IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[xx hpdv iii]

Little boy we aren't in 80's and 90's basketball so get your mind out the gutter .

Okay bye .

Did you miss the part where they were talking about hand-checking and whether or not if would affect Bean?

 

[sea manup]

Ska, I'm sorry, but dude stop talking out of your ***.

Must-win game vs. Indiana: 40, 18 & 9 on 14/27 shooting.

Must-win game vs. Boston: 45, 15 & 5 on 19/26 shooting.

Finals clincher: 26, 11 & 13

Show me when Bean Bryant had performances that great, given the circumstances.

Or just call me a troll because you have no rebuttal.

Must win game vs kings 2001 48, 16 and 3 15/29

Must win game vs spurs 2002 42, 6, 5 3 steals 15/27

Must win game vs orlando 2009 40, 8, 8 16/34

 

[sea manup]

Little boy we aren't in 80's and 90's basketball so get your mind out the gutter .

Okay bye .

Did you miss the part where they were talking about hand-checking and whether or not if would affect Bean?

jordan would not be a top5 scorer in todays game, he wouldnt be able to handle a zone

 

[xx hpdv iii]

Just off both of their first finals series as "the man" on their teams:

Kobe averaged 32.4 points, 7.4 assists, 5.6 rebounds against Orlando.

Lebron averaged 28.6 ppg, 10.2 rebounds, 7.4 assists last year against OKC.

Kobe went for 40, 8, and 8 in game 1.

Lebron never scored more than 32 and in that game had 8 and 5.

But yeah, his series last year had 3 better games than Kobe's had in a finals in his entire career.

Dude stop trolling this thread. You're not gaining points from anyone.

Yeah, go ahead and try to spin my reply again.

I DON'T CARE HOW MANY POINTS KOBE BRYANT SCORES WITH HIS TRASH SHOOTING PERCENTAGE.

GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES, KOBE BRYANT HAS NEVER HAD A BETTER PLAYOFF GAME THAN LEBRON IN GAME 4 VS. INDIANA.

GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES, KOBE BRYANT HAS NEVER HAD A BETTER PLAYOFF GAME THAN LEBRON IN GAME 6 VS. BOSTON.

GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES, KOBE BRYANT HAS NEVER HAD A BETTER PLAYOFF GAME THAN LEBRON JAMES' TRIPLE-DOUBLE TO CLINCH HIS FIRST CHAMPIONSHIP.

What part of that is difficult to understand? Nobody cares about Kobe Bryant scoring 40 points on 34 shots in game 1 of the Finals in which he faced a weak team because Garnett was injured.

Nobody brought up anything about his scoring averages.

It's always the same story with you Robin Stans. Total points, and total points only. Never shooting percentages.

Ska, can you just give me ONE pass to say what the hell I want to say to this guy?

PLEASE give me a pass.

Look at what I stated. I stated that LeBron had 3 better playoff games in last year's PLAYOFFS as opposed to Kobe Bryant's entire PLAYOFF career.

What is his response?

He spins it into some complete and utter crap.

On his own, he decides to use NBA Finals' stats only... when I clearly stated PLAYOFF performances.

Then he declares that Kobe Bryant's first Finals' series "as the man" was in 2009 vs. Orlando.

Then he declares that LeBron James' first Finals' series "as the man" was in 2012 vs. OKC.

Ska, CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT IN THE BLUE HELL THIS _________ IS TALKING ABOUT?

Can you give me ONE good reason why I should get banned if I feel like calling a spade a spade.

******g ****.

Then these clowns have the nerve to call me a troll.

I'm not a "troll," you're just uneducated and illiterate.

It is absolutely sickening to me that there's people on this planet like this guy that are allowed to walk around and think their opinions have any merit.

 

[xx hpdv iii]

Must win game vs kings 2001 48, 16 and 3 15/29

Must win game vs spurs 2002 42, 6, 5 3 steals 15/27

Must win game vs orlando 2009 40, 8, 8 16/34

a) You're up 3 games to 0 in the second round of the playoffs. That's not a must-win game.

b) http://www.nba.com/playoffs2002/west_round2_02.html The most points Kobe scored in 2002 vs. San Antonio was 31 points. You're making stats up, but that is to be expected from Kobe Stans because they can't face reality.

c) Game 1 of the NBA Finals vs. a team who is only there because Garnett was injured and really isn't a Finals-worthy opponent... that's not a must-win game at all, not to mention the actual stat-line isn't more impressive than the three that I listed.

Keep trying though. Maybe you can make up some stats that I won't verify.

 

[xx hpdv iii]

If 45% isnt good for a perimeter player you dont know or watch basketball

QFT. So you expect outside shooters to shoot 12/18? Even the best big men don't hit 60%

For reference: http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg_pct_career.html

45% isn't GOOD for any position basketball player.

45% is decent for a shooting guard if you're taking 12-14 shots per game.

45% shooting on 27 shots per game is absolutely pathetic no matter how you look at it.

 

[sea manup]

Must win game vs kings 2001 48, 16 and 3 15/29

Must win game vs spurs 2002 42, 6, 5 3 steals 15/27

Must win game vs orlando 2009 40, 8, 8 16/34

a) You're up 3 games to 0 in the second round of the playoffs. That's not a must-win game.

b) http://www.nba.com/playoffs2002/west_round2_02.html The most points Kobe scored in 2002 vs. San Antonio was 31 points. You're making stats up, but that is to be expected from Kobe Stans because they can't face reality.

c) Game 1 of the NBA Finals vs. a team who is only there because Garnett was injured and really isn't a Finals-worthy opponent... that's not a must-win game at all, not to mention the actual stat-line isn't more impressive than the three that I listed.

Keep trying though. Maybe you can make up some stats that I won't verify.

my bad wrong year

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=240511013

"I don't see how he does it," O'Neal said. "He's a fabulous player, probably the best player that ever played the game, especially with all the stuff he's been going through. And it was a fabulous night for him, a memorable night."

 

[mister friendly]

And before anyone says I can think of better modern offensive seasons by shooting guards, for instance "Jordan had better seasons in 88 and 89" I'm just gonna yell at the top of my lungs "Jordan never faced the zone and he couldn't shoot!!!" and run out of the room.

Once again, why do you insist on narrowing it down to "shooting guards." You're just trying to be strategic to eliminate other players that are also perimeter-orientated. Stop trying to use deceiving tactics to glorify Kobe Bryant. It's funny how you pointed out his 50% and 60% shooting games in the Phoenix series, and then tried keep his 45% season shooting on the low-low.


I don't care how many points a player scores at 45% shooting. There is nothing impressive about it.

Jordan scored 35 ppg on 53.5% shooting.


And even if you wanna play the "shooting guard" game:

As far as I'm concerned, D-Wade's 08-09 season was A LOT more impressive than Bean's 05-06 season. He scored 30 ppg on 49% shooting along with 7.5 assists and 5 rebounds. He took 5 less shots per game. He also took his team to a 7th game elimination. He took his team to a 5-seed. You think Kobe Bryant had a bad roster in 2006?

Udonis Haslem
James Jones
Mario Chalmers (rookie)
Jermaine O'Neal
Daequan Cook
Jamario Moon
Jamal Magloire
Michael Beasley (rookie)

But go ahead and try to convince us that shooting 5 more shots per game to obtain 5 more points per game is impressive.

Let's not even talk about the fact that Wade average 7.5 assists vs. Bean's 4.5 in 2006.
Wanna talk about how D-Wade had 3 times as many blocks vs. Bean?
Wanna talk about how D-Wade averaged 2.2 steals to Bean's 1.8?

Of course you don't. Because, in vintage Bean Stan fashion, you try to glorify Bean's 05-06 season (just like his career) by pointing to ONE stat: points per game.

That season is the story of his career; a lot of shot attempts, a lot of points, an enormous amount of misses... and 45% shooting.


If anyone thinks that Kobe Bryant's 2006 season was better than D-Wades 2009 season, just stop replying to this thread and go read a book.



You're trying to sit here and glorify Kobe Bryant's slightly above average season and then try to justify that he had no help in the playoffs. Did you ever stop for a second to think that if he didn't take 27 shots per game during that season, that maybe the team would have formed a system that would have helped them win one of those 3 straight games they lost after being up 3-1?


You try to sit here and glorify Kobe Bryant's slightly above average season by using slick verbiage ("shooting guard") knowing damn well that using that verbiage will eliminate people from bringing up other perimeter players that have the same role as a shooting guard (LeBron, T-Mac, Melo).


I'm not gonna sit here and go through the numbers of T-Mac's 2002-2003 season and show you why his season was equal to or greater than Beans 2005-2006 season.




Hilarious. You tried to use strategic language to tell us how no player  ("shooting guard") has had a season as good as Bean's 2005-2006 season, and I still busted your balls.




But go ahead and ignore the facts and continue to glorify Kobe "RoBean" Bryant amongst your Lakers' faithful.

Omitted Jordan shot 48 pct when he shot 27 times a game like Kobe did in 2006.

Shooting that much and playing defense is a feat in itself. Its tiring. Thats the reason why you cant find many other players shooting that many times.

ANyways......



Wade's 09 season is impressive but the thing is........NOBODY REMEMBERS IT..... Also when you break it down to True shooting percentages -a real accurate judge of shooting efficent since it measures free throws and 3 pointers....Kobe shot 56 pct in 06. Wade shot 57 pct while Kobe scored 5 more points for his team.

THATS ROUGHLY 500 more points.....it makes a difference

All those other stats are great . He got a scoring title and finished with the 53rd best season for total points in NBA history. His best performance of the season was 50 point 5 and 5 night in a loss to the Orlando Magic

Wade had a great season but Wade still was 2nd place to Kobe on the NBA All Defensive team and finished behind Kobe in that MVP voting. So I guess it wasn't that impressive to NBA voters that are very knowledge about Basketball.

The Heat also had a record 43-39 in a very weak conference and blew a 2-1 series lead to the Atlanta Hawks (That got swept the next series) led by the Joe Johnson.

Want to talk about how bad the 2009 Heat roster was........The 2009 Miami Heat roster had 11 career all star appearances to their names not including Wade.

10 of the players are that roster are still productive NBA players(Chalmers,Anthony, Jones,Beasley, Haslem, Marion, O'Neal, Wright,Livingston and Cook)


Kobe's 2006 season he earned 1st All-NBA honors and 1st NBA All Defensive honors. Kobe also scored 81 points the second-highest point total in NBA history In January 2006 Bryant averaged 43.4 points per game, the highest single month scoring average in NBA history for any player other than Wilt Chamberlain His 2,832 points are the 7th most in NBA history. Kobe finished 2nd most first place votes in the 2006 NBA Most Valuable Player Award,. Kobe also won a ESPY in 2006

The Lakers posted a 45–37 record in very strong conference and lost to a 54 win Phoenix Suns,( who lost in the Western Conference Finals) led by 2 time NBA MVP Steve Nash.
The 2006 Lakers roster has 1 all star appearance to their names. Only 6 of the players on that roster 4 years later were even still in the NBA ( which is the equal to the Heat roster time lapse) (Odom, Walton,Bynum, Turiaf, Vujacic and Brown) And say a couple of those guys are productive is a stretch)
Kobe had no help in 2006....Who the heck was he going to pass to?


So in conclusion Kobe 2006 season was the best season for a guard not named Michael Jordan

 

[seasoned vet]

this thread makes the internet cry.


Ska's last post about Voldermort was on point and should have ended this debate/thread, but cats pushed his logic to the side and just keep going.

 

[lacrimestopper]

wait, what? shooting 45% from the field is not good???

 

[Jordan8]

wait, what? shooting 45% from the field is not good???

dude its below average

Kobe isn't even top 40 in fg percentage this year

Which is the whole point of the thread... He's an average shooter/scorer who just shoots a lot

 

[xx hpdv iii]

wait, what? shooting 45% from the field is not good???

No, it is not good.

And what the hell is so funny?

 

[black entourage inc]

45% has never been a horrible shooting percentage for a guard. It's average, majority of guards shoot around 45%. No it's not GREAT and No it shouldn't be celebrated or used to strengthen any argument, but to say shooting 45% is HORRIBLE is ridiculous.

And EVERY playoff game is must win. I think both Kobe and Lebron would agree with that. A great playoff performance is a great playoff performance....period. Both Bron and Kobe have had great games and they've had wack ones as well.

 

[acbboyz84]

dude its below average

Kobe isn't even top 40 in fg percentage this year

Which is the whole point of the thread... He's an average shooter/scorer who just shoots a lot

Kobe is a better shooter than MJ if you watch the games.

FG% is misleading. A layup still count same as a jumpshot. A mini hook, dunks, etc same.

FG% does not show how the shot was defended nor what kind of shot it was etc.

Lebron shot above 50%. Is he a better shooter or have better midrange game than let say Carmelo or Kobe or Dirk?

No. Lebron made layups and dunks. Is Wade a shooter? Does he shoot the ball better than Kobe, Dirk, Melo, Durant?

Wade have shot 50% too. I guess judging by the stat sheet. Wade is such a great shooter.

 

[mister friendly]

dude its below average

Kobe isn't even top 40 in fg percentage this year

Which is the whole point of the thread... He's an average shooter/scorer who just shoots a lot

Kobe is a better shooter than MJ if you watch the games.

FG% is misleading. A layup still count same as a jumpshot. A mini hook, dunks, etc same.

FG% does not show how the shot was defended nor what kind of shot it was etc.

Lebron shot above 50%. Is he a better shooter or have better midrange game than let say Carmelo or Kobe or Dirk?

No. Lebron made layups and dunks. Is Wade a shooter? Does he shoot the ball better than Kobe, Dirk, Melo, Durant?

Wade have shot 50% too. I guess judging by the stat sheet. Wade is such a great shooter.

Please stop it.....you make too much sense

 

[acbboyz84]

You think Kobe Bryant would survive in 80's or 90's basketball?


Half of his arsenal relies upon crying to the refs for phantom fouls.

The players from that era would literally have knocked his teeth out for performing those female tactics.

hahah bunch of bs and you know it.

Not only would Kobe survive 90s ball but he would put up MJ numbers.

You really think a guy like Kobe, who is known to have high pain tolerance would afraid of a few hard foul?
yea right

If you watch 80s or 90s basketball. Majority of the defenders either have poor lateral footwork or were undersized. Mj made a living on scoring on little guys like Hershey, Stark, Dumar, Isaih and Mougsy Bouges, etc.

Not only would Kobe avergage 30 , 35 points but he would be dominate.

Remember Kobe is 6'6 and fast/athletic. No handcheck is going to stop a big guard like that.

Prime Kobe would take it to the rim at will and make highlight almost every game.

 

[ill steelo]

I couldnt care less if player X takes and makes more deep and/or contested jumpers cause he cant get to the rim as often as (the more efficient) player Y.

 

[acbboyz84]

At basketball reference dot com. If you look at Kobe 3-9 feet FG% and at rim %. It actually pretty high. Early in Kobe career he often just blow past defender and take it to the rim.

 

[darthska]

[quote name="XX HPDV III"]Yeah, go ahead and try to spin my reply again.


I DON'T CARE HOW MANY POINTS KOBE BRYANT SCORES WITH HIS TRASH SHOOTING PERCENTAGE.


GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES, KOBE BRYANT HAS NEVER HAD A BETTER PLAYOFF GAME THAN LEBRON IN GAME 4 VS. INDIANA.

GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES, KOBE BRYANT HAS NEVER HAD A BETTER PLAYOFF GAME THAN LEBRON IN GAME 6 VS. BOSTON.

GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES, KOBE BRYANT HAS NEVER HAD A BETTER PLAYOFF GAME THAN LEBRON JAMES' TRIPLE-DOUBLE TO CLINCH HIS FIRST CHAMPIONSHIP.


What part of that is difficult to understand? Nobody cares about Kobe Bryant scoring 40 points on 34 shots in game 1 of the Finals in which he faced a weak team because Garnett was injured.

Nobody brought up anything about his scoring averages.

It's always the same story with you Robin Stans. Total points, and total points only. Never shooting percentages.



Ska, can you just give me ONE pass to say what the hell I want to say to this guy?


PLEASE give me a pass.

Look at what I stated. I stated that LeBron had 3 better playoff games in last year's PLAYOFFSas opposed to Kobe Bryant's entire PLAYOFF career.


What is his response?

He spins it into some complete and utter crap.

On his own, he decides to use NBA Finals' stats only... when I clearly stated PLAYOFF performances.


Then he declares that Kobe Bryant's first Finals' series "as the man" was in 2009 vs. Orlando.

Then he declares that LeBron James' first Finals' series "as the man" was in 2012 vs. OKC.


Ska, CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT IN THE BLUE HELL THIS _________ IS TALKING ABOUT?

Can you give me ONE good reason why I should get banned if I feel like calling a spade a spade.



******g ****.


Then these clowns have the nerve to call me a troll.

I'm not a "troll," you're just uneducated and illiterate.


It is absolutely sickening to me that there's people on this planet like this guy that are allowed to walk around and think their opinions have any merit.
[/quote]It's not that serious. For real. You will never... EVER... make someone see your point by force or disrespect or whatever. Make ur points, if people see them, cool, if not, cool.

 

[mjgreatxii]

It is absolutely sickening to me that there's people on this planet like this guy that are allowed to walk around and think their opinions have any merit.

As if you don't do the absolute SAME thing right? Ole boy walking round here thinking he's any different then the other kobe haters.

we get it man, you don't like kobe, you are a lebron fan, we get it. For some reason a man you absolutely hate, you CONTINUE to talk about.

but i digress. You're the guy that ******* about something he doesn't like, than turns right around and does it.


and btw the sports writers/media/former players think kobe is one of the greatest ever, but a few guys on NT think he's overrated.

yeahhhhh I'm going with writers/media/former players>

 

[mister friendly]

You think Kobe Bryant would survive in 80's or 90's basketball?


Half of his arsenal relies upon crying to the refs for phantom fouls.

The players from that era would literally have knocked his teeth out for performing those female tactics.

hahah bunch of bs and you know it.

Not only would Kobe survive 90s ball but he would put up MJ numbers.

You really think a guy like Kobe, who is known to have high pain tolerance would afraid of a few hard foul?
yea right

If you watch 80s or 90s basketball. Majority of the defenders either have poor lateral footwork or were undersized. Mj made a living on scoring on little guys like Hershey, Stark, Dumar, Isaih and Mougsy Bouges, etc.

Not only would Kobe avergage 30 , 35 points but he would be dominate.

Remember Kobe is 6'6 and fast/athletic. No handcheck is going to stop a big guard like that.

Prime Kobe would take it to the rim at will and make highlight almost every game.

Yep could you imagine Kobe on Craig Ehlo?

View media item 351437
You'd be seeing that all the time

Imagine Kobe feasting on all the expansion level competition Jordan feasted on.

6 expansion teams came into the league over 8 year period in Jordan's career.

Kobe probably couldve scored 90 points

Kobe wouldn't have been better than Jordan but he would've been his nearest rival. I'm not saying Kobe is better than Jordan in anyway but he's the closest to him.

 

[ncvikingx97]

You think Kobe Bryant would survive in 80's or 90's basketball?


Half of his arsenal relies upon crying to the refs for phantom fouls.

The players from that era would literally have knocked his teeth out for performing those female tactics.

Little boy we aren't in 80's and 90's basketball so get your mind out the gutter .

Okay bye .

Ya. Considering he played well in the 90's, that point is irrelevant.

 

[darthska]

Kobe fans, what about this?

Kobe's brand of basketball is overrated, and Kobe is the best at that brand in this generation.

actually, I know kama because then you'll say "Well then is jordan also overrated? Because he's the father of this brand of basketball."

to which I would reply about the six FMVPs, and how he began his NBA career thinking he'd win games by himself, but didn't actually win championships until he rid himself of that mentality.

and that will lead me nowhere.

so nevermind.

 

[c hanna]

i come on this thread when i need a good laugh

 

[CP1708]

I have a similar question. Why, when Mike, Magic, Larry, Dirk, Wade, Payton, Collins, Reggie, Simmons, Jalen, Ryan, Patrick, Kerr, Nash, Shaq, Phil, West, and plenty of others, players, reporters, front office types alike, why do YOU, NT message board guys think you know more than they do?

For instance, I get why Bron might say Kobe's one of the greats. Be diplomatic, no bulletin board type comments. But these other guys, like a Larry, or a Doug Collins, Simmons (who hates Kobe's guts) they have ZERO reason to call him one of the greats, so why do they? And why would you guys disagree with them?