any vegetarians on NT?

[dgk3188]

i've kind of been venturing into Buddhism as well, and it's opened my eyes to many, many things. Showing love and compassion to all living things beingone of them.

 

[Methodical Management]

Originally Posted by dgk3188

Meth-

thanks for those words. i think that you just really helped me make that decision.

i've seen videos of how they treat those animals. plus i really want to start taking care of my health. i'll check out some of those recipes and blogs posted.

Namaste!

That's wonderful - you absolutely made my day right there.


If you ever have any other questions that I might be able to help with, please feel free to drop me a line via PM. I'm sure a lot of the other veg*anshere would be more than happy to do the same, given the encouraging number of helpful posts contributed to this thread thus far. It's really a wonderfultestament to the diversity of the community that we do have quite a few veg*ans here despite the number of leather and animal products in the footwear industryat present. (Even the NBA's still using leather balls thanks to Spalding's debacle a couple of years back..)

I'm hoping we can use some of that to make a push for more vegan-friendly athletic shoes. I'll be prodding a couple of industry friends when I'mout in Portland next weekend for sure. Most of the vegan footwear currently on the market serves the casual crowd - not my style, but I'm glad it exists. There's really very little for athletes and virtually nothing for basketball players. That needs to change.


I'd also suggest the following books if you're interested:

The Food Revolutionby John Robbins discusses the benefits of a plant based diet along a number of different dimensions, ethical, health, and environmental, while explaining thegreatest threats posed by current agribusiness practices. If I can only recommend one book to people curious about veganism and plant based diets, this is thetitle I'd suggest.

Thanking theMonkey by Karen Dawn is a rarity in that it's a highly accessible title designed for a broad audience that doesn't dumb down the subject matter. It's designed to be appealing to young people and it presents essential material in a very engaging way, so it's a title I strongly suggest foraudiences like this one. It's a great book for people to pass along and share with their friends, especially if they care about animals. In terms ofanimal rights, the author does advance some compromised positions, making certain allowances for when, she feels, it's okay to harm or exploit an animal,but those quibbles aside it's such a rare find given the breadth of its appeal that it's a very easy book to recommend. Its structure and format makesit very easy for anyone to pick up, read, and learn from.

In addition to the sites that have already been mentioned, here are a couple other recipe blogs of note:

http://letsgetsconed.blogspot.com/
http://dairyfreecooking.about.com/
http://blog.fatfreevegan.com/

If you like to travel, here are a few good sites with vegan restaurant guides:

http://www.vegguide.org/
http://www.happycow.net/
http://www.friendsofanima...aurant-guides/index.html

I have another question: I heard tofu is good for women, but bad for men? (something related to estrogen) Is this true?
There's a lot of misinformation and scare articles out there about soy and phytoestrogens, yet if you actually look at the research itdoesn't seem justified. I've mainly seen this argument come up on bodybuilding sites, and I think some men are just scared by the word"estrogen" and worry that they'll become impotent or grow breasts. (Though steroids are a much better way to acquire breasts - just ask MarkMcGwire, who practically lactated after each home run swing.)

Phytoestrogens occur naturally in many foods, mainly vegetables, fruits, and nuts. Among the highest concentrations may be found in soy and flax seeds (thoughnot flax seed oil), but they're also highly present in garlic, black beans, pistachios, coffee beans, and hops. Yet, for whatever reason, there isn't alot out there urging people to abandon coffee and beer.

The research is a mixed bag. Some studies highlight the antioxidant effects of phytoestrogens, others attempt to downplay it. Some have found thatphytoestrogens reduced the risk of lung and prostate cancers, others indicated a potential breast cancer risk for women. Certain phytoestrogens, like flaxseeds, can actually serve as estrogen blockers since they're able to bind to estrogen receptors without stimulating them. So, you can't lump allphytoestrogens into the same category.

There is some cause for mild concern related to soy, but at this point it doesn't seem conclusive. Some of the claims are just so speciously supported thatyou really have to question the researcher's competence. The implication, for example, that simply because soy was introduced to the west roughly 50 yearsago and sperm counts have decreased over the same period is akin to the textbook example of reasoning that ice cream sales are positively correlated withhomicide and, thus, eliminating ice cream will reduce the murder rate. Exposure to pesticides, for example, could certainly serve as an intervening factor inthat relationship - as could exposure to electromagnetic radiation for all we know.

A valid concern, though, is that many vegetarian products, like soy protein isolate, involve unnatural concentrations. I avoid soy protein isolate anyway,since they're often processed with hexane, and prefer hemp seed protein as a supplement as mentioned earlier. There are plenty of alternative proteinsources out there for those who wish to minimize or avoid soy entirely.

The objection to soy, however overblown, is nonetheless an important one in that, like the meat and dairy industries, the soy industry has exerted an enormousinfluence and has taken on an unhealthy centrality within many diets. It's been sold as as a perfect food - and in truth NO food is perfect. We all need toeat a varied diet and, unfortunately, it's been the case that soy has been positioned as one of the only accessible sources of convenient, high proteinfoods for vegetarians in the US. There's soy milk, tofu, tempeh, soy protein isolate, textured vegetable protein, and that's essentially served as areplacement for meat and dairy products for many vegetarians. I would agree that living on soy alone is far from ideal.

I recently met someone at the WWF, after I was invited to their world headquarters following our recent donation to their Amur Leopard Conservation Society,who was very much sympathetic to the cause of animal rights, obviously, and knew many people who were vegetarian and vegan - but felt she could never sustainthat lifestyle since she's allergic to soy. Given the way soy has been marketed, it's easy to understand why so many people think soy is central tothe vegan diet, but that need not be so and, for many of us, it's only one of many different protein sources.

The truth is that anyone can enjoy a healthy, plant-based diet without soy if they so choose. The problem, though, is that so many of the commercial productsmarketed to veg*ans right now include soy. Instead of the every popular soy milk, though, you could just as easily enjoy rice or almond milk. You can getplenty of protein without tofu and tempeh, and several people have posted lists of vegan protein sources so far in demonstration of that point.

Honestly, especially given the state of factory farming, I think it's far healthier to enjoy soy protein three days a week than chicken and, certainly,beef. The truly sad outcome of soy skepticism is that it's actually scaring people toward far unhealthier animal-based alternatives.

 

[sickwitit]

Been a vegetarian my whole life. Don't eat eggs either. I've had beef before and that #*%! is not poppin. I do consume diary products on the regularthough (cheese, milk, ice cream, etc.)

People think being vegetarian is hard but it's actually extremely easy for me. I guess it's cause I'm used to it. Also, I'm Indian and a greatnumber of Indians are vegetarians. So we basically have thousands of different vegetarian Indian dishes.

I don't know how people can be vegan though, that'd be extremely hard. And eating raw veggies is just

to me.

 

[49ers650]

I've looked into the idea after viewing a lot of films on the abuse, however it usually lasts a day. For one, I am pretty light so maintaining the weight Ihave would be difficult. Second, I'm somewhat lactose intolerant, so the variety of food just doesn't meet what I'm looking for. Either way,I'll definitely check out those books Method Man posted.

 

[airjordanjack]

I've been a vegetarian since I was probably 6. I just don't like the taste of meat. I don't eat any seafood or anything.

 

[lurkin2long]

Originally Posted by airjordanjack

I've been a vegetarian since I was probably 6. I just don't like the taste of meat. I don't eat any seafood or anything.

thats like insane to me.

 

[chi ill]

Originally Posted by lurkin2long

Originally Posted by airjordanjack

I've been a vegetarian since I was probably 6. I just don't like the taste of meat. I don't eat any seafood or anything.

thats like insane to me.

I'm the same way .

Except I never ate it , even when I was a baby .

None of that little meat in the can , I always spit it out .

Meat is JUST NOT good to me ... it's nasty ...

I don't like the way it tastes at allll .

 

[ducktailsxaintxi]

Originally Posted by imrichboy

never will be vegetarian. i love meat too much.

(pause)






J/K But could never be a vegetarian, need chicken/beef IMO

 

[alchemiss]

I'm near the end of my transition from eating meat to going vegetarian. I can't even explain how much more energy I have. I've cut out fast food,pizza, soda, etc completely and just cook at home. My favorite (easy) thing to make is quinoa. You can put just about anything you want with it. What I do issauté some veggies (broccoli, carrots, peppers usually) with some spices while the quinoa is cooking.. Then I throw it all together, squeeze a lemon in it andput in some feta (goats cheese is better for you, but I hate the taste =/ ) Anyone who is considering taking meat out of their diet, I definitely suggest to atleast try.. The combination of cutting out meat and unhealthy foods with cardio work is amazingg

 

[36 ounces]

Good post...I will never become a vegan, but this has made it a little more easier to abstain from meat.

 

[solewoman]

i only eat chicken and turkey

 

[stoneyjax]

Originally Posted by lurkin2long

Originally Posted by airjordanjack

I've been a vegetarian since I was probably 6. I just don't like the taste of meat. I don't eat any seafood or anything.

thats like insane to me.

yea me too... i think the most i could out would be red meats... but never turkey, chicken, eggs.

 

[dgk3188]

such great info in here.

thanks guys!

 

[Methodical Management]

I've looked into the idea after viewing a lot of films on the abuse, however it usually lasts a day. For one, I am pretty light so maintaining the weight I have would be difficult. Second, I'm somewhat lactose intolerant, so the variety of food just doesn't meet what I'm looking for. Either way, I'll definitely check out those books Method Man posted.
As far as maintaining weight is concerned, that's not even a concern when your diet is properly planned. Unfortunately, some people don'tdo the necessary research prior to changing their diets and wind up lacking in crucial areas as a result. All it takes is a little effort and planning upfront to make sure you're giving your body everything it needs. B12, for example, is easy to include in your diet either as a supplement or via vitaminenriched products like most soy milks.

Look at it as an opportunity. Most people never plan their diets and just get by on whatever's available or whatever they feel like eating on anyparticular day - and the only thing guaranteed to be slim as a result are their odds of so haphazardly assembling a well balanced diet. When you build yourdiet from the ground up, you have the chance to not only address ethical and environmental concerns, but tailor an amazingly healthy diet to your individualneeds and desires. Have you always wanted to add lean mass? Why not do both at once? Eliminate the negative food choices you've made in the past andreplace them with healthier and more positive selections. Rather than only eating one or two large meals a day, schedule smaller meals 5-6 times a day -it's better for your metabolism.


As a vegan, I don't eat any dairy products and my diet isn't lacking in variety or nutrition. I've had no problem building lean muscle while veganand it's easy to maintain a diet remarkably low in saturated fat. All vegan diets, by definition, are cholestorol free. There are a ton of vegancookbooks out there and more and more vegan friendly restaurants and prepared foods are appearing around the country and around the world. I gave up most ofmy favorite foods when I became vegan and I honestly don't miss them at all.

I know a few people who feel that they could go vegetarian, but could never become vegan as they can't imagine giving up cheese and dairy. Unfortunately,the image many people have of the diary industry ("happy cows come from California" etc.) is woefully discordant with reality. Even organic milkproduction typically involves the routine artificial insemination of dairy cows, who are forcibly separated from their calves shortly after birth. Male calvesoften become veal. Mother cows can be heard bellowing for days after their babies are taken from them.

In terms of nutrition, you actually get more calcium from collard greens than milk. If anyone's interested, here's a link summarizing health concernsrelated to dairy products: http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/dairy.html

 

[49ers650]

Appreciate the information, Method Man. Thanks.

 

[aplx2]

I don't think I can go vegan, but I want to go vegetarian though. I think the transition to vegan should be easier if I go vegetarian.

 

[sun of knowledge]

I been a vegetarian for 6 years now i dont eat fish either... ill never go back to eating meat

 

[freshhh]

vegetarian

i started out as pescatarian about two months ago.
then i decided to go straight vegetarian a couple weeks ago.
But i dont drink milk, eat (much) cheese, or ice cream.

Honestly i dont give a @#%! about the animals, its just gross to me thinking about what it is now.

it wasnt that hard, i slowly cut meat out, (once a day, once a week) and shrimp was the only meat left and i decided to cut it.

i feel ALOT better now a days, startin to slowly lose weight and im not embarrassed at all to say im vegetarian.
the usual reaction i get is

x youre lyin

. or that sucks

 

[exile on ivy st]

This whole "be a vegetarian/vegan, you''ll live longer" thing is BS. Of course it's been proven that vegetarians are more likely tolive longer because vegetarians are more likely to eat more fruits and vegetables and get the vitamins they need. Meat has nothing to do with it. My parentseat steak 3 times a week but also consume just as many fruits/vegetables as any vegan out there.

 

[tmukg21]

Originally Posted by freshhh


the usual reaction i get is

x youre lyin

. or that sucks

 

[gordon gekko 979]

for method man and other, do you guys think it's best to slowly cut meat from your lifestyle or go straight cold turkey with it? i could see pros for both.

 

[sun of knowledge]

for method man and other, do you guys think it's best to slowly cut meat from your lifestyle or go straight cold turkey with it? i could see pros for both.



i would say to do it in doses. I never liked sea food... i stopped eating pork in 99.. then in 02 I gave up beef. Then 03 i gave up poultry.. once i stoppedeating an animal i never had urges to go back. Honestly the site and smell of meat, seafood, poultry, pork etc is digesting to me now. I always questioned whyam I really eat meat when i used to eat it so i was never 100% comfortable eating it. So I lost the desire to eat it eventually then it evolved to somethingspiritual.. but thats a whole other topic

 

[Methodical Management]

for method man and other, do you guys think it's best to slowly cut meat from your lifestyle or go straight cold turkey with it? i could see pros for both.
I think that really depends on the person. Some people prefer to gradually ease their way into a swimming pool (or the dreaded cold tub in atraining room), others would rather dive right in and get it over with. Some personalities would be less likely to stick with it if they proceed cautiouslyand gradually, as that sort of slow transition allows for plenty of rationalization and back sliding. ("Well, I'm still eating fish this month, soONE serving of chicken won't be so bad," etc.) Compromise begets compromise. On the other side of the coin, there are those who might adopt an allor nothing mentality and decide after their first week that it's just not "for them" and revert entirely to their old habits.

Healthcare professionals tend to recommend a conservative, gradual approach. That way people can allow themselves, and their bodies, a chance to adjust.

As I mentioned earlier, my adjustment period basically entailed research and food sampling over the course of perhaps 2 weeks. Once I determined that 1) Icould be as healthy or healthier on a vegan diet and 2) that I could tolerate enough meal options to get started - animal products had nothing left to offerme. It was simply a matter, from there, of eliminating existing stores (whey protein, etc.) and learning about the "hidden" animal products invarious foods. (Many sugars, for example, are processed using bone char filters.)

That worked for me, but, as has become increasingly apparent to me over the years, I don't resemble the "average" person all that closely. Ifyou're someone who has no history of dietary problems, if you've thoroughly researched and planned it, you have a very strong, internally driven, senseof motivation and willpower, then a "cold turkey" approach may work for you and, obviously, that's the most direct route. You may wish to talkto a doctor before any major dietary change and those who opt to take the more gradual route should feel confident that each step they take serves, if not toimprove their own health, then to improve the health of our planet and, obviously, toward reducing the number of beings slaughtered for human consumption.

Becoming vegan doesn't free one from responsibility or, even, complicity in the system of animal cruelty and exploitation (after all, our taxes subsidizefactory farming and cattle bred for slaughter are permitted to graze on over 260 million acres of public land), but it is truly liberating to free yourselffrom the consumption of animal products. Eating meat is something many people only feel comfortable with by dint of willful ignorance. They don't know,and don't want to know, how their meat, their milk, or, even, their sneakers are manufactured. We don't have to blindly accept predation as our"natural" behavior. You do have a choice and it is only by educating ourselves that we're able to exercise that choice.

This whole "be a vegetarian/vegan, you''ll live longer" thing is BS. Of course it's been proven that vegetarians are more likely to live longer because vegetarians are more likely to eat more fruits and vegetables and get the vitamins they need. Meat has nothing to do with it. My parents eat steak 3 times a week but also consume just as many fruits/vegetables as any vegan out there.
Obviously we're dealing with complex correlations here. A 1970 British cohort study found a strong correlation between high childhood IQs andvegetarianism in adulthood. That are a LOT of reasons why one should not conclude, from that, that vegetarians are "smarter" than omnivores - notthe least of which being the use of the IQ test itself as a measure of cognitive ability. That said, those who claim that veg*an diets are unhealthy would find those plenty of evidence to contradict their prejudices in the sorts of longitudinal health studies that tendto correlate vegetarian and vegan diets with long lives. "Health" is a pretty broad, if ambiguous, quality. Yet regardless of whether we definehealth in terms of quantity (years of life) or quality (susceptibility to disease and injury,) many studies reflect positively on veg*an diets. Certainly,it's entirely possible that someone can live a long, healthy life on an omnivorous diet. Our ancestors may not have eaten meat for as long as our kindhave eaten plants, (and arguably we're better suited for plant consumption) but human beings have, quite obviously, ingested meat for thousands of yearsnow, though certainly never to the extent present in many human diets today.

The claim that fruit/vegetable consumption could act as an intervening factor in many of these long term dietary studies is not without merit. Most of us arewell familiar with the many health benefits of various fruits, vegetables, and legumes. There is, however, still a large and growing body of research outthere that should be of concern to those who choose to eat red meat. One such study found that women who eat red meat daily incur a 250% greater risk of coloncancer than those who eat it less than once per month. Those who eat red meat once a week are still 38% more likely to be diagnosed with colon cancer thanthose who refrain from consuming red meat entirely. (Poultry consumption, too, has been correlated with increased risk of colon cancer.) The Washington Postrecently ran a cover story regarding the health risks associated with daily red meat consumption though, I would hope, few people eat red meat that frequently: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/23/AR2009032301626.html Vegetarians are, on average, half as likely to die from heart disease than omnivores. Vegetarians also have, on average, significantly lower blood pressurethan omnivores (112/69 compared to 121/77.) I don't think all of this can be written off solely as a product of the protective effects/health benefits ofvegetables and fruits.

I'm not interested in scare tactics. I won't sit here and say that you'll die of congestive heart failure if you eat grass-fed beef once a week. Most of my friends eat red meat. Most of my family members eat red meat. That's their preference and, obviously, it's not one I share for manyreasons. My point is simply that plant-based diets are quite healthy and the perception that vegans are all sickly is just an ill-formed stereotype. Ourdietary requirements are chemical. Our bodies don't particularly care whether our protein is grown in a garden, an animal, or a test tube. A cannibalcould potentially live a long life just as it's possible for a strict vegetarian or vegan to die of cancer or suffer from obesity.

The point, here, is that, for many of us, a well-planned vegan lifestyle is a very healthy way to live in better alignment with our ideals. Beyond ethicalimplications, plant-based diets are also far more environmentally sustainable, both in terms of energy efficiency and in terms of reducing pollutants and therisk of disease. So, it's something I hope people regard with an open mind and, if they choose to learn more about it or, better still, effect a reductionin their own consumption of animal products, I would prefer that their motivations be positive rather than negative.

I understand some of the backlash. People feel attacked and threatened and, sometimes, it's certainly true that people can be disrespectful and make agood point in a bad way. Let's say you're walking down the street one afternoon and someone offers to let you try a pair of new basketball shoes,promising you that they'll be the most comfortable shoes you've ever played in. Perhaps you'd try them; perhaps you wouldn't. Consumerculture has made cynics of virtually all of us. If, however, that same person tried to make their pitch by pointing at the shoes you already have and saying"hey, I can't believe you're wearing that garbage. You'd better get these new shoes or you'll blow out your MCL, suffer an infectionfollowing surgery, and die," odds are you'll not only turn down their offer to try the product, but you'll have a very negative perception of itand them from that point forward.

Personally, I feel you don't need to shame or guilt people - because I honestly don't think most people would condone the needless infliction ofcruelty and suffering on animals, no matter how low their opinion of animals or how high their opinion of humans. Sensationalism isn't necessary, as thefacts tend to suffice. It's just a matter of people being open, learning as much as they can, and then making an informed decision.

I don't think it really needs a hard sell, to be honest, and if people would only try it for even a couple of weeks just to see how it makes them feel Ihonestly think more people would reduce their intake of meat and dairy products.

 

[lrrr]

All of these are made from animals.
First few are biggies:
- Tires : You cannot drive a vehicle, ride a bus or a bike. No transportation except walking (horses are forbidden) . And no walking on asphalt or concrete,they contain animal products. Anti- freeze, brake fluid and oil also contains animal products.
- Plastic: Several fatty acids from animals are key ingredients in plastic. No combs to untangle your greasy hair. Your B-12 and other supplements come inplastic bottles ( read more to find out about those vitamins and supplements) , so you can' t take them. No using those little plastic produce bags at thegrocery store for your veg. \
- Tooth paste and mouth wash: Cows provide a substance called glycerin that helps to fight dental plaque. The tooth brush is also mostly plastic.\\
- Medicine: 350 modern pharm aceuticals are made from animal products. Anything in a gel cap contains gelatin which is made from animals. Cortisone and insulin(the synthetic stuff is very expensive and hard to get) too.
Also, Latex surgical gloves contain tallow, x- ray film contains gelatin.
- Perfume/ cologne/ deodorant: made from whales, deer or beaver. No synthetic has ever been made to match the natural animal $*+%. So you' ll have to keepsmelling like a cheap *+$$# with BO.
-Wax paper , cellophane , cardboard and paper containers your processed foods come in is all made from animals.
- White sugar : purified bone ash is used to refine sugar .
- Your house or apartment: paint , wallpaper, linoleum, carpet, plywood, drywall, insulation all made from animal products, ceramic tile.
- Furniture: foam rubber contains egg whites, wood glue contains animal products.
- Laundry detergents , fabric softeners, disinfectants, house hold cleaners and polishes. You have to live a filthy life in filthy rags.
- Sunscreens , soaps , shampoos, cosmetics: all contain animal products. Lotion and makeup contain lanol in which comes from sheep' s wool.
- Vitamins and mineral supplements: which ever vegan requires are also derived from animals.
- Fire extinguishers: use animals products.
- Electrical devices: Electrical circuitry is made from animal products. Your printers ink and/ or toner is also made from animal products.

 

[quik1987]

^ I think the point is to make a step in a positive direction rather than to eliminate all negative factors. Life can't be perfect.

Meth, do you try to eat organically as well? I'm all for living healthy, but as a university student without an abundance of time, I'd find itdifficult to eat in such a way. Especially if you eat organically as well, your options would be drastically limited.