Former Christians: What Made You a Skeptic?

[bboy1827]

Originally Posted by Korto

Originally Posted by bboy1827

Jesus wasn't unique though that is the thing. The bible is telling me I can't be perfect.

I'm not sure what part of the bible you got that from, but I do know that that's not what Jesus taught. Quote from Jesus: "Even the least among you can do all that I have done, and greater things."

---

thats marlarky and you know it. This is a thread about religion, not the idiosyncrasies in the bible. A)The bible contradicts itself on more thanone occasion, like I said before why take Moses as Gospel, and Aesop as fable? Ask any priest if it is obtainable to be a perfect being, and they will tell youwith complete vigour that no it is not possible.As stated before, I don't need the bible for my belief in God, people believed in "God" beforethe bible was written and they managed to be relatively good people without it.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by armanzaballa

1. My bible teacher told me that Ghandi is currently burning in hell.
I'm not sure why people say stuff like this. Its ignorant to just place people in Hell. I believe Ghandi, if He lived a life that pleased Godwill have a place in Heaven.

2. My bible teacher told me that homosexuality is a SIN. That is ridiculous.
It is. It goes in the class of sexual immorality. And another thing with homosexuality is that they are starting to go towards marriage. Marriageis something that God created and He holds it in very high regard. You can read the vows and tell that. He intended for it to be 1 man and 1 woman so to guysgetting hitched is probably not what He wants

. But like everythingelse, He will be the judge, not us. Saying its wrong is not judging IMO though. Saying they are going to hell is IMO.

3. I get sick of hearing, "Well the Bible says...." you can't use that line when arguing with non-Christians, because to us, the Bible is nothing but a book that holds several contradictory statements in it.
OK well then don't talk to us about it. Plain and simple if you feel that way. You can use whatever you want but we can't?

Could you list them though?

4. All sin is equal. NO. Murdering and raping are not the same as cussing and lusting whether it be in God's eyes or human's eyes.
Well that could be something that could be interpreted in many ways. I understand sin = sin. But in my eyes murder is worse than lust as well.Maybe God said that for a reason though.

5. Where do animals go? Heaven or Hell? My Christian friends tell me that they go nowhere because they do not have souls. Are my friends ignorant or is that what Christianity teaches them?
Um I don't know if they have souls, but I don't know honestly. I'm more so concerned with am I doing enough to get there myself.

I am in high school and I am in an extremely vulnerable situation regarding my spiritual life. I don't know EXACTLY what I believe in, but I do know that it's reasons like these that push me away from Christianity and religion in general.
Well it sounds like you need to think for yourself and figure whats best. God has rules, regulations and expectations. The world has rules andregulations. You gotta figure out which one you want to live under. God or the world? We're not the same. Some people represent and others don't a goodjob at it.

I have learned that documentaries such as "Jesus Camps" shouldn't affect any of us when pointing fingers at certain religions. Every religion has it's extremists. The parents that brainwash their kids in this documentary are nothing but religious extremists. Muslim extremists lead to terrorism. Buddhist extremists try to damage Methodist churches. And Christian extremists such as the ones in "Jesus Camps" prevent their kids from reading "Harry Potter" because it involves witchcraft.
Yeah I don't think I would go that far. If it is something that is harmful to their young mind then OK, but I would have to review everythingto make sure. Don't want my kids reading "Confessions of a Video Vixen"

Last night I prayed. It felt good.

Knowing that a familiar figure in my life heard me again. It actually strengthened my faith.

I know God is there and that should be enough.

He always hears you. He's always there.

Yea is hard to believe somethin when your whole life u been shown otherwise. Is like you have to see it before you believe it now.
I feel you. Maybe that's our ultimate test to see how loyal we are.

I'm very much a Christian, but I'm skeptical as hell, to the point where one day I just came up with my own definition that made sense to me. For me just way too many things were off, I understand having faith and all but seeing things like Jesus Camp makes me wonder.
Don't let one apple spoil the bunch.

 

[retr0sxual]

I can't believe some of the @$%% people are saying in here.

 

[bboy1827]

It's def seeming that my skepticism is the most justified, in this thread atleast. Not saying I don't like religion; I love the good it brought to theworld; I love the stories; I love how it helps people; but for me I don't think it's needed for the world. Would the world be a better place...idk butis religion absolutely neccessary, not to me.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by retr0sxual

I can't believe some of the @$%% people are saying in here.

Your name is

 

[mytmouse76]

Originally Posted by bboy1827

It's def seeming that my skepticism is the most justified, in this thread atleast. Not saying I don't like religion; I love the good it brought to the world; I love the stories; I love how it helps people; but for me I don't think it's needed for the world. Would the world be a better place...idk but is religion absolutely neccessary, not to me.

its not needed for you...you can't speak for the rest of the world...not to come at you if that's how it sounds...

 

[lesfamilia]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by retr0sxual

I can't believe some of the @$%% people are saying in here.

Your name is

LOL, I really needed a laugh today.

 

[bboy1827]

Originally Posted by mytmouse76

Originally Posted by bboy1827

It's def seeming that my skepticism is the most justified, in this thread atleast. Not saying I don't like religion; I love the good it brought to the world; I love the stories; I love how it helps people; but for me I don't think it's needed for the world. Would the world be a better place...idk but is religion absolutely neccessary, not to me.

its not needed for you...you can't speak for the rest of the world...not to come at you if that's how it sounds...

What so great has it done for the world? It's cool for individual people, but I'm not the first one to say "The world would be better off withoutreligion"-Ben Franklin also Thomas Jeffereson was an aethiest..or believed to be one. People are perfectly logical enough to come to the same conclusionsthat religion has come to without religion is what I am saying. I don't need a book or a priest to tell me killing somone for no reason is wrong.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

If all sin was to be weighed equally then why are there the 7 deadly sins? Why are there mortal and venial sins?

 

[moonmaster3]

Originally Posted by bboy1827

Originally Posted by mytmouse76

Originally Posted by bboy1827

It's def seeming that my skepticism is the most justified, in this thread atleast. Not saying I don't like religion; I love the good it brought to the world; I love the stories; I love how it helps people; but for me I don't think it's needed for the world. Would the world be a better place...idk but is religion absolutely neccessary, not to me.

its not needed for you...you can't speak for the rest of the world...not to come at you if that's how it sounds...

What so great has it done for the world? It's cool for individual people, but I'm not the first one to say "The world would be better off without religion"-Ben Franklin also Thomas Jeffereson was an aethiest..or believed to be one. People are perfectly logical enough to come to the same conclusions that religion has come to without religion is what I am saying. I don't need a book or a priest to tell me killing somone for no reason is wrong.

If there is no God, then honestly I have no reason not to go out and rape, pillage, and kill. What difference would it make? If there is no afterlife of anykind, then it doesn't really matter when I die, since when I die it'll be like a permanent sleep.

 

[mytmouse76]

Originally Posted by bboy1827

Originally Posted by mytmouse76

Originally Posted by bboy1827

It's def seeming that my skepticism is the most justified, in this thread atleast. Not saying I don't like religion; I love the good it brought to the world; I love the stories; I love how it helps people; but for me I don't think it's needed for the world. Would the world be a better place...idk but is religion absolutely neccessary, not to me.

its not needed for you...you can't speak for the rest of the world...not to come at you if that's how it sounds...

What so great has it done for the world? It's cool for individual people, but I'm not the first one to say "The world would be better off without religion"-Ben Franklin also Thomas Jeffereson was an aethiest..or believed to be one. People are perfectly logical enough to come to the same conclusions that religion has come to without religion is what I am saying. I don't need a book or a priest to tell me killing somone for no reason is wrong.

like i said...that works for you...you can't speak for everyone else...or the world...i get what you're saying...

 

[lobotomybeats]

To answer the original question...

I couldn't believe anymore. I couldn't, with good conscience, spread what I believed to be nonsense. I couldn't see the sin in people that Irecognized as equals. Homosexuals, people of different or no religions, the divorced, etc..weren't any lesser than me. Their existence wasn't any lessmeaningful and their pursuit of happiness wasn't any less real than mine. My mind was expanding and in doing so I realized the error in just accepting areligion because I always have. I wised up. I investigated the likelihood of god's existence and came away sure that a superior being wasn't onlyabsent, but actually a bad idea in the first place. I didn't just reject religion and god, I came away understanding that god's presence isn't evengreat in theory. I am positive there isn't a god. If given the choice, I wouldn't want there to be one. A world full of people relying on their ownstability and intelligence seemed perfect. I still believe this. I believe that if no one was allowed to be introduced to god until an 'age of reason,'ironically the time that most are confirmed, no one could believe. A person's better judgment would keep them from adopting that stuff.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

To answer the original question...

I couldn't believe anymore. I couldn't, with good conscience, spread what I believed to be nonsense. I couldn't see the sin in people that I recognized as equals. Homosexuals, people of different or no religions, the divorced, etc..weren't any lesser than me. Their existence wasn't any less meaningful and their pursuit of happiness wasn't any less real than mine. My mind was expanding and in doing so I realized the error in just accepting a religion because I always have. I wised up. I investigated the likelihood of god's existence and came away sure that a superior being wasn't only absent, but actually a bad idea in the first place. I didn't just reject religion and god, I came away understanding that god's presence isn't even great in theory. I am positive there isn't a god. If given the choice, I wouldn't want there to be one. A world full of people relying on their own stability and intelligence seemed perfect. I still believe this. I believe that if no one was allowed to be introduced to god until an 'age of reason,' ironically the time that most are confirmed, no one could believe. A person's better judgment would keep them from adopting that stuff.

OK

. Keep thinking the world doesn't need God. You think itsF'd up now

.

Seriously, do you all not see what not listening to God has done for us? I tried to hold back before but this is getting to a point where you seem to thinkyour smarter than God. Well you don't believe in God but IMO you are making yourself out to be smarter than God.

Lets take into account 1 thing, just 1 thing the world ignored and its a serious problem now. SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE. This is a real problem. The population,sti's, pain and drama have sky-rocketed because of it. Turn on Maury. That show may be B.S. but from what I've seen with my own two eyes isn't. WeCANNOT self govern. Look at the world now. This is what happens when we self govern. Its getting worse. The more people stray away from God and to evil itsgoing to get much worse. Your a smart dude but your giving yourself and everyone else way too much credit.

We got people who think its cool have sex with little girls and boys. Imagine how things would be with no God. There wouldn't be any rules to begin with.There would be nothing. How in the heck can a random event just happen from nothing and lead to all of this? Everything we see has a creator. You, I and thecomputers we're using to go back and forth all have creators. But the universe doesn't because you don't believe God has that power?

Do this. Have a baby. Lock it up in a room. Don't have any type of contact with it but just feed it until 18 or so. Release it into the world and watchwhat happens. See what I'm saying. If we're so smart then why do we need teachers and YEARS of school?. Now your saying we evolved into this state?Come on bro. We're smart but you give us credit we don't deserve.

No offense anyone but hey, its a debate and they get like this

 

[lesfamilia]

Originally Posted by moonmaster3

Originally Posted by bboy1827

Originally Posted by mytmouse76

Originally Posted by bboy1827

It's def seeming that my skepticism is the most justified, in this thread atleast. Not saying I don't like religion; I love the good it brought to the world; I love the stories; I love how it helps people; but for me I don't think it's needed for the world. Would the world be a better place...idk but is religion absolutely neccessary, not to me.

its not needed for you...you can't speak for the rest of the world...not to come at you if that's how it sounds...

What so great has it done for the world? It's cool for individual people, but I'm not the first one to say "The world would be better off without religion"-Ben Franklin also Thomas Jeffereson was an aethiest..or believed to be one. People are perfectly logical enough to come to the same conclusions that religion has come to without religion is what I am saying. I don't need a book or a priest to tell me killing somone for no reason is wrong.

If there is no God, then honestly I have no reason not to go out and rape, pillage, and kill. What difference would it make? If there is no afterlife of any kind, then it doesn't really matter when I die, since when I die it'll be like a permanent sleep.

That was a very interesting display of circular logic. Like I said earlier in this post, one of our biggest problems as humans is we try toanalyze and debate based on logic instead of principle.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by LESfamilia

Originally Posted by moonmaster3

Originally Posted by bboy1827

Originally Posted by mytmouse76

Originally Posted by bboy1827

It's def seeming that my skepticism is the most justified, in this thread atleast. Not saying I don't like religion; I love the good it brought to the world; I love the stories; I love how it helps people; but for me I don't think it's needed for the world. Would the world be a better place...idk but is religion absolutely neccessary, not to me.

its not needed for you...you can't speak for the rest of the world...not to come at you if that's how it sounds...

What so great has it done for the world? It's cool for individual people, but I'm not the first one to say "The world would be better off without religion"-Ben Franklin also Thomas Jeffereson was an aethiest..or believed to be one. People are perfectly logical enough to come to the same conclusions that religion has come to without religion is what I am saying. I don't need a book or a priest to tell me killing somone for no reason is wrong.

If there is no God, then honestly I have no reason not to go out and rape, pillage, and kill. What difference would it make? If there is no afterlife of any kind, then it doesn't really matter when I die, since when I die it'll be like a permanent sleep.

That was a very interesting display of circular logic. Like I said earlier in this post, one of our biggest problems as humans is we try to analyze and debate based on logic instead of principle.

More details on the part highlighted please?

 

[armanzaballa]

what happens to the millions of people who haven't even heard of Jesus. I know Christian missionaries are spreading the word of God pretty well butit's not like they've covered the entire world. So do those starving kids in Africa who haven't heard ANYTHING about this man Jesus or God orwhatever. Do they burn in hell when they die from starvation?

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Originally Posted by armanzaballa

what happens to the millions of people who haven't even heard of Jesus. I know Christian missionaries are spreading the word of God pretty well but it's not like they've covered the entire world. So do those starving kids in Africa who haven't heard ANYTHING about this man Jesus or God or whatever. Do they burn in hell when they die from starvation?

That's not how it works.

 

[drock2010]

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Originally Posted by armanzaballa

what happens to the millions of people who haven't even heard of Jesus. I know Christian missionaries are spreading the word of God pretty well but it's not like they've covered the entire world. So do those starving kids in Africa who haven't heard ANYTHING about this man Jesus or God or whatever. Do they burn in hell when they die from starvation?

That's not how it works.

How does it work?

 

[chi ill]

Originally Posted by LESfamilia

Originally Posted by bilbo07

Originally Posted by Chi ILL

- Because the most religious people I know seem to be the most evil .

Probably the realest thing Ive read on NT.

Kneesh, am I evil to you? I promise you: I'm doing the best I can everyday to be the best person I can be. It's not easy, but through Him nothing is impossible.

Nah , from what I know of you , you aren't . I'm talking about people I know .

I could go to church with my Grandmother , they're praising the Lord & as soon as they get out of Church ...

They talk about everyone in church , in very evil ways ...

Just WRONG .

 

[bboy1827]

Originally Posted by LESfamilia

Originally Posted by moonmaster3

Originally Posted by bboy1827

Originally Posted by mytmouse76

Originally Posted by bboy1827

It's def seeming that my skepticism is the most justified, in this thread atleast. Not saying I don't like religion; I love the good it brought to the world; I love the stories; I love how it helps people; but for me I don't think it's needed for the world. Would the world be a better place...idk but is religion absolutely neccessary, not to me.

its not needed for you...you can't speak for the rest of the world...not to come at you if that's how it sounds...

What so great has it done for the world? It's cool for individual people, but I'm not the first one to say "The world would be better off without religion"-Ben Franklin also Thomas Jeffereson was an aethiest..or believed to be one. People are perfectly logical enough to come to the same conclusions that religion has come to without religion is what I am saying. I don't need a book or a priest to tell me killing somone for no reason is wrong.

If there is no God, then honestly I have no reason not to go out and rape, pillage, and kill. What difference would it make? If there is no afterlife of any kind, then it doesn't really matter when I die, since when I die it'll be like a permanent sleep.

That was a very interesting display of circular logic. Like I said earlier in this post, one of our biggest problems as humans is we try to analyze and debate based on logic instead of principle.

That makes nos sense. If the only reason you aren't raping killing and pillaging is because you fear the consequences then you sir are adisturbed individual. You shouldn't need God to tell you not to kill people, it's innate in the human condition, the empirical evidence of this isbecause people in general don't kill people, even if they have the desire their moral compasse won't allow them(you don't need to get your moralsfrom "God" for the record people had them before God). Why shouldn't we analyze and debate things through logic? We can't build bridgesthrough principles. The reason that America doesn't have universal health care is becasue of peoples principles opposed to logic. One reason why peoplekill(i.e crusades and most other wars) was because of peoples principles. It seems that perserving human life and following logic has solved more problems thanprinciples have caused.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Originally Posted by drock2010

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Originally Posted by armanzaballa

what happens to the millions of people who haven't even heard of Jesus. I know Christian missionaries are spreading the word of God pretty well but it's not like they've covered the entire world. So do those starving kids in Africa who haven't heard ANYTHING about this man Jesus or God or whatever. Do they burn in hell when they die from starvation?

That's not how it works.

How does it work?

Use common sense. And there's no burning in hell.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by drock2010

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Originally Posted by armanzaballa

what happens to the millions of people who haven't even heard of Jesus. I know Christian missionaries are spreading the word of God pretty well but it's not like they've covered the entire world. So do those starving kids in Africa who haven't heard ANYTHING about this man Jesus or God or whatever. Do they burn in hell when they die from starvation?

That's not how it works.

How does it work?

I don't think you can be judge on what you never heard or knew. So they will probably get a pass. That's my opinion though. Someone posted something onthat a while back but I forgot who.

I could go to church with my Grandmother , they're praising the Lord & as soon as they get out of Church ...

They talk about everyone in church , in very evil ways ...

Just WRONG .
Don't judge the rest because of 1.

 

[korto]

Originally Posted by drock2010

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Originally Posted by armanzaballa

what happens to the millions of people who haven't even heard of Jesus. I know Christian missionaries are spreading the word of God pretty well but it's not like they've covered the entire world. So do those starving kids in Africa who haven't heard ANYTHING about this man Jesus or God or whatever. Do they burn in hell when they die from starvation?

That's not how it works.

How does it work?

From a reply I made near the beginning of the thread:

Originally Posted by Korto

When the bible says that only through Jesus can people be saved, you have to understand that it means that only through God can people be saved, not the six foot tall human. Think about how many billions of people throughout the ages have never even heard of Jesus, how silly it is to claim that they are all doomed to "suffer in hell for eternity". It's unfortunate that so many Christians don't actually understand this though. Just look through the bible, Jesus says things like "look under a rock, and I will be there" - clearly he is talking about God. And this is the same God that Gandhi discovered, the same God that millions of people discovered and gave thousands of different names to, but unfortunately too many people can't see this and start separating "my god" from "your god". Like that saying says: If Jesus and Buddha met, they would hug each other in love, but Jesus' sheeps and Buddha's goats would start to quarrel.

Even if a person doesn't consciously believe in "God", if he lives life with integrity and does good things, and does so out of love and not out of fear or hate, what do you think he has discovered? Why do you think he acts the way he does? He may think of God as someone up in the clouds that is watching him (unfortunately a lot of people seem to have this idea of God) and say that such a silly thing doesn't exist and may even call himself an athiest. But the very reason he lives an integral life, the very kindness which he treats people with, the love itself that his actions come from, that is what is discovering God, whether you realize it or not. And that is what will "save" you - living life this way, not your beliefs.

I don't really have the time to comment on any other posts, but let me just say a few things. Just because everything in the entire Bible doesn'tappeal to you, or just because you've met Christians that seemed like terrible people, doesn't mean that you have to automatically assume that theentire bible or all Christians are garbage. Read the bible (new testament, or any other spiritual scripture from any other religion in the world), take fromit what you like, and don't take what you don't like. Maybe come back to it again a bit later, and you'll see that things that seemed ridiculousbefore now make some sense, or things that seemed profound before now seem normal. If you were walking and you saw a diamond in the mud, you'd pick up thediamond, maybe wash it off a little, and leave the mud behind. Why not do the same with scriptures? If you can find just a single idea in the bible thatopens a new door or perspective in your life, you've accomplished more than you will spending your entire life bible-bashing.

If you honestly and intensely seek the truth, it is there, and you will find it. I used to be skeptic, I had many of the questions or suspicions that peoplein this thread have, but I kept searching and I kept an open mind and now I can honestly say I've found many, many of the answers I was looking for... evento things that at the time seemed like I would never be able to know.

 

[retr0sxual]

Originally Posted by LESfamilia

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by retr0sxual

I can't believe some of the @$%% people are saying in here.

Your name is

LOL, I really needed a laugh today.

Wow.

 

[moonmaster3]

Originally Posted by Korto

Originally Posted by drock2010

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Originally Posted by armanzaballa

what happens to the millions of people who haven't even heard of Jesus. I know Christian missionaries are spreading the word of God pretty well but it's not like they've covered the entire world. So do those starving kids in Africa who haven't heard ANYTHING about this man Jesus or God or whatever. Do they burn in hell when they die from starvation?

That's not how it works.

How does it work?

From a reply I made near the beginning of the thread:

Originally Posted by Korto

When the bible says that only through Jesus can people be saved, you have to understand that it means that only through God can people be saved, not the six foot tall human. Think about how many billions of people throughout the ages have never even heard of Jesus, how silly it is to claim that they are all doomed to "suffer in hell for eternity". It's unfortunate that so many Christians don't actually understand this though. Just look through the bible, Jesus says things like "look under a rock, and I will be there" - clearly he is talking about God. And this is the same God that Gandhi discovered, the same God that millions of people discovered and gave thousands of different names to, but unfortunately too many people can't see this and start separating "my god" from "your god". Like that saying says: If Jesus and Buddha met, they would hug each other in love, but Jesus' sheeps and Buddha's goats would start to quarrel.

Even if a person doesn't consciously believe in "God", if he lives life with integrity and does good things, and does so out of love and not out of fear or hate, what do you think he has discovered? Why do you think he acts the way he does? He may think of God as someone up in the clouds that is watching him (unfortunately a lot of people seem to have this idea of God) and say that such a silly thing doesn't exist and may even call himself an athiest. But the very reason he lives an integral life, the very kindness which he treats people with, the love itself that his actions come from, that is what is discovering God, whether you realize it or not. And that is what will "save" you - living life this way, not your beliefs.

I don't really have the time to comment on any other posts, but let me just say a few things. Just because everything in the entire Bible doesn't appeal to you, or just because you've met Christians that seemed like terrible people, doesn't mean that you have to automatically assume that the entire bible or all Christians are garbage. Read the bible (new testament, or any other spiritual scripture from any other religion in the world), take from it what you like, and don't take what you don't like. Maybe come back to it again a bit later, and you'll see that things that seemed ridiculous before now make some sense, or things that seemed profound before now seem normal. If you were walking and you saw a diamond in the mud, you'd pick up the diamond, maybe wash it off a little, and leave the mud behind. Why not do the same with scriptures? If you can find just a single idea in the bible that opens a new door or perspective in your life, you've accomplished more than you will spending your entire life bible-bashing.

If you honestly and intensely seek the truth, it is there, and you will find it. I used to be skeptic, I had many of the questions or suspicions that people in this thread have, but I kept searching and I kept an open mind and now I can honestly say I've found many, many of the answers I was looking for... even to things that at the time seemed like I would never be able to know.

That has to be one the most liberal interpretations of what Christianity is about, and I mean that in the worse way possible. The whole foundation is belief inJesus as the son of God, and faith in Him. Yes, the 6 foot human. I don't understand how you came to that conclusion, or who taught you that, but by anybasic Christian doctrine, that is entirely wrong. Faith in just the Father is not enough to get into Heaven. If you don't accept Christ, no Heaven, thisisn't something ambiguous within Christianity. What do you think is separating Christianity for Judaism right now?