Had A Chance To Listen To A Panel Of Native Americans Speak

[sevit86]

good looks with the post, sad how quickly people forget about the atrocities of the past

 

[wr]

It was very common to a ship full of prisoners working off debts for freedom or as escape from society. You had islands that were prison colonies. Alt of early settler inc luding the founding fathers of this country were considered criminals . This was considered criminals the new world back then you know. Manifest destiny,starting over with a clean slate and the chance to be rich without paying high taxes and tributes to their lord . It is a fact that alt of settlers and pirates were here to escape the old world and their old lives .

 

[wanksta23]

my cousin is half

 

[humble pedant]

I'm actually taking a Native American course right now. Most of the discourse about Native Americans in contemporary media, education, etc. are all skewed towards to glorification of the United States. Terms such as "manifest destiny" and "how the west was 'WON'" are all words that describe how we view the Native Americans. I've read a couple books about Native Americans pertaining to their innovation and population size. Many people don't realize that the indigenous people in South America had more people than Great Britain before the 1500s. Many anthropologist posit that they had millions of people living in South America and they were highly advanced. Some common misconceptions of Native Americans are: They were nomadic, they lived in a pre-eden continent that was unused, they were barbaric, they didn't have a governmental system, they were heathens etc. All of them are untrue. They only nomadic tribes were the mid-west tribes for the most part because they had to follow the buffalo herd for food. There were millions of Native Americans who had small plot-like farms where they grew corn so the land was being used for thousands of years. They weren't barbaric and allowed other tribes to believe in their own religions (religious tolerance.) They also  had a type of government where the woman was granted high powers. It is amazing what we can actually learn from their culture. The Native American people believed that everyone could live together and believe what they wanted to believe; that every tribe had a different reality and that the Great Spirit made it that way. They also treated everyone with respect including nature.  

 

[joe cool23]

Interesting thread so far.

 

[tkthafm]

Originally Posted by jbone2308

More threads like these need to exist on NT.

My whole thing about history is the "his-story." As someone said biases and motives throw arguments out.

Dude not even giving it a chance of being true that we had some folk over here before Columbus.

It's almost like he feels it will change the world now lol.

This is completely wrong.

I would have absolutely no problem with someone saying: "Hey, I read some interesting theory about the Olmecs actually being Africans. It isn't supported by any evidence though."

My problem is with the psuedo-historians who come in, and feel the need to "drop knowledge" like the rubbish they are quoting is undeniable FACT that didn't come out of some blog/poorly written speculative book that has been refuted multiple times. Worse is, everyone suddenly jumps on it and hails it as fact just because it sounds nice. You remind them that the VAST majority of scholars completely reject this theory as myth and you get called a racist 

I guess my problem at the end of the day has nothing to do with Olmecs/Africans, but rather the larger issue of people trying wayy too hard to sound intelligent.

 

[wisepharoah]

Went to a authentic pow wow in the desert a few weeks back. It was amazing. We flew to worlds outside "perception" that are only reached through "reflection" and inflection". The sounds of the other world man........ we don't have the instruments that could duplicate the sounds of heaven.

 

[wr]

Thanks for admitting your bias. That is exactly why so many people cannot discuss with you

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Originally Posted by jbone2308

More threads like these need to exist on NT.

My whole thing about history is the "his-story." As someone said biases and motives throw arguments out.

Dude not even giving it a chance of being true that we had some folk over here before Columbus.

It's almost like he feels it will change the world now lol.

This is completely wrong.

I would have absolutely no problem with someone saying: "Hey, I read some interesting theory about the Olmecs actually being Africans. It isn't supported by any evidence though."

My problem is with the psuedo-historians who come in, and feel the need to "drop knowledge" like the rubbish they are quoting is undeniable FACT that didn't come out of some blog/poorly written speculative book that has been refuted multiple times. Worse is, everyone suddenly jumps on it and hails it as fact just because it sounds nice. You remind them that the VAST majority of scholars completely reject this theory as myth and you get called a racist 

I guess my problem at the end of the day has nothing to do with Olmecs/Africans, but rather the larger issue of people trying wayy too hard to sound intelligent.

Did you actually check out the sites YOU were quoting? 
I mean seriously. 

 

[dr damon]

interesting topic, i have seen and read some interesting things about non europeans arriving prior to colombus, from asia, africa and possibly australia.
I once read something about cacao being found in some of the tombs of the ancient egyptians. Cacao is indigenious to the americas. how would it get to ancient egypt other than trade, exploration?
I think as a whole, ancient civilizations were ALOT more advanced than we give them credit for which is why modern scientists cannot explain how some of the ancient structures were built, with allignments to celestial events or constellations in the sky with such precise craftmanship/ advanced physics/mathematics which makes me think that they obviously had some kind of knowledge and understanding of the science that we have yet to discover.  no aliens needed. 

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by WISEPHAROAH

Went to a authentic pow wow in the desert a few weeks back. It was amazing. We flew to worlds outside "perception" that are only reached through "reflection" and inflection". The sounds of the other world man........ we don't have the instruments that could duplicate the sounds of heaven.

Please speak more on this. You kind of lost me Sorry.

You still high man

 

[polorico]

all my people who have struggled 

 

[mrgrapes85]

I'm Alaskan Native

if that really means anything, there's not a whole lot of nowadays


Tlingit and Haida tribes from the southeast alaskan islands.

 

[tokes99]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Today I was blessed to be able to sit in on a roundtable discussion of 3 Native Americans from the Chesapeake Area (DC, MD, VA).

They mentioned that their families have been in this area for a long, long, long, long, long time. Before any of our ancestors even thought of "discovering" anything.

He spoke about Columbus and how his family were outcasts and were exiled from Spain. He also told us that the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria were filled with rapist, theives, killers, and child molesters, so just imagine all of those sick individuals coming over here to wreck havoc.

They mentioned how there was already African presence in America way before Euros set foot on these grounds. That is where Native and African blood mixed. They talked about how Africans and Indians exchanged ideas, love, and goods with one another. Never really an issue there.

The Natives were living at peace with EARTH and then YT came and just destroyed everything that they knew. Brought diseases that the Natives have never encountered as well as sick animals that the natives had never encountered.

They spoke about how offensive the name of the Washington Football team is and how a large group of Natives marched to Fed-Ex field like 10 years ago and had a prayer service and proceeded to curse the franchise. He was dead serious and by the looks of things, why shouldn't I believe him.

. But he was basically saying that the term is basically like saying the N-Word.

How the term ******* came about. When hunters were doing their seasonal missions, they would get paid to bring back certain animals. But there was a bonus in there. If they were to spot any Natives, they were told to kill them, skin their faces, and "Bring back a piece of that Red Skin."

They mentioned how they weren't salty about Thanksgiving at all. It was something that they in fact practiced. I think they said they called it the Great Harvest (pen ran out while taking notes). But they used this time of the year to celebrate the harvest that they had accumulated during the past season. They simply stressed being thankful for everything that is in your life, especially your family.

I spoke with 2 of the individuals "off the record" and we spoke about:

1. Injustices. We talked about how this world is full of cowards that don't stand up for what is right and just allow negative things to happen right in front of their faces. He told me to make sure I am not a coward and to speak up for what is right even if I am the only one speaking. I promised him that I will play my part.

2. Spirituality. One of them mentioned to me how religion is a joke and how it was only created to control the people and manipulate the economy. He says the Vatican and Wall Street are essentially one in the same and should not be trusted by any intelligent thinking human. He then mentioned how there is a history long battle about who has the better god. Is it the Christians or the Muslims and how people need to wake up and see that it is nothing but a distraction from the things that really matter. Just a tool to further separate humans.

They believe in the Great Spirit. It is more of a spiritually based believe system. No religion. He says when YT came along, they brought they control tool called religion, even though Africans and Native Americans were already in tune with the big man upstairs.

It was a good lecture, there is a radio show that talks about the struggle of the Native People. When I recall the link, I will send it your way.

did not know the origin of the term "*******" though i new it was seen as derogatory, definitely can see why the pro football team's name in dc would be an issue...

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Originally Posted by jbone2308

More threads like these need to exist on NT.



My whole thing about history is the "his-story." As someone said biases and motives throw arguments out.



Dude not even giving it a chance of being true that we had some folk over here before Columbus.



It's almost like he feels it will change the world now lol.

This is completely wrong.

I would have absolutely no problem with someone saying: "Hey, I read some interesting theory about the Olmecs actually being Africans. It isn't supported by any evidence though."

My problem is with the psuedo-historians who come in, and feel the need to "drop knowledge" like the rubbish they are quoting is undeniable FACT that didn't come out of some blog/poorly written speculative book that has been refuted multiple times. Worse is, everyone suddenly jumps on it and hails it as fact just because it sounds nice. You remind them that the VAST majority of scholars completely reject this theory as myth and you get called a racist 

I guess my problem at the end of the day has nothing to do with Olmecs/Africans, but rather the larger issue of people trying wayy too hard to sound intelligent.

this.

i'm with you, it seems quite obvious that these notions about the African contact/influence are speculative/theories at best...how many african scholars are in tune with such theories? how is it that people that have spent their lives studying either people, do not think it true? seems to me such a thing would exist in the oral histories of both african & native peoples of the americas, if not in the hieroglyphs & writings themselves? this isn't to say it didn't happen (because many times the truth is stranger than fiction), but c'mon son, there has to be more than the boasts of a king to an audience and anecdotal tales...there is a difference between saying something COULD BE true and something IS FACTUALLY true...i wonder if there have been any genealogical studies to this end?

i have always found it interesting that any african americans would be willing believe these unfounded links to other cultures and co-opt other 's ancient/past cultures (especially seeing how so much of african american culture in recent times has been co-opted; blues, hip-hop, jazz, rock n roll). african-americans are no more descended from egyptian kings & queens and/or moors than your average central or western african...just because they share a continent is not an automatic link to culture or lineage to a people (no one in west africa, the dr of congo, and/or central africa talks of being descendants of those cultures!) claiming cultures that do not claim them back...the peculiar institution, slavery, took culture, history, identity, & perspective away from african americans; and the attempts to find those things has led to some clinging to things like this...

that is why i cringe when people (as someone mention earlier ) compare the struggles of the african american in slavery to the struggles of native americans to survive colonialism in a new world that did not see a place for them. it is such a simplistic way to look at it, it ignores the nuances of both conditions; they are 2 entirely different things, with different affects to each group.

 

[hugo]

Thats so dope dude

 

[wr]

Why can't we question stuff? . I mean the people responsible for telling us everything we know about history say pizza is a vegetable.. Tried to say the same about ketchup . Its our duty to discuss other ideas . Quite simply , when a source is proven as faulty time and time and again. It losses credibility . Y'all won't even give the alternative just consideration enough to even test out theories and claims you disagree with you. You just have a bias because the information is favorable to people of color . You won't even take the time to even see that most of what you think is black ppl trying to make each other feel better and pseudo science is actually coming from white scholars . You make your self appear to have a racial bias with this fake intellectual resistance to anything outside of white academia .

 

[al audi]

With the Casinos in CT its not hard to meet/talk to real indians. Some of them cats is wild don't sleep. Blow Money Fast, I know an ex stripper who basically used dude.

 

[omarsok]

posting for later....

i am 100% full blown Mayan...i resemble Nas tho

::thread topic mastered::

 

[tokes99]

Originally Posted by Wr

Why can't we question stuff? . I mean the people responsible for telling us everything we know about history say pizza is a vegetable.. Tried to say the same about ketchup . Its our duty to discuss other ideas . Quite simply , when a source is proven as faulty time and time and again. It losses credibility . Y'all won't even give the alternative just consideration enough to even test out theories and claims you disagree with you. You just have a bias because the information is favorable to people of color . You won't even take the time to even see that most of what you think is black ppl trying to make each other feel better and pseudo science is actually coming from white scholars . You make your self appear to have a racial bias with this fake intellectual resistance to anything outside of white academia .

word, i hear you, we should question everything...but why doesn't that skepticism also apply to these theories? of course, people should be aware that history can bent or outright dismissed by those with power and hopefully, as more people tell their own stories (that are linked/investigated by academic/scientific research) the true picture becomes clearer. for me the issue is not whether the history as we know it true (we know that history has never been static), but with these theories being represented as more than that at this point. for example, i may not necessarily believe in words Jesus or Muhammad as "truth from God" but the is little doubt to their existence as real historical persons because it was documented both in oral histories and documents, from multiple sources...and as more information is refuted/uncovered those histories will likely change as well

 

[elcerrito91]

Jerome in the House wrote:

I see and speak to native americans all of the time. Never get a chance to ask any questions that I would love to have answered. Which is why I would love to just listen to a pro native american speaker or something.
It was a blessing man. Ask question, learn about their struggle, hear their side of the story man. I think in honor of them I will learn to make Native dishes next year for Thanksgiving. It was a great experience indeed.


NikeTalker23 wrote:

You're going to get the extreme sides of the story from the Native Americans and history books, just opposite sides of the spectrums, so you have to take what they say with a grain of salt.
Honestly, I wasn't there so I would never know the truth. That is with any form of history. But my heart leads me to believe in the favor of those that were the oppressed more so than the side that did the oppressing. Yes people exaggerate and that is taken into consideration.[/quote]

I'd still take what they said with a grain of salt....exaggeration is very easy to get away with when there is little record of what actually happened.[/quote]

 

[toliveanddieinnj]

These guys enlightened you to the Holy War going on for millenia, of Christianity vs Islam? Lol, you need to get out more dude. Nothing you posted is earth shattering news. Wikipedia the Crusades. I also highly doubt Africans made their way here. While West Africans could ride the current across the Atlantic, I've never seen evidence of them having ocean fairing ships. Unlike the Vikings who def found the "New World" way before Columbus. I just did a google search of: Africans discover new world. And the results are really reaching. Also, we all know religion was government before government. There's nobody in the sky caring if you eat meat on fridays during lent, or mix your meat and dairy during chaunakah. No man worried about covering your skin just because your female who'll give the males of your society virgins at death. Come on now.

 

[stlsnikesquad]

I saw a documentary on netfilx the other day about native american history in movies, that kinda touches on certain racial sterotypes, i think its called Reel Injun

 

[sooperhooper]

If you ever get a chance, read Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee. It's one of my favorite books of all time.

Also, I used to go see lots of people lecture. Paticularly, a lot of Native American speakers. There was one lecture that stands out in paticular. It was years ago & held by two people, Chief Ernest Wesley and the author of Dances With Wolves (novel & screen play) Michael Blake.

Just bought this book, I heard it's very sad and graphic. I'm certain that it's gonna change me.
This seemed like a good thread so I figured it was worth a bump.