Ska, I can't quote all the different things you've typed, so I can only try and go from things you said and things you and I have talked about over the years. So if I misspeak, just correct me, don't take it as me ignoring your work in here or anything.
I get your reasoning for style, but I'm sorry, it makes almost zero sense. You not liking a STYLE of ball, is pointless. RESULTS are what matter.
You keep saying this year that you love THIS Kobe, dishing and diming, etc. But you miss the entire point, that's not HIS job. HIS job, is to be one of the best scorers in the history of the NBA. THEN, do whatever else he can do to add to the team. Very similar to what you like out of Kidd. You credit Kidd (and Ron Artest) for doing "whatever it takes" to win. You give THEM credit for winning, and flat out ignore Kobe for what he does, and just call him a volume shooter and nothing else. You, are, wrong.
(I won't get stats on you, you mentioned not using numbers, so I'll try to keep it to skill)
99 season, Kobe has improved his game so much, so fast, they have no choice but to start him now. But Eddie Jones is still there. So they move Kobe to SF. For the first part of the season, Kobe averages double digit rebounds at the SF spot. When they trade Jones for Glen Rice, then Kobe moves to SG, and stops getting double digit rebounds. Does he suck now? No, his role/job has changed. He is no longer under the hoop, or closer to the hoop at SF, he's up top, ie fewer rebounds, He still got 5 a game and what not, just as he has done for the past 15 years, but not the 10-11 a game he was getting at SF.
Couple years later, Shaq is not the same guy. Injured, playing slow, getting in shape, Phil, the best coach of all time, says Kobe, I need you to carry the offense more. I need you to turn it up and carry a heavier load for us. Kobe goes on that streak, 35+ a night, including 9 straight 40's, a couple 50's mixed in, etc. He goes OFF. Coach asked him to, he did. When Shaq was back in shape, coach then said ok Kobe, reign it back in now, run the offense. Kobe then does.
Kobe has ALWAYS been a gifted passer. He can do it, he just doesn't obviously, it's not his job. He's a scorer. Know that style you love so much? Steve Nash is statistically THE GREATEST SHOOTER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NBA, know what he does? He passes, ALL THE TIME. Do you knock Nash for passing too much when he is clearly the better shooting option than the guys he passes to? I bet you don't. Jason Kidd? He can't shoot. He can't do what Nash does, OR what Kobe does. IMAGINE, just IMAGINE if Phil said Kidd, I need YOU to be the scorer for the next 5-6 weeks while Shaq gets in shape. You Jason Kidd, and your limited as **** offensive skillset, YOU score the ball. Kidd would be unable to help his coach out. He can hit some spot up, nobody guarding him 3's, sure, but ask him to dribble one time and shoot, brick. Go in the post, brick. Shoot a 20 footer, brick. Shot clock shot, brick. IT'S NOT IN HIS GAME.
Back to that whole does whatever it takes. You mean like playing 45+ minutes game after game after game? Do you mean playing thru torn tendons in your shooting wrist, or shooting hand fingers, or knees that get surgery after the season, or a shoulder that is out of place, or an ankle that gives you no lift, and while you play thru those various injuries, you still are expected to get 25+ points, 5 dimes, 5 rebounds, play tough D, play heavy minutes, take pressure shots, face the other team's best defender, with the entire team's defense keyed in on you, yet, his "style" which you don't like is not condusive to winning, but ALL of that, all of that that he does do, to help his team win every single night rather than sitting out, or getting 32 minutes a night like other guys get, none of that helps. None of that is doing what it takes for his team to win, or least, give his best shot for his team to win. But Kidd, and Artest, THEY, get credit from you. THEY, play a style you like, and do their job the way it's meant, for teams to win. Interesting.
Remember me telling you that Artest never won a damn thing, or was a factor his entire career until he joined LA? Funny, huh? Remember Pau dominating the NBA in Memphis, and being such a "winner" before he got to LA? Me either. LO was just coasting thru life for the Clippers and Heat. Was he a "winner" before he got to the Lakers? Hmmmm Trevor Ariza, he was nobody before LA, then won a title, and since has disapeared. Is that not interesting to you? You meantioned "team" conducive players, like Kidd. What you don't credit is the impact Kobe has on those players. They ALL get sore, ankles tweaked, etc. They all need a night off. Then they see Kobe working nonstop and think, damn, I can't miss work, he's messed up more than I am. Are you giving Kobe, ANY credit for the way his teammates view him, and decide to play harder because of the way he plays? You see missed shots, I see a guy killing himself to get the team in position to succeed. One who won't give up, even when it's bleak as **** out there, and the other teams are hitting their shots, Kobe and his team KEEP FIGHTING. That's not conducive to team atmosphere?
Kidd has played with Jim Jackson, Jamal Mashburn, Stat, Penny, Vince, Jefferson, Van Horn, K-Mart, Dirk, Melo. He's had teammates his whole career that help his job get done. He passes, they score. Assists for Kidd. Yippee. Job well done Kidd. The fact he adds NOTHING on offense outside of passing and the occasional O rebound, and a few spot up wide open 3's, what exactly is the style you are seeing that's so special? He's very smart, moves well on his feet, plays smart defense, and passes a lot. No doubt about it. Had a great career, and is a great player. But that doesn't make him better, or more important than someobdy like Kobe who can be asked to do EVERY job on a court, and can oblige, whereas Kidd can not do that for his team/coach. But Kidd shouldn't be expected to,. His job is to pass, Kobe's job is to score. That's what they should be doing.
Do you want Bruce Bowen out there shooting 15 times a game, and passing the ball, and posting up? I bet you don't.
Should Tyson Chandler be out there running the point? Not his damn job.
How bout Rondo? You want him taking 20 shots a game like Kobe does?
Nope. Not their games. But they are GREAT in their role. Defend a guy in the perimeter. Tyson defends down low, and grabs boards. Rondo dishes and runs the team. 100% energy all over the court, getting rebounds, score where he can, set up his teammates. Know their role, do their job.
But you hate Kobe doing HIS job. Cuz YOU don't agree with his style, yet Phil Jackson, Mike Brown, and MDA all are fine with what Kobe does. They know, better than you or I do, that he is doing what he is supposed to be doing. Could he shave off a shot or two and make an extra pass once in a while? Absolutely. But taking that extra shot or two does not transform him from a selfish ballhog, to a team oriented Jason Kidd type player, sorry, no.
You mentioned Kidd never having incredible failure with his special shoestring. WHAT?
He been knocked out the first round a billion times. He was swept the year after they won the title. He was swept in the Finals. He's missed the playoffs a few times. He's failed, more than he's won. Now you shift that blame to his teammates?
Kidd, Rondo, CP3, Nash. Examine their careers. They play the way Magic did. Nash, better shooter. CP3 better scorer. Rondo, more complete than Kidd. Kidd does a little of everything. Nash has had great teammates. Rondo, same thing. CP3 hasn't had as much early in his career, but doin better now. Kidd, some good, some solid, nothing special outside of Dirk. What we have here is about43-45 NBA seasons between these 4 men. 2 titles. One was Rondo as a child with KG, Pierce, and Ray Allen carrying him. The other, was Kidd as an old man, with Dirk going historic.
4 decades of NBA basketball, tons of solid teammates. Great leaders. Pass the ball all the time. Get teammates involved. MVP's won. Don't win the title in 95% of those seasons. The style you love.
Kobe however, played with a Laker team with Shaq that had NO offensive weapons outside of Kobe and Shaq themselves. Rick Fox, Shaw, Fisher, Horry, none of those guys were going to carry an offense, EVER. It was ALL on Kobe and Shaq. ALWAYS.
His later years, he played with Bynum ALWAYS hurt, Pau who never won a playoff game before he came to play with Kobe, Ariza, same, Fisher, LO, Ron Artest, etc. Those players, weren't going to carry an offense outside of Pau. Solid players, who played their roles. And Kobe played his. Early, he was asked to score, distribute, defend, get some boards, hit clutch shots late, and play 47 minutes.
Later he was asked to score, run pick and rolls with Pau/distribute, get some boards, play lesser defense with Ron/Ariza in hand, hit clutch shots, and play 44 minutes.
But you dislike his style, and point to him being 34 with a 7 man rotation battling for the playoffs, and then point to the year he had THREE below NBA level STARTERS on his team, struggling to make the playoffs. THOSE years, those are the ones you use to point out. The 45ish years of the 4 PG's I named, that had players MUCH BETTER than Smush, Walton, or Kwame, and certainly didn't have injuries ever year like LA has had this year, THAT style you enjoy, therefore they move up in how they are viewed in your eyes. The misses shots Kobe who plays every single game he can, injured or not, for 40+ minutes 17 years deep, doing whatever the coaches ask him to do to succeed, his style is overrated. *shrugs*
(uh-oh) This is long. ****.
I didn't know guys, I'm sorry.
