Israel declares War - Destruction of Gaza / Growing conflict in Middle East

[me love nutella]

A lot of westernized and colonial mentality in here....ya, that goes for us children of immigrants and first and second generation immigrants too. that internalize colonial mentality.

I don't know why so many of you take the Western narrative and ride for these Western leaders and elites who head the Empire. Some of you refuse to believe the world is upside down and that the worst violators of nature and human rights never go to jail, they hold the keys.

The West and its bootlickers for Empire think they have absolute moral authority, when the West is the most destructive and dangerous in its destruction and collapse of the entire globe.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Of course, the American imperialists and colonizers are not the boogeymans right? You know, the American government and military going around pillaging, plundering, exploiting resources and killing people to death, and also going around and planting their military bases all over the world engineering their imperialist powers and domination on other people, even supporting and abetting dictatorships, militas and mercenaries and then surprised they get the blowback?

exactly so just like Sinwar.

Both leaders who engineered an flashy assaults against a bunch of civilians of a much more powerful nation,
which resulted untold death and destruction for the people they allegedly represent.

you may agree with Bin Ladens or Sinwars justifications that's fine.,
but the comparison is very clear and obvious.

You mean which Israel has been genociding and been ethnically cleansing and slaughtering to death? That's Israel's doing. Not Hamas.
Then again, you were the one many months ago claiming what's happening is not genocide. So, are you blaming the Palestinian resistance for the genocide that is being committed on them?

I don't understand this line of argument, your responding with questions to avoid addressing the obvious;

40k dead, untold death and destruction, retrenchment of Netanyahu, and no closer to a state or peace or anything is not a win for the Palestinian people.

where is the win?

 

[Belgium]

What's with this whole propaganda about some leaders of Hamas living in luxury in Qatar? What's it for? To discredit Hamas? Like some of the U.S. and Israeli leaders don't live in luxury????

How many of you were believing that Sinwar was hiding away in Qatar in luxury and or holed up with some explosive belt surrounded by hostages, when turns out the man was on the battlefield and went out like a warrior? Some woman in Gaza (speak to her on Instagram) told me actually Sinwar was fighting since October of last year. She said they used to see him on the field in SANDALS fighting the IDF with his resistance fighters on the front lines never abandoning the Palestinians. How many of the Western leaders would be fighting themselves, or sending their sons and daughters, to battle for these wars and would never step foot to put their bodies to sacrifice?

I will tell you Belgium , many of you do not understand the Palestinians and their sacrifice for their lands. Don't some of you understand Palestinians are already dead when they are born in Gaza? Many of them, if they had to choose a way to die, it is to die for their land and sacrifice for it. Sure, not all of them have that sentiment, but many of them do. I am speaking to you like a Palestinian, and some one who knows some who came here fresh from Gaza.

I am not saying this is you, but for many others look down on martyrdom of indigenous peoples fighting and sacrificing to defend their homes and lands, but then go celebrate their military industrial complex sending hundreds of thousands of their troops to fight the wars of their ruling elite for money and resources, and to die that way is considered sacrifice and to be respected by colonizing and genociding others abroad. But then indigenous peoples fighting defending their homelands and occupation is not deemed worthy?

At least Sinwar was actually remaining in Gaza while proudly cheering on the genocide. Some of the others were doing it from the safety of a luxury lifestyle in Qatar.
Sinwar never moved to Qatar in the first place, he's spent his life in Gaza and roughly 20 years in an Israeli prison before being released as part of a hostage swap deal.

It's been publicly reported all along that Sinwar was and has been in Gaza, I don't see the point of the puff piece of him fighting in sandals or whatever.

There's a difference between martyrdom, and a bunch of elites glorifying the deaths of their own people from the confines of a luxury life abroad.
I'm sure the parents of people whose kids have been bombed to pieces or shot in the head are thankful for the leadership's kind words thanking them for their 'sacrifice.'

You bring up a key word. "Fighting."
Many of those civilians are not fighters, they're innocent people who have been sentenced to an even worse position than the glorified concentration camp they were living in before.

At the end of the day both Israel and Hamas are reaping what they have sown. The way Israel has treated Palestinians all these decades since its inception (which shouldn't have existed) is of course going to breed terrorism. Add in a bunch of extremely deadly conflicts inbetween and of course you're gonna end up with something like October 7th at some point.
As for Hamas, obviously Israel was going to seize such an opportunity to fully wipe Palestinians off the map once and for all. Israel's military and political ties with other nations have never been stronger, and recent history suggests genocide isn't much of an issue if you have sufficient political power (see Saudi Arabia vs Yemen).

 

[DLF]

awww. poor israeli soldiers. pray for their mental health

 

[DLF]

i feel so bad for these soldiers not dead or injured

please pray for them.

 

[DLF]

 

[me love nutella]

exactly so just like Sinwar.

Both leaders who engineered an flashy assaults against a bunch of civilians of a much more powerful nation,
which resulted untold death and destruction for the people they allegedly represent.

you may agree with Bin Ladens or Sinwars justifications that's fine.,
but the comparison is very clear and obvious.

Sinwar's Oct. 7 event was not fully illegitimate, as it was an offensive that targeted military posts and vital IDF bases outside the Gaza border. They were also able to neutralize and kill off IDF soldiers, and even kidnap IDF colonels and soldiers. As for war crimes against civilians, no one can deny that, but there's also the angle you dismiss which is how many can you say were by the IDF itself which used the Hannbal directive as reported by Israeli media, and testimonies by their own hostages, survivors and IDF, which have been verified, vs. Hamas? You are comparing this to 9/11, which fully targeted civilians and no military targets?

That isn't the same as condoning what Hamas did. It is clear the group carried out war crimes that day – not least by attacking civilians and taking them as hostages. There are plenty of things Hamas did on Oct. 7 that were legitimate under international law though, unlike 9/11, such as attacking Israeli military bases that have been enforcing the siege of Gaza for 16 years. That is the main reason why such large numbers of Israeli soldiers died that day.

Instead, the Western and Israeli narrative you take is that an all of the day's events are painted as illegitimate, all of the day’s events are blended into one giant atrocity as war crimes against civilians compared to 9/11, which is false equivalency.

I don't understand this line of argument, your responding with questions to avoid addressing the obvious;

40k dead, untold death and destruction, retrenchment of Netanyahu, and no closer to a state or peace or anything is not a win for the Palestinian people.

where is the win?

Did I say Hamas won? NO. The war isn't even over, I said Israel did not win and is not winning. A genocide and destroying civilian infrastructure as has been planned in motion for decades to commit large scale ethnic cleansing for resettlement and annexation by Israhell, is not a win to achieving military objectives of a war.

 

[me love nutella]

At least Sinwar was actually remaining in Gaza while proudly cheering on the genocide. Some of the others were doing it from the safety of a luxury lifestyle in Qatar.
Sinwar never moved to Qatar in the first place, he's spent his life in Gaza and roughly 20 years in an Israeli prison before being released as part of a hostage swap deal.

It's been publicly reported all along that Sinwar was and has been in Gaza, I don't see the point of the puff piece of him fighting in sandals or whatever.

There's a difference between martyrdom, and a bunch of elites glorifying the deaths of their own people from the confines of a luxury life abroad.
I'm sure the parents of people whose kids have been bombed to pieces or shot in the head are thankful for the leadership's kind words thanking them for their 'sacrifice.'

You bring up a key word. "Fighting."
Many of those civilians are not fighters, they're innocent people who have been sentenced to an even worse position than the glorified concentration camp they were living in before.

At the end of the day both Israel and Hamas are reaping what they have sown. The way Israel has treated Palestinians all these decades since its inception (which shouldn't have existed) is of course going to breed terrorism. Add in a bunch of extremely deadly conflicts inbetween and of course you're gonna end up with something like October 7th at some point.
As for Hamas, obviously Israel was going to seize such an opportunity to fully wipe Palestinians off the map once and for all. Israel's military and political ties with other nations have never been stronger, and recent history suggests genocide isn't much of an issue if you have sufficient political power (see Saudi Arabia vs Yemen).

Ok, let's say some Hamas leaders are living more luxurious lifestyles in Qatar, how does this differentiate them from most leaders and politicians in many countries? Including U.S., Israel, or any other country? There's even no proof of any of this about Hamas, and it all stems from American, Israeli and actually pro-Zionist Gulf state propaganda. So this justifies genocide on Palestinians and discrediting Hamas? Meanwhile, these evil Arab Gulf monarchs are drenched in oil and blood money and Netanyahu and his wife are on corrupt charges buying off luxury and brand name items using taxpayers money and some offshore accounts that are billions of dollars?

As Palestinians, we will always support the resistance. That's it and that's that. They are the ones sacrificing and bodies their bodies on the line, and us Palestinians have been slaughtered for decades no matter what we do.

It is like you all just do not seem to take in the life of a Palestinian under brutal violent occupation and oppression. Our men and women, and children have been put in jails, tortured and beaten and SA'd for DECADES, where even we cannot walk on same roads as Israeli settlers, and getting shot and giving births at checkpoints, while also under siege and starved in Gaza that the suicide rate skyrocketed years before Oct. 7th. We have already endured many compounded Oct. 7th, and for decades so many of our men have disappeared and being killed off, just for being Palestinian.

Now the world sees what Israel has been doing FOR decades to us, but this is compounded into a whole scale genocide.

 

[Brownstone]

I thought I read somewhere that the US threatened to withhold military aid if situation does not improve in the next month. While def not a hard stance this solidifies two indisputable truths from an American policy perspective:

1.) This confirms from a foreign policy standpoint what the world has known for several months now. That Israel is overstepping in their aggression and needs to work towards peace and the safety of Palestinian civilians. ITs gotten so ridiculous that our defense secretary had to threaten something like this. I would have never imagined even the threat tbh

2.) While improvement is obviously vague, it's def the toughest stance any US regime has taken since Obama. I think the public stance should be attached to specifics, dollars, time ect......

That being said, I am not a moron, of course this is an empty threat -which is why it's vague in the first place, I am not sure what anyone who thought Israeli aggression was warranted (I did) can continue to side with this indiscriminate nonsensical approach they are taking.....

 

[earldagoat]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Sinwar's Oct. 7 event was not fully illegitimate, as it was an offensive that targeted military posts and vital IDF bases outside the Gaza border. They were also able to neutralize and kill off IDF soldiers, and even kidnap IDF colonels and soldiers. As for war crimes against civilians, no one can deny that, but there's also the angle you dismiss which is how many can you say were by the IDF itself which used the Hannbal directive as reported by Israeli media, and testimonies by their own hostages, survivors and IDF, which have been verified, vs. Hamas? You are comparing this to 9/11, which fully targeted civilians and no military targets?

That isn't the same as condoning what Hamas did. It is clear the group carried out war crimes that day – not least by attacking civilians and taking them as hostages. There are plenty of things Hamas did on Oct. 7 that were legitimate under international law though, unlike 9/11, such as attacking Israeli military bases that have been enforcing the siege of Gaza for 16 years. That is the main reason why such large numbers of Israeli soldiers died that day.

Instead, the Western and Israeli narrative you take is that an all of the day's events are painted as illegitimate, all of the day’s events are blended into one giant atrocity as war crimes against civilians compared to 9/11, which is false equivalency.



Did I say Hamas won? NO. The war isn't even over, I said Israel did not win and is not winning. A genocide and destroying civilian infrastructure as has been planned in motion for decades to commit large scale ethnic cleansing for resettlement and annexation by Israhell, is not a win to achieving military objectives of a war.

you just keep going off on other tangents. whether you think it's illegitimate or partially illegitimate is totally besides the point.

things don't need to be 100% the same for a useful comparison to be drawn.

Bin Laden and Sinwar engineered and attack on civilians that leads to the death and destruction of their own people. totally comparable things. whatever one might think of Israel or whatever their subsequent actions is a separate question.

Did I say Hamas won? NO. The war isn't even over, I said Israel did not win and is not winning. A genocide and destroying civilian infrastructure as has been planned in motion for decades to commit large scale ethnic cleansing for resettlement and annexation by Israhell, is not a win to achieving military objectives of a war.

you were disagreeing with my post, my post was in response to the idea that this was a win.

40k dead is a win for the Palestinian people wut??

there are no winners in this war, other than maybe Netanyahu.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

pro Sinwar martyrdom is the most cringe, white online lame hipster ****.

 

[me love nutella]

you just keep going off on other tangents. whether you think it's illegitimate or partially illegitimate is totally besides the point.

things don't need to be 100% the same for a useful comparison to be drawn.

Bin Laden and Sinwar engineered and attack on civilians that leads to the death and destruction of their own people. totally comparable things. whatever one might think of Israel or whatever their subsequent actions is a separate question.




you were disagreeing with my post, my post was in response to the idea that this was a win.




there are no winners in this war, other than maybe Netanyahu.

I replied to your post asking if you thought the 40K was pinned on resistance as blaming it on them. Not if it's a win.

Then using your logic, how many examples can you use as pro western governments and mercenaries wreaking havoc and wars on the middle east that created blowbacks of terrorism on their soil? Do you see the mental gymnastics you are doing?

You're also comparing a reactionary and blowback of Oct. 7 that targeted military bases and IDF along with some civilians due to the oppression and siege and slaughter of Palestinians for years to 9/11 and targets of civilians with no military targets?

Like then how many Bin Laden leaders does the U.S. have? ISRAEL?

Netanyahu ain't winning either.

 

[me love nutella]

pro Sinwar martyrdom is the most cringe, white online lame hipster ****.

Lool are you for real? So much projection since the pro Western American Democrat liberals that commit and abet genocide and the Empire that just about has done the most evil to every corner on the globe and caping for western imperialism are the ones in the sunken place. But sure, go off.

 

[gry60]

Netanyahu was coming for Gaza next to attempt to dismantle Hamas and take over for annexation as per the Trump Plan and Abraham Accords.

Please post proof of this. As far as I know, prior to OCt 7th, Bibi was mostly concentrated on holding WB territories.

You think Israel did not provoke enough to let Oct. 7th happen?

"Israelis brought Oct 7th on themselves"

"Palestinians brought 40k dead on themselves"

This, right there, is why I disagree with the refusal to recognize that all participants have agency.

They cannot even seem to get past Hezbollah yet in southern Lebanon because they are getting a good whooping and incurring heavy losses.

They can't do anything because UN peacekeepers are present in Southern Lebanon, and Israel has seen that even its supporters have shown a low level of tolerance for firing on UN positions.

There isn't a lot you can do when your enemy is able to infiltrate you military supply chain to the point that they even get to touch indirect targets (that Iranian minister who also had a compromised pager).

This is the plan and has always been the plan, whether Hamas did Oct. 7th or not. There's U.S. policy papers from 2009 outlining this plan. There's even Chapter 5, titled: Leave it to Bibi: Allowing or Encouraging an Israeli Military Strike.

If you want to believe that this isn't one of many plans, suit yourself.
Plans follow policies, and when a policy is abandoned, so is the plan. Now, if you want to believe that plans are not influenced by circumstances, suit yourself too.

Also, ya, Sinwar is no Bin Laden, especially for Sinwar who's family was forcibly displaced by Zionist militias from their home in Askhelon in 1948 during the Nakba (catastrophe), when 750,000 Palestinians were kicked out of their homes. A man who was first jailed as a student for involvement in anti-occupation activism. Who then was accused of involvement in the capture and death of two Israeli soldiers and four suspected Palestinian spies, and did a 23-year stint in Israeli jail. A man who was literally a colonized and oppressed refugee seeking a national liberation struggle for the Palestinians.

Did he, or did he not orchestrate the attack on Israeli territory, without consulting the political leadership?

You don't automatically get to be great by virtue of leading a resistance movement. You still need to work towards an outcome that will benefit your people in the long term. As it stands, what concrete benefits have Palestinians gotten from military action? It isn't guerilla warfare that got them to be treated as a quasi state by the UN; it was diplomacy.

I am not saying this is you, but for many others look down on martyrdom of indigenous peoples fighting and sacrificing to defend their homes and lands

I think you greatly misunderstand those who are critical of the current Palestinian effort to achieve liberation.

India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh were also split in 1947, and rather than one country trying to reconstruct what colonialism had broken, they moved on (mostly, since India and Pakistan are still fighting over Kashmir).

Most people on Earth are from countries that were created as a result of imperialism, and most of them could make irredentist claims to restore what colonialism has broken, which is the logic behind the request of the "right to return." The reality of this is that it is ******* hard to "fix" the past. It is even harder when facing an opponent allied with the most powerful (military, economically, diplomatically) country on the planet.

At the end of the day, a people's ultimate victory is to be the one to survive, tell their stories, and live their culture. It's all good to be passionate about martyrdom, but what's the point when nobody will be left to tell the story of Palestinians?

 

[Belgium]

Ok, let's say some Hamas leaders are living more luxurious lifestyles in Qatar, how does this differentiate them from most leaders and politicians in many countries? Including U.S., Israel, or any other country? There's even no proof of any of this about Hamas, and it all stems from American, Israeli and actually pro-Zionist Gulf state propaganda. So this justifies genocide on Palestinians and discrediting Hamas? Meanwhile, these evil Arab Gulf monarchs are drenched in oil and blood money and Netanyahu and his wife are on corrupt charges buying off luxury and brand name items using taxpayers money and some offshore accounts that are billions of dollars?

As Palestinians, we will always support the resistance. That's it and that's that. They are the ones sacrificing and bodies their bodies on the line, and us Palestinians have been slaughtered for decades no matter what we do.

It is like you all just do not seem to take in the life of a Palestinian under brutal violent occupation and oppression. Our men and women, and children have been put in jails, tortured and beaten and SA'd for DECADES, where even we cannot walk on same roads as Israeli settlers, and getting shot and giving births at checkpoints, while also under siege and starved in Gaza that the suicide rate skyrocketed years before Oct. 7th. We have already endured many compounded Oct. 7th, and for decades so many of our men have disappeared and being killed off, just for being Palestinian.

Now the world sees what Israel has been doing FOR decades to us, but this is compounded into a whole scale genocide.

Not sure if all of that is directed at me specifically but if it is, you're putting words in my mouth that I never said or agree with. The point in the first place is that the Hamas leadership in Qatar cheering on the deaths of their own people, not specifically fighters but just the genocide in general, isn't much different from the likes of imperialist politicians.

My post stated that October 7th is largely a creation of Israel's own making. If not October 7th, a similar attack was bound to happen at some point sooner or later.
In the same way, it was to be expected that Israel would exploit an attack of that scale to exterminate Palestinians under the guise of eliminating Hamas, which is practically impossible unless you flatten the entirety of Gaza.

Israel is stronger than it has ever been, both in terms of military and political power, and there is no evidence to suggest Oct 7th would result in anything but a pointless bloodbath.
Saudi Arabia likewise relies on foreign military assistance and their own military has actually been defeated by the Houthis in Yemen. It resulted in nothing, only a change in strategy to just bomb and starve Yemen to death from afar. There is somewhat of a ceasefire in place but Yemen's population is now infinitely worse off than it was before the Saudi intervention in the Houthi civil war.

Even if a full agreement is reached between the Saudi coalition and the Houthis, the damage is already done. The starvation is bound to kill off a substantial part of the remaining population.

 

[DLF]

 

[earldagoat]

 

[me love nutella]

Please post proof of this. As far as I know, prior to OCt 7th, Bibi was mostly concentrated on holding WB territories.

More annexation of the WB is also what Hamas has said they consider a declaration of war. We also now hear bold talks about the Israeli far-right psychos that are pushing for resettlement in Gaza, and we see the ethnic cleansing/genocide going on in Northern Gaza to get rid as many Palestinians. This is not all just plans from the last year, this is set in motion and planned from years ahead.

Also, the Trump Plan, Abraham Accords and U.S.-Saudi pact also have to do with annexing Gaza:
After Israel Killed Hamas Leader, D.C. Pushes to Hand Palestine to Saudi Arabia

Gaza was always a thorn due to demographic threat to Israel. However, that's the game, Israel "manages" the "problem" by creating (reversible) cantons of Palestinian autonomy, then their lack of viability provokes Palestinian anger and resistance, which then becomes the justification for the "security first" approach of a permanently temporary "transition" phase. So, right now, it is just the ongoing decades of plans in motion spearheaded by Netanyahu doing the bidding not only for Israel's expansionist settler colonial project, but also corporations, pro Zionist lobbies, and their alliances.

"Israelis brought Oct 7th on themselves"

"Palestinians brought 40k dead on themselves"

This, right there, is why I disagree with the refusal to recognize that all participants have agency.

One is an expansionist genocidal settler colonial project, while the other is a national liberation struggle against occupation and oppression.

They can't do anything because UN peacekeepers are present in Southern Lebanon, and Israel has seen that even its supporters have shown a low level of tolerance for firing on UN positions.

There isn't a lot you can do when your enemy is able to infiltrate you military supply chain to the point that they even get to touch indirect targets (that Iranian minister who also had a compromised pager).

It is not only the UN peacekeepers, and Hezbollah is also giving them a good whooping too.

Hezbollah is going to be much harder to infiltrate and degrade, and it'll have to take political and social pressure to also weaken them. Israel is already brewing sectarian tensions and propaganda to re-ignite civil war proportions in the country.

If you want to believe that this isn't one of many plans, suit yourself.
Plans follow policies, and when a policy is abandoned, so is the plan. Now, if you want to believe that plans are not influenced by circumstances, suit yourself too.

Yes, it is all these types of policies put in place since the 70s regarding the Middle East foreign policy, and pretty much seems that's how most have been fulfilled in some ways. Have they not?

Did he, or did he not orchestrate the attack on Israeli territory, without consulting the political leadership?

You don't automatically get to be great by virtue of leading a resistance movement. You still need to work towards an outcome that will benefit your people in the long term. As it stands, what concrete benefits have Palestinians gotten from military action? It isn't guerilla warfare that got them to be treated as a quasi state by the UN; it was diplomacy.
What do the Palestinians have that can benefit them in the long-term for full sovereignty, including economic, civil, political rights, with full self-determination?

I think you greatly misunderstand those who are critical of the current Palestinian effort to achieve liberation.

Again, what are the Palestinians supposed to do? So, you do not think they tried diplomacy, if that would work? The 2-state solution, negotiations and peace talks by Israel/West/alliances are all grand deceptions as Israel never truly intended to allow the creation of a Palestinian state in the first place. It is time to accept the reality that Israel simply does not want a sovereign Palestinian state. Also, any type of self-determination is heavily weighed that any such arrangement would not be on terms that are compatible with the rights of the Palestinian people. It is just variations of maintaining status quo of managing, rather than solving, the so-called conflict, and none of them allow for the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state.

India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh were also split in 1947, and rather than one country trying to reconstruct what colonialism had broken, they moved on (mostly, since India and Pakistan are still fighting over Kashmir).

Most people on Earth are from countries that were created as a result of imperialism, and most of them could make irredentist claims to restore what colonialism has broken, which is the logic behind the request of the "right to return." The reality of this is that it is ******* hard to "fix" the past. It is even harder when facing an opponent allied with the most powerful (military, economically, diplomatically) country on the planet.

At the end of the day, a people's ultimate victory is to be the one to survive, tell their stories, and live their culture. It's all good to be passionate about martyrdom, but what's the point when nobody will be left to tell the story of Palestinians?

Even the partition of India, and then independence of Bangladesh were bloody and paid a heavy price, with issues and sectarian strife that lasted decades to this day. Right here in Canada we are dealing with India allegedly assassinating pro-separatist Khalistani Sikh leaders (who have also been assassinated in U.K. and Pakistan).

There's even world conflicts between countries and civil wars even AFTER their independence still ongoing right now.

As for the Palestinian issue, as I stated, the roots are it is a political and human rights issue at the core and national liberation struggle, that is also anti-colonial/imperial fight and resistance of their violent occupation and oppression.

As I mentioned above regarding the circularity of Israel's policies of status quo and continued annexation and occupation, it has a kind of simple brilliance to it, but it is not necessarily sustainable. It can be disrupted by the international community calling Israel's bluff, and by a Palestinian leadership that refuses to play by the rules of the game, and adopts a different paradigm. Frankly, this year, there seems to be a bit of a nudge to the international community and isolation to Israel that's never been seen before.

Policy-makers must abandon a framing that presupposes, though rarely identifies, a specific "point of no return" for a 2-state solution. It is time to accept the reality that Israel simply does not want a sovereign Palestinian state, and consider its serious implications.

 

[smedroc]

 

[gry60]

1.) This confirms from a foreign policy standpoint what the world has known for several months now. That Israel is overstepping in their aggression and needs to work towards peace and the safety of Palestinian civilians. ITs gotten so ridiculous that our defense secretary had to threaten something like this. I would have never imagined even the threat tbh

Not the first time, and we've actually restricted sales to Israel in the past (not just threatened to do so): In 1982, the US government imposed a six year ban on some types of weapons as the result of Israel using those munitions in civilian areas of Lebanon. The same admin (Reagan) also stopped the sale of fighter jets after Israeli raids in a few MENA countries.

The thing is, Israelis have always been this egregious against Palestinians, and with the US moving troops and weapons in Israel, I don't think we are actually moving towards forcing Israel to de-escalate. If anything, increased US-provided cover is emboldening Tel Aviv. I just don't see how the juice (weakening Iran) is worth the amount of **diplomatic capital the US is spending on it, especially when American allies are getting more critical of Israel.

**When reading European news, the growing calls to increase autonomy from the American defense umbrella have become more noticeable; we're also being very lenient towards Israel disregarding the UN apparatus and international law, and as a result, the very idea of a "rules-based" order - the one we do benefit from - sounds like a bad joke to a growing number of countries.

 

[gry60]

LOL, is he a retired spy?

Actually, have y'all ever seen a spy give interviews on current affairs?

Dude definitely dressed the part though...

 

[Brownstone]

Not the first time, and we've actually restricted sales to Israel in the past (not just threatened to do so): In 1982, the US government imposed a six year ban on some types of weapons as the result of Israel using those munitions in civilian areas of Lebanon. The same admin (Reagan) also stopped the sale of fighter jets after Israeli raids in a few MENA countries.

The thing is, Israelis have always been this egregious against Palestinians, and with the US moving troops and weapons in Israel, I don't think we are actually moving towards forcing Israel to de-escalate. If anything, increased US-provided cover is emboldening Tel Aviv. I just don't see how the juice (weakening Iran) is worth the amount of **diplomatic capital the US is spending on it, especially when American allies are getting more critical of Israel.

**When reading European news, the growing calls to increase autonomy from the American defense umbrella have become more noticeable; we're also being very lenient towards Israel disregarding the UN apparatus and international law, and as a result, the very idea of a "rules-based" order - the one we do benefit from - sounds like a bad joke to a growing number of countries.

I never knew that, thank you for letting me know. crazy how far we've come to where we are today to where it's quite possibly the only thing right and left agree on....

Also hard to imagine the Cold War not playing a part, can't be the high and mighty Americans while supporting bombing of innocent civilians with military aid

 

[QU!K]

I’m not for Israel occupation of Palestine but that ISIS feeding babies to hostages story ****** me up for a few days. I really hope that **** is fake and just propaganda.

 

[DLF]

I’m not for Israel occupation of Palestine but that ISIS feeding babies to hostages story ****** me up for a few days. I really hope that **** is fake and just propaganda.

lol

lol

lol

lol

lol


side note: ISIS was created by the US and Israel