Ice hockey 2010 Winter Olympics (CANADA VS. USA GOLD MEDAL 3:15PM EST SUNDAY)

[never seen b4]

Originally Posted by cquan05

Originally Posted by Never Seen B4

Originally Posted by What up

Never Seen B4 wrote:

---

What up wrote:

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The Russians are SOFT.

Everyone besides Ovechkin is charmin.

  

 You were saying?  I can't believe people were actually thinking the Russians would do anything. 

This game is far from over. Do you need to be reminded that we dominate "your game".
^That is the quote I was referring to. As you can tell, it's a Russian saying this (He has stated he is Russian) and getting mad because his team got dismantled. The typical cocky attitude of a Russian hockey fan is shown here.




How was that cocky? You're a lame plain and simple. Funny how you got the facts presented and you backpedled to say you weren't addressing Carlos Tevez. The bottom line is that's the first time you beat us in Olympic play in 50 years. You can't dispute the numbers either, 7 olympic gold medals to Canada' s "this is our game" 1. We have 23 World Championships to your 5. Don't give me that BS either about using the NHL in general either, that's weak sauce.

My hats off to the Canadians last night, we were manhandled, but that doesn't change the fact that you're still a lame cquan05.

 

[son of troy]

Originally Posted by dmxfury

I was in diapers when the Cold War ended. 

The wife is a U.S. history teacher that goes from Industrialization till today, so I read/hear about this stuff ALL THE TIME

Hey no need to for the

 . I was just pointing out that I didn't hold any grudge against Russia due to the Cold War because I wasn't even old enough to grasp it.

  

 

[DeadsetAce]

Originally Posted by Physicx

finland eh?

you must be the only one

great metal up there

HIM is from finland

so is tuukka rask

 

[dmxfury]

Nothing meant by the grin either, just letting you know I am not that old to remember it very well either! I may be old but not that old ha ha

 

[dmxfury]

And when I said read about this stuff I meant the history of the Cold War. Most interesting time period in our country in my opinion

 

[proshares]

I can't believe Russia AND Sweden are not going to medal.

 

[never seen b4]

Originally Posted by Proshares

I can't believe Russia AND Sweden are not going to medal.

That makes both of us. I still am in shock from that beating we took last night

 

[carlos tevez]

Originally Posted by goofy08

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

Originally Posted by cquan05

^Funny, it wasn't you I was thinking of though.

I wouldn't say Russians dominate hockey.......I really don't know how I'll explain this

, maybe when I think of the NHL or hockey in general, I don't think of the Russians?

. Obviously as you have shown Russia has won all the world events etc......but when I think of the best players that have played our game, and the # of Canadians on each Stanley Cup winning team throughout the years, it doesn't seem to show the Russians are the majority of players. Sounds stupid I know......I'll have to try and think of a better way to explain my side.

Yeah but you have to remember that the NHL was dominated by Canadians/Americans until just recently (last 20 years). Sure, there were some Euros playing in the NHL in the 70s and 80s but the league was like 98% North American. So of course there have been far more Canadian Stanley Cup winners than Russians.

I think that while Canada have probably produced more quality players than Russia, it has not translated to as much international success as the Russians have experienced. My problem is with Canadians thinking that having the best players makes your team the best and that Canada are the best hockey country ever when this couldn't be further from the truth.

In the history of hockey, Canada and Russia have been pretty close in Olympic gold/world championships won. In the last 50 years, it has been mostly Russian domination. The last 10 years or so has seen a surge in Canadian international hockey success. Canada won a Gold in the 02 Olympics and have a chance to win another one on Sunday while Russia have not won an Olympic gold since 1992. Canada have also recently won more WCs than Russia.

Anyways, this increased competition is great for the game of hockey. We have 7 really good teams (Czechs, Slovaks, Swedes, Finns, US, Canada, Russia) and Switzerland aren't bad as well. It's a shame this tournament isnt in a more neutral venue as I think it'd make this tournament more wide open. It being in Canada gives the Americans a 'home ice' feel and playing at home gives an already good Canada team an added advantage.

But the olympics were restricted to amateur players until 1998, since Canada, the Chezch, and Sweden all have won gold, and the World Championships coincede with the Stanley Cup playoffs every year so alot of top Canadians (and now Russians too) are still playing for their respective NHL teams. The Canada Cup/World Cup of Hockey which has been taking place since 1976 and allows professionals to participate - of the 7 tournaments Canada's won 5, Russia's won 1, and the US has won 1. Both Russia and Canada have had decades where the dominated the World Junior tournament - so I think it's fair to say both contries are dominant in their own right on the international stage recently. 

Yes, all the points you make are very valid.

I'm just saying though that Canadians have little reason to think that "We are the best", "We are the most dominant", "This is OUR game", etc. etc. when the last 50 years has proved otherwise.

Another thing I'll note just to counter your point about amateurs in the Olympics. The majority of Canada's Gold medals/WCs came in the first half of the last century when Canada did dominate the sport. However, the USSR/Russia just completely dominated after that. It just shows that the USSR took over the sport at the international level. It's not like the Canadian amateurs weren't competitive...they finished 2nd and 3rd a number of times at the Olympics but overall they werent as good as the Russians.

Would Canada have had more international success if NHLers were allowed to participate back in the 60s, 70s and 80s? Probably. But the notion that Canada has "dominated" the sport at the international level is a myth. Look no further than the most recent Olympic and WC's. We've had 3 different winners in the past 3 Olympics (with professional players) and we've had plenty of parity at the WC's in the past 20-years (Canada is still able to send some very good NHLers).

About the USA All-Stars...the US team is very young so at the moment they dont have many all-stars. Canada's team is mixed with youth and experience so Canada has way more All-Stars.

 

[proshares]

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

Damn, might be the last time I ever get to see Jagr play

Hopefully he returns to the NHL next season.

Same way I feel about Forsberg

 

[never seen b4]

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

Originally Posted by goofy08

Carlos Tevez wrote:

---

cquan05 wrote:

---

^Funny, it wasn't you I was thinking of though.

I wouldn't say Russians dominate hockey.......I really don't know how I'll explain this

, maybe when I think of the NHL or hockey in general, I don't think of the Russians?

. Obviously as you have shown Russia has won all the world events etc......but when I think of the best players that have played our game, and the # of Canadians on each Stanley Cup winning team throughout the years, it doesn't seem to show the Russians are the majority of players. Sounds stupid I know......I'll have to try and think of a better way to explain my side.

Yeah but you have to remember that the NHL was dominated by Canadians/Americans until just recently (last 20 years). Sure, there were some Euros playing in the NHL in the 70s and 80s but the league was like 98% North American. So of course there have been far more Canadian Stanley Cup winners than Russians.

I think that while Canada have probably produced more quality players than Russia, it has not translated to as much international success as the Russians have experienced. My problem is with Canadians thinking that having the best players makes your team the best and that Canada are the best hockey country ever when this couldn't be further from the truth.

In the history of hockey, Canada and Russia have been pretty close in Olympic gold/world championships won. In the last 50 years, it has been mostly Russian domination. The last 10 years or so has seen a surge in Canadian international hockey success. Canada won a Gold in the 02 Olympics and have a chance to win another one on Sunday while Russia have not won an Olympic gold since 1992. Canada have also recently won more WCs than Russia.

Anyways, this increased competition is great for the game of hockey. We have 7 really good teams (Czechs, Slovaks, Swedes, Finns, US, Canada, Russia) and Switzerland aren't bad as well. It's a shame this tournament isnt in a more neutral venue as I think it'd make this tournament more wide open. It being in Canada gives the Americans a 'home ice' feel and playing at home gives an already good Canada team an added advantage.

But the olympics were restricted to amateur players until 1998, since Canada, the Chezch, and Sweden all have won gold, and the World Championships coincede with the Stanley Cup playoffs every year so alot of top Canadians (and now Russians too) are still playing for their respective NHL teams. The Canada Cup/World Cup of Hockey which has been taking place since 1976 and allows professionals to participate - of the 7 tournaments Canada's won 5, Russia's won 1, and the US has won 1. Both Russia and Canada have had decades where the dominated the World Junior tournament - so I think it's fair to say both contries are dominant in their own right on the international stage recently. 
Yes, all the points you make are very valid.

I'm just saying though that Canadians have little reason to think that "We are the best", "We are the most dominant", "This is OUR game", etc. etc. when the last 50 years has proved otherwise.

Another thing I'll note just to counter your point about amateurs in the Olympics. The majority of Canada's Gold medals/WCs came in the first half of the last century when Canada did dominate the sport. However, the USSR/Russia just completely dominated after that. It just shows that the USSR took over the sport at the international level. It's not like the Canadian amateurs weren't competitive...they finished 2nd and 3rd a number of times at the Olympics but overall they werent as good as the Russians.

Would Canada have had more international success if NHLers were allowed to participate back in the 60s, 70s and 80s? Probably. But the notion that Canada has "dominated" the sport at the international level is a myth. Look no further than the most recent Olympic and WC's. We've had 3 different winners in the past 3 Olympics (with professional players) and we've had plenty of parity at the WC's in the past 20-years (Canada is still able to send some very good NHLers).

About the USA All-Stars...the US team is very young so at the moment they dont have many all-stars. Canada's team is mixed with youth and experience so Canada has way more All-Stars.




That pretty much ends that debate. cquan05 will still try to refute it though.

 

[carlos tevez]

Originally Posted by Proshares

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

Damn, might be the last time I ever get to see Jagr play

Hopefully he returns to the NHL next season.

Same way I feel about Forsberg

Forsberg, I can understand. Dude is just injury prone beyond belief. His reason for not playing in the NHL is simply because he cant stay healthy.

Jagr on the other hand is healthy, he's still very good, but his reason for not playing in the NHL is because no one will give him the type of money he's making in the KHL. Enough dude...you were the highest earning NHLer for a decade and you have more than enough money and yet you rather play in an inferior league just for more money. Imagine this dude on a team like the Caps getting 60-70 pts and helping them make a deep playoff run. This selfish bastard

 

[theprocessofbelief]

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

Originally Posted by theprocessofbelief

Originally Posted by AddictedToFreshKicks

@ Dan Boyle.... what a &%&%& move.

Don Cherry probably didn't see it though...

  

 Does his opinion matter to you? Mind your tongue, Don Cherry is a national treasure.

I hope your joking because Don Cherry is an embarrassment to all Canadians

Him and his ugly suits, prejudice towards Euros/Francophone Canadians and his macho-man attitude that is opposed to mandatory visors and glorifies violence.

Oh, word? You opinion must be fact. My mistake! HOW AWFULLY INGORANT OF ME TO OVERLOOK THIS.

Let me address your in-dept thesis here.

His suits are untouchable, I'm sorry. For lack of a better word, his swag is unbelieveable.

Your second point is true, and it is something I dislike about him, howeverm it has gotten better in the past 5-6 years. Not corrected, mind you, but better. Either he is learning tolerance, or is pretending...

I see his side of the arguement for visors though.... but that's neither here nor there. Mandatory visors isn't ruining the game. These are grown men, let them make their own decisions. 

Glorifies violence? Absolutely. Let me say you are in the severe minority of people who tune into hockey if you think fighting/cheap shots, ect aren't part of the game.


In the end, though, its your opinion, love or hate him... seems like there is no in-between. But please don't say he is an embarrassment to an entire country. That man has done more for kids causes then you or I ever will.
  

 

[dmxfury]

Or end his career with the Pens. Maybe fans would be nice to him, I never blamed him for leaving

 

[rocksfan25]

Originally Posted by Never Seen B4

Originally Posted by cquan05

Originally Posted by Never Seen B4

Originally Posted by What up

Never Seen B4 wrote:

---

What up wrote:

---

The Russians are SOFT.

Everyone besides Ovechkin is charmin.

  

 You were saying?  I can't believe people were actually thinking the Russians would do anything. 

This game is far from over. Do you need to be reminded that we dominate "your game".

^That is the quote I was referring to. As you can tell, it's a Russian saying this (He has stated he is Russian) and getting mad because his team got dismantled. The typical cocky attitude of a Russian hockey fan is shown here.




How was that cocky? You're a lame plain and simple. Funny how you got the facts presented and you backpedled to say you weren't addressing Carlos Tevez. The bottom line is that's the first time you beat us in Olympic play in 50 years. You can't dispute the numbers either, 7 olympic gold medals to Canada' s "this is our game" 1. We have 23 World Championships to your 5. Don't give me that BS either about using the NHL in general either, that's weak sauce.

My hats off to the Canadians last night, we were manhandled, but that doesn't change the fact that you're still a lame cquan05.

How's that BS though? Which of Russia's best players up until the very late '80s/early '90s weren't allowed to play internationally? The first major Russians I think of in the NHL are Igor Larionov, Sergei Markov, Pavel Bure, and Alexander Mogilny; none of them played until '89 (plus two of them were already past their prime). A quick google search names Sergei Priakin (who?) as the first USSR player in the NHL and that was right at the same time.

and to the other dude posting a couple up, Don Cherry is an embarrassment but not quite as bad as Ron MacLean

 

[theprocessofbelief]

 WHAT?

This should be gold. Please, enlighten me.

 

[never seen b4]

Originally Posted by rocksfan25

Originally Posted by Never Seen B4

Originally Posted by cquan05

Originally Posted by Never Seen B4

Originally Posted by What up

Never Seen B4 wrote:

---

What up wrote:

---

The Russians are SOFT.

Everyone besides Ovechkin is charmin.

  

 You were saying?  I can't believe people were actually thinking the Russians would do anything. 

This game is far from over. Do you need to be reminded that we dominate "your game".

^That is the quote I was referring to. As you can tell, it's a Russian saying this (He has stated he is Russian) and getting mad because his team got dismantled. The typical cocky attitude of a Russian hockey fan is shown here.

How was that cocky? You're a lame plain and simple. Funny how you got the facts presented and you backpedled to say you weren't addressing Carlos Tevez. The bottom line is that's the first time you beat us in Olympic play in 50 years. You can't dispute the numbers either, 7 olympic gold medals to Canada' s "this is our game" 1. We have 23 World Championships to your 5. Don't give me that BS either about using the NHL in general either, that's weak sauce.



My hats off to the Canadians last night, we were manhandled, but that doesn't change the fact that you're still a lame cquan05.

How's that BS though? Which of Russia's best players up until the very late '80s/early '90s weren't allowed to play internationally? The first major Russians I think of in the NHL are Igor Larionov, Sergei Markov, Pavel Bure, and Alexander Mogilny; none of them played until '89 (plus two of them were already past their prime). A quick google search names Sergei Priakin (who?) as the first USSR player in the NHL and that was right at the same time.

and to the other dude posting a couple up, Don Cherry is an embarrassment but not quite as bad as Ron MacLean




Do you really want to get involved in this too? Let me break it down for you like this. The comment made by cquan05 was that he really didn't think ofRussians dominating Hockey. He then went on to say that the best players he thinks of were Canadiens and all of the Stanley Cups throughout the years.

We weren't allowed to play in the NHL under the Soviet Union. Funny how you managed to google our first player to sign a contract and failed to read about the history. We have only been in the NHL for 20 years now. Of course Canadians are going to be thought of more when you reminicse about past Stanley Cup winners, what idiot wouldn't?
That my friend is why I said it's BS. We have only been allowed to play for the last 2 decades.

Now let's discuss international play, the only level we were allowed to participate in up until the last 2 decades. The true measuring stick as to where you stand amongst the competition mind you. We have dominated it since "Canadian" Hockey was played in Moscow. I see where cquan is coming from though, it's a pride thing. He lives in the birthplace of hockey (Toronto) if I am not mistaken. It's similar to the way New Yorkers feel about Hip Hop. Like NY'ers, Canadians want to remind everyone it's there game even if they aren't running it anymore.

 

[e5antos]

Anywho, Canada vs USA in womens tonight. 630 et.
I'm expecting to see a good game.

 

[rocksfan25]

^that's getting too long so I'm not quoting it...

I'm not defending that other guy's stance that Canada has the best players. The whole (dumb) Stanley Cup point he made has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. You on the other hand are also attempting to make a very similar point in the reverse. Canada's best players almost never got to play internationally during that period. How then can you use international accomplishments as a measuring stick for success? My point is, you really cannot compare the two except on the junior level during that time period.

 

[carlos tevez]

Originally Posted by theprocessofbelief

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

Originally Posted by theprocessofbelief

Originally Posted by AddictedToFreshKicks

@ Dan Boyle.... what a &%&%& move.

Don Cherry probably didn't see it though...

  

 Does his opinion matter to you? Mind your tongue, Don Cherry is a national treasure.

I hope your joking because Don Cherry is an embarrassment to all Canadians

Him and his ugly suits, prejudice towards Euros/Francophone Canadians and his macho-man attitude that is opposed to mandatory visors and glorifies violence.

Oh, word? You opinion must be fact. My mistake! HOW AWFULLY INGORANT OF ME TO OVERLOOK THIS.

Let me address your in-dept thesis here.

His suits are untouchable, I'm sorry. For lack of a better word, his swag is unbelieveable.

Your second point is true, and it is something I dislike about him, howeverm it has gotten better in the past 5-6 years. Not corrected, mind you, but better. Either he is learning tolerance, or is pretending...

I see his side of the arguement for visors though.... but that's neither here nor there. Mandatory visors isn't ruining the game. These are grown men, let them make their own decisions. 

Glorifies violence? Absolutely. Let me say you are in the severe minority of people who tune into hockey if you think fighting/cheap shots, ect aren't part of the game.


In the end, though, its your opinion, love or hate him... seems like there is no in-between. But please don't say he is an embarrassment to an entire country. That man has done more for kids causes then you or I ever will.
  

Damn, I cant believe I'm gonna type up a couple of paragraphs on Don Cherry now

...

The 'ugly suits' comment was obviously a joke. It does take a tremendous amount of swag to wear those hideous things

My main beef with Cherry is with his lack of tolerance for Europeans/French-Canadians. To him, they are soft, cheap shot artists and are inferior to good ol' Canadian boys. It's one thing to think that Canadian players are better than others, but he argues this by stereotyping and degrading other groups of players. This is honestly no different from racism. He has recently toned it down only because of the strong backlash against his controversial remarks a few years ago that almost got him fired.

My issue with his lack of support for visors is not that he doesn't support visors (its a matter of opinion) but that he makes it seem 'girly' and an actual health risk to wear them. A few years ago he said that only Euros wear visors (once again being prejudice) as if Europeans are pansies for trying to protect their eyes. I hope you realize that the same arguments he makes against visors were made back when helmets were not mandatory. Back then it was 'unmanly' to wear helmets and protect your brain and wearing helmets would be 'unsafe' because players would have less respect for each other and would not think twice about attempting checks directed at the head. Now decades later, the same weak arguments are being made against visors even though there really isn't a convincing argument against making them mandatory.

It's unfortunate that fighting is apart of hockey. It is already a great sport but the way its poorly marketed by the NHL means that they cant afford to outlaw fighting for fear of losing casual fans. To me, hockey is about speed, skill, nice passes, goals, defence, saves, team work, etc. I do not care to see 2 goons drop the gloves and swing at each other and then show off their gap-teeth to the crowd and spend 5-minutes in the penalty box adjusting their jock-straps and elbow pads.

I think you can agree with me here that the BEST and most entertaining hockey occurs during the NHL playoffs and during the Olympics. You rarely see fighting during the NHL playoffs and Olympics. Fighting is an un-necessary part of NHL and getting rid of it will make for a much better product. I found it ironic that the NHL tried to speed up the game by introducing rule changes after the lockout but were unwilling to take out fighting which usually adds unnecessary time onto the lengths of games. As for Cherry, he devouts way too much time to fighting and makes it seem acceptable. The man is extremely influential (watched by tons of Canadian kids) and he's basically sending the message that it is ok to fight when playing sports (even though fighting goes against the principals of sports).

Finally, I think your last point is weak. Because a man has made significant contributions to charity does not give him the right to make derogatory comments about other groups of people.

 

[bjm5295]

Not too sure what all this fighting is about... its pretty obvious Russia has straight dominated International play since the 60s..

Bottom line: Canada came out like crazed dogs. Russia came out like half asleep cats. They showed very little heart compared to Canada who were obviously steaming from the USA loss, and the better team on that day won.

 

[theprocessofbelief]

Carlos Tevez

I won't quote you, but you make several really good points.

I would side on sterotyping rather than straight up racism... but again, there is not much difference.

I have watched him pretty much every weekend from October to June for the better part of the last 20 years... so I have overlooked alot of the stupid stuff he has done.

The one thing about him is he speaks his mind, regardless of right or wrong. Because he is such an institution in Canada culture, alot of people take his word as law, though, which isn't anywhere close to true.




Anyway, if you want to start on Pierre McGuire, I'm game. I hate him more than anything I can think of right now.

 I have watched more than a handful of games on mute because of him.

 

[carlos tevez]

I like McGuire for the most part. He calls NHL games objectively and provides insight that is generally appreciated. Of course he can be annoying sometimes with his "MONSTER" crap and his constant yelling.

Jim Hughson is really good. Gord Miller is good.

I used to like Bob Cole but he hasn't been good in years. He usually has trouble identifying the correct players and tends to state the obvious...i.e. it's a 2-2 game with 3 mins to go and he'll say something like "The next goal will likely win the game!".

 

[addictedtofreshkicks]

You can say what you want about Pierre McGuire, but the man definitely knows his stuff.

 

[dmxfury]

I miss Gary Thorne doing broadcasts, he always got me pumped up in the playoffs. Anyone watching the women's game?

 

[theprocessofbelief]

You can say what you want about Pierre McGuire, but the man definitely knows his stuff.
  No one questions this. I am pretty sure between he and Steve Kouleas, they know every single thing about every player ever.

I'll use this visual aide, rather than going into a swear word laced tyraid.