Israel declares War - Destruction of Gaza / Growing conflict in Middle East

“genocide must stop. kamala is complicit”

“yea yea yea…but remember trump moved the embassy to jeruselam” (which biden didn’t undo lol)

not sure that’s the burn you guys think it is

if it makes you feel better i don’t live in a swing state so my stein vote won’t be more than a protest vote (unfortunately). if i did live in a swing state id still vote for stein.

if you don’t vote for stein, you’re anti-semetic
 
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bla bla bla quack quack

Are you ever going to answer the Trolley Problem or just continue ducking it?

A trolley is running on a track that can split off to a track with 1 person tied to it, or a track with multiple persons tied to it.
The trolley is on its way to to the split. There is no outcome that prevents death, only whether the trolley kills more or less people.
You can change the track to decide if it will kill the 1 person, or the track with multiple persons. Each choice still comes with death.
Inaction likewise does not stop the trolley, in fact it may randomly shift towards the track with the most persons who will die.

Option A:

You change the track so the trolley splits off and kills the 1 person instead of the other split that would've killed multiple.

Option B:
You change the track so the trolley heads off to the track with the most deaths. (you're a psycho if you choose this btw)

Option C:
You shout at the trolley as it speeds towards the randomly selected split, or pull a lever for a trolley that isn't even on any track.
Inaction.
The trolley continues its path and for the sake of this example, the randomized split (that you had the power to change) results in the trolley splitting to the track where it proceeds to kill the most victims.
 

ahhhh the classic strategy

vote/make statements a certain way ALL YEAR to appease the donors and be as complicit in genocide when it matters-

Then right before the elections, the SQUAD plus Bernie come through with a “stop the genocide” campaign so that on the fence voters can say “i hate both sides but AT LEAST the dems have decent people like Bernie and AOC”. nothing gets done…rinse repeat

the mask has been lifted.


take your election ******** to the general politics thread.
 

22 billions of usa taxpayer money to israel.

70% of the “war on gaza” funded by you and me.
 
OR maybe he’s not trying to derail this thread with some cockamamie Trolley question when Israel is attacking HOSPITALS and kidnapping DOCTORS?


The Trolley Problem question I posed directly relates to Gaza/Israel. By your logic, shouldn't you stop posting? Shouldn't we all stop posting anything? After all, there's a genocide. Pick any moment of the day and Israel is probably committing such acts or planning them.

I guess some people's brains can't handle multiple thoughts. Those of us who are properly informed are well aware of Israel's continuing horrific crimes against humanity.
Me, you or anyone here posting is not going to stop Israel from continuing to exterminate innocent Palestinians. The idea that someone shouldn't post because there's a genocide happening on a different continent is beyond ridiculous. It's just a really pathetic way of trying to shut down speech you don't like.

It's not hard to see why he refuses to answer the question, and no it has nothing to do with derailment or whatever.


degenerate423 degenerate423 How come you made this post in the WWE thread? Didn't you know there's a genocide going on? How will you repent for watching WWE instead of dedicating all your time to genocide coverage?
In case you needed an example to see how utterly pathetic and dumb your 'but there's a genocide!!' argument is.
https://niketalk.com/threads/2024-w...onday-night-raw.697115/page-936#post-37248140
1d641325280f5f8b84a3bb8c25379503.png
 
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Meanwhile Bibi is still under indictment for bribery and fraud charges, while also exploiting the genocide as a delay tactic in the court case.
That whole coalition is rotten to the core.
 
i agree

trump is a monster

that’s why i’m not voting for him.
If it’s a matter of choosing the sin of omission over the sin of commission, it’s worth noting that there are really only two categories of behaviors this cycle: those that contribute to the election of Donald Trump and those that won’t.


Even if you feel that working through government is a dead end, allowing Trump to take power can - and in this case almost certainly will - limit our ability to otherwise make a meaningful difference.

A conservative Supreme Court - particularly one so brazenly partisan - would be highly unlikely to invalidate Anti-BDS laws. In 2021, Republicans passed a spate of anti-protest laws in reaction to BLM and police reform activism. Given the chance, they will do the same to inhibit campus protests: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/republicans-campus-protest-law-order.html

A Republican-controlled Senate and Justice Department would likely result in the passage and enforcement of a bill similar to H.R. 6090, which would classify criticism of Zionism as a violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Trump even went so far as to promise that, if elected, he'd deport pro-Palestinian protesters.

We can either prevent him from taking office or help him.
As much as we may not like it, THAT is the choice.

The "...why?" at the end is why I'm curious how DLF DLF will respond to my trolley problem post.
I think the trolley problem analogy I made earlier on this page perfectly illustrates the logic (or rather lack thereof) of people voting third party or abstaining because of the genocide.

I believe it can be applied much more broadly than just my example to show the deeply flawed logic in voting third party or abstaining. Or rather the lack of any logic at all.
With a bit of tweaking to create an applicable analogy, I think the Trolley Problem could be applied beyond just single issue (Gaza) third party voters and abstainers.

Again for DLF DLF , would you like to share your answer to the Trolley problem?
A trolley is running on a track that can split off to a track with 1 person tied to it, or a track with multiple persons tied to it.
The trolley is on its way to to the split. There is no outcome that prevents death, only whether the trolley kills more or less people.
You can change the track to decide if it will kill the 1 person, or the track with multiple persons. Each choice still comes with death.
Inaction likewise does not stop the trolley, in fact it may randomly shift towards the track with the most persons who will die.

Option A:

You change the track so the trolley splits off and kills the 1 person instead of the other split that would've killed multiple.

Option B:
You change the track so the trolley heads off to the track with the most deaths. (you're a psycho if you choose this btw)

Option C:
You shout at the trolley as it speeds towards the randomly selected split, or pull a lever for a trolley that isn't even on any track.
Inaction.
The trolley continues its path and for the sake of this example, the randomized split (that you had the power to change) results in the trolley splitting to the track where it proceeds to kill the most victims.

The “trolley problem” is a poor metaphor in this instance, as it’s a utilitarian thought experiment that requires people to actively condemn someone to death to save a larger number of different people.

That might be analogous to this situation if voters were being asked to sacrifice the people of Gaza for some collective “greater good”and act as their executioner - hardly a moral choice.

We shouldn’t treat genocide as some inevitability that we all need to “get over” to make a calculated decision about the incalculable value of life.


Fundamentally, there are not two different tracks here, as might be the case if one candidate were better on this issue, but worse on one that affects more people, like climate change, and voters are being asked which group to sacrifice.

When it comes to Palestine, Trump is worse. It is that simple.


Benjamin Netanyahu does not believe “both sides are the same.”
West Bank annexation financier Miriam Adelson does not believe “both sides are the same.”

The choice isn’t to sacrifice Palestinian people to save some other, larger group of people because “all lives matter,” it’s about whether you’re actually serious about “by any means necessary” or if you’re all talk and prefer symbolism over substance, pride over principle.

The unpleasant reality is that one of two people will take office in January.

Netanyahu has a preference.


I’m not going to be duped into helping him realize that ambition out of spite.
 
If it’s a matter of choosing the sin of omission over the sin of commission, it’s worth noting that there are really only two categories of behaviors this cycle: those that contribute to the election of Donald Trump and those that won’t.


Even if you feel that working through government is a dead end, allowing Trump to take power can - and in this case almost certainly will - limit our ability to otherwise make a meaningful difference.

A conservative Supreme Court - particularly one so brazenly partisan - would be highly unlikely to invalidate Anti-BDS laws. In 2021, Republicans passed a spate of anti-protest laws in reaction to BLM and police reform activism. Given the chance, they will do the same to inhibit campus protests: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/republicans-campus-protest-law-order.html

A Republican-controlled Senate and Justice Department would likely result in the passage and enforcement of a bill similar to H.R. 6090, which would classify criticism of Zionism as a violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Trump even went so far as to promise that, if elected, he'd deport pro-Palestinian protesters.

We can either prevent him from taking office or help him.
As much as we may not like it, THAT is the choice.



The “trolley problem” is a poor metaphor in this instance, as it’s a utilitarian thought experiment that requires people to actively condemn someone to death to save a larger number of different people.

That might be analogous to this situation if voters were being asked to sacrifice the people of Gaza for some collective “greater good”and act as their executioner - hardly a moral choice.

We shouldn’t treat genocide as some inevitability that we all need to “get over” to make a calculated decision about the incalculable value of life.


Fundamentally, there are not two different tracks here, as might be the case if one candidate were better on this issue, but worse on one that affects more people, like climate change, and voters are being asked which group to sacrifice.

When it comes to Palestine, Trump is worse. It is that simple.


Benjamin Netanyahu does not believe “both sides are the same.”
West Bank annexation financier Miriam Adelson does not believe “both sides are the same.”

The choice isn’t to sacrifice Palestinian people to save some other, larger group of people because “all lives matter,” it’s about whether you’re actually serious about “by any means necessary” or if you’re all talk and prefer symbolism over substance, pride over principle.

The unpleasant reality is that one of two people will take office in January.

Netanyahu has a preference.


I’m not going to be duped into helping him realize that ambition out of spite.
I have to partially disagree there. The point of the trolley problem metaphor was to illustrate the absence of logic in pro-Palestine Jill Stein voters or abstainers.
The trolley symbolizes the uncomfortable reality that inaction does not make any logical sense and can result in the worst outcome for a position, in this case the fate of the Palestinians.

The problem is of course as simple as Trump undisputably being far more pro-Israel than Kamala and the Democrats. Yet there are single issue pro-Palestine voters choosing inaction, which could lead to the worst outcome for the Palestinians. Inaction directly contradicts the Pro-Palestine stance.

That's what the trolley metaphor was for. To show that inaction (third party voting or abstaining) has no logical basis and that it may contribute to an even worse fate for the Palestinians.

It's rather obvious why DLF didn't want to answer the trolley question.
He'd be faced with the unfortunate reality that inaction has absolutely zero basis in logic and is arguably anti-Palestine.
Voting for Jill Stein isn't going to change anything. Those are the actions of someone blinded by privilege and unwilling to deal with an uncomfortable reality.

Voting third party while proclaiming to be a single issue pro-Palestine voter is patently absurd. I do view that as an anti-Palestine position, albeit not maliciously but under the delusion of privilege and unwillingness to confront an uncomfortable reality.
 
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what the past year has exposed for me is the media complicity with the state departments toxic foreign policy

even as someone who should NOT have been fooled, they had even someone like ME believing muslims (might) have terroristic tendancies.

simple research lead me to the LITERAL opposite.

every single thing they told me about muslims on cnn since 2001 has actually been a confession. freaking mind blowing.
 
In regards to voting, ya'll can vote for who you want and I do not know why there is this shaming voters which party to vote for as we do not live in a liberatory or fully and authentic democratic system. We live in Western oligarchies that serve the ruling elite and corporations.

However, the critique on Biden and Kamala is very legitimate and valid since they are the ones currently funding and abetting a genocide with our tax dollars, and everything is interconnected globally because we are in the belly of the beast that are exploited and used to serve the interests of these genocidal maniacs and capitalism.

The Global South are the ones dying and sacrificing to fight the Empire and imperialism's carnage, while over here us in the belly of the beast also are forced to support their exploitation and mass murder.

So, vote for who you want, but understand why many don't believe in the 2-party settler colonial genocidal system anymore and will vote differently. If Trump gets elected, oh well, who's fault was that? The Democrats. Frankly, they're all pretty much just fighting for rule and power, and we have to do our best to organize as a community and build OUTSIDE these systems.
 
"At 6:11 AM CT Bob Woodward disclosed on MSNBC, excerpts of notes reporting a closed-doors meeting this summer between Kamala Harris & Benjamin Netanyahu. Woodward statement:

[Kamala] was tough with Netanyahu, in a way that he did not like at all, and then she’s saying, Look at what’s going on in Gaza - is unconscionable an unconscionable humanitarian disaster. Then she went out to the Press and said exactly the exact same thing and said, I will not be silent. Netanyahu was furious, but he knew she may be the next President of the United States; so he didn't say anything. So her willingness to go get in his face, the motto “I will not be silent” is one of the things she ought to wear around her neck with pride."

 
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