Grey market discussion thread (Let's keep the discussion mature) Rules on pg 1 please read before yo

[jyung101]

@joey because we that your referring to are also intrigued on a lot of things being posted in this thread as well as site wide.

I'm interested if its true or myth and so far I've heard hearsay and assumptions. I don't care to be proven wrong nor right I just want to get ACCURATE information because if all is true...hell I can add another option to purchase menu if not then ill be fine going the methods I've been going through trusted members here and retail stores.

I'm not here to bad mouth anybody or anything I'm curious but I'm not naive either and like I've said I've seen little to nothing that credits these facts other then speculations and opinions. Not saying its not true just haven't seen anything IMO that says these statements accurate. Look at the past pictures and post of complains and you tell me why shouldn't I still be on the fence? Lets get 1 page of rave reviews and ill start considering these ideas having a strong possibility of truth.

 

[advan24r]

Does anyone know how many factories Nike has in China?  

 

[jordan23dotcom]

The guys who are defending the "grey market" aka fakes post proof of what you're throwing out there. A pic, a person who works at the sweat shops testimonial, a letter from nike saying yes they're real, something. You claim people who call them fake are just being posting opinion..... Well, post your facts


I've heard all this "they're the same thing" talk from guys selling bootlegs at DC gas stations a long time ago

 

[jyung101]

We've already asked for that and nothing. But there defense will be they look the same or where's the proof there not made in the same factory. Nothing's ever been documented......

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

The guys who are defending the "grey market" aka fakes post proof of what you're throwing out there. A pic, a person who works at the sweat shops testimonial, a letter from nike saying yes they're real, something. You claim people who call them fake are just being posting opinion..... Well, post your facts


I've heard all this "they're the same thing" talk from guys selling bootlegs at DC gas stations a long time ago

The burden of proof also lies with you buddy. Prove that theyre not made from the same materials, in the same factories, by the same people. Show me a video of a nike official holding a gm pair in one hand and retail pair in the other saying "These are not the same".

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

We've already asked for that and nothing. But there defense will be they look the same or where's the proof there not made in the same factory. Nothing's ever been documented......

bingo. thing is, people who the NT community (admin and mods alike) regard as reliable and connected have posted tons of info, that you guys are choosing to ignore. I dont own any GM pairs but i dont see any problem with them

 

[jordan23dotcom]

The burden of proof also lies with you buddy. Prove that theyre not made from the same materials, in the same factories, by the same people. Show me a video of a nike official holding a gm pair in one hand and retail pair in the other saying "These are not the same".

Ok, the sellers list them as "grey market" replicas, has flaws, shape is completely wrong, colors come out wrong, not sold in nike stores, sold out of a mans backseat in backwoods china, barcodes are wrong, insoles are the wrong size, box is wrong, some don't come with all the "extras" , nike doesn't "ok", materials can be wrong........ Am I missing something here?

 

[vood99]

Can we stop with the same factory bs ..no one has proof soo stop... shape different soles etc. ...it's been proven over and over that there not the same as rd pairs ... Grown men consigning copping bootleg shoes smfh

Everything in this post is true 'cept for the part about 'Grown men co-signing copping bootleg shoes'. There are little to no grown men in the JB forum, just kids!

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Ok, the sellers list them as "grey market" replicas, has flaws, shape is completely wrong, colors come out wrong, not sold in nike stores, sold out of a mans backseat in backwoods china, barcodes are wrong, insoles are the wrong size, box is wrong, some don't come with all the "extras" , nike doesn't "ok", materials can be wrong........ Am I missing something here?

Nope hit the nail right on the head. 

 

[vood99]

If you're buying shoes and you don't know if they're legit or not then DON'T. The fact if the matter is JB shoes are already a joke to begin with quality wise. In 2000 fakes stuck out big time but nowadays the are just too similar. And for y'all justifying "grey market" shoes, have at them. I won't

JB retro product has become so low in quality that fakes have only had to become marginally better in order to match 'authentic' quality. So in essence, regardless of whether you buy on Nike.com, eBay or TaoBao you're buying an 'authentic fake'.

 

[puffin85]

Can we stop with the same factory bs ..no one has proof soo stop... shape different soles etc. ...it's been proven over and over that there not the same as rd pairs ... Grown men consigning copping bootleg shoes smfh

Repped, You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink

 

[gry60]

If you want proof that Nike GM pairs are made in the same factories as authorized shoes, YOU WON'T GET IT BECAUSE NIKE HAS CHOSEN TO NOT PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGE THE ISSUE.

I repeat, YOU WON'T GET IT BECAUSE NIKE HAS CHOSEN TO NOT PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGE THE ISSUE.

However, there are news articles from reputable organizations that describe how other clothing and footwear brands have faced the same challenges that Nike is facing with regard to counterfeiting.

I posted many pages back an article about New Balance taking a Chinese manufacturer to court because he was willingly producing more shoes than the number ordered by NB, which he made money off of by flooding the local market.

The same article mentioned how TJ Maxx received and sold clothing that turned out to be factory overruns that were unauthorized by the brand that placed the order.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/05/01/8375455/

http://cf.rims.org/Magazine/PrintTemplate.cfm?AID=3376

Given these verifiable facts, why would you doubt the possibility that your non-retail Jordans could be factory overruns?

It also helps to realize that when it comes to manufacturing countries (especially China), IP protection is not given the same consideration as in the USA. The article above touches on that issue by looking at how the Chinese courts stalled NB's case against their producer while he selling directly shoes that weren't supposed to be produced in the first place.

 

[jordan23dotcom]

So the proof is that there is no proof, gotcha. On a side not I really do t care what people want to call "fake" and what they don't. I wouldn't buy grey market gucci bags nor would I buy grey market nikes

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

http://niketalk.com/t/321285/early-jordan-release-info-its-time-everyone-knows/120

posted by rockdeep aka nikedealer. This guy is known for being connected and plugged in. This is why i view GM shoes the way I do. Do what you want with this info

I HAD to chuckle when I read the thread starters proclamation of Nike selling B Grades to websites.

I made a LONG post I cant find to reference but it made reference to fakes, and "extra's" leaving from the factories of Nike.

1. There is a HUGE difference between fakes and illegally sold Nikes.

Fakes are made from Fabricated materials OUTSIDE of a Nike website.  There are several grades of Fakes.  People need to get out of the idea that MOLDS are stolen and they are made that way.  A mold is what Nike takes of feet to get an idea of an exact shoe size for their players.

People within Factories are getting ahold of Technical Packages called Tech Packs which are sent from Nike Product Line Managers/ Engineers to their counterpart in different factories.  These files are not encrypted (which is completely possible)

From there the same process used to create a REAL Nike shoe is replicated either in a make shift factory or even at factories AFTER HOURS.  How do I know all this?  From doing ALOT of research when I ran a site called FakePolice.com years ago and working with a few folks within Nike to get a gauge of how the process works and where the failures are in the process.

I proposed a procedure which could save Nike literally BILLIONS in Lost revenue but these things fell on deaf ears, as CWK will attest many folks within the walls hate being told from someone OUTSIDE of NIKE how to FIX something WITHING Nike.

Smaller steps were taken to prevent this as ebay has significantly cut down on the amount of fakes sold on their site due to suits Nike threatened to make.

Next. Many sites get their shoes from actual factory workers who have the access to literally lift a crap load of shoes out in its OFF HOURS.  To be clear.. and this is known by some but realized by many others, that fakes are not  a HUGE terrorist  support mechanism but it IS a huge part of the Asian Mafia. 

Fake Nation has their own set of Designers. Their own set of Product Line Engineers making sure the shoes they produce fit the tooling they make.  Hence the hideous and sometimes intriguing Hybrids and Mash ups you see.

They watch this and other Sneaker Websites to see what it is YOU clamor for that Nike is not producing and make it readily available.  Cole Haans.. Reeboks.. EVERY shoe is replicated.. just not as much as Nike.

Their are other grades of fakes that are done in basements from folks who just do what they can with what they have.

I mean has anyone ever asked the question: Is everyone in Asia BORN with the ability to produce sneakers?  I mean come on.  The same folks IN the legal factories and I say legal when OPEN for business are the same folks working after hours.  This isnt a skill you are born with and THIS and THIS alone is how you can see the difference in the quality of fakes.

For a time their were Jordan XI Concords which were produced in fake nation and still are which NEVER yellowed compared to the REAL Jordans which did. There was a time when Foamposite was made of a HARD sturdy yet malleable material which would eventually fit snug around your foot.  Then Fake nation started producing a softer HORRID version of the Lebron IV which had Foamposite material.

Soon you had Nike making the Foam Lites. Coincidence?

 Listen. There are soooo many layers to this I could write a book.  But to think Nike would SELL their B Grades and NOT stamp them to unknown websites who will sell them early is the MOST absurd crap ever written.

For those asking about why Nike wont shut down certain websites, its because they dont put money into their IP (Intellectual Property) Lawyers . Reebok/Adidas and even New Balance put a large portion of money into keeping sites and factories from producing or selling fake items.  Dolce & Gabanna, Coach and other Industry outlets do the same.

This is something huge that Nike has shown minimal interest in stopping.  As I said before. if Nike isn't interested in doing more.. why should I care?  Instead they want to bust barbershop dudes trying to hustle to make ends meet?  Yeah its not right..... but just like busting drug dealers... they replace them with new runners.

When a site is taken down.. 5 more pop up.  When you sue or bust someone at the flee market or barbershop plenty more will arise selling product.  The means to stop it where it stops.. RIGHT in their building is the problem.

I mean I'll take it a step further... there were dudes selling REAL Nike Product to underground sellers on the PE Market... and all they did at first after a long time was move dude who was doing it to another section of Nike and the dude who let them know about it was fired. lololol.

Im still loyal to my boys who work there so when it comes to making your purchases... yes.. be cautious... but when it comes to Randy.. I guess alot of people forget Air - Randy aka Promo Shoes.. aka Kitty Pig used to all be the same person.....aka Dennis. 

Dennis has ALOT of connections in Asia.. ALOT.  He has the means to ALOT of resources as well.   I'll leave it at that cause Im not one to knock the next mans hustle either..but I'll say this.. at least the shoes he's selling has the EXACT same materials and workers that Nike has....... You do the math...

If Randy were smart...he'd open back up his site.. lower his prices and make a killing because buying early's cool.... but threads like that will make everyone leary of doing it now.

Gain that trust back and go from there.  I dont promote fakes... but I'll never hate on Marquee Sole, or other sites like it because they are hustling just like us here in the states...

But haters gon hate.  Just ask your boy Shaike

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

and heres another excerpt from nikedealer

You guys have to realize shoes are different from Factory to Factory. As far as construction differences.. but they are so slight its hardly noticeable.

There is alot of legitamacy to what Ninjahood says.. I suppose most glossed over my long as discertation lolol because it had no pics.... but when it comes from the factory.. and is made with the same materials...

Its real. Just because the midsole feels different and the air bag is flat makes it something quality control catches and pitches.

Hasn't anyone ever heard folks complain their Zoom bags have bottomed out? Well thats because of faulty air bags.

Am I saying AR has great business practices? Not at all... but he has access to resources NO OTHER sites have... to produce alot of stuff.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

im just going to keep going here....

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by riceeeeeeeeee

If it doesn't come from a authorized dealer its fake to me.

you know how many thousands of mom & pop shows in NYC alone have NO access to a authorized Merchant license to sell nikes?  That doesnt mean they dont sell real kicks..that broad assertion Is asinine. Im defending da sites because if they're made identical to pairs released in Footlocker/Eastbay/etc. JUST like da video said then there is no case that these are fake...I've worked in shoe stores for damn near A decade, ya really think every production size 9 all look da same? 

 Folks these are SNEAKERS, not coins or things that come out of a CNC machine. Ive sold Jordans in modells where I worked years ago with upside down logos, missing Logos, wrong leather (smooth one foot, wrinkled another foot) da bottomline is these kicks Are for athletic use, da more & more da nerd stamp collecting mentality bears down With their magnifying glasses on sneakers, da more & more ya gonna find isssh on authorized & unauthorized/promo Sample, w/e. Fake are things that NOT genuine, if these are MADE with genuine materials, no matter HOW illicit they were obtained then Iy puts em in da realm of real. All that other "well nike this, jordan brand that" is all subjective, and none of those stories are Concrete. What IS concrete is what's in front of you, which are kicks, and based on what's been shown no matter how Hard you want to, you can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are fake. Grey market ia a WAAY more accurate title for these, it better addresses da situation. To label these with Da same brush u label liquor store fake jordans worth sponge bob on em is doing everyone who's still Confused with da situation what's goin on.

Please keep reading the BOLD  part over and over.

I'll to this that if you have been in the sneaker world any part of 10 years... you'd know that MOST fake and I mean FAKE sneakers made OUT of Factories with poo poo materials NEVER had Air bags but extra phylon or Styrofoam .. When you see pairs of illegally obtained Nikes with Aribags attached to insoles and chopped up kicks WITH airbags.. they are either lifted factory pairs or pairs which didnt pass inspection.

In AiR Randys case... as I mentioned dude has the resources others dont to make up just about whatever he wants.

I will also state again.. this is something Nike can crack down on but chooses not to unless its for dexterity sake to show their Asian govt they want to cease some factories from illegal production. However a new factory is created and the process starts all over again.

Again.  There are no molds guys..  NONE. Its a bit more sophisticated than that now.

 

[jyung101]

That article did nothing but prove what I was saying earlier on.....once again air randy has been the only proven dealer of GM shoes....this kinstor and rstor some fuggazi joints. I think GM does exist but the scale you guys like to put it on is marginal at best. Quality shouldn't very to the point of miss printed boxes and wrong tags etc......

 

[PRIME]

The sooner everyone figures out it's a matter of personal opinion and no amount of debate or argument will change the majority of other people's personal views, then the sooner this thread can actually be productive and informative.

And honestly...

If you don't buy/sell/wear/own or are interested in doing so, then why are you even posting, reading or following this thread?

It's either because you are intrigued and you wanna find out about GM shoes and see if it's something you would invest your money in, or you just wanna argue and push your opinion and beliefs on other people. I'm intrigued, that's why I'm here. I wanna find out about them. But if you have no plans on ever buying or wearing them I don't understand why you follow the thread or waste your energy posting. Some people have been posting in here for months, I see the same guys all the time saying how GM's are fake and they would never wear them and so on. Have you asked yourself what brought you in here, and what keeps you reading every page? Makes no sense.

I'm not saying you don't have the right to post here or you shouldn't be posting here, because that's what the forums are here for and everyone should he welcomed to post what they think or feel and I also think any good amount of debate is healthy, but at this point it's redundant if you've read any of the previous pages of the thread, this is a never ending debate that has no clear answer or definition. It's about as pointless as debating religion or politics.

Fools want to come in and bash the shoes when in reality, they can just keep it moving.

They have nothing better to do, they think they will sway people opinions when in reality, they are just wasting their time.

If we want to know more about GM and buy GM, then we will, point blank. Some people getting worked up because THEY chose to enter this thread.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

That article did nothing but prove what I was saying earlier on.....once again air randy has been the only proven dealer of GM shoes....this kinstor and rstor some fuggazi joints. I think GM does exist but the scale you guys like to put it on is marginal at best. Quality shouldn't very to the point of miss printed boxes and wrong tags etc......

this was from 2 years ago, and the first mention of GM shoes on NT comes up as early as 2008. To think that Air Randy is the only one capable of this is and the only one profiting by now is just plain ridiculous. And thats the thing Taobao is full of high quality fakes. Its shady business. just a couple pages back someone posted a picture of a pair their agent sent them from kinstor or rstor or some other taobao store and someone else who ordered from the same place said the pics he posted  was not the same as the pair he got from the same seller. Idk whats going on in that situation but i think its important to note that GM shoes and high quality fakes arent the same. And thats where my problem lies, people equating GM shoes with high quality fakes. cause theyre not. there are just as many people on youtube and all over forums on the internet praising the quality of their pairs as people saying their pairs are crap.

 

[joeyd12]

@joey because we that your referring to are also intrigued on a lot of things being posted in this thread as well as site wide.

I'm interested if its true or myth and so far I've heard hearsay and assumptions. I don't care to be proven wrong nor right I just want to get ACCURATE information because if all is true...hell I can add another option to purchase menu if not then ill be fine going the methods I've been going through trusted members here and retail stores.

I'm not here to bad mouth anybody or anything I'm curious but I'm not naive either and like I've said I've seen little to nothing that credits these facts other then speculations and opinions. Not saying its not true just haven't seen anything IMO that says these statements accurate. Look at the past pictures and post of complains and you tell me why shouldn't I still be on the fence? Lets get 1 page of rave reviews and ill start considering these ideas having a strong possibility of truth.

There have been photos posted and there have been positive and negative testimonials. It's the same with shoes from NDC today, some people get bad pairs and flaws. Your asking for something from the grey market that your never gonna get, your asking for a guarantee and a promise of perfect quality, well that's the trade off. Your paying a considerably lower price in risking that you might get a small flaw or something not the exact same like "extras" paper, hang tags, boxes etc. You guys are expecting an illegal enterprise to give you some type of assurance, well keep waiting cus your not gonna get it. Your safety net comes with purchasing with an agent, so you can see the shoes and if when you get them something is wrong, you file with Paypal and get your money back AND keep the shoes. Honestly plenty of GM shoes are indistinguishable from the RD pairs you get in footlocker. It's been posted here many times and you can clearly see reviews of GM shoes on YouTube and you can't tell the difference (even though some people claim they can) If you read the entire thread you would have seen those posts. People even recently posted detailed photos of GM shoes recently to challenge peoples legit check on them and all the deniers had no idea what to say, they couldn't legit tell the difference and were left guessing, I mean how close do you want them to be? It's been posted also about how release day pairs are different sizes, shapes, heights, colors... I have two bred 11's that are blatantly different when put side by side.

In buying GM shoes your choosing to take a risk as well as giving up the mentality that just because something is not "Nike authorized" it's fake. It's all about PERSONAL OPINION and it always will be. If you know the shoes are GM and when you wear them nobody else can tell the difference and you can't see any difference between them and RD pairs saving that $200 or more starts to seem like a real good decision I would imagine.

Plus have you guys boughten off eBay or Craigslist? any one of those shoes could have been purchased from a GM sneaker seller and you would never know the difference but you would be happy as could be paying $200 more for some GM shoes.

It's a conscious decision to let go of some "morals" or reservations held by the sneaker community and save yourself $100-200.

If they are indistinguishable and the buyer is happy with them, that's all that matters.

GM and Fake sneakers have the stigma they do because the quality has been so horrible in the past and people try to pass them off or sell them as authentic to rip people off. So in turn, the sneaker culture attached this stigma to anything that is considered "not legit". The majority of the stigma isn't even about most people's personal beliefs or opinions, it's about what other people think about what they have on their feet.

You can't call GM sneakers real or legit, but you can't call them fake either because MOST PAIRS and models are so close to the authorized Nike pairs that nobody can tell the difference.

You really wanna find out? Buy a pair through an agent and have your own experience. You can always just claim them fake with Paypal and get your money back, then sell the shoe as GM for $150 or keep it and beat the living hell out of them.

if you really go back and read through the posts 80% of the people that have purchased GM shoes are happy with them, probably more than 80% I honestly haven't seen many people posting on here about how awful their GM pair was and how they would never buy another again... I can't recall one person actually.

your trading off saving money for not having that assurance that purchasing RD pairs gives you, idk what more else there is to say... lol

 

[ScroogeMcBuckz]

Don't even trip, just went thru the last couple of pages and the dudes up on their soapboxes have a bunch of overpriced listings go figure. We get it, you want to protect your "investments" so the value on your precious trading cards, I mean sneakers, don't diminish.

 

[jyung101]

If its the same thing why would I need to have a safety net? Going through agents filing complaints.....I mean if somebody wants them that bad go for it but I'd just rather not have to purchase an item or purchase an item through a vendor that's suspect.....150 or not

But it's all personal opinion

Anybody who spent there money of course is some what satisfied because they knew ahead of time what gamble they were taking so there's only so much they can whine about.....it's only when they post up these pics when it's found their purchase was a bad one....then they always quick to say well " I like them" and that's fine but that's far beyond the point

Of course I'm expecting the GM pairs to be identical all the way down to the font on the box since these are the same factories.......you can't use the same font? Same paper? The way I see it is if your faking one part what else is being faked or skipped over.

So if buying retail not only seems more legit it seems like a smarter overall move but once again if you don't mind taking the risk take it....but don't go passing misinformation on as facts until its proven fact.

Anybody can type a good story but nobody can prove their theory but if we have had to go on past events people saying they are fake are more credible then ones saying they aren't.

 

[joeyd12]

Don't even trip, just went thru the last couple of pages and the dudes up on their soapboxes have a bunch of overpriced listings go figure. We get it, you want to protect your "investments" so the value on your precious trading cards, I mean sneakers, don't diminish.

I mean ultimately that's the only people GM shoes are really hurting. Most people that buy GM wear them and beat them. People don't deadstock them. I mean there is always the risk of them being sold for profit and listed as legit, but plenty of websites do that already and people swear they are 100% authentic. Sole-Up is early release and they sell kicks for $300-$450 or more, and people happily pay it... Idk man, I choose to view things differently I guess. I don't owe Jordan Brand any loyalty, they don't give a **** about me. If the shoes are indistinguishable, I don't give a ****.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

If its the same thing why would I need to have a safety net? Going through agents filing complaints.....I mean if somebody wants them that bad go for it but I'd just rather not have to purchase an item or purchase an item through a vendor that's suspect.....150 or not

But it's all personal opinion

Anybody who spent there money of course is some what satisfied because they knew ahead of time what gamble they were taking so there's only so much they can whine about.....it's only when they post up these pics when it's found their purchase was a bad one....then they always quick to say well " I like them" and that's fine but that's far beyond the point

Of course I'm expecting the GM pairs to be identical all the way down to the font on the box since these are the same factories.......you can't use the same font? Same paper? The way I see it is if your faking one part what else is being faked or skipped over.

So if buying retail not only seems more legit it seems like a smarter overall move but once again if you don't mind taking the risk take it....but don't go passing misinformation on as facts until its proven fact.

Anybody can type a good story but nobody can prove their theory but if we have had to go on past events people saying they are fake are more credible then ones saying they aren't.

Nikedealer worked with nike, and is saying they arent fake. and then goes into detail about how fakes are made in comparison. people who havent even clamed to be in any way associated with nike are just saying the shoes are fake. where is the credibility in that. I cant speak from nikes perspective but i can speak from a manufacturing perspective FROM EXPERIENCE. Its long been stated theres always been a risk dont take it if youre not willing to. But people keeping coming on here and throwing around fakes when a true GM pair is not.

 

[jyung101]

Nikedealer worked with nike, and is saying they arent fake. and then goes into detail about how fakes are made in comparison. people who havent even clamed to be in any way associated with nike are just saying the shoes are fake. where is the credibility in that. I cant speak from nikes perspective but i can speak from a manufacturing perspective FROM EXPERIENCE. Its long been stated theres always been a risk dont take it if youre not willing to. But people keeping coming on here and throwing around fakes when a true GM pair is not.

Am I saying AR has great business practices? Not at all... but he has access to resources NO OTHER sites have... to produce alot of stuff. actually that's exactly what he saying except air randy.....since your going to follow his every word make sure you follow that.....only site he's co-signed is that one. So dissect another one of his comments...