots all during that series and not to mention a game winning putback in overtime of game 4.

The 2004 Finals aren't a highlight for Kobe but at least he had one great game during the series. Game 2, coincidentally the only game they won where he hit a game tying 3 pointer to send it to overtime. But I'd take that over Lebron's 2007 Finals performance 22 PPG while shooting .350 FG% and shooting 20 % from 3 point line all while giving you 6 turnovers a game.

Or Lebron's 2011 NBA Finals where he averaged 17 PPG when was a 27 PPG scorer during the regular season. Like wtf? Kobe may have put up bum numbers in 2004 NBA Finals but he was only 2PPG off his average. Lebron totally disappeared during the 4th quarter in pretty much ever game of the series, he was out there playing hot potato with Basketball. At least Kobe had the nuts to brick it. Lebron shrink from the moment like nothing we'd had ever WITNESSED in NBA history. Like seriously how does Lebron an all time great, shrink so much on the NBA's biggest stage. The Nike Basketball slogan for the 2011 NBA playoffs was EPIC. Well Lebron was an EPIC failure in the 2011 NBA Finals. I'm not even hating, thats what happened. Dont believe me, here are some other people who WITNESSED too

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/news/story?page=5-on-5-110608

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...ington-cleveland-days-lebron-james-nba-finals

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6640925/time-lebrondown-part-ii

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=6641556

http://www.hoopsvibe.com/features/f...011-nba-finals-too-many-excuses-too-much-hate

http://www.sbnation.com/hamsandwich/2011/6/14/2223649/lebron-james-miami-heat-nba-finals-2011

If you're going to count 1999, 2012 and 2013 as years, Kobe couldve won the championship. I have to count 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010 as years Lebron's team couldve won the championship. Before you go off in typical Lebron Stan fashion talking about Donyell Marshall and Boogie Gibson. I said TEAMS. Lebron had good teams that catered to his strengths. I'm not talking about All Stars.

About Kobe's game 4 of 2001 Western Conference Semifinals. You asked me for a game that at the level of Lebron's 2012 game 6. I told you one. Now you want to cry about how badly the Heat needed that game.So now its Kobe fault, that him and Shaq had one of the most impressive playoff runs since The 1983 76ers "fo', fi', fo" Ok :lol:


Lebron shouldn't even needed to go to the game 6 against the Celtics in the first place! The Celtics were aging and you could argue if Avery Bradley could play, so he could defend Wade wouldve won the series. If Lebron didn't foul out in game 4 especially when Paul Pierce had already fouled out, that game was theirs. In game 5 if Lebron plays better defense doesn't let Paul Pierce hit the game winner, the Heat win too. Lebron should thank KG and that fan in Boston who poured beer on him to wake him up and was responsible for Lebron's game 6.


And I know you're going to want to compare teams.Those 2001 Kings were better than the 2012 Celtics. The Kings finished with a .671 winning pct that season. The Lakers finished .683 winning pct. The 2012 Heat had a .697, the 2012 Celtics had .591 winning pct. Why do I bring that up? The Heat were supposed to win the series! Handily

Also speaking how is it not the same statistically? You must not have eyes :lol:

You must have missed the part where Lebron shoots 55 pct from the line, while Kobe shot 90 pct from the line. Free throws are part of the game too, Luke!
Or we are going to omit the part where Kobe was perfect from 3 point range had 1 more rebound, 2 steals and 1 block while Lebron had none. Or we are going to leave out the part where Lebron has 2 more turnovers than Kobe.

The 2009 Magic had a better record than 2012 Thunder...thats a fact! Therefore they were a better team! I'm not talking about All Stars and all that other dumb stuff. I'm talking about a team and the 2009 Magic were better team.

And no Im not going to stick pins in a vodoo doll of Lebron :lol:

Where did I say Lebron isn't good? Show me....quote it to me. I've never said that.I didn't post anything bad about Lebron when he failed in 2009, 2010 and 2011. I actually felt bad for the guy. You've never seen me in the Heat haters thread. You need to understand the difference between somebody being a critic and hater.


Lebron is a great player but not everybody wants get on their knees unlike you and bow to his greatness. He's great but I can name 15 guys, you wouldn't be called foolish to take over him......Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Duncan, Russell, Oscar, Hondo,Shaq,West, Dr.J, Hakeem, Moses.
Click to expand...

My argument was that "David Robinson was more valuable than Jordan "?? Are you kidding me? Where the hell did I say that? I didn't even say anything close to that. Don't try to bring stuff into this thread that I didn't say. Do you want me to mention how you stated that you thought that LeBron James is the worst player in the league?

My argument was that if you ONLY use the IDIOTIC "Take him off the team and they win XX games" logic which which was used to justify Carmelo Anthony's lone vote for the MVP which you defended and were happy that he got due to your extreme hate for LeBron James, THEN Michael Jordan wasn't the most "VALUABLE" player (to his team) most of those years and David Robinson was certainly more "valuable" to the Spurs than Michael Jordan was valuable to the Bulls based on the evidence in retrospect. I have given you several very relevant examples spread half a decade apart - the 1991-92 Spurs season where Robinson missed 14 games, the 1993-94 Bulls season without Jordan and the 1996-97 Spurs season that Robinson missed almost entirely - all three of which point to the same conclusion: That the Spurs record took a bigger hit without Robinson than the Bulls record did without Jordan. And yet you come with RIDICULOUS counter arguments, mentioning Willie friggin Anderson , praising a rookie Toni Kukoc to the heavens while not mentioning that the Spurs gained a leading scorer in Dominique Wilkins in the 1996-97 season. You mentioned that a rookie Kukoc was a better player than Dominique Wilkins given the minutes and shots, but then I shut that down by mentioning how a prime, experienced Kukoc in 98-99 put up the same numbers as Dominique in 96-97 while having the Bulls all to himself and leading them to an extremely crappy record. As for Sean Elliott: What part of this don't you understand? He started the 96-97 season. He played 39 games in the 1996-97 season. THEN he stopped playing because of an injury. Their record in those 39 games: 11-28. So basically your Sean Elliott argument sucks.

Your "Bulls were 22-47 without Jordan " argument was a joke. The vast, and I mean vast majority of those 22-47 came in the 85-86 season when Jordan missed almost the entire season. They were 9-9 with him in the games he played in 85-86, so a .500 team certainly shouldn't have an MVP on it. Other than the 1985-86 season, Jordan missed SEVEN games in total in the other 11 full seasons he played with the Bulls. Never more than 4 games in a single season. Too small of a sample to make any sort of an argument out of.

As for me thinking that "David Robinson was more valuable than Jordan ", that is just laughable. If anything, I feel that Jordan should've won more MVPs throughout his career. I'm okay with him not winning the one in 1992-93, but I think that Hakeem should've won it. Jordan should've certainly won it in 96-97 over Karl Malone, Malone had a way better argument for being the 97-98 MVP over Jordan than 96-97, but he shouldn't have won it in 98 either.

Michael Jordan should've been the unanimous MVP in 1995-96. Shaquille O'Neal should've been the unanimous MVP in 1999-00. LeBron James should've been the unanimous MVP in 2012-13. There are NO valid arguments for the opposite. If you use his supporting cast and the "take him off the team" argument and defend Carmelo's vote, then you might as well say that John Wall was a more VALUABLE player to the Wizards this season than LeBron was to the Heat. But what the hell does that have to do with the MVP award? We are talking about the MVP of the LEAGUE, not the relative MVP of a single team. If a player has a great supporting cast, what counter-argument against that player being the MVP is good if he leads that team to the best record in the league while putting up the best numbers in the league and being widely regarded as the best player in the league? And this season, there was NO argument against LeBron. If you know your NBA history, they already had an award for a player's relative contribution to his team. It was called the IBM award. Read up on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Award

The MVP is a completely different award with a different, less precise set of criteria. And what you and your hater brethren are doing is taking a small piece of the criteria usually used to determine the MVP (how relatively valuable a player is to his team) as if it’s the only criteria to determine the MVP and try to defend the vote for Melo when in fact this season there was no argument for any vote other than LeBron whatsoever.

Now you bring Chris Webber and Kevin Garnett into this debate after I tried to explain to you how dumb your bringing up of various players who have led their teams in pts/reb/assists was? You still don't get it, do you? Let's take this from the top all over again, step by step and I'll try to explain it like I would to a kid:

I am not trying to argue that Pau Gasol's supporting cast in 2005-06 was stacked.
I am not trying to argue that Scottie Pippen's supporting cast in 1994-95 was stacked.
I am not trying to argue that Grant Hill's supporting cast in 1996-97 was stacked.
I am not trying to argue that Chris Webber's supporting cast in 2002-03 was stacked.
I am not trying to argue that Kevin Garnett's Timberwolves were stacked.

I think all of them were phenomenal players, so I have no idea why you're bringing them up.
I was not trying to discredit Larry Bird, Wilt Chamberlain or Bill Walton in any way so your posting of the details of their various seasons where they led their teams in all categories was pointless because I am not trying to discredit any of those players in the first place. Your arguments are laughable because you’re trying to argue against a position I didn’t take to begin with. I can put an end to your ramblings However, YOU and your LeBron hating cronies have already taken your position. You’ve taken it and you’re stuck with it. Now you gotta live with the consequences.

You and your LeBron hating brethren are trying to discredit LeBron with this thread, and one of the main ways of doing this is by mentioning that this current Heat squad is not only stacked, but historically stacked. Great! Fine! I think LeBron's supporting cast is great as well. Not as much as you haters hype it up to be, but still great. What I'm trying to show is how laughably trapped you are when you try to take the "LeBron's supporting cast is stacked" angle.

Anyway, to sum this is where we're at: We more or less all agree LeBron's supporting cast is stacked, or at least very good.

NOW, since LeBron was able to lead this stacked team in points, rebounds and assists per game by significant margins this season, then what does that say about LeBron's brilliance as a player? Your answer to this was something like: Good for him, he's Scottie Pippen 2.0. :lol: The funny thing is that the more stacked you argue LeBron's supporting cast is, the more impressive his accomplishment of leading the team in points, rebounds and assists is. But somehow you and your hater brethren want to spin every aspect in your favor, have your LeBron hating cake and eating it too, while on top of that simultaneously taking a bite of your Kobe slurping cake.

Out of all those teams you cherry picked, the only team as historically stacked as you LeBron haters claim the post 2010 Heat to be are the 1986 Celtics. And with them you cherry picked a random category like free throws. Getting to the line might be important if you can’t get your buckets another way, which those Celtics could, both from the paint and the perimeter. This Heat squad doesn’t have a player that can be regarded as a great rebounder. Their scoring comes exclusively from the perimeter. They have way too many holes to be regarded as a historically stacked team. That is if you take LeBron off the team who helps them tremendously in just about every single category.

And if you would take a one dimensional scorer like David Thompson over Scottie Pippen, then I don’t know what to tell you, I think that says it all right there. You pretty much admit that your knowledge of the game of basketball is as one-dimensional as your unconditional love for Kobe and your hatred for LeBron. I gotta admit that my David Thompson comparison wasn’t completely accurate though: David Thompson had seasons where he shot 50%.

And since you want to talk about greats of the past quotes about LeBron/Kobe, fine. First of all, regarding Jordan : I don’t know if he’s a flat out troll, but he certainly shares many of the insecure characteristics of you LeBron haters. He’ll always pick Kobe over LeBron because he is insecure about LeBron. He knows that there is no way Kobe can catch him, but there is a theoretical chance of LeBron being regarded as the GOAT once his career is done and therefore, he will try to put LeBron down as much as possible.

Other than that, you mentioned Larry Bird. Here’s a quote of his:

"He's one guy in the league that I think he'll probably be better than all of us when it's all said and done."

This is about LeBron, not Kobe . Show me a quote from an all time great saying that Kobe will be the GOAT by the time he retires. I am pretty certain that there isn’t one, at least I don’t remember it. If there is a quote as dumb as that, it must’ve been a gamble quote from pretty early in Kobe ’s career, and not almost 10 years into his career.

Oscar Robertson flat out said that LeBron is better than Jordan (something that I don’t agree with), which pretty much automatically means Kobe as well. Scottie Pippen said something similar a couple of seasons ago.

Jerry West said that LeBron was a better basketball player all the way back around 2008 which made the Kobe stan legions extremely salty, resulting in a thread as big as this back when he said it. This was all the way back in 2008. Today, the subject of who is the better is laughably obvious, yet you and your partners are still trying to debate it.

All in all, the quotes you found are based around which of the two has had a better career so far. I’m sure that I don’t have to point out the obvious – one playing in the league 7 seasons more than the other. That would be like me finding quotes about players talking about who they would pick if they were starting a franchise today: Current LeBron or current Kobe . I’m pretty sure that those quotes would be pretty lopsided in favor of LeBron.

Find me quotes regarding who past greats think will go down as the greater player between LeBron and Kobe when both of their careers are finished. Yet here is the thing: Whereas the all time greats don’t dismiss anything LeBron might do in the future, you do that. You and the rest of the ever growing LeBron hate gang want to dismiss everything LeBron does with the Heat and put an asterisk next to his accomplishments because he plays on a stacked team or whatever else pathetic excuse you can think of.

As for your Kobe 2004 finals vs LeBron 2011 finals comparison, laughable as usual. Mark Cuban – the man who knows the details of the 2011 finals as much as anyone owned your overly simplistic explanation fuelled by your hate for LeBron in his ethership of Skip Brainless. Watch this video from the 4:13 mark:



“It wasn’t just LeBron, LEBRON ACTUALLY PLAYED IT RIGHT MORE OFTEN THAN NOT. He made the right pass to the right guy who didn’t make the right play. And that’s exactly what we wanted.”

The 2011 finals were at least just as much about the Mavericks (you know, the team that SWEPT your boy Kobrick earlier those playoffs) team defense and their focus on LeBron as it was about LeBron himself. Now, the 2004 Pistons deserve just as much credit for shutting Kobe down. However, the huge difference between the two was whereas LeBron constantly tried to pass the ball around (which failed), Kobe in all of his ballhugging and chucking glory had an absolutely INJUSTIFIABLE bricking display during the 2004 finals. As phenomenal as Shaq was during the three-peat finals, his FG% was actually even higher during the 2004. Yet Kobe still wouldn’t give him the ball. And it’s not like LeBron got any help from the refs, who you constantly mention as the reason any time he wins a game when he averaged 3.3 free throw attempts per game over those finals.
I don’t know how anyone who even has the most basic understanding that the game of basketball is a TEAM sport can think that all factors taken into consideration Kobe ’s 2004 finals were a less pathetic of a performance than LeBron’s 2011 finals. But then again, you did show the extent of your knowledge of basketball by saying that you would take David Thompson over Scottie Pippen. Do you honestly think that it would’ve been that hard for LeBron in 2011 to have a series like Kobe did in 2004? Throw up a bunch of bricks without giving a single damb whether it’s a good shot or not, take 20+ shots per game and average around 23 points while shooting below 40%. Yeah, that would’ve been insanely hard for him to do. The only difference would’ve been that Bron would’ve still had more rebounds and assists than Kobe .

And as far as those 2000 finals are concerned: What the hell does his atrocious field goal percentage from those finals (.367) have to do with how many minutes he played? The fact that he went out early in a game due to injury doesn’t change that. It might’ve had an effect on his scoring average, but in the end, he averaged 15.6 points over 35.2 minutes over those series. On 37% shooting. Along with 4.6 rebounds and 4.2 assists. That is pretty pathetic. I remember that first game of the series very well. Reggie Miller missed a bunch of wide open shots. I also remember Reggie saying "Man... If they keep giving me those looks: Watch out" in the post game interview. But okay: Let's say that his terrible shooting night was all because of Kobe and that Kobe averaged the same numbers for the rest of the series: 14 points, 3 rebounds and 5 assists along with great defense. Are you trying to say that this was some epic performance. You do know that is 4 points, 4 rebounds and 2 assists less per game than what LeBron averaged in the 2011 finals, right?
I find it hilarious how you Kobe stans love to say that LeBron got outplayed by Jason Terry in the 2011 finals while Kobe got outplayed by Austin Croshere in the 2000. At least people will remember Terry playing in the league. The only difference is that unlike Kobe, Austin Croshere didn’t have a guy averaging 38 points on 61% shooting and 17 rebounds per game on his team . It would’ve been much tougher for him to lose that series than to win it with a Shaq that dominant.

2004 and 2000 are the crown jewels of Kobe's suckage in his finals performances, but there are also other examples. 2008 finals were not as craptacular as 2004 and 2000, but it was a major underperormance by the "MVP" (lifetime achievement award) winner who averaged 26 points on 40% shooting. Averaged less in every statistical category compared to his regular season average other than steals. 2001 isn't anything to brag about either: 24.6 points, 7.8 rebounds and 5.8 assists are pretty decent averages until you see that it was in 47 minutes per game. Plus he shot .415. Overall way worse than his regular season averages. Then there is the 6-24 game 7 where he was bailed out by Pau and Metta. I sure would like to see Kobe's shooting percentage for all of his finals appearances combined. It must be staggeringly pathetic. No wonder that the Kobe stan lobby works heavily in building a myth that field goal percentage is overrated. And you want to focus on the 2011 while defending a player with a finals performance history such as this?

In the end, the best finals performance of Kobe's career came against the team led by the current teammate of Kobe's, who you Kobe stans have spent most of the season trashing and saying what a pathetic player he is. Gotta feel for you, not a great time to be a Kobe stan in. :lol:

Your anti-LeBron/pro-Kobe rants are ridiculous. However, your claim that the 08-09 Magic was a better team than 11-12 Thunder goes well beyond ridiculous, to the deepest levels of insanity previously unknown to science. All because they had a winning percentage that was .008 percent higher? Because any team with a higher winning percentage is better than a team with a lower percentage, right? Even if they are several years apart. :lol: How can I not mention all-stars when that is all the Thunder had? The player widely regarded as the second best in the league who was #2 in MVP voting. Not one, not two, but three members of the 2012 US Olympic team.. Plus #2 in DPOY voting Serge Ibaka. Even if Jameer Nelson didn't get injured, that Magic team isn't touching last season's Thunder. The pre-Harden trade 2012 Thunder will be one of those teams constantly mentioned in basketball related discussions for years to come. The emergence of Harden this year only showcases how much talent there was on that squad. The "greatness" of the 2009 Magic will only be brought up by Kobe stans trying to make the best finals performance of Kobe's career look better.

And lastly,your anti-LeBron rants go well beyond "criticizm" so don't bother trying to prove that it isn't hate. This is your strategy:
1. Say stuff like "I think LeBron is a great player.", and "Where have I said that he's a bad player?" - As if I have an archive of all your posts ready to show everything you said
2. Then write all kinds of crap putting a negative spin on anything LeBron does and hope that you saying "I think LeBron is a great player" at the end somehow justifies this as "criticizm" and not hate. All the while sporting a Kobe avatar and of course putting a positive spin on anything you write that is Kobe related.

Yeah, right. Carry on Mister Hater, I mean "critic"...
Click to expand...




I want to address everything you said but its clear people are tired of the long read long ***** texts. So I'll just touch of a few things.


Yeah man you said Jordan wasnt valuable as Robinson. Maybe you were being sarcastic. I cant tell because you seem pretty dead *** serious in all of your other rants

Heres your words

http://niketalk.com/t/535560/is-it-time-to-revisit-what-the-mvp-actually-means/90

Xtapolapacetl said:
knightngale said:
So Jordan was only valuable to his team 2 times? That some good analysis right there. Not surprising coming from an MVP level lebron fan.
Click to expand...

Jordan sure as hell wasn't AS valuable to the Bulls as Hakeem was for the Rockets, Barkley for the Sixers, Robinson for the Spurs and some other variations if we were going by the "take him off the team" logic. .
Click to expand...


Now to this thread. The majority of the threads of you post in, you come with the same tired playbook


1.A Kobe fan always equals a Lebron Hater
2. The 2004 NBA Finals
3..2000 NBA Finals when Kobe was "Jalened"
4..You talk about shooting % but omit them when they dont favor Lebron
5.You talk about how Lebron got 30 PPG and blah blah when he was 21 and Kobe was "along for the ride" when he got a ring



But now you have a new play!:lol:

Youre the only person that tries to defend that 2011 NBA Finals..... And you find the one guy who thinks Lebron played well that series,that one guy who Lebron just happened to award a championship to.
:rofl:rollin

Like seriously:lol:

At least most Kobe Stans admit 2004 was bad. But nope you wont admit that Lebron's 2011 NBA Finals was bad.

I guess the 2011 NBA Fnals is to Lebron Stans what Rocky V is to Sylvester Stallone: It never happened.

:rofl:rollin

Mister Hater....cute :lol:

You must not know the difference between a hater and critic maybe you never had anybody who was hard ( but fair) on you growing up because at any type of criticism.. You scream "hater"

Dude I'm not hater. You want to see a hater this is a hater


The players I depise thread

http://niketalk.com/t/27729/players-you-despise-vol-get-outta-here/60#post_1533800

Xtapolapacetl said:
In alphabetical order:


Bryant, Kobe


















That is all.
Click to expand...

The White Kobe Thread

Xtapolapacetl said:
Does that mean that he rapes black 19 year-old girls?
Click to expand...



Kobe vs Melo 2k10 thread

http://niketalk.com/t/205644/09-18-09-kobe-vs-carmelo-nba-2k10#post_5497532

Xtapolapacetl said:
[QUOTE name="MoNeyLiCiouS"]
Originally Posted by MoNeyLiCiouS

I got money on Melo, Kobe spends his free time in the gym white girls, no time for video games.
Click to expand...

[/quote]




The WHAT DOES KOBE'S "RAPE" CASE HAVE TO DO WITH HIS TALENT? thread

http://niketalk.com/t/185221/what-does-kobes-rape-case-have-to-do-with-his-talent#post_4669138

Xtapolapacetl said:
That he's talented at raping?
Click to expand...


The Kobbe warming up before Barcelonia thread

http://niketalk.com/t/270704/kobe-bryant-warming-up-video-vol-barcelona#post_8345706

Xtapolapacetl said:
Now if he could only hit HALF of his shots in a NBA finals game, something he didn't do in a single game of either the 2009 or 2010 NBA finals and only did 5 times in 37 NBA finals games, topped off by that phenomenal game 7 performance.
Click to expand...


Kobe followed by another Kobe picture thread

Xtapolapacetl said:
katelynfaber.jpg


kobe-bryant-mug-shot.jpg


t1_kobe_ap.jpg
Click to expand...


THE VICTIMS OF THE 2002 SCANDAL FINALLY GETTING A RING APPRECIATION POST.....You were the thread starter

http://niketalk.com/t/300887/victims-of-the-2002-scandal-finally-getting-a-ring-appreciation-post

Xtapolapacetl said:
52852440_display_image.jpg
Click to expand...

You have some other gems in that thread but they are just too long too quote :lol:

The LEBRON JAMES READY FOR LONDON thread

http://niketalk.com/t/274032/lebron-james-ready-for-london#post_8569746

Xtapolapacetl said:
[QUOTE name="mauriciogarcia"]
Originally Posted by mauriciogarcia


kobe had that bumb knee.

Hey but this guy here was to busy making his decision than going to turkey.
Click to expand...




And when LeBron was in the Athens Olympics as a 19 year-old, Kobe was busy raping white girls in Colorado hotel rooms.[/quote]


Thats from a quick scan through your posts :smh:. I didn't bother with thinly veined shots or your super duper long rants


After reading your posts I'm really starting to feel sorry for you.:frown:

Its really deep for you

Hey guy I'll be here for you to take out your anger about the world to via a lame Kobe vs Lebron debate.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest News

View All News

The ultimate sneaker enthusiast community.

Site contents may not be incorporated into AI training data or any other derivative works without prior express written consent.

Links to participating merchants may generate referral or affiliate commissions that help support our community. See our policies for details. NikeTalk is NOT affiliated with Nike Inc. in any way, shape, or form. All opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of Nike, Inc.

© 1999-2024 NikeTalk.com

Share this page

Back
Top Bottom