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Once again you speak while having absolutely no knowledge of the subject that you speak of. You must love making yourself look like an idiot.Originally Posted by Essential1
Originally Posted by cguy610
Originally Posted by Essential1
Wellllllllllllllll let's continue to trust Corporations because capitalism is the American way...
I know. What alot of these free market Repubs don't realize is that if many of these corporations weren't so greedy, this "expansion" of government wouldn't fly. The greedier these corporations get, the more people are going to look for the government to pick up the slack. (in healthcare, unemployment, social security, medicare, welfare, etc)
Capitalism + 0 Socialism = Totalitarian Government controlled by corporate bottom line watchers
Capitalism + Socialism = A manageable and highly successful system
Mhmm because everytime Government takes its hands off the economy and corporations with deregulation or lack there of in the first place we don't see a widespread economic downfall everytime.. Maybe not for the richest 20% but for the 80% that isn't making a sufficient amount they suffer. the Early 1900's 1920's 1980's, Late 1990's 2000's. Deregulation is the precursor for economic decline. Without Socialism or Government Intervention Capitalism fails.. And without a sense of Capitalism, Communism fails... Socialism your "danger word" is the thing that makes Capitalism from falling the way of communism on the other end of the spectrum.Originally Posted by JustScoreda100
Once again you speak while having absolutely no knowledge of the subject that you speak of. You must love making yourself look like an idiot.Originally Posted by Essential1
Originally Posted by cguy610
Originally Posted by Essential1
Wellllllllllllllll let's continue to trust Corporations because capitalism is the American way...
I know. What alot of these free market Repubs don't realize is that if many of these corporations weren't so greedy, this "expansion" of government wouldn't fly. The greedier these corporations get, the more people are going to look for the government to pick up the slack. (in healthcare, unemployment, social security, medicare, welfare, etc)
Capitalism + 0 Socialism = Totalitarian Government controlled by corporate bottom line watchers
Capitalism + Socialism = A manageable and highly successful system
you gottem good!Originally Posted by UTVOL23
You guys are hilarious.
You're blabbering. Just because you make a long argument doesn't make what you said correct.Your statement about Capitalism + no Socialism = totalitarianism shows how little you know about this subject. I doubt you even know what actual totalitarianism even is.Originally Posted by Essential1
Mhmm because everytime Government takes its hands off the economy and corporations with deregulation or lack there of in the first place we don't see a widespread economic downfall everytime.. Maybe not for the richest 20% but for the 80% that isn't making a sufficient amount they suffer. the Early 1900's 1920's 1980's, Late 1990's 2000's. Deregulation is the precursor for economic decline. Without Socialism or Government Intervention Capitalism fails.. And without a sense of Capitalism, Communism fails... Socialism your "danger word" is the thing that makes Capitalism from falling the way of communism on the other end of the spectrum.Originally Posted by JustScoreda100
Once again you speak while having absolutely no knowledge of the subject that you speak of. You must love making yourself look like an idiot.Originally Posted by Essential1
Originally Posted by cguy610
Originally Posted by Essential1
Wellllllllllllllll let's continue to trust Corporations because capitalism is the American way...
I know. What alot of these free market Repubs don't realize is that if many of these corporations weren't so greedy, this "expansion" of government wouldn't fly. The greedier these corporations get, the more people are going to look for the government to pick up the slack. (in healthcare, unemployment, social security, medicare, welfare, etc)
Capitalism + 0 Socialism = Totalitarian Government controlled by corporate bottom line watchers
Capitalism + Socialism = A manageable and highly successful system
Let me guess black people getting loans is the reason the economy collapsed...
Not shady CDS, Naked CDS, Derivatives, Leverage going from 12 to 1 and then becoming 30 to 1... Repeal of Glass-Stegall (which allowed the creation of "Too Big To Fail".. Allowing of loan rating agencies to be paid off by the companies and loans they rate. Allowing Pensions and 401K's into the CDS.. Thank God we didn't allow Social Security become privatized...Would have went the way of many people's pensions... How about paying 100% of the dollar to money owed to other banks on faulty loans.. Billions going to people who crashed these banks... The systematic takeover of these Banks by the CEO's and bypassing of the primary shareholders.. All these things were created by DEREGULATION...
Regulations are the life line of Capitalism.. Regulations come from the government... These regulations serve as the referee for the game.. Without a referee there are no rules. Without rules the richest become more powerful..
Hence have you noticed that since old ##%!-up Reagan came into office until 2009, Regulations have decreased and the disparity of income between middle and upper class has increased.. And in those 30 (minus 6 good years from Clinton where he increased regulation) the middle class has shrunk because people on a scale are becoming poorer... And as the middle class became poorer, the economy collapsed, and we are no longer the "best" economy...When the rich prosper, no one else does... Check the 1940's-1970's our best years, regulations increased, tax bracket for 250k+ was sky high. The middle class prospered, and the country prospered...
Totalitarianism with corporations in control of our lives is what I was getting at with the equation.... It isn't as simple as the equation specifies butttttttttttttttttttttttt I assume you would take it at face value.Originally Posted by JustScoreda100
You're blabbering. Just because you make a long argument doesn't make what you said correct.Your statement about Capitalism + no Socialism = totalitarianism shows how little you know about this subject. I doubt you even know what actual totalitarianism even is.Originally Posted by Essential1
Mhmm because everytime Government takes its hands off the economy and corporations with deregulation or lack there of in the first place we don't see a widespread economic downfall everytime.. Maybe not for the richest 20% but for the 80% that isn't making a sufficient amount they suffer. the Early 1900's 1920's 1980's, Late 1990's 2000's. Deregulation is the precursor for economic decline. Without Socialism or Government Intervention Capitalism fails.. And without a sense of Capitalism, Communism fails... Socialism your "danger word" is the thing that makes Capitalism from falling the way of communism on the other end of the spectrum.Originally Posted by JustScoreda100
Once again you speak while having absolutely no knowledge of the subject that you speak of. You must love making yourself look like an idiot.Originally Posted by Essential1
Originally Posted by cguy610
Originally Posted by Essential1
Wellllllllllllllll let's continue to trust Corporations because capitalism is the American way...
I know. What alot of these free market Repubs don't realize is that if many of these corporations weren't so greedy, this "expansion" of government wouldn't fly. The greedier these corporations get, the more people are going to look for the government to pick up the slack. (in healthcare, unemployment, social security, medicare, welfare, etc)
Capitalism + 0 Socialism = Totalitarian Government controlled by corporate bottom line watchers
Capitalism + Socialism = A manageable and highly successful system
Let me guess black people getting loans is the reason the economy collapsed...
Not shady CDS, Naked CDS, Derivatives, Leverage going from 12 to 1 and then becoming 30 to 1... Repeal of Glass-Stegall (which allowed the creation of "Too Big To Fail".. Allowing of loan rating agencies to be paid off by the companies and loans they rate. Allowing Pensions and 401K's into the CDS.. Thank God we didn't allow Social Security become privatized...Would have went the way of many people's pensions... How about paying 100% of the dollar to money owed to other banks on faulty loans.. Billions going to people who crashed these banks... The systematic takeover of these Banks by the CEO's and bypassing of the primary shareholders.. All these things were created by DEREGULATION...
Regulations are the life line of Capitalism.. Regulations come from the government... These regulations serve as the referee for the game.. Without a referee there are no rules. Without rules the richest become more powerful..
Hence have you noticed that since old ##%!-up Reagan came into office until 2009, Regulations have decreased and the disparity of income between middle and upper class has increased.. And in those 30 (minus 6 good years from Clinton where he increased regulation) the middle class has shrunk because people on a scale are becoming poorer... And as the middle class became poorer, the economy collapsed, and we are no longer the "best" economy...When the rich prosper, no one else does... Check the 1940's-1970's our best years, regulations increased, tax bracket for 250k+ was sky high. The middle class prospered, and the country prospered...
If anything the only problem with American capitalism is that there is no distinction between corporations and individuals. Campaign donations alone have enabled our countries politicians to be bought and sold by the corporations they are supposed to be watching. Instead of regulations that enforce competitive business practices and punish unlawful business activities, our government has instead (under the direction of these same corporate entities) been in the business of picking winners and losers.
The regulation that you speak does little to benefit the people who actually are effected by it. The only way something gets regulated now a days is if an industry is behind it and has a tremendous amount of money to gain (i.e health care).
If you actually look back at the causes of the most recent recession you would see that the actions of our government facilitated the economic downturn. Not only did they turn their backs on blatantly fraudulent activities, they actually encouraged and legislated it. And these are the same people you wish to give more authority and power over your everyday life?
The term you were looking for is corporatocracy. America hasn't been run as a capitalistic society in almost a century. America today resembles a corporatocracy more then it resembles capitalism.Originally Posted by Essential1
Totalitarianism with corporations in control of our lives is what I was getting at with the equation.... It isn't as simple as the equation specifies butttttttttttttttttttttttt I assume you would take it at face value.Originally Posted by JustScoreda100
You're blabbering. Just because you make a long argument doesn't make what you said correct.Your statement about Capitalism + no Socialism = totalitarianism shows how little you know about this subject. I doubt you even know what actual totalitarianism even is.Originally Posted by Essential1
Mhmm because everytime Government takes its hands off the economy and corporations with deregulation or lack there of in the first place we don't see a widespread economic downfall everytime.. Maybe not for the richest 20% but for the 80% that isn't making a sufficient amount they suffer. the Early 1900's 1920's 1980's, Late 1990's 2000's. Deregulation is the precursor for economic decline. Without Socialism or Government Intervention Capitalism fails.. And without a sense of Capitalism, Communism fails... Socialism your "danger word" is the thing that makes Capitalism from falling the way of communism on the other end of the spectrum.Originally Posted by JustScoreda100
Once again you speak while having absolutely no knowledge of the subject that you speak of. You must love making yourself look like an idiot.Originally Posted by Essential1
Originally Posted by cguy610
Originally Posted by Essential1
Wellllllllllllllll let's continue to trust Corporations because capitalism is the American way...
I know. What alot of these free market Repubs don't realize is that if many of these corporations weren't so greedy, this "expansion" of government wouldn't fly. The greedier these corporations get, the more people are going to look for the government to pick up the slack. (in healthcare, unemployment, social security, medicare, welfare, etc)
Capitalism + 0 Socialism = Totalitarian Government controlled by corporate bottom line watchers
Capitalism + Socialism = A manageable and highly successful system
Let me guess black people getting loans is the reason the economy collapsed...
Not shady CDS, Naked CDS, Derivatives, Leverage going from 12 to 1 and then becoming 30 to 1... Repeal of Glass-Stegall (which allowed the creation of "Too Big To Fail".. Allowing of loan rating agencies to be paid off by the companies and loans they rate. Allowing Pensions and 401K's into the CDS.. Thank God we didn't allow Social Security become privatized...Would have went the way of many people's pensions... How about paying 100% of the dollar to money owed to other banks on faulty loans.. Billions going to people who crashed these banks... The systematic takeover of these Banks by the CEO's and bypassing of the primary shareholders.. All these things were created by DEREGULATION...
Regulations are the life line of Capitalism.. Regulations come from the government... These regulations serve as the referee for the game.. Without a referee there are no rules. Without rules the richest become more powerful..
Hence have you noticed that since old ##%!-up Reagan came into office until 2009, Regulations have decreased and the disparity of income between middle and upper class has increased.. And in those 30 (minus 6 good years from Clinton where he increased regulation) the middle class has shrunk because people on a scale are becoming poorer... And as the middle class became poorer, the economy collapsed, and we are no longer the "best" economy...When the rich prosper, no one else does... Check the 1940's-1970's our best years, regulations increased, tax bracket for 250k+ was sky high. The middle class prospered, and the country prospered...
If anything the only problem with American capitalism is that there is no distinction between corporations and individuals. Campaign donations alone have enabled our countries politicians to be bought and sold by the corporations they are supposed to be watching. Instead of regulations that enforce competitive business practices and punish unlawful business activities, our government has instead (under the direction of these same corporate entities) been in the business of picking winners and losers.
The regulation that you speak does little to benefit the people who actually are effected by it. The only way something gets regulated now a days is if an industry is behind it and has a tremendous amount of money to gain (i.e health care).
If you actually look back at the causes of the most recent recession you would see that the actions of our government facilitated the economic downturn. Not only did they turn their backs on blatantly fraudulent activities, they actually encouraged and legislated it. And these are the same people you wish to give more authority and power over your everyday life?
100% agree with the campaign donations.. But where we would disagree is what would happen if those donations were to go away. When they do regulations it is not picking winner and losers it is to keep from the unlawful actions of which you speak.. But without that regulation you think the corporations will just do it themselves? That is dangerous territory.. You can go back to the late 1800's early 1900's to see how it works when there are few to no regulations.. There is no competition and regulation that is supposed to be enforced is ignored...
Somewhat agree with the industry being behind something
And the financial crisis was cause by the government either looking the other way OR deregulating the hell out of the financial sector. Pushed by CONSERVATIVE IDEOLOGY (yes Clinton did deregulation also but look who were the ones pushing him to it) AND YES I WOULD MUCH RATHER HAVE THE GOVERNMENT DO THEIR JOB THAN TRUST THE CORPORATION TO DO IT. Because I know where trusting the corporations leads to, and I know where trusting the government when they are adequately doing their jobs leads me... And my life is much better under the government... And the government has controlled our everyday lives to some capacity for decades, and you should be happy they do because you wouldn't make it out the front door if they didn't... Do we have to go back to the guy and the story of his day and all the government programs that help his everyday life?
Under the 2003 Medicare prescription drug program,companies that provide prescription drug benefits for retirees have been able to receive subsidies covering 28 percent of eligible costs. But they could deduct the entire amount they spent on these drug benefits – including the subsidies – from their taxable income.
The new law allows companies to only deduct the 72 percent they spent.
For those of you who do not understand. The Government was paying 28 percent of the prescription costs under the BUSH plan. There was a loophole which allowed ATT to deduct the ENTIRE cost of prescription drugs even though they did not pay the entire cost. THEY CLOSED A LOOPHOLE that business were exploiting. ATT still made a 12 Billion dollar profit.
/Discussion
accounting profits this loss they will be able to write off and use as a tax shelterOriginally Posted by JustScoreda100
Its 30 billion in revenue and 3 billion in profits. They just took a 33% hit to their profits.
As I said in the health care thread these corporations will not take a hit to their profit margins. This means they'll start scaling back certain aspects of your health care or drop it completely.
I think there might be a revolution in America soon, I've been thinking about and it wouldn't surprise me one bit.Originally Posted by Mangudai954
Originally Posted by Ouch my feet
Forget healthcare reform, the entire US is about to get reformed. Healthcare is just the tip, the US needs a lot of this blind eye crap to stop and get fixed. Businesses are going to try and push losses onto employees and employees are going to go ape.
Something's going to give and I doubt the little man (aka the hard working american) is going to take much more.
I agree.
Originally Posted by knightngale
Originally Posted by North Dade Represent
Basically, they were getting a tax deduction on spending money that wasn't theirs to begin with. It's like this - What if you wanted to donate to $400 to a charity, and the government said "Cool, that's a good idea, were going to give you another $100 to make the full donation $500." You shouldn't be able to claim a $500 dollar donation on your taxes, because in reality you only donated $400.
thanks for the explanation
Essential1 wrote:
Regulations are the life line of Capitalism.. Regulations come from the government... These regulations serve as the referee for the game.. Without a referee there are no rules. Without rules the richest become more powerful..
No, regulations are not the lifeline of capitalism. Intelligence is the lifeline of capitalism. And compassion is the lifeline for those who lack economic savvy. You ever played Monopoly? Has plenty of rules, and yet the rich always get richer and become more powerful. How is life any different from a painfully slow game of Monopoly w/billions of players and a huge board?
You argue that deregulation has caused every major financial crisis. Has it ever occurred to you that w/o regulation in the first place there would be no deregulation? And what would you say about the control that the Federal Reserve has over the global economy? Its relatively easy to build a case against the actions of the Fed over the past 20 years.
I agree that all large-scale economies need some degree of regulation. But I don't see a clear line of logic in your argument.
chozin87 wrote:
This bill is going to leave more people without health care IMO.
How? Who? When? Why? Is your opinion based on ANY facts, or just speculation?
Don't get fooled into thinking that every AT&T employee already has health insurance through their employer. Even if AT&T and most major employers were to cut their health insurance offerings, its unlikely that this would outweigh the insurance mandates coming in 2014.
Originally Posted by TacC4
Essential1 wrote:
Regulations are the life line of Capitalism.. Regulations come from the government... These regulations serve as the referee for the game.. Without a referee there are no rules. Without rules the richest become more powerful..
chozin87 wrote:
This bill is going to leave more people without health care IMO.
How? Who? When? Why? Is your opinion based on ANY facts, or just speculation?
Don't get fooled into thinking that every AT&T employee already has health insurance through their employer. Even if AT&T and most major employers were to cut their health insurance offerings, its unlikely that this would outweigh the insurance mandates coming in 2014.
My mother is likely going to lose her coverage as a result of this bill. The coverage she receives through her company as a retiree will either be dropped or become more expensive.
The biggest beneficiary of this bill is the insurance companies. People are going to be forced to buy insurance.