Lance Armstrong / Cheating in Sports / Cheating in Life

[calibeebee]

Remembering the people that Team Armstrong buried...

The only remaining official American winner of the Tour de France - Greg LeMond (1986, 1989, 1990) has been an outspoken critic of his sport, PEDs, and particular the legitimacy of Lance.

Lance's team did not appreciate LeMond's opinions on the matter so they acted accordingly.

In an interview with Global Cycling Network (GCN), Irish journalist David Walsh said that American Tour de France champion Greg LeMond had been “vilified” by Lance Armstrong for years for speaking out against Armstrong’s involvement with Italian doping doctor Michele Ferrari.

It was a public stance that ultimately cost LeMond his bicycle business, and pitted him against a legion of Armstrong supporters, many of whom painted the three-time Tour winner as bitter, or jealous.

“[LeMond] said, ‘If Lance’s story is true, it’s the greatest comeback in the history of sport, if it’s not, it’s the greatest fraud,’ and of course that was just raising the question that it might be a fraud,” Walsh told GCN’s Daniel Lloyd. “Armstrong, of course, went insane with anger, and Greg then was vilified by Armstrong, [he] was put under unbelievable pressure.”

Armstrong’s influence led to his bike sponsor, Trek, dropping its support of the LeMond brand it had licensed for 13 years from the three-time Tour winner.

In 2008, Trek president John Burke told the trade magazine Bicycle Retailer and Industry News, “Had all the stars aligned with Lance and Greg, if [LeMond] had kept a positive relationship, [the LeMond brand] would have ended up a $30 [million] to $35 million brand.”

Instead, it wound up a memory.

“Armstrong could exercise unbelievable influence if he wanted to — to damage your business interests, or destroy your character,” Walsh said. “He was a formidable and very dangerous enemy, Lance, and he didn’t mind using his power to destroy other people.”

Especially significant was LeMond's appearance as a USADA witness in the 2007 Floyd Landis doping case. There, on the eve of LeMond's testimony in May 2007, Landis' business manager called LeMond and threatened to disclose that he was a victim of childhood sexual abuse should LeMond appear in court as scheduled. Undeterred, LeMond took the stand the following day, testified, and also admitted to the world that he had been molested.

Several weeks later, LeMond and his wife Kathy gave an extensive interview to Paul Kimmage of The Sunday Times. LeMond provided additional details concerning the circumstances of his 2001 apology to Armstrong, stating that Trek, the longtime manufacturer and distributor of LeMond Racing Cycles, had threatened to end the relationship at the behest of Armstrong. He described the two years following the forced apology as the worst in his life, marked by self-destructive behavior that ultimately led him to disclose his sexual abuse to his wife and seek help.

We need to get Greg LeMond something to make up for this. Like a key to the city or free subway forever or something for this nonsense.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Lance wasn't the best though. He just had the best doping regimen of arguably any athlete in the world. He wasn't **** before he started doping. It's not like Bonds who would have had a GOAT worthy career even without PEDs.

I LOVE that stories are coming out that Lance had inside help.

And those who think he's going to make money off this, you're dead wrong. He's getting sued by everyone now. All those libel suits, all that prize money, all that sponsorship money from the Postal Service. Gone. All of it. He's done.

Lance won a World Championship (which by the looks of the testimoney, he might have won clean) and before he got cancer and rode in tours. He was an elite cyclist. GFTO wit he wasn't **** talk

Doping didn't make Lance a beast, his hard work did. All his competition was on the juice too, he had a more talented rival (with a equally strong team) who he consistently gave the business because he out worked him.

He completely changed the way he rode, both in climbing and time time trialing (a big ******g deal at the time). He popularized the high cadence low gear time trialing style which a lot of dudes adopted. Brad Wiggins damn near model his riding style after Lance to be able to win his Tour. Contador adopted the style to and is the only reason why he can beat Andy Schlek head-to-head.

Lance took PEDs to be able to have a chance, his hard work made him a winner.

Lance's arrogance was his downfall, but none of his accomplishments should be question. It was a fair fight

 

[jeremiejones]

Lance didn't take any shortcuts to win? Wow your logic is a joke! I guess Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire etc. didn't take any shortcuts either. LIESTRONG

 

[RustyShackleford]

Lance didn't take any shortcuts to win? Wow your logic is a joke! I guess Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire etc. didn't take any shortcuts either. LIESTRONG

Because you can't understand that almost everyone was on the juice in cycling back then. Not everyone in baseball was on the sauce

Your logic is a joke because you don't know **** about cycling and your applying you Skip Bayless level of reasoning on the situation.

There is a reason they won't award his yellow jerseys to anyone else. And no one is really complaining about that decision

 

[dipsetgeneral]

The guy is a fraud. He can't even show his face out in public.

 

[kdawg]

The only thing I'm still not sure about is describing him as the "biggest cheat in the history of sports". I'm just not sure that's accurate.

Sure, he cheated - and it was significant for around 10 years.

But is that worse than Carl Lewis? He won a bunch of gold medals and there's a lot of suspicion - and similar to Lance a couple of covered up positives. There are a bunch of sprinters who have significant question marks against their performance.

Or Stella Walsh who was a man but competed as a woman?

There must be a bunch of others too - there are certainly other cyclists who cheated for a long time. Richard Virenque won the king of the mountains 7 times in the same era. Merckx has huge questions to answer - and failed tests. Indurain's performances make no sense. Anquetil openly talked about what he took...

I get the argument about the bullying and him enforcing the omertà but that only makes him a jerk - not a bigger cheat.

 

[beh235]

I just think his legacy that be built on lies is the part that bugs me the most. I don't care about cycling. Nobody really cares about cycling, but he was pressing teammates threatening to testify against him and messed up lives to protect his "legacy" . Such a **** move imo. Yet gets to keep the deceptive millions he made. I guess that's the American way right?

 

[RustyShackleford]

I just think his legacy that be built on lies is the part that bugs me the most. I don't care about cycling. Nobody really cares about cycling, but he was pressing teammates threatening to testify against him and messed up lives to protect his "legacy" . Such a **** move imo. Yet gets to keep the deceptive millions he made. I guess that's the American way right?

Smh.

Tons of people care about cycling brah.

 

[beh235]

I just think his legacy that be built on lies is the part that bugs me the most. I don't care about cycling. Nobody really cares about cycling, but he was pressing teammates threatening to testify against him and messed up lives to protect his "legacy" . Such a **** move imo. Yet gets to keep the deceptive millions he made. I guess that's the American way right?

Smh.

Tons of people care about cycling brah.

Yeah you're right. So much so they have a major tv contract that gets major ratings. Sure. You know what I meant in relative terms to other sports. People get so sensitive, damn.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I just think his legacy that be built on lies is the part that bugs me the most. I don't care about cycling. Nobody really cares about cycling, but he was pressing teammates threatening to testify against him and messed up lives to protect his "legacy" . Such a **** move imo. Yet gets to keep the deceptive millions he made. I guess that's the American way right?

Smh.

Tons of people care about cycling brah.

Yeah you're right. So much so they have a major tv contract that gets major ratings. Sure. You know what I meant in relative terms to other sports. People get so sensitive, damn.

-Yeah, they do in Europe, where most races take place.

-Plus they are on Universal Sports and a recap of major races on NBC

-Formula One doesn't have a major TV deal or draw bug ratings in America either.

-I'm not being sensitive, you're just being ignorant

 

[beh235]

I just think his legacy that be built on lies is the part that bugs me the most. I don't care about cycling. Nobody really cares about cycling, but he was pressing teammates threatening to testify against him and messed up lives to protect his "legacy" . Such a **** move imo. Yet gets to keep the deceptive millions he made. I guess that's the American way right?

Smh.

Tons of people care about cycling brah.

Yeah you're right. So much so they have a major tv contract that gets major ratings. Sure. You know what I meant in relative terms to other sports. People get so sensitive, damn.

-Yeah, they do in Europe, where most races take place.

-Plus they are on Universal Sports and a recap of major races on NBC

-Formula One doesn't have a major TV deal or draw bug ratings in America either.

-I'm not being sensitive, you're just being ignorant

In terms of major American sports, cycling is not important. Not ignorant. I'm well aware cycling has it's faction of fans, as they do line the streets in Europe to watch. I know it's on Universal but you have to scan forever to find the damn channel, just ask hockey fans. I swear dudes be waiting to yell at somebody here . Relax man, I'm far from ignorant.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I just think his legacy that be built on lies is the part that bugs me the most. I don't care about cycling. Nobody really cares about cycling, but he was pressing teammates threatening to testify against him and messed up lives to protect his "legacy" . Such a **** move imo. Yet gets to keep the deceptive millions he made. I guess that's the American way right?

Smh.

Tons of people care about cycling brah.

Yeah you're right. So much so they have a major tv contract that gets major ratings. Sure. You know what I meant in relative terms to other sports. People get so sensitive, damn.

-Yeah, they do in Europe, where most races take place.

-Plus they are on Universal Sports and a recap of major races on NBC

-Formula One doesn't have a major TV deal or draw bug ratings in America either.

-I'm not being sensitive, you're just being ignorant

In terms of major American sports, cycling is not important. Not ignorant. I'm well aware cycling has it's faction of fans, as they do line the streets in Europe to watch. I know it's on Universal but you have to scan forever to find the damn channel, just ask hockey fans. I swear dudes be waiting to yell at somebody here . Relax man, I'm far from ignorant.

Brah I just pointed out you said something that was incorrect. Only thing I said that could be even remotely classified as an attack was "SMH", but you're acting like I'm going off or something. I'm calmly pointing out an error.

Only after the fact you're now saying "yeah I know this" "I know that..." If you were talking about Americans, you should have qualified your first statement and said America, or your second statement and said America. It took me pointing out the sports world is bigger than America for you to be on that "oh I know " steez

C'mon brah. You're the one being sensitive, condescending and defensive.

 

[beh235]

Yeah you right.....

 

[gameover2]

I really don't give a shhh. Lance Armstrong has inspired people cancer and that's all that matters to me. I have family and friends who have had cancer and Lance's story was a huge inspiration to them in their own battles.

 

[kdawg]

In terms of major American sports, cycling is not important. Not ignorant. I'm well aware cycling has it's faction of fans, as they do line the streets in Europe to watch. I know it's on Universal but you have to scan forever to find the damn channel, just ask hockey fans. I swear dudes be waiting to yell at somebody here . Relax man, I'm far from ignorant.

It's lucky we're not discussing "major American sports then". I suppose by your logic soccer is also not a popular sport.

It was clearly an ignorant comment - not offensive or implying that you are stupid, just that you don't know what you're talking about in this context.

 

[beh235]

In terms of major American sports, cycling is not important. Not ignorant. I'm well aware cycling has it's faction of fans, as they do line the streets in Europe to watch. I know it's on Universal but you have to scan forever to find the damn channel, just ask hockey fans. I swear dudes be waiting to yell at somebody here . Relax man, I'm far from ignorant.

It's lucky we're not discussing "major American sports then". I suppose by your logic soccer is also not a popular sport.

It was clearly an ignorant comment - not offensive or implying that you are stupid, just that you don't know what you're talking about in this context.

Assumptions...nevermind

 

[dajoka004]

Lance won a World Championship (which by the looks of the testimoney, he might have won clean) and before he got cancer and rode in tours. He was an elite cyclist. GFTO wit he wasn't **** talk

Doping didn't make Lance a beast, his hard work did. All his competition was on the juice too, he had a more talented rival (with a equally strong team) who he consistently gave the business because he out worked him.

He completely changed the way he rode, both in climbing and time time trialing (a big ******g deal at the time). He popularized the high cadence low gear time trialing style which a lot of dudes adopted. Brad Wiggins damn near model his riding style after Lance to be able to win his Tour. Contador adopted the style to and is the only reason why he can beat Andy Schlek head-to-head.

Lance took PEDs to be able to have a chance, his hard work made him a winner.

Lance's arrogance was his downfall, but none of his accomplishments should be question. It was a fair fight

Lance has been accused of bribing other cyclists to let him win races dating back to 1993. He has been accused of trying to bribe the USADA and UCI officials to cover up positive tests. That's what you call a fair fight?

 

[kdawg]

Lance won a World Championship (which by the looks of the testimoney, he might have won clean) and before he got cancer and rode in tours. He was an elite cyclist. GFTO wit he wasn't **** talk

Doping didn't make Lance a beast, his hard work did. All his competition was on the juice too, he had a more talented rival (with a equally strong team) who he consistently gave the business because he out worked him.

He completely changed the way he rode, both in climbing and time time trialing (a big ******g deal at the time). He popularized the high cadence low gear time trialing style which a lot of dudes adopted. Brad Wiggins damn near model his riding style after Lance to be able to win his Tour. Contador adopted the style to and is the only reason why he can beat Andy Schlek head-to-head.

Lance took PEDs to be able to have a chance, his hard work made him a winner.

Lance's arrogance was his downfall, but none of his accomplishments should be question. It was a fair fight

Lance has been accused of bribing other cyclists to let him win races dating back to 1993. He has been accused of trying to bribe the USADA and UCI officials to cover up positive tests. That's what you call a fair fight?

"Bribing" the other riders isn't a big deal - that's always happened, just part of the sport. Teams would make pacts and alliances and occasionally people would work together - saying I'll give you 5k if we ride together and you let me take the race/stage points whatever. That is seen to be better than them starting to play games and both losing when the sprint teams catch them.

Lance's accusations about that go back to when he was trying to win 3 races (I want to say sponsored by Amstel but it was a long time ago) and he had 2. Supposedly he offered a guy in the breakaway something like $100k to let him win - the prize for the race was less than that but there was a bonus for winning all 3 which was $1,000,000 - just basic economics for both of them.

Bribing the UCI is a whole different issue - and actually looks worse on them than him IMO. McQuaid's days are hopefully numbered.

USADA turned down his money recently so they still have the moral high ground.

 

[dajoka004]

"Bribing" the other riders isn't a big deal - that's always happened, just part of the sport. Teams would make pacts and alliances and occasionally people would work together - saying I'll give you 5k if we ride together and you let me take the race/stage points whatever. That is seen to be better than them starting to play games and both losing when the sprint teams catch them.

Lance's accusations about that go back to when he was trying to win 3 races (I want to say sponsored by Amstel but it was a long time ago) and he had 2. Supposedly he offered a guy in the breakaway something like $100k to let him win - the prize for the race was less than that but there was a bonus for winning all 3 which was $1,000,000 - just basic economics for both of them.

Bribing the UCI is a whole different issue - and actually looks worse on them than him IMO. McQuaid's days are hopefully numbered.

USADA turned down his money recently so they still have the moral high ground.

All news to me. How do people follow a sport where people pay each other to lose? A real athlete would NEVER not try to win.

 

[kdawg]

Basically because it's about losing the battle to win the war. A stage race is a funny thing and you can't win every day - so you pick and choose. It's just physically just not possible so you concentrate on certain parts and give away time at others. Small teams who have no chance at the whole thing will be given little parts to keep them happy - and it's not a pity thing, just realisation that it's a long race.

I'm sure there must be other similar things in other sports - can't think of one off the top of me head though.

 

[RustyShackleford]

"Bribing" the other riders isn't a big deal - that's always happened, just part of the sport. Teams would make pacts and alliances and occasionally people would work together - saying I'll give you 5k if we ride together and you let me take the race/stage points whatever. That is seen to be better than them starting to play games and both losing when the sprint teams catch them.

Lance's accusations about that go back to when he was trying to win 3 races (I want to say sponsored by Amstel but it was a long time ago) and he had 2. Supposedly he offered a guy in the breakaway something like $100k to let him win - the prize for the race was less than that but there was a bonus for winning all 3 which was $1,000,000 - just basic economics for both of them.

Bribing the UCI is a whole different issue - and actually looks worse on them than him IMO. McQuaid's days are hopefully numbered.

USADA turned down his money recently so they still have the moral high ground.

All news to me. How do people follow a sport where people pay each other to lose? A real athlete would NEVER not try to win.

You making it sound way worst than it is. If you understood the dynamics sport it is not that big a deal, actually kinda petty in most cases

Guys do it for a lil money, to help out their friends, to cut deals for support on a different stage or race.

It would be like a low level Nascar driver letting Tony Stewart pass him on the final lap to get more points for the chase. Then next weekend Tony Stewart drives in support for that guys team in a Nationwide Series Race or helps him get position in a next Nascar race.

 

[sir charles]

He is going to be on oprah tonight at 9 talking about this and livestrong.

 

[dajoka004]

You making it sound way worst than it is. If you understood the dynamics sport it is not that big a deal, actually kinda petty in most cases

Guys do it for a lil money, to help out their friends, to cut deals for support on a different stage or race.

It would be like a low level Nascar driver letting Tony Stewart pass him on the final lap to get more points for the chase. Then next weekend Tony Stewart drives in support for that guys team in a Nationwide Series Race or helps him get position in a next Nascar race.

Does Tony Stewart pay guys to fall back?

 

[kdawg]

Interview on live now. Amazing stuff.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Wow, didn't think I'd ever hear that.

 

[Deleted member 38182]

What did he say?