[:: LAKERS 2014 THREAD | POLL: Who Should Coach Next Year? ::]

[CP1708]

new poll question:

most obnoxious poster in the thread

Only one of us in here didn't turn in our fan application

I never even applied. I just put their name in my sig and ran with it.

Were we supposed to sign something? Hypocrite oath or something like that?

 

[darthska]

Okay, my Initial response may have been short, sensitive, or unnecessary... However you want to interpret it. (I'm not being sarcastic, it really may have been one or all of those things).

I gotchu. And next time instead of the first initial response coming off that way, it would be better served to go right into my thoughts and elaborate so that we don't have to have the Initial back and forth that we did.

Would that make a difference? Because if the issue is I should of just posted my extension of the topic and started the comparison with a valid explanation instead of just a vague statement, then i can acknowledge that is a good point and I will make a better effort to do so next time.

Or all in all, are you saying that the comparison shouldn't have been made in any shape or form, whether it was thorough or short?

Me personally, I don't see any reason to bring up another player. Rarely, RARELY will you see me initiate comparisons.

And while manup is right about paying no mind to people who don't like the way you post, my responses weren't about the way you post.

Who you are isn't why I responded.

Your post history isn't why I responded.

I responded... because what was said... had nothing to do with Lebron.

I continued to respond because you were suggesting that it was outlandish of me to refuse to engage in a Lebron comparison.

Has nothing to do with who you are, how you post, how often you criticize Kobe, what you had for breakfast, pro/anti-MDA, how often you engage in debates vs. how often you cop out, your opinion of the church, your age, shoe size, or favorite cereal; none of that.

Just had to do with the bringing up of Lebron when no one was comparing anything, and then insisting that it be made into a comparison because comparisons are made all the time.

Oh, and the snide remark about "Thanks for the thought provoking reply." That set me off, because I was typing a formative reply as you were typing that.

 

[pmatic]

Was this posted?

Lakers' Mitch Kupchak on Kobe Bryant, Phil Jackson, more

Mitch Kupchak looks no different this year than any other.

Same understated demeanor. Same pragmatic approach to this job as Los Angeles Lakers general manager that he has had since 2000. Same penchant for avoiding the panic button like the plague.

So as he sat in the Staples Center media room on Tuesday, picking ever so slowly at the salad and salmon in front of him before the a loss to the Houston Rockets that sealed his team's fate as the worst of the Los Angeles era, he wasn't about to add any flair to a situation that has been so flammable of late.

Less drama. More patience. Kupchak, who first joined the Lakers as a player in 1981 and has been so underrated and overshadowed for so long since starting his post-playing career here in 1986, isn't about to change his successful ways now no matter how much has changed around him.

Phil Jackson won't be coming back, as his recent attempts to return eventually led to his hiring as New York Knicks team president on a five-year, $60 million deal. The late Jerry Buss has been gone for more than year now, with Kupchak, Jim Buss, Jeanie Buss and the rest still ironing out all the wrinkles that inevitably come with the passing of a legendary owner.

But Kupchak, who has four championships to his credit and no intention of shooting for anything less now, remains. On the night that news of his multiyear extension was first reported by ESPN, Kupchak sat down for an extensive interview with USA TODAY Sports to discuss the storied franchise and its uncertain future.

He may not be different, but he fully expects the current climate to change over time. Yet as he knows as much as anyone, it's just a matter of how long it might take.

Q: Your fans are going through culture shock right now. They've had a good run, but this generation hasn't seen a season like this.

A: Well, I don't know how you define 'generation.' I guess you could say that, but 10 years ago we had a year like this. But we haven't had a year like this in the last six or seven years, that's for sure. But we've had a bunch of years like this since I've been here. I've been here since '81, and there were three or four years in the early '90s, and then we had that year in '04. But we haven't had a year like this in eight or nine years, that's true.

Q: So that being said, Mitch, what's your outlook? Is it a situation where you have that experience from the past and you'll apply it here and move forward with confidence that this too shall pass, or where is your head at?

A: I'm confident that over time, that we're going to be able to assemble a team that's competitive, fun to watch. The advantages that this franchise and this city have always had remain, which is our fan base, it's a great city, players like playing here, there are a lot of diverse components of this city that attract players. The organization itself, its legacy. So those things don't change. Now the collective bargaining agreement changed considerably (after the 2011 lockout) the playing field. That's just the way the owners wanted it, and as a manager all we've ever said is just give us the rules and we'll play with the rules. But for example, when we signed Shaquille O'Neal (in 1996), Orlando made an offer and we topped it, and then Orlando topped it, and then we traded two players and got more cap room and then we topped it. They could have topped our offer and they chose not to.

So it could have kept going back and forth because there was no max salary, and there was no home-team advantage — 7½ percent (annual) raises versus four (percent), a five-year deal versus a four-year deal, those rules didn't exist (the current CBA gives the incumbent team this edge). So the playing field is considerably different. But having said all that, our advantages remain the same. And considering where a lot of teams have ended up in this kind of position, we have a lot of flexibility going forward. We don't have a lot of players that are good players but not great players who are on long-term deals. Those kinds of contracts can sometimes bury an organization for four or five years. Going forward it's pretty clean, so it's up to us to use that money wisely. We are going to have a good (draft) pick this year, so those are the advantages that we have. The short answer is that yes, I'm hoping to be very competitive in a year or two, but the key really is over time.

Q: I hear you on all of that but want to ask you about those advantages you guys have with the brand that comes with the Lakers and the history. If you combine the new CBA and the fact that (late Lakers owner Jerry) Buss is no longer with us, I think you'd probably agree it's an unsettling time for a lot of your fans. They don't have the confidence level and the personal history with Jim and Jeanie (Buss) running this.

A: I think that's natural. Dr. Buss passed away a year ago, and although he wasn't part of the day-to-day for four or five years before that, I think everybody took great comfort in knowing that the tough decisions — which may be one a year or two a year, whether it's on the business side or the basketball side — you can go to Dr. Buss and fall back on him.

Q: But the fans are one thing. Does him being gone cut into your ability to get players' attention when it comes to the perception of the franchise now?

A: You know something? I don't think players think that way. I was a player many, many years ago, and I didn't think that way. I knew who Dr. Buss was, but he wasn't really a factor other than he wanted me to come to L.A. At that point, he made a very fair offer and the city of Los Angeles — I was happy in Washington but I had the opportunity to come to L.A. Play with Magic, play with Kareem, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Wilt Chamberlain. To me, that's what I thought about as a player. I didn't really say, 'Oh, it's Dr. Buss. I've got to go play for this guy.

Q: But you know the idea, that narrative that it's not the same Lakers anymore, that Dr. Buss did things a certain way and Jim and Jeanie can't figure out exactly how the power structure is going to work.

A: That's a process, and we are making progress. You can't lose the (key figure) of the organization as Dr. Buss, and then all of a sudden function without any, I guess, perceived criticism. You know, if we're having the season two years ago that we're having this year, and Dr. Buss passed away a year ago, none of this would be happening right now.

Q: None of what?

A: The controversy, the speculation. It's only because we're losing, and we're not losing because Dr. Buss passed away and made a bad decision, OK? We're losing because by and large, we haven't had a team to field all year long. So I think Dr. Buss' passing coupled with the season we're having is, for obvious reasons, leading fans — and the media either leads or follows suit — to run with this thing. Take it and run with it. If we're 55-20 right now, nobody is talking about anything, about Dr. Buss passing away.

Q: So on my short list of things to get clarity on is the dynamic between management and Kobe. You guys give him the extension, and I think the question a lot of people have now is that — because of what he has done for the organization, because of what you think he can do in the next couple of years — you do the extension but maybe Kobe doesn't still have the same voice that he had in the past and now it's time for the bosses to be the bosses. He's the one pressing the agenda, saying he's not going to wait and be patient (during a rebuild).

A: Not really.

Q: You don't think so?

A: He had that one outburst, but I think he got caught up in all the sensation of the moment — is Phil going to stay or is he going to go? He wants the same thing we want, which is to win as much as possible as soon as possible. I meet with him. (It's) not on a regular basis, but in the last two or three months we have met several times, and he gets it.

Q: Is that the norm or is that more than normal?

A: Well, it's more than normal because he's more available. He's hurt. I see him in the locker room, we talk. So that's all that was. That's all it was.

Q: Will he factor in on the decision about Mike?

A: We will not consult with him. No, we won't consult with him.

Q: Because when he was asked about Mike last week, the perception was that he didn't go to bat for him publicly. That started the storyline of "Well, Mike's not coming back because it doesn't seem like Kobe wants him back."

A: We won't consult with him. Our decisions going forward — we're not going to do knee-jerk stuff. We'll let the season end, and take some time. We've got a lot of injuries and surgeries to sort through. That's a lot to accomplish. We have the draft coming up.

Q: Do you have clarity on that (D'Antoni) decision yet?

A: No. No. In fact, I told Jimmy let's get to the end season, take some time off…then review the season. Look at our roster. I mean we have a plan. We've aligned our contracts in such a way where we're at a position where we're not financially stuck. But there's a lot we don't know. We don't know where we're going to get our pick. Are we going to be sixth, are we going to be eighth, are we going to be two or three? We don't know. We know who may be a free agent, but we don't know for sure until June 30.

So we know a lot, and we're set up to take advantage of the situations — whether it's to make a trade, take back a player, get a good draft choice, pursue free agency. But once again, it's a different world than it was 20 years ago. And as much as we'd like to be very competitive and competing for a championship next year, it may or may not happen, ok?

Q: So how's Kobe going to handle that?

A: He'll be fine. He's got no choice. He'll be fine. When we lose, he'll rant and rave and be upset and be hot and won't talk to anybody, but that's the way it is. You've got to take the good with the bad.

Q: How have you taken this year on a personal level?

A: It's a challenging year. From a basketball point of view, I've been ok. I really have. It gets to a point in the season where — I mean we obviously didn't expect Steve Nash to break his (lower leg bone) in the second game of the season this year, and he hasn't been the same player since. And I liked the group that we put together to start the season, despite being a lot of one-year guys. We started out, had a great camp, were playing fun basketball. Kobe had yet to come back, Steve was still working his way into it. I never thought we'd win 60 games. I'm thinking we could get into the 40s, get into the playoffs. And for a year where we had set it up to be in position going forward, that would have been pretty good.

But then Steve can't play and Kobe breaks his knee, and that starts it. Really at that point, other than getting through the trade deadline, there was really nothing to do. There was really nothing that we could do about it, that I could do about it, so there's a certain calmness that goes with that. Media, and the frustration with the fans — you know, by and large I think our fans have been pretty good…I don't think — other than those few people who get really emotional, that one person who calls the postgame show every day for like three weeks — I don't think it's a thousand people. I think it's the same two or three people. And it makes (the media's) job more interesting and more fun. It just does.

Q: But with all the talk about Phil here, those people don't often talk about how you're still here and what you've accomplished. Does that ever hit your ego, that idea that there's not more talk about "In Mitch we trust"?

A: Well the people that I need to know trust me, and they made it clear that they do. I understand from the public's point of view that Kupchak doesn't hold a candle to Jackson. Once again, it's a good story so that didn't really bother me. But the people in the organization certainly — Jimmy, and I know Jeanie — trust me too. And for over 30 years, Dr. Buss showed incredible trust and loyalty to me. So to me, that's what was important. That was it.

Q: Was there any internal discussion about Phil coming back, and where did you stand on that? How did that go?

A: Yeah. Yeah. I mean there was nothing formal. This went on for a year or two.

Q: But the most recent one.

A: Well I don't know when the most recent one was. We discussed a year or two ago about how could we — and this was Jimmy and I and I know he may have discussed it with his family — and it was open for discussion. And it was kind of a standing understanding, but I think Jeanie said it best two weeks ago. At the end of the day, there was no position for a person of his stature.

Q: What does that mean? Can you translate that? Because what it sounds like to me is that Phil is a larger-than-life figure and if he's coming he wants final say. Was that a factor?

A: Well I'm not sure that it got to that, but what we talked about was involvement and being a piece, a part of it. But based on where he ended up and what he got, it's easy to see why he did what he did. It's a no-brainer. Before you even get to the money, he got a wonderful — a challenging — but a wonderful opportunity. Logistically, he has got to work it out but, um, you know, it's one of those things where I'm not sure if it's what he was looking for but when it came on the table you can't turn it around.

Q: And that's the thing. Everything I heard at the time was that this is where he was trying to get back to.

A: Yeah. But now, you say, 'I've got a chance to be the guy, to be exactly what I want to be and on top of that they're going to pay me this, this, and this. It's just too good.

Q: You can't talk about free agents, but is it accurate that you're not going to reach for band-aid type player, that if a LeBron (James) or a (Carmelo Anthony)-type player aren't available, that you don't just do something to do something and that's where the patience comes into play.

A: Well, obviously we're not going to share our plan with you, OK? Our goal is not to go 41-41. That's not our goal. Our goal is to be considerably better than that. And maybe we can do it in a year, or maybe it takes two or three years, OK? Any of those scenarios would be wonderful scenarios. I mean there have been teams — seven or eight teams in the NBA who have never even been to the Finals of the NBA and they've been around 30 or 40 years.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...tract-extension-los-angeles-jim-buss/7496069/

The underlying message that Kobe will be given no say in any moves.

 

[darthska]

I was moreso talking about the selfishness of being ok w/ crippling the franchise by that contract. And we've heard him defend it w/ statements like (paraphrased) "It's about what I've done for this franchise" and "Millionairres making money off our backs while we get pennies? Naaaah"

(no, his actual words were nothing close to those specific words, but yes, he has said quotes relaying those same sentiments)

I hear ya.

I hate his contract, and have been clear on that, but in respect to what he is saying about owners vs players, he is absolutely true and correct.

He is 100000000% correct in regard to how much money these owners/teams make, especially off the players like Kobe, Durant, LeBron, and what they get paid.

Look at Jerry Buss himself, saying that Kobe is worth maybe 75 million a year, and Kobe gets 25. LeBron makes 16 million this year. Think how much he makes for the Heat. Bron sold 300 million for Nike, and got 7.5 percent of that.

LeBron and Kobe work their balls off, put their bodies thru hell, in their "off" time they have doctors, trainers, etc working round the clock on their nagging injuries, to have them ready for the next game, and at the end of the day, a dude in a suit collects 50-250 million a year off them, and then we, as fans, ask them to take a paycut.

I hate his contract. With every fiber in my being.

But I hate Stern, the NBA, the CBA, and the owners even more BECAUSE of his contract.

No, I agree w/ him.

But regardless of how much money is made off their backs:

- he ain't suffering financially. I have TWO jobs, and I am worth... FAAAAAR more than I'm compensated. Trust. But in the end, I'm provided for. I understand that it's the nature of capitalism that someone is making money off my efforts. 'S just the way it is (no Pac).

-  there is a LIMIT to how much can be paid to a roster. You know this. Hell, I've asked you questions to clarify some of the rules. So if he's netting $300 mil per day for the Lakers, the rules (which we all curse and slander and despise, but still exist) limit how much of that he can be given with respect to the roster.

Give him a stipend or something. Buy him a house or a Lambo or something, Iono. 

 Retirement fund?

 

[licensed to ball]

Oh, and the snide remark about "Thanks for the thought provoking reply." That set me off, because I was typing a formative reply as you were typing that.

Ahhh. So that's what lit the fire. That's what this is all about.

jk.

But nah, I feel you.
I really thought you were leaving it at ">>>>," which is what set me off

Guess I should wait 5 minutes for a follow up post next time before I give my sarcastic remarks.

It's funny because you say that we wouldn't be able to tolerate you in person, but my sarcasm is "filtered" here too. My girl hates my excessive sarcastic responses it's not as clean as it is here either. So if it's able to get under your skin here I'm like man you really wouldn't like the way I talk in person

 

[darthska]

Make up sex? 

 

[rck3sactown]

 

[darthska]

 

[kal-el-8]

 

[CP1708]

I read a few people I trust last night saying they felt good about Mitch, and I have to admit, after reading that article, Mitch said a lot of things that does make me feel better.

I'm still leery, and I am concerned his track record has hit the skids a bit after the new CBA, but maybe he will take his time and get the direction going again.


Jeannie mentioned something a while back that struck me. They never got to farewell tour Magic.

Now I look over at Jeter, he's farewell touring like hell right now, and it's April.

In the next 2 years, Kobe will pass MJ on the scoring list, putting us front and center in the NBA universe again, record be damned, and then the year after, it will be his final game at __, and at __, and against __, and yet again, we will be all over the front pages of everything. Kobe's career will get the closure, that Magic never got.

And deservedly so. Magic, and Kobe both deserve that. Kareem did get it.

So while I hate the damn contract, and the "slowing" down of rebuilding, if Mitch is merely clearing some room and letting Kobe finish out his 20, then assessing the NBA landscape and how to get there (Love, Durant, at some point Anthony Davis) then these years could be like the Smush years. Add a piece here, nab a piece there, get close, and then strike at a big fish.


If that's Mitch's goal, then I will happily admit I was wrong and Mitch has done ok, even after a few missteps. I don't agree with every move he's made (or not made) but if this is his plan, I can dig it.

But I'm watching Mitch, don't let me down dude.

 

[licensed to ball]

 

[grandtheftbike]

Make up sex? 

That's all I'm saying.....[emoji]8482[/emoji]

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

That kupchak interview was on point in so many ways

In Mitch I trust

 

[darthska]

Oh, no... nooo, not with each other! You thought I meant... because... nah, man.

I meant... I'm saying... like, I got a girl, you, maybe, got a girl, I don't know, maybe not, whatever. But, you know... I grab my girl, you grab your girl... you know... make up sex.

Isn't that... I thought... you didn't think I meant... nah, man.

I would never... suggest... that... we... because... that would just... 

Where's Yeezus to make sense of all this?

 

[darthska]

Make up sex? 

That's all I'm saying.....[emoji]8482[/emoji]

 

[lovehateself]

still gets me @Kal-El-8  

 

[kal-el-8]

 

[lovehateself]

the gif

 

[kal-el-8]

 

[kingjaffejo]

So we currently have a ~20% chance to land the #1 pick ....I don't feel too bad about those odds lol

 

[darthska]

I read a few people I trust last night saying they felt good about Mitch, and I have to admit, after reading that article, Mitch said a lot of things that does make me feel better.

I'm still leery, and I am concerned his track record has hit the skids a bit after the new CBA, but maybe he will take his time and get the direction going again.


Jeannie mentioned something a while back that struck me. They never got to farewell tour Magic.

Now I look over at Jeter, he's farewell touring like hell right now, and it's April.

In the next 2 years, Kobe will pass MJ on the scoring list, putting us front and center in the NBA universe again, record be damned, and then the year after, it will be his final game at __, and at __, and against __, and yet again, we will be all over the front pages of everything. Kobe's career will get the closure, that Magic never got.

And deservedly so. Magic, and Kobe both deserve that. Kareem did get it.

So while I hate the damn contract, and the "slowing" down of rebuilding, if Mitch is merely clearing some room and letting Kobe finish out his 20, then assessing the NBA landscape and how to get there (Love, Durant, at some point Anthony Davis) then these years could be like the Smush years. Add a piece here, nab a piece there, get close, and then strike at a big fish.


If that's Mitch's goal, then I will happily admit I was wrong and Mitch has done ok, even after a few missteps. I don't agree with every move he's made (or not made) but if this is his plan, I can dig it.

But I'm watching Mitch, don't let me down dude.

20 years

Like, WHOA.

That's just... nobody plays sports for 20 years anymore, man, not at the level he has. Granted, he took a couple years to really BE 'Kobe', and he ain't even play this year, but still. If he goes 20... 

 

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

I actually feel better about our odds because we don't have the worst record. I know about probability and ping pong balls blah blah but it just seems the worst team never gets the top pick

 

[lovehateself]

cause

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

 

[senorroboto2k5]

Embiid officially declares for the NBA draft.

The pool gets deeper

 

[CP1708]

Only Jabari left. I doubt he stays, but need to be sure.

Wiggins
Embiid
Exum
Randle
Smart
Jabari????

With Gordon and Vonleh in there as well.


Either way, one of these guys is ours.