- Nov 14, 2012
- 36,045
- 12,024
ah, i remember watching lebron win his 2nd championship. good times
IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by goldenchild9,
- Start date
quik1987
Banned
- Apr 21, 2001
- 7,735
- 434
For the visually impaired
Last edited:
- Jul 31, 2008
- 12,209
- 277
Is there a reason you left championships off the list? I'm just curious.
jpzx
Supporter
- Feb 7, 2008
- 58,679
- 28,002
Everything 
- Nov 14, 2012
- 36,045
- 12,024
championships are a team award and kobe has more of them
imaginary finals MVPS on the other hand...
- Jul 31, 2008
- 12,209
- 277
Ahh, thank you for that. I was wondering why the poster would omit such a important statistical feat...it's makes sense now. Salt.
quik1987
Banned
- Apr 21, 2001
- 7,735
- 434
Last edited:
quik1987
Banned
- Apr 21, 2001
- 7,735
- 434
We can discuss the impossible theoretical career of Shaq playing with Jordan
But not the very likely possibility of Lebron winning this year.
Ok
But not the very likely possibility of Lebron winning this year.
Ok
Last edited:
I don't see anything wrong with what quik is askin. He's only projecting this year, he's not saying Bron's got 8 of anything on lock or anything, he's just asking if things go as planned thru this year, then what?
Bron is coming. Fast. He's pounding on the door of top 20-15-10 and soon to be 5 as we all type. It will not be long.
Hell, he may already be there. But he obviously still needs to finish out his prime3-4 more years. 3-4 titles, 3-4 FMVP's, 4+ regular MVP's, the stats he'll put up, he'll be in the top 3 easy if he keeps this pace up.
Bron is coming. Fast. He's pounding on the door of top 20-15-10 and soon to be 5 as we all type. It will not be long.
Hell, he may already be there. But he obviously still needs to finish out his prime3-4 more years. 3-4 titles, 3-4 FMVP's, 4+ regular MVP's, the stats he'll put up, he'll be in the top 3 easy if he keeps this pace up.
- Jul 31, 2008
- 12,209
- 277
Because MVP ain't a team-related award....
- Jul 11, 2006
- 33,457
- 12,584
quik's question is legit. At the pace he's going Lebron may be the greatest ever by the time he's done.
But to respond to AG 47's point. It's stupid to say Reg Season MVP isn't a team award considering no one who's team is in the bottom half of their conference ever wins it and they reward teams whose records exceed expectation.
Or else Kobe would probably have a few MVP's himself, MJ would have won back to back in 89, and Lebron would be going on his 5th in a row this year.
But to respond to AG 47's point. It's stupid to say Reg Season MVP isn't a team award considering no one who's team is in the bottom half of their conference ever wins it and they reward teams whose records exceed expectation.
Or else Kobe would probably have a few MVP's himself, MJ would have won back to back in 89, and Lebron would be going on his 5th in a row this year.
Last edited:
- Feb 22, 2007
- 20,236
- 4,229
See that etc part
Is that where guys start mentioning lesser players like Paul Pierce, Melo, Iverson, Kidd, McGrady, Horry and JR Smith?
Because we've gotten arguments for all those lesser players in this thread
But I disgress I know on my end and many other Kobe supporters we have acknowledged MJ ,Kareem and Russell have had better careers.
Magic its about equal, it depends on what you like better.
Duncan has one less ring than Kobe but he has one more MVP. But he hasn't sustained greatness as long as Kobe has. But I'll be liberal and say Duncan is equal to Kobe.
The only thing Shaq has on Kobe is one more FMVP award. Shaq has less championships than Kobe though Kobe won 2 without him and was the Finals MVP when he won his 2 rings. Shaq wasn't really a factor when the Heat won in 2006 . Him and Kobe have same amount of MVPs but Kobe has finished in top 5 of voting way more times. There's many other stats and records Kobe has over Shaq. So Kobe> Shaq
Wilt. I love Wilt. Wilt was so dominant and in my opinion I think he's probably the greatest player ever but what's his big weakness in his resume? Championships....he only has 2.
Kobe has double the rings Wilt does and has more points and team selections.
Bird was great. He has more MVPs than but he has less rings, less points, less all NBA selections, all stars and far less All Defensive team selections. The Kobe resume is simply better.
Hakeem was great too but as we explained earlier..... Kobe has double the rings as Hakeem and the same amount of MVPs and FMVPs. Also Kobe has more points, records, selections and All-stars than Hakeem. Kobe>Hakeem
Last edited:
- Nov 5, 2007
- 19,391
- 899
Does he have to get 3-4 FMVPs? What if he just gets 2 more?
- Jul 11, 2006
- 33,457
- 12,584
i think that would depend on who your top 3 players ever list is no?
i don't take what cp said as a "lebron vs. kobe" statement, but as "lebron vs. the history of the nba."
and cp with his work ethic, if bron starts playing through injuries the way kobe has, he's got way more than 3-4 prime years left.
this isn't the 80s anymore. with today's sports medicine 10-15 year careers for the greats is going to become the norm.
Last edited:
Yes exactly, but that was my point. quik wasn't counting up 8 rings and 8 Finals MVP's like some other dudes have done on here, he was merely asking about THIS season.
I took it a step further, his ultimate prime which will be to about 31-32.
As for ya'll's questions, hey whatever, 1-2-3 FMVP's, either way he's getting way up there resume wise. The only must he must have is multiple titles. Be it this year, or next year, whenever, he has to get 2, then we can begin. Then you can say Lebron did ____ and it would be pretty much everything the other elites have done. As I pointed out in here with Bird and Duncan, it would be nice if he could get a back to back, but it's not a "requirement" but surely it don't hurt to repeat as a champ. Regardless, he's coming up the list fast and it won't be long before he just straight walks into the top 5, barring anymore 2011 type runs.
Nako, yes, he will play much longer, but at some point, the toll takes. His mileage at 30 will be UNPRECEDENTED. More minutes/games than anybody ever at 30. Kobe was playing sparingly from 18-20. Bron was starting and playing 40 per 80 games a year those years. That's HUGE mileage when you factor in what the next 10 years adds up to. He's a marvel, no question, good shape, eats right, trains, no injuries, all of that adds up well for him, but the mileage also adds up and at some point, he will slow. And to add to that, Wade will be LONG gone in 2 years time. Wade was wearin down heavy last year, add another Finals run, and if they give it a go next year, Wade bein older, more injuries, he's headed down fast, ala Shaq mid 2000's. The mileage adds up. It always does.
I do not mean they are done at 30-31, see Kobe. He has played great the last 2-3 years for his age/mileage, but it's clear, he is not 2009 Kobe any longer. You hit 30-31, 12-1,300 games, 50,000+ minutes and things just change. Notice Duncan has been solid the last 5-6 years, but long gone are his 20-10 days. He can't play 40 minutes, doesn't get 80 games a year anymore, Pop rests him as often as he can, and he still can't get it up in May like 05-06-07 Duncan could. Age/mileage.
So I'm basically saying, Bron has 3-4 "prime" years, then he will try to add to his legacy with 3-4 more "glory" years where anything he does merely adds to his incredible 15-16-17 year career.
See Kareem. In 1980, he was still carrying LA, he just missed game 6 and it cost him a FMVP. 84, still ballin. By 87, he was a shell of himself, still solid, but not THEE Kareem anymore. His glory years, productive, but not his prime, obviously. But still adds up on his resume with every point/board/block, playoff win, title, etc.
Make sense, or ya'll think I'm full of ****?
I took it a step further, his ultimate prime which will be to about 31-32.
As for ya'll's questions, hey whatever, 1-2-3 FMVP's, either way he's getting way up there resume wise. The only must he must have is multiple titles. Be it this year, or next year, whenever, he has to get 2, then we can begin. Then you can say Lebron did ____ and it would be pretty much everything the other elites have done. As I pointed out in here with Bird and Duncan, it would be nice if he could get a back to back, but it's not a "requirement" but surely it don't hurt to repeat as a champ. Regardless, he's coming up the list fast and it won't be long before he just straight walks into the top 5, barring anymore 2011 type runs.
Nako, yes, he will play much longer, but at some point, the toll takes. His mileage at 30 will be UNPRECEDENTED. More minutes/games than anybody ever at 30. Kobe was playing sparingly from 18-20. Bron was starting and playing 40 per 80 games a year those years. That's HUGE mileage when you factor in what the next 10 years adds up to. He's a marvel, no question, good shape, eats right, trains, no injuries, all of that adds up well for him, but the mileage also adds up and at some point, he will slow. And to add to that, Wade will be LONG gone in 2 years time.
Wade was wearin down heavy last year, add another Finals run, and if they give it a go next year, Wade bein older, more injuries, he's headed down fast, ala Shaq mid 2000's. The mileage adds up. It always does. I do not mean they are done at 30-31, see Kobe. He has played great the last 2-3 years for his age/mileage, but it's clear, he is not 2009 Kobe any longer. You hit 30-31, 12-1,300 games, 50,000+ minutes and things just change. Notice Duncan has been solid the last 5-6 years, but long gone are his 20-10 days. He can't play 40 minutes, doesn't get 80 games a year anymore, Pop rests him as often as he can, and he still can't get it up in May like 05-06-07 Duncan could. Age/mileage.
So I'm basically saying, Bron has 3-4 "prime" years, then he will try to add to his legacy with 3-4 more "glory" years where anything he does merely adds to his incredible 15-16-17 year career.
See Kareem. In 1980, he was still carrying LA, he just missed game 6 and it cost him a FMVP. 84, still ballin. By 87, he was a shell of himself, still solid, but not THEE Kareem anymore. His glory years, productive, but not his prime, obviously. But still adds up on his resume with every point/board/block, playoff win, title, etc.
Make sense, or ya'll think I'm full of ****?
- Mar 8, 2010
- 21,800
- 3,553
Normally ^ this...but uh...
Ska, I can't quote all the different things you've typed, so I can only try and go from things you said and things you and I have talked about over the years. So if I misspeak, just correct me, don't take it as me ignoring your work in here or anything.
I get your reasoning for style, but I'm sorry, it makes almost zero sense. You not liking a STYLE of ball, is pointless. RESULTS are what matter.
You keep saying this year that you love THIS Kobe, dishing and diming, etc. But you miss the entire point, that's not HIS job. HIS job, is to be one of the best scorers in the history of the NBA. THEN, do whatever else he can do to add to the team. Very similar to what you like out of Kidd. You credit Kidd (and Ron Artest) for doing "whatever it takes" to win. You give THEM credit for winning, and flat out ignore Kobe for what he does, and just call him a volume shooter and nothing else. You, are, wrong.
(I won't get stats on you, you mentioned not using numbers, so I'll try to keep it to skill)
99 season, Kobe has improved his game so much, so fast, they have no choice but to start him now. But Eddie Jones is still there. So they move Kobe to SF. For the first part of the season, Kobe averages double digit rebounds at the SF spot. When they trade Jones for Glen Rice, then Kobe moves to SG, and stops getting double digit rebounds. Does he suck now? No, his role/job has changed. He is no longer under the hoop, or closer to the hoop at SF, he's up top, ie fewer rebounds, He still got 5 a game and what not, just as he has done for the past 15 years, but not the 10-11 a game he was getting at SF.
Couple years later, Shaq is not the same guy. Injured, playing slow, getting in shape, Phil, the best coach of all time, says Kobe, I need you to carry the offense more. I need you to turn it up and carry a heavier load for us. Kobe goes on that streak, 35+ a night, including 9 straight 40's, a couple 50's mixed in, etc. He goes OFF. Coach asked him to, he did. When Shaq was back in shape, coach then said ok Kobe, reign it back in now, run the offense. Kobe then does.
Kobe has ALWAYS been a gifted passer. He can do it, he just doesn't obviously, it's not his job. He's a scorer. Know that style you love so much? Steve Nash is statistically THE GREATEST SHOOTER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NBA, know what he does? He passes, ALL THE TIME. Do you knock Nash for passing too much when he is clearly the better shooting option than the guys he passes to? I bet you don't. Jason Kidd? He can't shoot. He can't do what Nash does, OR what Kobe does. IMAGINE, just IMAGINE if Phil said Kidd, I need YOU to be the scorer for the next 5-6 weeks while Shaq gets in shape. You Jason Kidd, and your limited as **** offensive skillset, YOU score the ball. Kidd would be unable to help his coach out. He can hit some spot up, nobody guarding him 3's, sure, but ask him to dribble one time and shoot, brick. Go in the post, brick. Shoot a 20 footer, brick. Shot clock shot, brick. IT'S NOT IN HIS GAME.
Back to that whole does whatever it takes. You mean like playing 45+ minutes game after game after game? Do you mean playing thru torn tendons in your shooting wrist, or shooting hand fingers, or knees that get surgery after the season, or a shoulder that is out of place, or an ankle that gives you no lift, and while you play thru those various injuries, you still are expected to get 25+ points, 5 dimes, 5 rebounds, play tough D, play heavy minutes, take pressure shots, face the other team's best defender, with the entire team's defense keyed in on you, yet, his "style" which you don't like is not condusive to winning, but ALL of that, all of that that he does do, to help his team win every single night rather than sitting out, or getting 32 minutes a night like other guys get, none of that helps. None of that is doing what it takes for his team to win, or least, give his best shot for his team to win. But Kidd, and Artest, THEY, get credit from you. THEY, play a style you like, and do their job the way it's meant, for teams to win. Interesting.
Remember me telling you that Artest never won a damn thing, or was a factor his entire career until he joined LA? Funny, huh? Remember Pau dominating the NBA in Memphis, and being such a "winner" before he got to LA? Me either. LO was just coasting thru life for the Clippers and Heat. Was he a "winner" before he got to the Lakers? Hmmmm Trevor Ariza, he was nobody before LA, then won a title, and since has disapeared. Is that not interesting to you? You meantioned "team" conducive players, like Kidd. What you don't credit is the impact Kobe has on those players. They ALL get sore, ankles tweaked, etc. They all need a night off. Then they see Kobe working nonstop and think, damn, I can't miss work, he's messed up more than I am. Are you giving Kobe, ANY credit for the way his teammates view him, and decide to play harder because of the way he plays? You see missed shots, I see a guy killing himself to get the team in position to succeed. One who won't give up, even when it's bleak as **** out there, and the other teams are hitting their shots, Kobe and his team KEEP FIGHTING. That's not conducive to team atmosphere?
Kidd has played with Jim Jackson, Jamal Mashburn, Stat, Penny, Vince, Jefferson, Van Horn, K-Mart, Dirk, Melo. He's had teammates his whole career that help his job get done. He passes, they score. Assists for Kidd. Yippee. Job well done Kidd. The fact he adds NOTHING on offense outside of passing and the occasional O rebound, and a few spot up wide open 3's, what exactly is the style you are seeing that's so special? He's very smart, moves well on his feet, plays smart defense, and passes a lot. No doubt about it. Had a great career, and is a great player. But that doesn't make him better, or more important than someobdy like Kobe who can be asked to do EVERY job on a court, and can oblige, whereas Kidd can not do that for his team/coach. But Kidd shouldn't be expected to,. His job is to pass, Kobe's job is to score. That's what they should be doing.
Do you want Bruce Bowen out there shooting 15 times a game, and passing the ball, and posting up? I bet you don't.
Should Tyson Chandler be out there running the point? Not his damn job.
How bout Rondo? You want him taking 20 shots a game like Kobe does?
Nope. Not their games. But they are GREAT in their role. Defend a guy in the perimeter. Tyson defends down low, and grabs boards. Rondo dishes and runs the team. 100% energy all over the court, getting rebounds, score where he can, set up his teammates. Know their role, do their job.
But you hate Kobe doing HIS job. Cuz YOU don't agree with his style, yet Phil Jackson, Mike Brown, and MDA all are fine with what Kobe does. They know, better than you or I do, that he is doing what he is supposed to be doing. Could he shave off a shot or two and make an extra pass once in a while? Absolutely. But taking that extra shot or two does not transform him from a selfish ballhog, to a team oriented Jason Kidd type player, sorry, no.
You mentioned Kidd never having incredible failure with his special shoestring. WHAT?
Kidd, Rondo, CP3, Nash. Examine their careers. They play the way Magic did. Nash, better shooter. CP3 better scorer. Rondo, more complete than Kidd. Kidd does a little of everything. Nash has had great teammates. Rondo, same thing. CP3 hasn't had as much early in his career, but doin better now. Kidd, some good, some solid, nothing special outside of Dirk. What we have here is about43-45 NBA seasons between these 4 men. 2 titles. One was Rondo as a child with KG, Pierce, and Ray Allen carrying him. The other, was Kidd as an old man, with Dirk going historic.
4 decades of NBA basketball, tons of solid teammates. Great leaders. Pass the ball all the time. Get teammates involved. MVP's won. Don't win the title in 95% of those seasons. The style you love.
Kobe however, played with a Laker team with Shaq that had NO offensive weapons outside of Kobe and Shaq themselves. Rick Fox, Shaw, Fisher, Horry, none of those guys were going to carry an offense, EVER. It was ALL on Kobe and Shaq. ALWAYS.
His later years, he played with Bynum ALWAYS hurt, Pau who never won a playoff game before he came to play with Kobe, Ariza, same, Fisher, LO, Ron Artest, etc. Those players, weren't going to carry an offense outside of Pau. Solid players, who played their roles. And Kobe played his. Early, he was asked to score, distribute, defend, get some boards, hit clutch shots late, and play 47 minutes.
Later he was asked to score, run pick and rolls with Pau/distribute, get some boards, play lesser defense with Ron/Ariza in hand, hit clutch shots, and play 44 minutes.
But you dislike his style, and point to him being 34 with a 7 man rotation battling for the playoffs, and then point to the year he had THREE below NBA level STARTERS on his team, struggling to make the playoffs. THOSE years, those are the ones you use to point out. The 45ish years of the 4 PG's I named, that had players MUCH BETTER than Smush, Walton, or Kwame, and certainly didn't have injuries ever year like LA has had this year, THAT style you enjoy, therefore they move up in how they are viewed in your eyes. The misses shots Kobe who plays every single game he can, injured or not, for 40+ minutes 17 years deep, doing whatever the coaches ask him to do to succeed, his style is overrated. *shrugs*
(uh-oh) This is long. ****.
View media item 355353
- Jan 3, 2008
- 12,102
- 1,410
I too have him down for 4 prime years and then 3 or 4 more 'glory years' if he wants it. I've realized and found funny is that Kobe and Lebron probably position themselves 3,4 on the all time scoring list in some order when they're done and both at worst have top 10 careers. Yet they've been pitted against each other since 2008 or maybe even earlier (even while just playing 2x a year). I'm guilty, I've fed into it too at times. Both remarkable players and not convinced anyone is coming behind them that will join their company 10 years from now.
jumpmanfromdabay
Banned
- Jan 25, 2008
- 25,730
- 2,900
Ok, I may have worded you incorrectly. I see your point do "anything to win" being literal makes no sense. Shaq guarding PG's, Kobe defending 7 footers, I should have said anything within their powers, which in Kobe's case is considerable as he has more God given ability than someone like Kidd.
Alas, that's not what I was getting to, I should have used the words you did with Metta, "things that don't always show up". In terms of doing "whatever it takes to win".
My comparison on Kobe passing, and Kidd scoring stands, Kobe CAN pass, but doesn't as his job is other things. (scoring)
Kidd CAN NOT take over a game offensively outside of his passing. He's not droppin 20 in a quarter, ever. He won't put 30 up in a half to comeback, or get a big lead, or whatever, he does not possess that skillset.
Kobe CAN drop dimes, he COULD do so, you know he's always had the ability to be a solid passer. He knows the angles, he puts the ball in the right spot, he can pass with his left hand (perfect example yesterday) He can do it. Kidd, can not. I wasn't praising Kobe for doing his job and knocking Kidd for not doing his, Kidd can't do it. You can't argue and say that Kidd can, you know damn well you'd be fibbing.
The scoring title stuff, eh, that sacrafice is different. Kobe played his early career with Shaq, he wins more scoring titles without Shaq, but probably fewer actual titles, so I'm sure he's just fine where he's at. The point was moreso so and so does their job better than another, when doing THAT job would require additional features, such as someone else not also scoring 30 points. (which btw, look up the amount of times 2 players on the same team scored 30 in a season, it's a real lonely list, but Shaq and Kobe did it) Which also speaks to my point about the other players on the roster having NO offensive games to speak of back then. Fox, Fish, Horry, Shaw, George needed barely get 25 points amongst them, and that would be enough on a lot of nights. Heavy workload for 2 guys, but it worked for a couple years. But bottom line, I don't care at all about scoring titles. Points are fine, and win the game in a big picture sort of way, but scoring titles mean jack to me. I eye a bigger prize, I only mentioned because of your Magic led __ vs Kobe led __ amounts of times, that's all.
I hear you're point as he's leaving the team, but in his prime, that's not what was needed from him. You or I can't name or put a price on what he did for the club on or off the court leadership wise. Even as a weird dude, quiet dude, etc, his work ethic, knowledge, teaching on the court, tough love, push when needing, demanding, etc is not something we can numerically base. Those things that don't show up in stats sheets if you will. YOU may not enjoy that leadership, but maybe Ariza did. Maybe Pau did. Pau was pretty soft in Memphis. He seemed to toughen up a bit in LA, no? Maybe Kobe helped that?
What everyone say about Dwight? He gotta stop laughing, he gotta get serious. Who did they expect to help him with that? The grouchy old serious guy. Maybe Dwight will learn it, maybe he won't. We'll see. But nobody was sendin Dwight to Pau to get serious, or Ron, or Nash. How do you place a value on what Kobe does off the court? Remember Kobe saying he needs to play thru pain a lil bit? Dwight wasn't on board with that at first. Few days later, Kobe and Dwight tweet a pic of them fake boxing in the lockeroom. Sort of Kobe pushing when needed, maybe backing off when needed. Maybe it was nothing at all. How do you quantify it?
Iono, lot of it might be BS, but on the court, people praise one type of leader, KG, Bron, but they each got completely different ways of going about it. Don't Kobe get some credit for that role, his way, too?
God damnnnn
- Oct 3, 2012
- 792
- 194
Overrated is a matter of opinion.
Therefore, the fact remains that he is not.
Therefore, the fact remains that he is not.
- Mar 8, 2010
- 21,800
- 3,553
no hate, just didn't see a wall of truth coming.O, don't judge me. You got words on this board too.
- Feb 8, 2009
- 12,503
- 925
darthska
Staff member
- Apr 30, 2004
- 46,970
- 31,588
[quote name="MrONegative"][quote name="CP"]O, don't judge me. You got words on this board too. [/quote]no hate, just didn't see a wall of truth coming.[/quote] weird, I just saw a wall of opinion that was similar to yours.
[/quote]no hate, just didn't see a wall of truth coming.[/quote] weird, I just saw a wall of opinion that was similar to yours.
darthska
Staff member
- Apr 30, 2004
- 46,970
- 31,588
[quote name="sea manup"]I still think we are misunderstanding each other, i know that to win a championship you need work ethic, skill, good teammates, a good coach, luck. i agree with everything you said about the many factors you have written about. what i dont agree with is your claim that one style of play is better than the next style of play. thats it. i didnt address the many other parts of your posts because i dont have a problem with that stuff, i only have a problem with that one point. which is why im focusing on it in my posts.
but the tmac cp3 example is just comparing one player with kobe's style of play (tmac) to someone with a little closer to magic's style of play, and saying that when they are placed on a team that is not build to contend for a championship, neither style of play is able to take their respective teams to the next level. just like how iverson and kidd had two very different styles of play but because their supporting cast was not good enough (maybe not all scrubs, but we can all agree that the supporting cast was not good enough for a championship) ended up only making it to the finals and losing, two different styles of play same-ish result. just like kobe and magic, two different styles of play but you put them on teams with great players and great role players and boom 5 championships. i understand that there are a million other variables in this championship equation, but i just dont think that one style of play is better than the other.
i dont mean that kobe/mj's style is the main reason they won all those championships. i actually think style is one of the least important out of the factors listed, i just dont agree with your statement that when magic or shaq won it was because of their style, but when kobe wins its because of all the other factors and has little to do with his style. we are arguing the same thing, you think im saying that kobe's style is the main reason we won the last two championships but what im trying to say is when comparing two players of the same skill level, there is no significant difference between what styles they use when playing the game of basketball. if you said something like "kobe's style is not the only way to win, there have been many other great players using other styles that have also been successful" then i would agree with you, but you said that "not only is kobe's style not the only way to win, but styles XY and Z are all better when you want to be successful" which i dont agree with.
[/quote]Gotcha.
And we definitely just disagree. and neither one of us is right.
you don't think there's a style of play that really matters, and you recognize that there are other factors that go into the championship puzzle. I think that those factors need to be in place, but there are definitely styles of play that make a championship either harder or easier.
but the tmac cp3 example is just comparing one player with kobe's style of play (tmac) to someone with a little closer to magic's style of play, and saying that when they are placed on a team that is not build to contend for a championship, neither style of play is able to take their respective teams to the next level. just like how iverson and kidd had two very different styles of play but because their supporting cast was not good enough (maybe not all scrubs, but we can all agree that the supporting cast was not good enough for a championship) ended up only making it to the finals and losing, two different styles of play same-ish result. just like kobe and magic, two different styles of play but you put them on teams with great players and great role players and boom 5 championships. i understand that there are a million other variables in this championship equation, but i just dont think that one style of play is better than the other.
i dont mean that kobe/mj's style is the main reason they won all those championships. i actually think style is one of the least important out of the factors listed, i just dont agree with your statement that when magic or shaq won it was because of their style, but when kobe wins its because of all the other factors and has little to do with his style. we are arguing the same thing, you think im saying that kobe's style is the main reason we won the last two championships but what im trying to say is when comparing two players of the same skill level, there is no significant difference between what styles they use when playing the game of basketball. if you said something like "kobe's style is not the only way to win, there have been many other great players using other styles that have also been successful" then i would agree with you, but you said that "not only is kobe's style not the only way to win, but styles XY and Z are all better when you want to be successful" which i dont agree with.
[/quote]Gotcha.
And we definitely just disagree. and neither one of us is right.
you don't think there's a style of play that really matters, and you recognize that there are other factors that go into the championship puzzle. I think that those factors need to be in place, but there are definitely styles of play that make a championship either harder or easier.
- Feb 8, 2009
- 12,503
- 925
He has his moments 
