Israel declares War - Destruction of Gaza / Growing conflict in Middle East

[Belgium]

stein 2024

Ah yes, a nutcase with zero chance of winning even a single state, who accepted a sponsorship from the Kremlin and then had to apologize a while back for caping for him. Then she got rebuked by her previous running mate for her apology in which she did call Putin's invasion of Ukraine a war crime. According to her 2016 running mate, calling Putin a war criminal is "playing to the rightest forces among the left and Democratic party unnecessarily."
The only war criminal she refuses to fully criticize is the one who paid her. Shocker.

Each and every single third party candidate is solely there to grift money from equally delusional chumps and/or to act as a spoiler campaign to aid one of the major parties. With no exception.
America is not a country where ANY third party candidate has even the slightest chance of winning anything. Not a single state, and probably hardly even a single county.
All they can do is act as a spoiler to sabotage one of the parties who can actually win.

Any of their 'policy talk' is just irrelevant fanfiction as they'll never sniff a chance at winning the presidency. If any third party presidential candidate truly believes they are doing something instead of just hustling the bottom of the barrel idiots for money and fame, it's probably time they seek therapy.
If they simply want to get their voice out there, they'd have more luck getting attention and airtime running as either of the two parties.

Recall all the times Jill Stein has rightfully called out Netanyahu as a war criminal?
Here's the difference when she's questioned about a different war criminal who sponsored her with a lavish in-person dinner. Waffling all around a simple question, desperately trying to avoid an explicit answer.

What an absolute joke that a reality exists where anyone with an IQ over 50 (and that's being generous) takes Jill Stein seriously.

 

[DLF]

 

[gry60]

Belgium Jill Stein was recently endorsed by David Duke too.

Opinion | Pro-Palestinian efforts to rally behind Jill Stein will backfire

Efforts to encourage defections from Harris are doing a disservice to those looking to end the carnage in Gaza.

www.msnbc.com

Endorsing Stein is about denying Michigan to Harris.

“We could deny Kamala Harris the state of Michigan,” Sawant said, identifying it as a top "goal." Pointing out that the polls show it’s unlikely Harris could win the White House without Michigan, Sawant said that "if we manage to accomplish this, it would be absolutely historic by voting for a presidential candidate who is against the war and by rejecting a presidential candidate ... because she is supporting the genocide.’”

But, Sawant also says this:

Sawant, speaking to a crowd in Dearborn, Michigan, admitted her candidate can’t win. What’s more, she said, winning wasn’t the aim.

It's nothing but a reactionary posture that will result in expulsion of Palestinians from Gaza and formal annexation of Israeli-held parts of the WB if Trump wins.

Such a pro-Palestinian stance...

The way to think about voting is not as a mode of personal expression or a moral endorsement, but as an action with material consequences. And a vote against Trump is not only an action that will reduce harm, but will also ensure a less hostile activist terrain for actually achieving the longer-term goal of ending unconditional U.S. support for Israel. There is a tremendous amount of political organizing and protesting that needs to be done in the U.S. to build a mandate for the U.S. government to change its policies in the region. That organizing is going to have a much higher chance of working against a Harris administration than a Trump one. Not only is Harris more likely to concede to protesters if they develop a big enough movement, but she’s less likely to repress them as harshly as Trump has reportedly promised to do.

Seeking to "punish" Democrats might make some people feel pure. But if it succeeds it's going to make the horrifying situation in Gaza even worse.

Unfortunately, there is no long-term thinking involved in being reactionary against the Biden/Harris administration. The same long-term mindset has been absent from the Palestinian leadership.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

How has Trump managed to not talk about Gaza the past few months? He's got a good shot at winning the election. What's he saying? Legit asking

nobody asks him about it, because

1. Everyone knows he's just gunna give Bibi the greenlight to do whatever.
2. It doesn't split his coalition, so it doesn't generate headline clicks for news outlets.
3. He mostly just complains that Jews don't support him nough
because he doesn't understand that most american jews are secular democrats who don't care enough about Israel to vote for a republican.

 

[earldagoat]

 

[earldagoat]

 

[me love nutella]

Thats a very weird take. They got the guy who orchestrated a deadly incursion in Israel, in a firefight, without the need to drop a bomb that would take out multiple civilians.

And let's also say this: there probably would've been a deal if Sinwar chose to work with the political branch of Hamas to end the conflict. Instead, he's been dragging the Palestinian population into a fight they had 0% chance of winning.

Was the White House supposed to decry the death of the equivalent of Bin Laden?

Sinwar is equivalent to Bin Laden? In what sense?

There was going to be NO DEAL. Israel wants to annex Gaza, and eliminate Palestinians in as many numbers they can get away with for land grabs and security buffers. This was planned FOR DECADES, which Netanyahu and his goons wanted to implement to proceed with the Trump Plan and Abraham Accords.

What deal was Hamas supposed to accept while they are blockaded and under siege with plans of annexation and continued occupation by Israel?

So now since they have assassinated leaders of the movements and Sinwar, where is the ceasefire deal? Netanyahu wants to keep going.

Hamas said, stop the war and withdraw and then we can have a deal, while Israel says Hamas go away and let us put in ourselves and others to continue defacto ruling over you, and then we have a deal.

How is Hamas not winning? Hamas wins when srael doesn't win and doesn't reach their military objectives which is eliminating Hamas.

 

[Public Enemy]

**** Biden for saying that, but this video is from May 2024

 

[DLF]

**** Biden for saying that, but this video is from May 2024

yes. he feels the same way now.

 

[Public Enemy]

Ah yes, a nutcase with zero chance of winning even a single state, who accepted a sponsorship from the Kremlin and then had to apologize a while back for caping for him. Then she got rebuked by her previous running mate for her apology in which she did call Putin's invasion of Ukraine a war crime. According to her 2016 running mate, calling Putin a war criminal is "playing to the rightest forces among the left and Democratic party unnecessarily."
The only war criminal she refuses to fully criticize is the one who paid her. Shocker.

Each and every single third party candidate is solely there to grift money from equally delusional chumps and/or to act as a spoiler campaign to aid one of the major parties. With no exception.
America is not a country where ANY third party candidate has even the slightest chance of winning anything. Not a single state, and probably hardly even a single county.
All they can do is act as a spoiler to sabotage one of the parties who can actually win.

Any of their 'policy talk' is just irrelevant fanfiction as they'll never sniff a chance at winning the presidency. If any third party presidential candidate truly believes they are doing something instead of just hustling the bottom of the barrel idiots for money and fame, it's probably time they seek therapy.
If they simply want to get their voice out there, they'd have more luck getting attention and airtime running as either of the two parties.

Recall all the times Jill Stein has rightfully called out Netanyahu as a war criminal?
Here's the difference when she's questioned about a different war criminal who sponsored her with a lavish in-person dinner. Waffling all around a simple question, desperately trying to avoid an explicit answer.

What an absolute joke that a reality exists where anyone with an IQ over 50 (and that's being generous) takes Jill Stein seriously.

Good on you for replying. I just laughed it off as nonsense. Stein is a joke and has been. I was canvassing a few years ago and somebody had gotten suckered into thinking she was an option. Wonder if that person realized the error of their ways and turned into one of those people who is now apologizing like "I am a college educated person with resources and I'm sorry, I fell for the Jill Stein grift."

She is completely unserious.

 

[earldagoat]

 

[Public Enemy]

yes. he feels the same way now.

Maybe he does, I'm sure there's a good chance, but I don't like when people misrepresent things. Posting that video with no context like he said it today, is misleading AF.

I saw a Jeff Daniels speech from tv where he's decrying Trump's racism and talking about how the Republican Party felt like if they don't play the race card they have nothing else going on and their Party will be destroyed, and so they latched onto it and have become horrible people.

...but I didn't post it because it's from 2020. It's every bit as relevant and poignant today as it was when he said it then. Arguably even moreso because he ends with saying "And they won't go quietly". And it's clear that was prescient. But it's going around Twitter like he said it last week. I didn't post it because I'm not trying to mislead people or be misled.

 

[gry60]

Posting that video with no context like he said it today, is misleading AF.

If someone only gets their news from the most prolific posters in this thread and their sources, they'd be inclined to ask "which letter?"

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/15/white-house-ultimatum-israeli-gaza-00183737

The Oct. 13 letter gives Israel 30 days to demonstrate its commitment to addressing a number of U.S. concerns, a deadline which would elapse following the presidential election in November. If Israel fails, it could risk facing additional hurdles to accessing U.S. foreign military financing.

This is the US putting more restrictions on providing weapons to Israel after those 30 days.

In the letter, Blinken and Austin outline specific action items for Israel to ameliorate the increased risk of starvation in the territory, including allowing at least 350 trucks a day to enter Gaza through the territory’s four major crossings ahead of winter. And the two want to see the U.S. and Israel create a new communication channel to discuss incidents surrounding civilians that would begin to be used by the end of this month.

 

[rexanglorum]

 

[gry60]

Sinwar is equivalent to Bin Laden? In what sense?

I don't think this is an honest question.

There was going to be NO DEAL.

There was going to be no deal keeping Hamas in place though. This is why they wanted a complete withdrawal, but Israel wasn't taking another chance with the military structure of Hamas.

Israel wants to annex Gaza, and eliminate Palestinians in as many numbers they can get away with for land grabs and security buffers.

Palestinians leaders knew the Israeli far-right has wanted to expand the borders of Israel, they knew they control the Israeli government, and Sinwar still gave them the pretext they wanted to justify an invasion.

Ta-Nehisi Coates correctly points out that by saying Palestinians had it coming after attacking inside Israel, we remove Israel's agency. Where I disagree with him is on the notion that the agency of Palestinian leaders doesn't matter. It does. Another Israeli government may have tolerated the existence of Hamas after Oct 7th (at great political cost); not Bibi's.

Not taking Israel's reaction into account when launching an attack of this scale is poor decision-making, and so is creating an alliance with a regional power (Iran) that has a history of animosity towards your more traditional allies (Arab countries) just because they sweet-talked you into pursuing a very low probability objective (destroying Israel).

How is Hamas not winning? Hamas wins when srael doesn't win and doesn't reach their military objectives which is eliminating Hamas.

They lost their entire command, their allies' power projection capabilities have been greatly reduced, and Palestinians are being squeezed out of more territory that will take more time to get back. I don't know how one would call this winning.

 

[Belgium]

Sinwar is equivalent to Bin Laden? In what sense?

There was going to be NO DEAL. Israel wants to annex Gaza, and eliminate Palestinians in as many numbers they can get away with for land grabs and security buffers. This was planned FOR DECADES, which Netanyahu and his goons wanted to implement to proceed with the Trump Plan and Abraham Accords.

What deal was Hamas supposed to accept while they are blockaded and under siege with plans of annexation and continued occupation by Israel?

So now since they have assassinated leaders of the movements and Sinwar, where is the ceasefire deal? Netanyahu wants to keep going.

Hamas said, stop the war and withdraw and then we can have a deal, while Israel says Hamas go away and let us put in ourselves and others to continue defacto ruling over you, and then we have a deal.

How is Hamas not winning? Hamas wins when srael doesn't win and doesn't reach their military objectives which is eliminating Hamas.

Winning by doing what exactly? Getting bombed, losing military resources and glorifying the slaughter of innocent Palestinian civilians?
Hamas' own leadership, specifically Sinwar, considers the genocide of Palestinians a "necessary sacrifice" (his words), because obviously it's bound to drive up recruitment.
https://archive.is/7f3EC

"

 

[earldagoat]

 

[smedroc]

Winning by doing what exactly? Getting bombed, losing military resources and glorifying the slaughter of innocent Palestinian civilians?
Hamas' own leadership, specifically Sinwar, considers the genocide of Palestinians a "necessary sacrifice" (his words), because obviously it's bound to drive up recruitment.
https://archive.is/7f3EC

Israel being vilified by the international community, getting decimated economically and getting drawn into war with Lebanon and Iran is the win for Hamas / the Palestinian people.

 

[me love nutella]

I don't think this is an honest question.



There was going to be no deal keeping Hamas in place though. This is why they wanted a complete withdrawal, but Israel wasn't taking another chance with the military structure of Hamas.



Palestinians leaders knew the Israeli far-right has wanted to expand the borders of Israel, they knew they control the Israeli government, and Sinwar still gave them the pretext they wanted to justify an invasion.

Ta-Nehisi Coates correctly points out that by saying Palestinians had it coming after attacking inside Israel, we remove Israel's agency. Where I disagree with him is on the notion that the agency of Palestinian leaders doesn't matter. It does. Another Israeli government may have tolerated the existence of Hamas after Oct 7th (at great political cost); not Bibi's.

Not taking Israel's reaction into account when launching an attack of this scale is poor decision-making, and so is creating an alliance with a regional power (Iran) that has a history of animosity towards your more traditional allies (Arab countries) just because they sweet-talked you into pursuing a very low probability objective (destroying Israel).



They lost their entire command, their allies' power projection capabilities have been greatly reduced, and Palestinians are being squeezed out of more territory that will take more time to get back. I don't know how one would call this winning.

Hamas from their military strategic standpoint saw it no choice but to commit the military offensive of Oct. 7th.

Gaza was already squeezed as is for yars leading up to Oct. 7th in Gaza and West Bank, and the people in Gaza were turning to them saying what the hell are you going to do, we are being starved in this concentration camp/open air prison, and 2023 was one of deadliest years for Palestinians, with the attacks on Al-Aqsa, the continuing expansion and settlements, and Netanyahu was coming for Gaza next to attempt to dismantle Hamas and take over for annexation as per the Trump Plan and Abraham Accords.

You think Israel did not provoke enough to let Oct. 7th happen? While also Netanyahu was losing popularity and facing trials for corruption? You think his far-right coalition goons did not want war with Gaza, Lebanon and Iran? This was already all planned for years prior, and it was inevitable.

You know how many years and decades Israel has been assassinating Palestinian leaders, and if anything, has it dismantled Palestinian armed resistance? It’s been over a year since the war broke out on Oct. 7 of last year, but Israel is still a long way away from achieving its goal of eradicating Hamas. Hamas in still quite in strong shape and growing its support among residents. While it has lost many members to date, it can still fill out its ranks, an ability founded in growing support among residents. Israel is effectively caught in two traps, with its endless war in Gaza and its current escalation with Hezbollah. They cannot even seem to get past Hezbollah yet in southern Lebanon because they are getting a good whooping and incurring heavy losses. Now, they want to do war with Iran, where Israel will only expand and get more violent and even pull the U.S. into a regional war. This is the plan and has always been the plan, whether Hamas did Oct. 7th or not. There's U.S. policy papers from 2009 outlining this plan. There's even Chapter 5, titled: Leave it to Bibi: Allowing or Encouraging an Israeli Military Strike.

Ya'll really think Oct. 7 is what set all of this off, when these plans were set and planned in motion FOR DECADES? You seem to only be following Israeli and American propaganda and news on the war, and that's the perspective you are taking about the war.

Also, ya, Sinwar is no Bin Laden, especially for Sinwar who's family was forcibly displaced by Zionist militias from their home in Askhelon in 1948 during the Nakba (catastrophe), when 750,000 Palestinians were kicked out of their homes. A man who was first jailed as a student for involvement in anti-occupation activism. Who then was accused of involvement in the capture and death of two Israeli soldiers and four suspected Palestinian spies, and did a 23-year stint in Israeli jail. A man who was literally a colonized and oppressed refugee seeking a national liberation struggle for the Palestinians. Yes, so similar to Bin Laden's story and Bin Laden who was a Saudi contractor and American spy/asset who came from a very wealthy Saudi wealthy.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Israel being vilified by the international community, getting decimated economically and getting drawn into war with Lebanon and Iran is the win for Hamas / the Palestinian people.

40k dead is a win for the Palestinian people wut??

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Also, ya, Sinwar is no Bin Laden, especially for Sinwar who's family was forcibly displaced by Zionist militias from their home in Askhelon in 1948 during the Nakba (catastrophe), when 750,000 Palestinians were kicked out of their homes. A man who was first jailed as a student for involvement in anti-occupation activism. Who then was accused of involvement in the capture and death of two Israeli soldiers and four suspected Palestinian spies, and did a 23-year stint in Israeli jail. A man who was literally a colonized and oppressed refugee seeking a national liberation struggle for the Palestinians. Yes, so similar to Bin Laden's story and Bin Laden who was a Saudi contractor and American spy/asset who came from a very wealthy Saudi wealthy.

uhm do you think Bin Laden sat around in his cave thinking "yes i am a bad person who does bad things"

or do you think he also has a whole bunch of justifications, and inciting incidents that he feels make his actions warranted?

 

[me love nutella]

40k dead is a win for the Palestinian people wut??

You mean which Israel has been genociding and been ethnically cleansing and slaughtering to death? That's Israel's doing. Not Hamas.
Then again, you were the one many months ago claiming what's happening is not genocide. So, are you blaming the Palestinian resistance for the genocide that is being committed on them?

 

[me love nutella]

uhm do you think Bin Laden sat around in his cave thinking "yes i am a bad person who does bad things"

or do you think he also has a whole bunch of justifications, and inciting incidents that he feels make his actions warranted?

Of course, the American imperialists and colonizers are not the boogeymans right? You know, the American government and military going around pillaging, plundering, exploiting resources and killing people to death, and also going around and planting their military bases all over the world engineering their imperialist powers and domination on other people, even supporting and abetting dictatorships, militas and mercenaries and then surprised they get the blowback?

 

[Belgium]

Israel being vilified by the international community, getting decimated economically and getting drawn into war with Lebanon and Iran is the win for Hamas / the Palestinian people.

A win for Hamas' leadership, sure. A substantial part of them live luxury lives in Qatar.
I'm not so sure the innocent Palestinians agree with Sinwar's sentiment of the more dead Palestinians the better.

Sinwar's assassination could be positive for a ceasefire though. There has been consistent reporting that Hamas' leadership outside of Sinwar was much more receptive to mediators and a potential deal.

 

[me love nutella]

A win for Hamas' leadership, sure. A substantial part of them live luxury lives in Qatar.
I'm not so sure the innocent Palestinians agree with Sinwar's sentiment of the more dead Palestinians the better.

Sinwar's assassination could be positive for a ceasefire though. There has been consistent reporting that Hamas' leadership outside of Sinwar was much more receptive to mediators and a potential deal.

What's with this whole propaganda about some leaders of Hamas living in luxury in Qatar? What's it for? To discredit Hamas? Like some of the U.S. and Israeli leaders don't live in luxury????

How many of you were believing that Sinwar was hiding away in Qatar in luxury and or holed up with some explosive belt surrounded by hostages, when turns out the man was on the battlefield and went out like a warrior? Some woman in Gaza (speak to her on Instagram) told me actually Sinwar was fighting since October of last year. She said they used to see him on the field in SANDALS fighting the IDF with his resistance fighters on the front lines never abandoning the Palestinians. How many of the Western leaders would be fighting themselves, or sending their sons and daughters, to battle for these wars and would never step foot to put their bodies to sacrifice?

I will tell you Belgium , many of you do not understand the Palestinians and their sacrifice for their lands. Don't some of you understand Palestinians are already dead when they are born in Gaza? Many of them, if they had to choose a way to die, it is to die for their land and sacrifice for it. Sure, not all of them have that sentiment, but many of them do. I am speaking to you like a Palestinian, and some one who knows some who came here fresh from Gaza.

I am not saying this is you, but for many others look down on martyrdom of indigenous peoples fighting and sacrificing to defend their homes and lands, but then go celebrate their military industrial complex sending hundreds of thousands of their troops to fight the wars of their ruling elite for money and resources, and to die that way is considered sacrifice and to be respected by colonizing and genociding others abroad. But then indigenous peoples fighting defending their homelands and occupation is not deemed worthy?