IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[dt43]

He takes 5 less shots a game this year.

All Shot % are up. Rebounds are up. Assists are up.

He's the leading scorer. He always will be, and any coach would make him the #1 option because he can create his own shot better than the entire team.

We have a Pau Gasol playing half as good as he is. Dwight missing over half his free throws. No day in day out reliable PGs.

His PER is up. His Assist Ratio is up.. His True Shooting % is 61.5.

I've lost count the amount of times Kobe goes across the top of the key to draw a second defender to pass it to Pau wide open, just to have him miss.

Kobe is 1st in SG scoring. 3rd in SG assists (Although I'm giving him second. Heinrich ist a PG). T-2nd in SG FG%. 2nd in SG RPG.

Coaches would "make him the #1 option" because most coaches suck (relative to the greats) and they rely on players to bail them out.

Rest assured, Kobe "Bean" Bryant would NOT be the number one option if he had a coach like Popovich.

The stats don't lie.

YEAR AFTER YEAR, the stats don't lie.


This year, he's scoring 21.5 PPG on 16 FGA in their wins.

In losses, he's scoring 32 PPG on 21 FGA per game.

He averages twice as many assists in their wins versus their losses.

And NO, this does not have to do with "well he sees how his teammates play in the first quarter then decides if he needs to shoot or pass, and they usually don't play with energy."

Stop it. Players simply don't want to play with a selfish guy who only cares about his points.

If they didn't keep fouling Dwight, Bryant would have attempted 32 shots tonight.

 

[nationaltruckerdave]

 

[00david00]

Kobe threads in S&T = race threads in general

 

[longstroke]

But that has nothing with being one of the greatest, or top 10 of all time.
Steve Jobs previous company before rejoining Apple would then be in the top 10 companies of all time, because without starting that company, he would never have returned to Apple and turned it into what it is today.
Is Jackie Robinson top 10 all time for breaking the color barrier?

In his era, Mikan was the best, there is no denying that. You cannot deny him his glory, due to his playing in an era that you do not have any respect for. 

Also, you cannot use Jackie Robinson as an example, as he is NOT a pioneer in respect to the early days of baseball. Babe Ruth is, and he is still relevant.

Babe Ruth is top ten in Baseball, and Mikan should be given the same consideration in hoops.

 

[longstroke]

Neilsen Rating is flawed and can't be rely on to determine real result of actual viewers. Neilsen company conduct the rating by taking a small sample size of household. The United States has over 200 millions household and there's no additional measure of worldwide view which consist of a couple hundred millions viewers.

A lot of people in this thread are misinformed especially this guy Long Stroke 

While it may be flawed, it still is used as a measurement by ad companies to determine how to move promote and move product, and it is efficient enough for the NBA to continue to use it as well. So your opinion does not trump that of David Stern, who continues to use it in negotiations.

So perhaps there is no one more misinformed than you.

Intentionally misinformed, actually.

wow are you guys really taking the time and effort to argue with smallpoke? you all know who that is right?
You are wasting your time. put him on ignore like many have. the guy is off his rocker

The score is 234 to 59. Deal with it. And just like Kobe, your shooting percentage is horrible.

coach hubie?

Always the fall back when accurate Kobe discussions arise. 

You are not built for real life.

What do you guys do when you do not have a report button to rely upon when someone disagrees with you, hide indoors?

 

[essential1]

He takes 5 less shots a game this year.

All Shot % are up. Rebounds are up. Assists are up.

He's the leading scorer. He always will be, and any coach would make him the #1 option because he can create his own shot better than the entire team.

We have a Pau Gasol playing half as good as he is. Dwight missing over half his free throws. No day in day out reliable PGs.

His PER is up. His Assist Ratio is up.. His True Shooting % is 61.5.

I've lost count the amount of times Kobe goes across the top of the key to draw a second defender to pass it to Pau wide open, just to have him miss.

Kobe is 1st in SG scoring. 3rd in SG assists (Although I'm giving him second. Heinrich ist a PG). T-2nd in SG FG%. 2nd in SG RPG.

Coaches would "make him the #1 option" because most coaches suck (relative to the greats) and they rely on players to bail them out.

Rest assured, Kobe "Bean" Bryant would NOT be the number one option if he had a coach like Popovich.

The stats don't lie.

YEAR AFTER YEAR, the stats don't lie.


This year, he's scoring 21.5 PPG on 16 FGA in their wins.

In losses, he's scoring 32 PPG on 21 FGA per game.

He averages twice as many assists in their wins versus their losses.

And NO, this does not have to do with "well he sees how his teammates play in the first quarter then decides if he needs to shoot or pass, and they usually don't play with energy."

Stop it. Players simply don't want to play with a selfish guy who only cares about his points.

If they didn't keep fouling Dwight, Bryant would have attempted 32 shots tonight.

He's shooting 50/42/89 in losses as well. Also plays 3.9 more minutes.

Pau Gasol shoots 37% in loses. Only 1.6 shots less, but if you're a PF shooting 37%, you shouldn't have the ball in the first place..

Dwight's average shots in losses is 4 less, that is marred by 1 game where he took 4 shots. Kobe had 20, so you can't say it was Kobe.. Which that game alone dropped him by 1 shot per game from his average in wins. Or the game against the Grizzles where Gasol & ZBo held him to 7 shots, made Pau look foolish. Then there's the 4 games we've lost by 10 where the amount of FTs we missed would have swung the game by 15 points +


You know damn well Kobe would be the #1 scoring option under Pop.

 

[deuce king]

If Kobe is so good and elite, why is his team losing to so many bad teams this year??

 

[essential1]

If Kobe is so good and elite, why is his team losing to so many bad teams this year??

Lebron started 9-8 in 2010-11. So he wasn't good either?




And how many of these game have you watched... I've seen all but 1 (in which we beat GS by 24)


4 losses Dwight missed 7 or more FTs. Separate from missing 7+ FTs, 4 games where the amount of FTs Dwight has missed has been the margin of the opposing teams win.... Either combination of those 4 games the Lakers would be 12-5, and you wouldn't be saying anything about W/L record.

Pau shoots 37% in losses.

In losses our bench barely scores.

No starting PG.. Our backup is really our 3rd string who is a Second Rounder who is a few years out from being solid.

 

[deuce king]

Lebron started 9-8 in 2010-11. So he wasn't good either?

We're talking about Kobe right now, NOT Lebron.  Stay focused on that task at hand champ.

4 losses Dwight missed 7 or more FTs. Separate from missing 7+ FTs, 4 games where the amount of FTs Dwight has missed has been the margin of the opposing teams win.... Either combination of those 4 games the Lakers would be 12-5, and you wouldn't be saying anything about W/L record.

Pau shoots 37% in losses.

In losses our bench barely scores.

No starting PG.. Our backup is really our 3rd string who is a Second Rounder who is a few years out from being solid.

All that being said, at the end of the day Kobe should have and could have done more.  I don't blame Dwight or Pau or anybody else for those loses, I blame Kobe.  The so called leader of this team and the so called best player in the league, and the so called GOAT.......

. 

If he's THAT good like you and others have eluded to on here, then the Lakers wouldn't be losing to some of the team that they have and will lose to this year.  Now's the time for Kobe to step his game up and carry his squad.  It's like being President of the United States, when things go right you get the credit, when things go bad you get the blame.  If Kobe and Kobe fans worldwide can't understand that then maybe it's time to find a new line of work.  \

Edit--

Great basketball players make other players around them better.  This appears to be something that Kobe is still learning how to do.

 

[essential1]

Lebron started 9-8 in 2010-11. So he wasn't good either?

We're talking about Kobe right now, NOT Lebron.  Stay focused on that task at hand champ.

4 losses Dwight missed 7 or more FTs. Separate from missing 7+ FTs, 4 games where the amount of FTs Dwight has missed has been the margin of the opposing teams win.... Either combination of those 4 games the Lakers would be 12-5, and you wouldn't be saying anything about W/L record.


Pau shoots 37% in losses.


In losses our bench barely scores.


No starting PG.. Our backup is really our 3rd string who is a Second Rounder who is a few years out from being solid.

All that being said, at the end of the day Kobe should have and could have done more.  I don't blame Dwight or Pau or anybody else for those loses, I blame Kobe.  The so called leader of this team and the so called best player in the league, and the so called GOAT....... . 

If he's THAT good like you and others have eluded to on here, then the Lakers wouldn't be losing to some of the team that they have and will lose to this year.  Now's the time for Kobe to step his game up and carry his squad.  It's like being President of the United States, when things go right you get the credit, when things go bad you get the blame.  If Kobe and Kobe fans worldwide can't understand that then maybe it's time to find a new line of work. 

No, Lebron is perfectly relevant to your statement... If you are saying that Kobe isn't elite with his team at 8-9, then Lebron was not either at 9-8. Unless 1 game is the entire crux of elite vs. non-elite

You clearly did not watch those games they lost.. Pau nor Dwight don't get any of the blame, but Kobe does... Right.... He's shooting 50/40/89 in the losses..

Do more.. Oh that's right, you want him to score 25. Shoot 50/40/89. Get 10 assists. 8 boards.. Take less shots.. Pass more.. Take control of the scoring... Then take every shot in crunch time, and shoot 100%.

 

[tennhouse2]

If Kobe is so good and elite, why is his team losing to so many bad teams this year??

What kind of argument is this? Its a new team riddled with inuries and even without that good teams lose to bad teams all the time it happens

 

[thejisback]

Da' hell?

The ratings dropped when Kobe was in his prime! They go down any further, the NBA will be back on tape delay!

He retires, it can't help but improve!

Of course they dropped, because Jordan retired for the last time.

Bottom line people, MOST people would and do PAY to SEE Kobe (yes even in this stage of his career) before Lebron. Don't get me wrong Lebron is a great athelete, but he does not and will never generate the buzz that Kobe does. Not as many people tuned in to the olympics until Kobe started to play again and oh yeah, the GOLD was brought back to the USA once KOBE decided to play in the olympics again. All Star games rating were down the years Kobe was out and when he came back and was not injured they went back up (and yes Lebron and others were playing in these games when Kobe was hurt).

 

[defobking]

kobe has to be the one of the most inefficient 30 point games scorer ever. i rarely see him scoring over 30 points with more than fg% over 50.

 

[longstroke]

Of course they dropped, because Jordan retired for the last time.
Bottom line people, MOST people would and do PAY to SEE Kobe (yes even in this stage of his career) before Lebron. Don't get me wrong Lebron is a great athelete, but he does not and will never generate the buzz that Kobe does. Not as many people tuned in to the olympics until Kobe started to play again and oh yeah, the GOLD was brought back to the USA once KOBE decided to play in the olympics again. All Star games rating were down the years Kobe was out and when he came back and was not injured they went back up (and yes Lebron and others were playing in these games when Kobe was hurt).

The numbers say that you are wrong about that.

You do realize that the NBA keeps track of such data, correct?

 

[longstroke]

Here's some info,
[table][tr][td]2013 Attendance[/td][td]Home[/td][td]Road[/td][td]Overall[/td][/tr][tr][td]RK[/td][td]TEAM[/td][td]GMS[/td][td]TOTAL[/td][td]AVG[/td][td]PCT[/td][td]GMS[/td][td]AVG[/td][td]PCT[/td][td]GMS[/td][td]AVG[/td][td]PCT[/td][/tr][tr][td]1[/td][td]Bulls[/td][td]9[/td][td]194,377[/td][td]21,597[/td][td]103.3[/td][td]6[/td][td]17,655[/td][td]91.6[/td][td]15[/td][td]20,020[/td][td]98.8[/td][/tr][tr][td]2[/td][td]Trail Blazers[/td][td]7[/td][td]141,547[/td][td]20,221[/td][td]97.2[/td][td]10[/td][td]15,639[/td][td]82.0[/td][td]17[/td][td]17,526[/td][td]88.6[/td][/tr][tr][td]3[/td][td]Heat[/td][td]8[/td][td]159,326[/td][td]19,915[/td][td]101.6[/td][td]7[/td][td]18,159[/td][td]96.8[/td][td]15[/td][td]19,096[/td][td]99.4[/td][/tr][tr][td]4[/td][td]Mavericks[/td][td]9[/td][td]178,555[/td][td]19,839[/td][td]103.3[/td][td]8[/td][td]17,731[/td][td]89.9[/td][td]17[/td][td]18,847[/td][td]96.9[/td][/tr][tr][td]5[/td][td]Clippers[/td][td]10[/td][td]190,686[/td][td]19,068[/td][td]100.0[/td][td]6[/td][td]18,216[/td][td]96.3[/td][td]16[/td][td]18,749[/td][td]98.7[/td][/tr][tr][td]6[/td][td]NY Knicks[/td][td]7[/td][td]133,231[/td][td]19,033[/td][td]96.3[/td][td]9[/td][td]16,866[/td][td]90.8[/td][td]16[/td][td]17,814[/td][td]93.3[/td][/tr][tr][td]7[/td][td]Lakers[/td][td]12[/td][td]227,964[/td][td]18,997[/td][td]99.7[/td][td]5[/td][td]18,820[/td][td]98.7[/td][td]17[/td][td]18,945[/td][td]99.4[/td][/tr][/table]
http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

 

[essential1]

Here's some info,


[table][tr][td]2013 Attendance[/td]

[td]Home[/td]

[td]Road[/td]

[td]Overall[/td]

[/tr][tr][td]RK[/td]

[td]TEAM[/td]

[td]GMS[/td]

[td]
TOTAL
[/td]

[td]
AVG
[/td]

[td]
PCT
[/td]

[td]GMS[/td]

[td]
AVG
[/td]

[td]
PCT
[/td]

[td]GMS[/td]

[td]
AVG
[/td]

[td]
PCT
[/td]

[/tr][tr][td]1[/td]

[td]
Bulls
[/td]

[td]9[/td]

[td]194,377[/td]

[td]21,597[/td]

[td]103.3[/td]

[td]6[/td]

[td]17,655[/td]

[td]91.6[/td]

[td]15[/td]

[td]20,020[/td]

[td]98.8[/td]

[/tr][tr][td]2[/td]

[td]
Trail Blazers
[/td]

[td]7[/td]

[td]141,547[/td]

[td]20,221[/td]

[td]97.2[/td]

[td]10[/td]

[td]15,639[/td]

[td]82.0[/td]

[td]17[/td]

[td]17,526[/td]

[td]88.6[/td]

[/tr][tr][td]3[/td]

[td]
Heat
[/td]

[td]8[/td]

[td]159,326[/td]

[td]19,915[/td]

[td]101.6[/td]

[td]7[/td]

[td]18,159[/td]

[td]96.8[/td]

[td]15[/td]

[td]19,096[/td]

[td]99.4[/td]

[/tr][tr][td]4[/td]

[td]
Mavericks
[/td]

[td]9[/td]

[td]178,555[/td]

[td]19,839[/td]

[td]103.3[/td]

[td]8[/td]

[td]17,731[/td]

[td]89.9[/td]

[td]17[/td]

[td]18,847[/td]

[td]96.9[/td]

[/tr][tr][td]5[/td]

[td]
Clippers
[/td]

[td]10[/td]

[td]190,686[/td]

[td]19,068[/td]

[td]100.0[/td]

[td]6[/td]

[td]18,216[/td]

[td]96.3[/td]

[td]16[/td]

[td]18,749[/td]

[td]98.7[/td]

[/tr][tr][td]6[/td]

[td]
NY Knicks
[/td]

[td]7[/td]

[td]133,231[/td]

[td]19,033[/td]

[td]96.3[/td]

[td]9[/td]

[td]16,866[/td]

[td]90.8[/td]

[td]16[/td]

[td]17,814[/td]

[td]93.3[/td]

[/tr][tr][td]7[/td]

[td]
Lakers
[/td]

[td]12[/td]

[td]227,964[/td]

[td]18,997[/td]

[td]99.7[/td]

[td]5[/td]

[td]18,820[/td]

[td]98.7[/td]

[td]17[/td]

[td]18,945[/td]

[td]99.4[/td]

[/tr][/table]
http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

Wait are you proving that because there are more people on Average for Bulls games at home as your proof?

United Center capacity says 20,917
Staples Center capacity says 18,997

Look at percentages. Home Bulls win it. But look at the highest percentage on the road. That would be the Lakers. Which would mean people pay to see the Lakers.

 

[longstroke]

Nope, he said this,

Of course they dropped, because Jordan retired for the last time.
Bottom line people, MOST people would and do PAY to SEE Kobe (yes even in this stage of his career) before Lebron. Don't get me wrong Lebron is a great athelete, but he does not and will never generate the buzz that Kobe does. Not as many people tuned in to the olympics until Kobe started to play again and oh yeah, the GOLD was brought back to the USA once KOBE decided to play in the olympics again. All Star games rating were down the years Kobe was out and when he came back and was not injured they went back up (and yes Lebron and others were playing in these games when Kobe was hurt).

Now you've added something that I did not intend, moving the goal posts again.

Kobe fans here on Nike Talk are really interesting.

 

[essential1]

Nope, he said this,

Of course they dropped, because Jordan retired for the last time.
Bottom line people, MOST people would and do PAY to SEE Kobe (yes even in this stage of his career) before Lebron. Don't get me wrong Lebron is a great athelete, but he does not and will never generate the buzz that Kobe does. Not as many people tuned in to the olympics until Kobe started to play again and oh yeah, the GOLD was brought back to the USA once KOBE decided to play in the olympics again. All Star games rating were down the years Kobe was out and when he came back and was not injured they went back up (and yes Lebron and others were playing in these games when Kobe was hurt).

Now you've added something that I did not intend, moving the goal posts again.

Kobe fans here on Nike Talk are really interesting.

In home game. Yes. Their arena also seats 700 more.

But away. Look again. Means people from other cities want to see the Lakers.

Look at Overall %. They're tied.

 

[essential1]

Nope, he said this,

Of course they dropped, because Jordan retired for the last time.
Bottom line people, MOST people would and do PAY to SEE Kobe (yes even in this stage of his career) before Lebron. Don't get me wrong Lebron is a great athelete, but he does not and will never generate the buzz that Kobe does. Not as many people tuned in to the olympics until Kobe started to play again and oh yeah, the GOLD was brought back to the USA once KOBE decided to play in the olympics again. All Star games rating were down the years Kobe was out and when he came back and was not injured they went back up (and yes Lebron and others were playing in these games when Kobe was hurt).

Now you've added something that I did not intend, moving the goal posts again.

Kobe fans here on Nike Talk are really interesting.

In home game. Yes. Their arena also seats 700 more.

But away. Look again. Means people from other cities want to see the Lakers.

Look at Overall %. They're tied.

 

[longstroke]

In home game. Yes. Their arena also seats 700 more.
But away. Look again. Means people from other cities want to see the Lakers.
Look at Overall %. They're tied.

That was not his argument. His argument was that people didn't want to see LeBron. The numbers prove him wrong.

Again, you are moving goal posts.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

If Kobe is so good and elite, why is his team losing to so many bad teams this year??

Basketball is a team sport Deuce. Come on man.

 

[Jordan8]

Basketball is a team sport Deuce. Come on man.

 

[Jordan8]

Anybody got that stat where the Lakers are actually a winning team when kobe isnt playing?

 

[deuce king]

If Kobe is so good and elite, why is his team losing to so many bad teams this year??

Basketball is a team sport Deuce. Come on man.

My point is, when is it EVER Kobe's fault.  From you dudes perspective Kobe is "such a great player"..........he's this, he's that.  When does he ever get the blame for his team coming up short as the leader of the team?? When it comes to Kobe, it's always somebody else and never him..........in more ways than one.

 

[denni5themenace]

Always the fall back when accurate Kobe discussions arise. 

You are not built for real life.

What do you guys do when you do not have a report button to rely upon when someone disagrees with you, hide indoors?

things i've learned from this thread:

need to win by yourself to be considered a top player
need to be a pioneer of the game to be considered a top player
need to carry the NBA on your back to be considered a top player
im not built for real life because someone disagrees with me