BYU: Brandon Davies - what did he even do?

[DCAllAfrican]

I just want to know why he Curtis'ed himself.

But aren't the Mormons the same folks that believe people of dark skin are cursed? Correct me if I am wrong/

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I just want to know why he Curtis'ed himself.

But aren't the Mormons the same folks that believe people of dark skin are cursed? Correct me if I am wrong/

 

[DeadsetAce]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

I just want to know why he Curtis'ed himself.

that's why i think the girl has to be pregnant...cause there's no denying that. abortions definitely don't fly in that religion.

and overall, maybe he's just a good dude. if she's not pregnant, maybe he actually felt the need to confess that he broke code.

 

[DeadsetAce]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

I just want to know why he Curtis'ed himself.

that's why i think the girl has to be pregnant...cause there's no denying that. abortions definitely don't fly in that religion.

and overall, maybe he's just a good dude. if she's not pregnant, maybe he actually felt the need to confess that he broke code.

 

[larrydavidswag]

regardless, he decided to rock w BYU and broke their code...

my thought is this; can't he just transfer somewhere else? Couldnt the NCAA, theoretically, make an exception in his case and allow him to play next year somewhere else?

 

[larrydavidswag]

regardless, he decided to rock w BYU and broke their code...

my thought is this; can't he just transfer somewhere else? Couldnt the NCAA, theoretically, make an exception in his case and allow him to play next year somewhere else?

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

I just want to know why he Curtis'ed himself.

that's why i think the girl has to be pregnant...cause there's no denying that. abortions definitely don't fly in that religion.

and overall, maybe he's just a good dude. if she's not pregnant, maybe he actually felt the need to confess that he broke code.

Oooh....didn't think of the whole pregnancy angle...

it's not like the girl can walk around the BYU campus w. a baby bump and no wedding ring like no one would notice. 

And FWIW...just because he broke the honor code for this infraction at BYU doesn't mean he's a bad kid....

*Is Davies Mormon? 
  

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

I just want to know why he Curtis'ed himself.

that's why i think the girl has to be pregnant...cause there's no denying that. abortions definitely don't fly in that religion.

and overall, maybe he's just a good dude. if she's not pregnant, maybe he actually felt the need to confess that he broke code.

Oooh....didn't think of the whole pregnancy angle...

it's not like the girl can walk around the BYU campus w. a baby bump and no wedding ring like no one would notice. 

And FWIW...just because he broke the honor code for this infraction at BYU doesn't mean he's a bad kid....

*Is Davies Mormon? 
  

 

[ace rawstein]

yeah i wanna know why or how he admitted....was it one of those end of the year surveys or sumtin n dude bubbled yes?

aint know way they call me in the deans office and I know ahead of time they out for me that im sayin i smashed.

 

[ace rawstein]

yeah i wanna know why or how he admitted....was it one of those end of the year surveys or sumtin n dude bubbled yes?

aint know way they call me in the deans office and I know ahead of time they out for me that im sayin i smashed.

 

[larrydavidswag]

nah, you dont have to be mormon to go to BYU

steve young got interviewed on it last night, and i agree somewhat..

in the schools like 1k year history, there have been hundreds, if not thousands of non-mormon people who graduated successfully from BYU....

this isn't just a SPORTS rule, its a campus-wide rule...

at the same time, now, though, he should be able to play anwhere that'll offer him a scholly, and the NCAA shouldnt make him sit out a season...

 

[larrydavidswag]

nah, you dont have to be mormon to go to BYU

steve young got interviewed on it last night, and i agree somewhat..

in the schools like 1k year history, there have been hundreds, if not thousands of non-mormon people who graduated successfully from BYU....

this isn't just a SPORTS rule, its a campus-wide rule...

at the same time, now, though, he should be able to play anwhere that'll offer him a scholly, and the NCAA shouldnt make him sit out a season...

 

[39478]

Originally Posted by dland24

Originally Posted by DaJoka004

Being kicked off the team is fair. But if you're going to do that, you need to kick him out of school at the same time. He didn't break a team rule. He broke the school's code. If the school is taking the time to review his situation, why is he kicked off the team immediately? How are non-athletes who commit the same offense punished? 

This is a really great post that I think most people missed.  Questions I never really thought about.  Can anyone answer these questions?  Dr. Funk?

I'll try answer these questions to the best of my ability, but please remember two things: 1) I do not officially represent either BYU or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in speaking about these matters, and 2) There may be no clear cut answer, but I'll try my best to provide all the information I can.

I'll copy heavily from the actual, written Honor Code from BYU, so each of you are aware of what BYU students are required to sign and live by when attending BYU. I'm going to try to be quick; I've got homework 

First, let me give you the Honor Code:

As a matter of personal commitment, faculty, administration, staff, and students of Brigham Young University, Brigham Young University—Hawaii, Brigham Young University—Idaho, and LDS Business College seek to demonstrate in daily living on and off campus those moral virtues encompassed in the gospel of Jesus Christ, and will:

Be honest 
Live a chaste and virtuous life 
Obey the law and all campus policies 
Use clean language 
Respect others 
Abstain from alcoholic beverages, tobacco, tea, coffee, and substance abuse 
Participate regularly in church services 
Observe the Dress and Grooming Standards Encourage others in their commitment to comply with the Honor Code

Specific policies embodied in the Honor Code include (1) the Academic Honesty Policy, (2) the Dress and Grooming Standards, (3) the Residential Living Standards, and (4) the Continuing Student Ecclesiastical Endorsement. (Refer to institutional policies for more detailed information.)

I know, it may seem ridiculous to you and to many other people, but for those who attend the university and are LDS, much of it makes sense and is nothing out of the ordinary (save for some parts about grooming and dress).

The following information below is under the heading "Good Honor Code Standing"

Students must be in good Honor Code standing to be admitted to, continue enrollment at, and graduate from BYU. The term "good Honor Code standing" means that a student's conduct is consistent with the Honor Code and the ideals and principles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Excommunication, disfellowshipment, or disaffiliation from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints automatically results in the loss of good Honor Code standing. Further, a student is not in good Honor Code standing if his or her ecclesiastical endorsement has either lapsed or has been withdrawn, or if the Honor Code Office has placed a "hold" on the student's records.

All students, upon admission to BYU, are required to observe the standards of the Honor Code at all times, whether on or off campus. When the Honor Code Office receives reports of misconduct prior to a prospective student's admission or readmission, those reports are referred to the Admissions Office for appropriate action. When the Honor Code Office receives reports of student misconduct after admission or readmission, but before registration for classes, the Honor Code Office typically notifies the student, indicating that a "hold" will be placed on the student's registration if the matter is not resolved to the satisfaction of the Honor Code Office by a specified date. The Honor Code Office also reserves the right to place a "hold" on the record of any student based on reports of student misconduct prior to notifying the student.
Here is the last part of the Honor Code that I will use in my small discussion of Davies. This is listed under "Conduct"

All students and residents are required to conduct themselves in a manner consistent with the Honor Code. In addition, students may not influence or seek to influence others to engage in behavior inconsistent with the Honor Code.

Students must abstain from the use of alcohol, tobacco, and illegal substances and from the intentional misuse or abuse of any substance. Sexual misconduct; obscene or indecent conduct or expressions; disorderly or disruptive conduct; participation in gambling activities; involvement with pornographic, erotic, indecent, or offensive material; and any other conduct or action inconsistent with the principles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Honor Code is not permitted.

Violations of the Honor Code may result in actions up to and including separation from the university.
Okay, now that I've got some groundwork laid, I'll explain it the best I can.
Can Brandon Davies be expelled from school? Yes. Based on the information in the Honor Code, he certainly can be expelled. However, with that being said, here is the most important part: He can be re-admitted should he show necessary changes in behavior and re-commits to live the Honor Code. Will this happen? I have no idea. That is up to school administrators, Davies' local religious leader, and Davies himself. A good example of this would be Reno Mahe, who violated the Honor Code and left school. He later re-committed to it, re-enrolled, and continued to play for the football team a year later. Scholarship and everything.

As I said earlier, I cannot speak for the University, who I'm sure is trying to be discreet about this as possible, which is completely appropriate. My guess is that Davies will not be able to continue enrollment at this time and will be forced to re-apply at a later point, after a period of time has passed to show that he is willing to commit to the idea of the Honor Code and has shown the right attitude about it. BYU isn't about turning people away when they have difficult issues, which I think many people misunderstand. BYU expects each student to live a particular way and if that student does not live up to what they agreed to, then the school will deny enrollment. Should the student at a later point agree to live the principles of the Honor Code, then BYU wouldn't turn them away whatsoever (provided they meet the academic standards, just like any other university).

Non-athletes more than likely have the same course should they have a major violation of the Honor Code. They are more than likely removed from school, but always with the option to return, assuming things are in order with the student's life and they are committed to the Honor Code.

The likely reason Davies was removed from the basketball team is because that is a privilege. While every student is an ambassador to the university, athletes are highly visible and thus are more likely to be seen as representatives of the school. Just as other universities suspend or expel student-athletes for violation of team conduct, BYU will suspend or expel student-athletes and students on the violation of team conduct (if they are an athlete) or violation of the Honor Code.

Again, I don't know all of the particulars of Brandon Davies' situation. His local religious leader is almost assuredly aware of the issue and I'm sure is working with Brandon (assuming Brandon wants it) to help him live a life that meets the requirements of the Honor Code. When his religious leader finds Brandon to be living those standards once again, he will fully endorse Brandon's re-admittance to BYU, where he will more than likely resume his playing days as a BYU basketball member.

I hope that all made sense. If it didn't, let me know which parts were confusing and I will try to elaborate on them at a later point. I've got some stuff to do, but I'll check back periodically for anything questions.

As far as me being a douche, I'm sorry?

 

[39478]

Originally Posted by dland24

Originally Posted by DaJoka004

Being kicked off the team is fair. But if you're going to do that, you need to kick him out of school at the same time. He didn't break a team rule. He broke the school's code. If the school is taking the time to review his situation, why is he kicked off the team immediately? How are non-athletes who commit the same offense punished? 

This is a really great post that I think most people missed.  Questions I never really thought about.  Can anyone answer these questions?  Dr. Funk?

I'll try answer these questions to the best of my ability, but please remember two things: 1) I do not officially represent either BYU or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in speaking about these matters, and 2) There may be no clear cut answer, but I'll try my best to provide all the information I can.

I'll copy heavily from the actual, written Honor Code from BYU, so each of you are aware of what BYU students are required to sign and live by when attending BYU. I'm going to try to be quick; I've got homework 

First, let me give you the Honor Code:

As a matter of personal commitment, faculty, administration, staff, and students of Brigham Young University, Brigham Young University—Hawaii, Brigham Young University—Idaho, and LDS Business College seek to demonstrate in daily living on and off campus those moral virtues encompassed in the gospel of Jesus Christ, and will:

Be honest 
Live a chaste and virtuous life 
Obey the law and all campus policies 
Use clean language 
Respect others 
Abstain from alcoholic beverages, tobacco, tea, coffee, and substance abuse 
Participate regularly in church services 
Observe the Dress and Grooming Standards Encourage others in their commitment to comply with the Honor Code

Specific policies embodied in the Honor Code include (1) the Academic Honesty Policy, (2) the Dress and Grooming Standards, (3) the Residential Living Standards, and (4) the Continuing Student Ecclesiastical Endorsement. (Refer to institutional policies for more detailed information.)

I know, it may seem ridiculous to you and to many other people, but for those who attend the university and are LDS, much of it makes sense and is nothing out of the ordinary (save for some parts about grooming and dress).

The following information below is under the heading "Good Honor Code Standing"

Students must be in good Honor Code standing to be admitted to, continue enrollment at, and graduate from BYU. The term "good Honor Code standing" means that a student's conduct is consistent with the Honor Code and the ideals and principles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Excommunication, disfellowshipment, or disaffiliation from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints automatically results in the loss of good Honor Code standing. Further, a student is not in good Honor Code standing if his or her ecclesiastical endorsement has either lapsed or has been withdrawn, or if the Honor Code Office has placed a "hold" on the student's records.

All students, upon admission to BYU, are required to observe the standards of the Honor Code at all times, whether on or off campus. When the Honor Code Office receives reports of misconduct prior to a prospective student's admission or readmission, those reports are referred to the Admissions Office for appropriate action. When the Honor Code Office receives reports of student misconduct after admission or readmission, but before registration for classes, the Honor Code Office typically notifies the student, indicating that a "hold" will be placed on the student's registration if the matter is not resolved to the satisfaction of the Honor Code Office by a specified date. The Honor Code Office also reserves the right to place a "hold" on the record of any student based on reports of student misconduct prior to notifying the student.
Here is the last part of the Honor Code that I will use in my small discussion of Davies. This is listed under "Conduct"

All students and residents are required to conduct themselves in a manner consistent with the Honor Code. In addition, students may not influence or seek to influence others to engage in behavior inconsistent with the Honor Code.

Students must abstain from the use of alcohol, tobacco, and illegal substances and from the intentional misuse or abuse of any substance. Sexual misconduct; obscene or indecent conduct or expressions; disorderly or disruptive conduct; participation in gambling activities; involvement with pornographic, erotic, indecent, or offensive material; and any other conduct or action inconsistent with the principles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Honor Code is not permitted.

Violations of the Honor Code may result in actions up to and including separation from the university.
Okay, now that I've got some groundwork laid, I'll explain it the best I can.
Can Brandon Davies be expelled from school? Yes. Based on the information in the Honor Code, he certainly can be expelled. However, with that being said, here is the most important part: He can be re-admitted should he show necessary changes in behavior and re-commits to live the Honor Code. Will this happen? I have no idea. That is up to school administrators, Davies' local religious leader, and Davies himself. A good example of this would be Reno Mahe, who violated the Honor Code and left school. He later re-committed to it, re-enrolled, and continued to play for the football team a year later. Scholarship and everything.

As I said earlier, I cannot speak for the University, who I'm sure is trying to be discreet about this as possible, which is completely appropriate. My guess is that Davies will not be able to continue enrollment at this time and will be forced to re-apply at a later point, after a period of time has passed to show that he is willing to commit to the idea of the Honor Code and has shown the right attitude about it. BYU isn't about turning people away when they have difficult issues, which I think many people misunderstand. BYU expects each student to live a particular way and if that student does not live up to what they agreed to, then the school will deny enrollment. Should the student at a later point agree to live the principles of the Honor Code, then BYU wouldn't turn them away whatsoever (provided they meet the academic standards, just like any other university).

Non-athletes more than likely have the same course should they have a major violation of the Honor Code. They are more than likely removed from school, but always with the option to return, assuming things are in order with the student's life and they are committed to the Honor Code.

The likely reason Davies was removed from the basketball team is because that is a privilege. While every student is an ambassador to the university, athletes are highly visible and thus are more likely to be seen as representatives of the school. Just as other universities suspend or expel student-athletes for violation of team conduct, BYU will suspend or expel student-athletes and students on the violation of team conduct (if they are an athlete) or violation of the Honor Code.

Again, I don't know all of the particulars of Brandon Davies' situation. His local religious leader is almost assuredly aware of the issue and I'm sure is working with Brandon (assuming Brandon wants it) to help him live a life that meets the requirements of the Honor Code. When his religious leader finds Brandon to be living those standards once again, he will fully endorse Brandon's re-admittance to BYU, where he will more than likely resume his playing days as a BYU basketball member.

I hope that all made sense. If it didn't, let me know which parts were confusing and I will try to elaborate on them at a later point. I've got some stuff to do, but I'll check back periodically for anything questions.

As far as me being a douche, I'm sorry?

 

[verdykt]

Originally Posted by dland24

Originally Posted by DaJoka004

Being kicked off the team is fair. But if you're going to do that, you need to kick him out of school at the same time. He didn't break a team rule. He broke the school's code. If the school is taking the time to review his situation, why is he kicked off the team immediately? How are non-athletes who commit the same offense punished? 

This is a really great post that I think most people missed.  Questions I never really thought about.  Can anyone answer these questions?  Dr. Funk?

The are treated the same. I have a few friends that were just regular students that were kicked out for the same infraction. His case seems so much more outrageous because of the high profile that the basketball team has this year. The Honor Code office holds everyone to the same standard. The standards seem a bit odd considering the world we live in today, but its the rules they have been going by for years.

 

[verdykt]

Originally Posted by dland24

Originally Posted by DaJoka004

Being kicked off the team is fair. But if you're going to do that, you need to kick him out of school at the same time. He didn't break a team rule. He broke the school's code. If the school is taking the time to review his situation, why is he kicked off the team immediately? How are non-athletes who commit the same offense punished? 

This is a really great post that I think most people missed.  Questions I never really thought about.  Can anyone answer these questions?  Dr. Funk?

The are treated the same. I have a few friends that were just regular students that were kicked out for the same infraction. His case seems so much more outrageous because of the high profile that the basketball team has this year. The Honor Code office holds everyone to the same standard. The standards seem a bit odd considering the world we live in today, but its the rules they have been going by for years.

 

[lazyj10]

Someone on the radio last night brought up this probably wasnt the first time he did it, probably was told to quit it (or marry her

) and when it came up again he just admitted it.

Pregnancy angle makes sense...

 

[lazyj10]

Someone on the radio last night brought up this probably wasnt the first time he did it, probably was told to quit it (or marry her

) and when it came up again he just admitted it.

Pregnancy angle makes sense...

 

[39478]

One quick note in addition to what I posted.

I know plenty of LDS and non-LDS people alike who are not obligated to live the Honor Code and they are still great and good people. Living the Honor Code isn't the only standard that makes somebody a good person. I just wanted to be clear that while we usually hold ourselves (BYU students) to a higher standard, in no way do I feel that I'm more "righteous" or "worthy" than somebody who doesn't live it. Of course there are people who would disagree with me, but that's to be expected. I'm just giving you my point of view.

 

[39478]

One quick note in addition to what I posted.

I know plenty of LDS and non-LDS people alike who are not obligated to live the Honor Code and they are still great and good people. Living the Honor Code isn't the only standard that makes somebody a good person. I just wanted to be clear that while we usually hold ourselves (BYU students) to a higher standard, in no way do I feel that I'm more "righteous" or "worthy" than somebody who doesn't live it. Of course there are people who would disagree with me, but that's to be expected. I'm just giving you my point of view.

 

[petermans]

Jimmer acting like he never smashed his chick. She's hella bad too.

 

[petermans]

Jimmer acting like he never smashed his chick. She's hella bad too.

 

[ilikethemds]

lol mormon school

 

[ilikethemds]

lol mormon school

 

[k2theablam]

Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

In thinking about it, it sucks that dude got kicked off the team. However, as soon as he signed w. BYU, he knew he had to abide by the honor code. I don't really feel too bad for the kid. If he had chosen any other school in the country, this is a non-issue. He should just pack his ++!# and go somewhere else to play ball.

exactly. dude had offers from gonzaga, cal, zona...so he wasn't forced into this from a "this is my only chance at a scholarship" standpoint. he knew damn well what he was signing up for. i'm sure he's a good kid, but that school is strict as hell, we all know that.

i'm sure premarital sex occurs at BYU, especially with the athletes...but i would think he had to have gotten the girl pregnant to be kicked off. you can't cover that up. you can't hide that. 

Nobody has once factored in his (foster) parent's influence on choosing BYU. He might have just went to BYU because his mormon parents told him too. Being raised in that faith, its understandable that he signed up for the school just to make his parents happy.