Is Kobe Bryant Currently The Third Best Player In League?

[fro b giant]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by Menacin Methods

I believe Kobe is the best player in the league. Until Lebron wins a championship no way in hell you can say he's the best player.
So what if he has amazing stats in the regular season? It's all about winning the championship. Remember when Barkley had a killer
season with the Suns? But he fell short to Jordan and the Bulls. I think Kobe rather have the finals mvp then the regular season.

As far as Durant dude hasn't even won a playoff game YET so how is he even in the discussion?

We're talking about THIS YEAR.  Yes....we know Kobe has his rings, but it's a different NBA season.  As of right now, I am failing to see how anyone can say Lebron isn't the best player in the NBA.  Especially if we're talking about both offense and defense.  Some of you guys put a lot of stock into rings...which is fine.  If we're going to measure who had the better career, you can easily make the argument about Kobe having a better one than Lebrons...again, if we're solely talking about THIS SEASON, the torch has clearly been passed.  Some of you Kobe homers are something else....I have a feeling that dude could be retired for 2 seasons and you'd still rank him in the top 3 for current players in the NBA. 

I don't want to get people sucked into this convo any worse then what's already happening, and this is dangerous territory I'm heading into, but imagine all of us back in 98 jumping up and down that Grant Hill and Jerry Stackhouse right now are better then MJ.  Would folks have let that go back then?  I don't think they would have.  MJ had seen and done all, he was on top, til the day he left.  But he clearly wasn't the same player at 34 he was at 29. 
So why should people be sitting here now saying, yup, without a doubt, players X and Y are better then Kobe, yup, no doubt, he's lost a step.  It's over.  Do you see what I'm sayin?  I mean, what if Durant gets bounced in the first round, and Kobe goes on to win a title this year, obviously meaning Bron doesn't, so we're all to sit back and say Kobe's lost it and these other dudes are better cuz they put up monstrous regular season numbers?  Really? 
Now, if Bron goes out and gets a title and Kobe plays horribly in the postseason, NOW you have an argument that no Laker fan can really argue against.  But until we see that happen, why should we believe anyone else besides Kobe is the best player in the game today? 

Just my .02

CP....I hear what you're saying, but Stack and Grant Hill weren't dominant on both ends of the floor like Lebron.  To me, the title the Lakers won in 2009 has little-to-no bearing on who is the CURRENT best player in the NBA.  Like I said, if we're solely judging off of the play of Lebron and Kobe in the 2009-2010 NBA season, how can you sit there and say that Lebron hasn't been far and away the league's best player?  I just don't get why it's so disrespectful for anyone to even suggest that Kobe is the league's 2nd best player....

Are we taking into consideration Kobe is doing all he is with a broken finger on the shooting hand and messed up ankle? My guess is that people don't consider that to be a factor, but how could you not?

 

[baller23217]

IMO, Kobe Bryant possesses the most pure basketball "skill" and therefore, I think he is the best in the world.

LeBron is blessed to have his physical gifts which is a huge advantage for him. No one in the league can match up with him, but LeBron doesn't have that consistent, midrange fadeaway that absolutely cannot be stopped...at least not yet.

 

[so authentic]

kobe stans crack me up its like talking to a brick wall

 

[frenchblue23]

The NBA now must have changed, but no so long ago, I remember if you have the rings, you are the best of the best.

Not so long ago, there was a 35 year old player, still winning and declining a bit, yet he was considered the best of the best, and Mr. Bryant was coming into his own, but yet, he was flashy, ala Lebron.

I guess now its, if you dunk the ball, give me some awesome highlights, and have the best record in the East, you are #1 in the world. hehe. No.

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by NobleKane

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Kobe still need motivation? Dang, biting Money like that, always seeking motivation... Did Phil pay Rolling Stone to write that?

yea because michael jordan is the only player in sports history who is competitive....

Obviously I was joking. See the smiley face at the end?

Just reading some more posts and I still see the same reasons to why most Lakers fans say Kobe is still the best. So what exactly does LeBron have to do to be the best player right now? Not career-wise cause we know he's not touching Kobe yet.

And CP brought up an interesting point about how Grant Hill and Stackhouse were challenging MJ in the late 90's. First of all, let exclude Stackhouse from the convo, he was nothing special or comparable to MJ overall in the late 90's. He did become a special scorer after MJ retired though. Hill had some amazing seasons in which he averaged somewhere around 20-8-7. This was very comparable to MJ as he was obviously getting less rebounds and assists. However, MJ scored 10 more points and his % were also higher. So it was definitely arguable that Hill was "better" than MJ overall in one of those seasons.

Sidebar, other great guards that might have challenged MJ overall include Drexler, Richmond, and Hardaway. Yes, Mitch "The Rock" Richmond... He was selected in the same number of All-NBA teams, 5, as Hill during the late 90's.

So back to the point, we see a similar battle between Kobe and LeBron right now. Obviously, Kobe plays the MJ role and LeBron plays the Hill role. Now looking at how LeBron has passed Kobe in almost every stat category possible except FT %, something that Hill never achieved when being compared to MJ in any of his great seasons, I don't see why LeBron is not better than Kobe overall. Once again, LeBron is not touching Kobe career-wise, but if we take a moment right now and say who is the best player in the NBA at this moment, I would have to go with LeBron.

And being a Kings fan, I know how scary Kobe was/is still. But overall best player in the game, it has to be LeBron.     

Sidebar again, injuries can never be used in reasoning or as an excuse. If that was the case, we could say that the bum in my signature on the right is still one of the game's best. 

 

[baller23217]

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by NobleKane

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Kobe still need motivation? Dang, biting Money like that, always seeking motivation... Did Phil pay Rolling Stone to write that?

yea because michael jordan is the only player in sports history who is competitive....

Obviously I was joking. See the smiley face at the end?

Just reading some more posts and I still see the same reasons to why most Lakers fans say Kobe is still the best. So what exactly does LeBron have to do to be the best player right now? Not career-wise cause we know he's not touching Kobe yet.

And CP brought up an interesting point about how Grant Hill and Stackhouse were challenging MJ in the late 90's. First of all, let exclude Stackhouse from the convo, he was nothing special or comparable to MJ overall in the late 90's. He did become a special scorer after MJ retired though. Hill had some amazing seasons in which he averaged somewhere around 20-8-7. This was very comparable to MJ as he was obviously getting less rebounds and assists. However, MJ scored 10 more points and his % were also higher. So it was definitely arguable that Hill was "better" than MJ overall in one of those seasons.

Sidebar, other great guards that might have challenged MJ overall include Drexler, Richmond, and Hardaway. Yes, Mitch "The Rock" Richmond... He was selected in the same number of All-NBA teams, 5, as Hill during the late 90's.

So back to the point, we see a similar battle between Kobe and LeBron right now. Obviously, Kobe plays the MJ role and LeBron plays the Hill role. Now looking at how LeBron has passed Kobe in almost every stat category possible except FT %, something that Hill never achieved when being compared to MJ in any of his great seasons, I don't see why LeBron is not better than Kobe overall. Once again, LeBron is not touching Kobe career-wise, but if we take a moment right now and say who is the best player in the NBA at this moment, I would have to go with LeBron.

And being a Kings fan, I know how scary Kobe was/is still. But overall best player in the game, it has to be LeBron.     

   Develop post game and improve midrange and free throw percentages

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by Baller23217

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by NobleKane

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Kobe still need motivation? Dang, biting Money like that, always seeking motivation... Did Phil pay Rolling Stone to write that?

yea because michael jordan is the only player in sports history who is competitive....

Obviously I was joking. See the smiley face at the end?

Just reading some more posts and I still see the same reasons to why most Lakers fans say Kobe is still the best. So what exactly does LeBron have to do to be the best player right now? Not career-wise cause we know he's not touching Kobe yet.

And CP brought up an interesting point about how Grant Hill and Stackhouse were challenging MJ in the late 90's. First of all, let exclude Stackhouse from the convo, he was nothing special or comparable to MJ overall in the late 90's. He did become a special scorer after MJ retired though. Hill had some amazing seasons in which he averaged somewhere around 20-8-7. This was very comparable to MJ as he was obviously getting less rebounds and assists. However, MJ scored 10 more points and his % were also higher. So it was definitely arguable that Hill was "better" than MJ overall in one of those seasons.

Sidebar, other great guards that might have challenged MJ overall include Drexler, Richmond, and Hardaway. Yes, Mitch "The Rock" Richmond... He was selected in the same number of All-NBA teams, 5, as Hill during the late 90's.

So back to the point, we see a similar battle between Kobe and LeBron right now. Obviously, Kobe plays the MJ role and LeBron plays the Hill role. Now looking at how LeBron has passed Kobe in almost every stat category possible except FT %, something that Hill never achieved when being compared to MJ in any of his great seasons, I don't see why LeBron is not better than Kobe overall. Once again, LeBron is not touching Kobe career-wise, but if we take a moment right now and say who is the best player in the NBA at this moment, I would have to go with LeBron.

And being a Kings fan, I know how scary Kobe was/is still. But overall best player in the game, it has to be LeBron.     

   Develop post game and improve midrange and free throw percentages

Definitely something LeBron should improve on. Does that mean Kobe has to improve on his rebounding, passing, blocking, and FG %? Or how about telling Kobe to get physically strong like LeBron? *insert Kanye shrug*

I am not asking what LeBron needs to do to be the best player ever, but right now in the NBA. Don't make it sound like Kobe is untouchable and the best ever now. 

 

[cedric ceballos 1995 lakers]

Originally Posted by So Authentic

kobe stans crack me up its like talking to a brick wall

and lebron stans aren't as bad?

 

[fro b giant]

I have said everything a person can say as to why Kobe is the best and all the people for Lebron and just reverting back to stats and can't provide anything else but that. So if you keep saying Lebron is the best then at least give some evidence as to why you think that and stop saying the stats. There is more to being the best than stats ask Wilt about that.

 

[dade b0y]

Post game, better footwork, mid range game blah blah blah. Does Kobe have these advantages over Lebron? Certainly.

But so does Brandon Roy. And he is not in the same stratosphere as Lebon.

Buckets are Buckets.

Lebron James is avg 30/8/7 on 50% shooting.  That's while shooting an avg FIVE threes a game, might I add. That is ASTOUNDING efficiency.  And he has has lead these past two Cavaliers teams, to now two consecutive 66 win pace seasons.

And let's be serious here, Kobe Bryant in place of Lebron on these past two Cavalies teams, would not be nearly as good.  While Lebron on the Lakers current cast, would yield the same results.

The Cavs are a 25, 30 wins (TOPS) team without Lebron James. And would not be CLOSE to being as good with any other star player you can name to to sub in his place.
 
38 year old Shaq, newly acquired 34 year old Antawn Jamsion, and Mo Williams have been Lebron's most legitmaite teammates in his career thus far. Certainly nothing to write home about.

And I don't even mess with Lebron like that, I'm a Miami Heat/D.Wade homer. But, for anyone to deny that Lebron is the best player in the league today, I just don't what you're watching.

 

[sooperhooper]

What's really funny is, Kobe and Bron and a few other stars are somewhere chilling, and unknowingly have internet "lawyers" determining who is better

I'm sure they don't sit around debating who's better, so why should we? Once the clock stops, these guys are chilling, but here on NT, cats pull out stats and documents like it's gonna put a check in their NT inbox.

I always

when I see a post containg like 10 quotes, all like 3 paragraphs long as if this is some type of ammendment to the nation's health care plan.

 

[grimey]

Bean was, is, and will always be better than Lebron. Aha.

 

[JD617]

1989

Michael Jordan - 32, 8, 8 on 54% shooting, 0 rings

1990

Michael Jordan - 33, 7, 6 on 53% shooting, 0 rings


According to some of the logic in here, MJ was NOT the best player in the league in '89 and '90 because he didn't have any rings yet. Bird, Magic, and Isiah were STILL the best in the league at the time. MJ didn't become the best until '91, when he won his first championship.

Do you see how nonsensical that is?

 

[MajinZuub]

You guys really need to give up on this *#%*, it's getting old now.
Do any of you think you're gonna get someone to change their mind and say "Wait, you're right Kobe/Lebron is better!"?

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by Fro B Giant

I have said everything a person can say as to why Kobe is the best and all the people for Lebron and just reverting back to stats and can't provide anything else but that. So if you keep saying Lebron is the best then at least give some evidence as to why you think that and stop saying the stats. There is more to being the best than stats ask Wilt about that.

Alright. You first mentioned that Kobe possessed better skills mentally and physically to be the best player. Quite a subjective opinion imo. How exactly are you backing up that statement without using stats? Stats like how many game winners Kobe has made and how many points he scores in the 4th when it matters. Or how he has shown how strong he is by playing hurt the past couple of seasons. Have to use stats to quantify how many games he has played hurt right? I agree that Kobe might be mentally stronger than LeBron, but LeBron is no longer the same player that was looking to pass in the clutch anymore too. And LeBron is for sure on Kobe's level and probably higher physically.

You even mentioned that Kobe didn't get the best player tag when he was leading the league in stats. Just what year are you talking about that he was leading the league in stats? Being a T-Mac fan, you know I can easily state the countless times that T-Mac's stats have been better than Kobe's in the early 00's. Then we have to insert LeBron in the convo in the mid 00's. Are you referring to the 05-06 season when Kobe was getting 35 points a game, but LeBron was getting 31 himself with better overall stats besides FT%?

You then mentioned how rings were really important. Technically, another stat we have to count, but I thought like most people have tried to say, we are talking about the best player in the NBA right now, not career-wise. You brought up that interview which was funny, but it's also funny that LeBron doesn't care about being the best player, but he wants that ring. So is having a ring actually a causation for being the best player? Or is it a correlation? I'm sure there are a lot of Malone fans out there that will agree that not having a ring doesn't mean you can't be the best individually. Basketball is a team sport that requires everyone to contribute to win a ring. Kobe might be the main reason, but he certainly wasn't the only reason. So the ring argument right there isn't that strong when we consider that Kobe is playing on a team and not by himself in trying to be the best player in the game.

Carrying his team is also something you mentioned. Not much to say as both players have had to carried their teams at one or more points in their career. I guess that was more for the Durant argument from you.

Sidebar, I'm no expert of the NBA during Wilt's time, so I can't say anything about that. 

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by sooperhooper

What's really funny is, Kobe and Bron and a few other stars are somewhere chilling, and unknowingly have internet "lawyers" determining who is better

I'm sure they don't sit around debating who's better, so why should we? Once the clock stops, these guys are chilling, but here on NT, cats pull out stats and documents like it's gonna put a check in their NT inbox.

I always

when I see a post containg like 10 quotes, all like 3 paragraphs long as if this is some type of ammendment to the nation's health care plan.

You know that dude in your avy be telling kids to be so ambitious and trying to change the world. Just doing my part in being ambitious and changing some of NT's minds. Nah, I know I'm wasting time looking back, but it's still fun to me.

 

[baller23217]

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Definitely something LeBron should improve on. Does that mean Kobe has to improve on his rebounding, passing, blocking, and FG %? Or how about telling Kobe to get physically strong like LeBron? *insert Kanye shrug*

I am not asking what LeBron needs to do to be the best player ever, but right now in the NBA. Don't make it sound like Kobe is untouchable and the best ever now. 

I think every player should work to improve every aspect of his game every offseason.

I think LeBron's size and speed are his biggest advantages over Kobe while Kobe has the basketball IQ advantage.  LeBron's athleticism is superior to Kobe's, making it easier to grab more rebounds and block more shots and affect the game that way.

Again, I think Kobe has more basketball skill, but doesn't have the physical gifts LeBron has to affect games and put up the numbers LeBron puts up.

So for me it depends how you want to define "best" when having this conversation.  Either way, I think we're all privledged to be able to watch players of this calibur on a nightly basis.

  

 

[bigmike23]

Originally Posted by bhzmafia14

Originally Posted by youngjordan23


This durant suckage is really starting to piss me off like really

. how does a guy who putting up 29 for a 5th seed surpass the career of D-Wade, Melo, and Kobe, chris paul, hell even Bosh

And people wonder why I say the things I say. Durant is a great ball player, but it doesn't make sense how people ride him and make him out to be more than what he really is.

I know people like him because of his good/humble personality, but he's just in his 3rd year.

He's leading his team to somewhere between the 5th-8th seed in the West. He's not the first guy to do that at a young age. Hell, Wade led the Heat to the playoffs in his rookie season. KD is carrying his team, but its not his roster looks like the Orlando roster from the T-Mac days. He does have another guy in Westbrook and guys like Green and Harden that can step up and score 20+ on some nights.

Just give it time, Durant will have his shine in this league, but put the pipe down immediately.

you say crap like

Rudy gay is better then KD
Oj Mayo has more upside then KD
young will be better then KD

so because some people hype up KD more then they should you say off the wall crap like that? OKKKKKKK

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by Menacin Methods

I believe Kobe is the best player in the league. Until Lebron wins a championship no way in hell you can say he's the best player.
So what if he has amazing stats in the regular season? It's all about winning the championship. Remember when Barkley had a killer
season with the Suns? But he fell short to Jordan and the Bulls. I think Kobe rather have the finals mvp then the regular season.

As far as Durant dude hasn't even won a playoff game YET so how is he even in the discussion?

We're talking about THIS YEAR.  Yes....we know Kobe has his rings, but it's a different NBA season.  As of right now, I am failing to see how anyone can say Lebron isn't the best player in the NBA.  Especially if we're talking about both offense and defense.  Some of you guys put a lot of stock into rings...which is fine.  If we're going to measure who had the better career, you can easily make the argument about Kobe having a better one than Lebrons...again, if we're solely talking about THIS SEASON, the torch has clearly been passed.  Some of you Kobe homers are something else....I have a feeling that dude could be retired for 2 seasons and you'd still rank him in the top 3 for current players in the NBA. 

I don't want to get people sucked into this convo any worse then what's already happening, and this is dangerous territory I'm heading into, but imagine all of us back in 98 jumping up and down that Grant Hill and Jerry Stackhouse right now are better then MJ.  Would folks have let that go back then?  I don't think they would have.  MJ had seen and done all, he was on top, til the day he left.  But he clearly wasn't the same player at 34 he was at 29. 
So why should people be sitting here now saying, yup, without a doubt, players X and Y are better then Kobe, yup, no doubt, he's lost a step.  It's over.  Do you see what I'm sayin?  I mean, what if Durant gets bounced in the first round, and Kobe goes on to win a title this year, obviously meaning Bron doesn't, so we're all to sit back and say Kobe's lost it and these other dudes are better cuz they put up monstrous regular season numbers?  Really? 
Now, if Bron goes out and gets a title and Kobe plays horribly in the postseason, NOW you have an argument that no Laker fan can really argue against.  But until we see that happen, why should we believe anyone else besides Kobe is the best player in the game today? 

Just my .02

CP....I hear what you're saying, but Stack and Grant Hill weren't dominant on both ends of the floor like Lebron.  To me, the title the Lakers won in 2009 has little-to-no bearing on who is the CURRENT best player in the NBA.  Like I said, if we're solely judging off of the play of Lebron and Kobe in the 2009-2010 NBA season, how can you sit there and say that Lebron hasn't been far and away the league's best player?  I just don't get why it's so disrespectful for anyone to even suggest that Kobe is the league's 2nd best player....

I dunno, the scenario I should have used should have been Magic in 89-90-91 with Mike coming up, Mike was the better player per say, but tell a Laker fan to let Magic go. 

I still believe in my soul that if Magic doesn't retire, we come back and get more rings at some point, but thas another story. 
To me, I always look ahead and behind.  See all angles.  It's why i don't ever worry too much about one game, or one stretch or one month, whatever.  It's regular season, it means little. 
Bron is a beast, nobody disputes that, and I know there are a lot of Laker fans in here actin silly and what not, but to me, having just won one, and going for it again, playing hurt, etc etc, can we all sit here with all certainty and say Bron would be just as good with a broken finger?  You sure?  His track record was sit 5 games with a sprained pinkie.  Kobe played a whole season wtih a BROKEN pinkie.  Track record doesn't mean anything?  If anything, Kobe is damn near having a better year this year then he was last year, minus his free throw shooting (which I have no idea what the hell is goin on there but it's pissing me off)  and that's with injuries and getting older, slower, less athletic.  And again, game on the line, THIS season as everyone likes to keep bringing up, who do you want to have the ball?  Is that not a measure of who is better?  *shrugs* 

Like I said, I don't care if someone says Bron is better, fine by me, much like Mike was said to be better then Magic, or Bird was better, etc etc.  But beating Magic wasn't no picnic.  And beating Kobe won't be either.  So let everyone come and get it.  As a Laker fan that has seen a lot over the years, I welcome the challenges. 

  

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

You bring up good points CP. I already addressed your Hill and Stackhouse scenario earlier back, but I won't dwell on the young Mike and Magic scenario you brought up. I'm not old like you so I'll take a pass.

You mentioned seeing things in all angles which is good, but LeBron has been pretty consistent in having the best overall stats in the game for half a decade now. You also bring up injuries. I think the injuries argument only helps Kobe, but it does not make LeBron worse because he hasn't done what Kobe has. Lets give LeBron an opportunity first before we judge him. Doesn't LeBron have a short track record of being injured too? Like you said, lets look at things from the past and future. We can't say LeBron can't play hurt just because in his only opportunity this year, he didn't play. He still has time to either prove you wrong or right. But yes, the injury argument is a + for Kobe, but it is not a - for LeBron. He needs more injuries I guess...

I'll ignore the part about Kobe playing better even when he got older this year. Once again, + to Kobe, but that doesn't affect LeBron's overall play as we are trying to compare the two players. Technically, since LeBron is young still and Kobe is old, this argument doesn't even apply because we would be criticizing LeBron for not being old and good like Kobe.

Who should have the ball on the line is very subjective. I know 99% of the people would choose Kobe because of his reputation, but being clutch is just one category to use in an argument for Kobe. And it's not like LeBron is weak and passive in the clutch now.

It will be hard to summarize the + and - for each player and then weight each category objectively. It is a never ending story I guess. But just saying though, some of the more subjective reasoning is from the Kobe camp. Stats don't lie for the most part.

 

[you go boy]

i dont like kobe and even i know hes top 2 in the league... its really a toss up whos number 1 but for me its bron....

 

[usctrojan00]

Everyone has a right to their opinion. Doesn't mean one person is right or wrong. Each person's criteria is different. For example - for some voters, the MVP award doesn't go to the best player in the NBA but actually the most valuable (one can argue that Nash wasn't the best player in the game when he won). While other voters argue that MVP should go to the best player in the league. It all comes down to criteria when discussing such subjective topic.

My criteria is this - If I have one game to win, who do I choose? I'll liken this to playing pick-up ball and I am a captain and had the choice. I would choose Kobe by a sliver over Lebron. That is my criteria. Offensively, Kobe can score in so many ways - 3 point, mid-range, driving to the hoop. Personally, I give the nod on the offensive side to Kobe. Defensively, you coud argue Lebron and Kobe are comparable. I would even be fine saying Kobe and Lebron are 1A and 1B.


I am not even a Laker fan (I'm a Celtics fan) and I actually am not a fan of Kobe. Personally, Lebron is more likable, as well. I am just trying to be unbiased as possible and only speak to wht my criteria is. I go back and forth with the guys after...I think Melo has increased his game on both ends. I love how Durant has re-energized the Thunder. And, I love Paul. But, a healthy Wade is probably my #3.

 

[fro b giant]

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

You bring up good points CP. I already addressed your Hill and Stackhouse scenario earlier back, but I won't dwell on the young Mike and Magic scenario you brought up. I'm not old like you so I'll take a pass.

You mentioned seeing things in all angles which is good, but LeBron has been pretty consistent in having the best overall stats in the game for half a decade now. You also bring up injuries. I think the injuries argument only helps Kobe, but it does not make LeBron worse because he hasn't done what Kobe has. Lets give LeBron an opportunity first before we judge him. Doesn't LeBron have a short track record of being injured too? Like you said, lets look at things from the past and future. We can't say LeBron can't play hurt just because in his only opportunity this year, he didn't play. He still has time to either prove you wrong or right. But yes, the injury argument is a + for Kobe, but it is not a - for LeBron. He needs more injuries I guess...

I'll ignore the part about Kobe playing better even when he got older this year. Once again, + to Kobe, but that doesn't affect LeBron's overall play as we are trying to compare the two players. Technically, since LeBron is young still and Kobe is old, this argument doesn't even apply because we would be criticizing LeBron for not being old and good like Kobe.

Who should have the ball on the line is very subjective. I know 99% of the people would choose Kobe because of his reputation, but being clutch is just one category to use in an argument for Kobe. And it's not like LeBron is weak and passive in the clutch now.

It will be hard to summarize the + and - for each player and then weight each category objectively. It is a never ending story I guess. But just saying though, some of the more subjective reasoning is from the Kobe camp. Stats don't lie for the most part.

RIGHT, he hasn't proven anything, wrong or right. He hasn't proven he can win a championship even though he got to the Finals, well let's give him the benefit of the doubt and give him 6 chances like Kobe's had.



That's fine, until then he's not the best. If we are giving someone a chance to prove us WRONG we are going to give them a chance to PROVE us RIGHT too, until then you can't say he is or isn't the best because he hasn't PROVEN anything yet!




Dear Mr. James,




I beg you, will your team to the Finals please do it. I want to be able to revisit this again so we can emphatically prove who the best is either way. I am tired of these Kobe vs. Lebron posts whereby people who love Lebron have no reason to believe he is King of anything but his own home come and talk all kinds of nonsense saying things like "let's give him a chance", "he has better stats so he must be the best", "Kobe's old and Lebron is young, let's discount Kobe for being old and give kudos to Lebron for his youth, oh but wait when the argument is used the other way let's ignore it or say oh we can't give kudos to Kobe because even though he's old he is playing great and don't discount Lebron for his being young". Basically I am tired of hearing how great you are and how you are such a physical specimen and how people want you to win, they want to crown you before you have done anything of deserving that crown! I am sick and tired of it Lebron, so please make it there so Kobe can KICK YOUR $*! and put to bed the notion that you somehow although having made the Finals once and losing (sorry old wound) you are the best in the world. I must live in some kind of bizzaro world where you don't have to accomplish your ultimate goals to be considered as the best! Just do it Lebron "I refuse to call you King till you win something that matters" James.




With a hope,

Michael D.




P.S. I am sure that even when Kobe spanks your $*! like a child your fans will come to your rescue citing ridiculous stats such as your bowling score, you wore more headbands in your career (oh yeah but Kobe's fro was bigger

), and if you add your social security numbers together it's a higher number than Kobe's as reasons why you are the best. It won't change or stop, but I still want to see you lose.







BTW I am j/k but at the same time I'm not

 

[lilpennymagicfan]

Originally Posted by Fro B Giant

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by FrenchBlue23

I hate labels.

Whoever is holding up that Finals MVP trophy, along with the Larry O'Brien at the end of the year, is the best player at that moment.

Yeah, I sure remember you Lakers fans agreeing wholeheartedly with this logic in threads after the 07-08 season finished and Paul Pierce made this statement about himself.

Since when does he speak for all Lakers fans???
It's his opinion, it is my opinion that Kobe possesses the skills both physically and mentally to be considered best player in the league, James is #2.

My beef is with people don't want to give Kobe credit for being the best he has to make you give it to him. He goes and wins rings with Shaq and it's "he rode his coat tail". He wins one without him then it's, "he had Gasol he's 2nd best in the league behind Lebron", now they are saying Durant is #2 

and Kobe #3. 

Really? You are going to say a second year player is 2nd best player in the world? He hasn't won anything, he hasn't been given a chance to be consistent!!!!! He has one good year and HASN'T EVEN FINISHED IT YET, and they want to anoint this kid! He is a freakin' kid give him time, what happened to the days where you had to prove yourself first before people crowned you KING???

As for James, I like him, I really do but please get back to me when he wins a ring, just ONE, that's not too much to ask? As for Durant, really good player but #2??? I really don't understand these people and their logic...

I do see some of your points but read the topic of the thread...

the lakers won a ring LAST YEAR. Kobe did not win the ring alone. NOT to discredit him but c lee missed a layup, fish hit 2 big 3s, howard missed free throws. Lakers won the series. Kobe does have 4 rings but dont pretend like kobe played 1 on 5 and won them rings..

I dont think durant is better than kobe at this very moment because he still does have a lot of holes in his game and kobe is more polished and poised on both ends of the floor even though he only plays d in the 4th.

Lebron is ahead of Kobe whether you admit it or not. When somebody asks who is the better player CURRENTLY you cant say kobe won a ring last year and has 4 total and lebron and durant got 0 because that is an unfair arguement. He was askin as of today who do you think is better. Thats like sayin mj is still better than kobe because mj got 6 rings... NOOOO mj Might have been the better overall player and have a better legacy but CURRENTLY kobe is a better player than mj.
  

 

[blowdawhistle]

Originally Posted by sooperhooper

What's really funny is, Kobe and Bron and a few other stars are somewhere chilling, and unknowingly have internet "lawyers" determining who is better

I'm sure they don't sit around debating who's better, so why should we? Once the clock stops, these guys are chilling, but here on NT, cats pull out stats and documents like it's gonna put a check in their NT inbox.

I always

when I see a post containg like 10 quotes, all like 3 paragraphs long as if this is some type of ammendment to the nation's health care plan.

I hear what your saying, but what everyone is doing is no different that what goes in most barbershops, sports bars, etc.... That's part of what makes sports fun is debating over stuff like this...