2013-2014 NBA Thread - IND @ WAS and OKC @ LAC on ESPN

[osh kosh bosh]

Dirk is a legend and great, but I've started to see some silly comparisons with him included. People trying to argue him on the same plane as Kobe in overall career. Hell in any facet you want to chalk it up, that's crazy. Shotout to his elite scoring, but let's not forget he doesnt play defense. I don't think he gets as much flack as a guy like Harden does for not playing defense. He gets hidden by his defense a lot. Just like Steve Nash did back in the day. A.I., etc.

Something that people don't understand about NBA defense.

Dirk is SEVEN FEET TALL.

Dirk, once they got rid of Don Nelson. was a solid defender who rarely missed rotations, and positioned him correctly withing his coaches scheme, and the fact that he was, SEVEN FEET TALL is a is a useful deterrent to scoring.

9th, 11th, 5th, 9th, 17th, 12th, 8th, 8th

Those are the defensive rankings of Dallas, through Avery Johnson and carlisle always above average boarding on top 10, and through that time the defense was 2 points better with him on the court.


He is nothing like Harden, or Nash and I certainly would not say that Kobe's defensive impact is any greater than Dirk's has been over the course of their careers when you factor in positional value.

 

[bonafide hustla]

Something that people don't understand about NBA defense.

Dirk is SEVEN FEET TALL.

Dirk, once they got rid of Don Nelson. was a solid defender who rarely missed rotations, and positioned him correctly withing his coaches scheme, and the fact that he was, SEVEN FEET TALL is a is a useful deterrent to scoring.

9th, 11th, 5th, 9th, 17th, 12th, 8th, 8th

Those are the defensive rankings of Dallas, through Avery Johnson and carlisle always above average boarding on top 10, and through that time the defense was 2 points better with him on the court.


He is nothing like Harden, or Nash and I certainly would not say that Kobe's defensive impact is any greater than Dirk's has been over the course of their careers when you factor in positional value.

lmao, aight

 

[addict4sneakers]

i wish i could have been there when dirk and holger thought of the one legged fade away.

that's pure genius

 

[coldcity]

Can you put that huge article in a spoiler Rac? Great read but it's really really long and would prefer to not have to scroll so far when I'm done.

Its relatively short.... I mean, with my mouse wheel it took 4 full spins to get thru the article......

i counted 5 spins...

 

[awwsome]

Jesus Dirk from Canada Brah?

 

[proshares]

when you factor in positional value.

I'm sure everyone just read the line about Kobe and ******* freaked out instead of reading the entire thing

 

[awwsome]

I'm sure everyone just read the line about Kobe and ******* freaked out instead of reading the entire thing

That's a silly argument, big men are always going to have more value on defense than a 2 guard no matter how good he is. That doesn't mean that Dirk is an effective man to man defender. It's still to compare a 4 to a 2 in the first place.

 

[do work son]

Can you put that huge article in a spoiler Rac? Great read but it's really really long and would prefer to not have to scroll so far when I'm done.

Its relatively short.... I mean, with my mouse wheel it took 4 full spins to get thru the article......

C'mon man. Chase Budinger would've used a spoiler. Took forever to scroll through on my phone.

 

[Bert.]

[thread="571782"]<img alt="" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="909780" data-type="61" src="http://niketalk.com/content/type/61/id/909780/width/500/height/1000/flags/LL" style="; width: 500px; height: 216px">


Julius F. Wrek
[/thread]

why bring this up again?

anyone who has actually watched REAL basketball and PLAYED in league would know it was 100% clean and the right call.

stop the tom foolery brahs

 

[sea manup]

 

I'm sure everyone just read the line about Kobe and ******* freaked out instead of reading the entire thing

That's a silly argument, big men are always going to have more value on defense than a 2 guard no matter how good he is. That doesn't mean that Dirk is an effective man to man defender. It's still to compare a 4 to a 2 in the first place.

its like how only one person in the world would think mario chalmers is a better passer than marc gasol or noah but he naturally gets more assists because he plays PG and not C

80% of the people around dirk's height can have the same defensive impact as dirk does, cant say that about kobe. dudes turned around playoff series because of his defense 

 

[osh kosh bosh]

That's a silly argument, big men are always going to have more value on defense than a 2 guard no matter how good he is. That doesn't mean that Dirk is an effective man to man defender. It's still to compare a 4 to a 2 in the first place.

Dirk in his prime was an effective above average defender period.


Let me put it to you like this.

John Olerud is one of the greatest defensive 1st baseman of all time, and if you add up all the plays he made he was about as valuable in terms of total runs saved as an average fielding 3rd baseman.


Ultimately even if I agree that Kobe is an elite defender at the 2 guard position (I don't) that doesn't add up to an solid to above average big man defender.


Really I don't think a perimeter player should never, EVER win DPOY.

 

[awwsome]

It's still a silly argument to compare a 2's defensive impact to a 4's as your defense for Dirk defensively no matter how you put it.

 

[sea manup]

ignoring the offensive end of the game, there are a lot of teams whos defense would improve if you put prime kobe in the lineup. he's a better defender than 90% of other sgs

most teams would not get better defensively when you put dirk in the lineup because most teams already have someone that defends as well as dirk does

in comparison to his peers, kobe is a way better defender than dirk is. its really not even worth talking about. you can have dirk on your team, cool but you still need people to guard wing players and very few people can do that as well as kobe did. you have kobe on your team, cool you still need post defenders and there are a lot of guys who can defend the post (including rotations and help defense) as well or better than dirk

 

[mrnappy]

so

true bro

 

[mrnappy]

He hasn't been a bad defender for a long time... Just average. He's far, far from the likes of Nash or Harden.

true i love my rockets but i just

at harden

 

[mrnappy]

 
ignoring the offensive end of the game, there are a lot of teams whos defense would improve if you put prime kobe in the lineup. he's a better defender than 90% of other sgs

not true Thabo Sefolosha is the best defender

 

[osh kosh bosh]

ignoring the offensive end of the game, there are a lot of teams whos defense would improve if you put prime kobe in the lineup. he's a better defender than 90% of other sgs

most teams would not get better defensively when you put dirk in the lineup because most teams already have someone that defends as well as dirk does


in comparison to his peers, kobe is a way better defender than dirk is. its really not even worth talking about. you can have dirk on your team, cool but you still need people to guard wing players and very few people can do that as well as kobe did. you have kobe on your team, cool you still need post defenders and there are a lot of guys who can defend the post (including rotations and help defense) as well or better than dirk

I don't want to start a Kobe thing, so I'll I just say don't agree at all with your characterization of Kobe defense, IMO you are what you consistently do.

and I think a smart 7 footer, who is consistent and reliable to make rotations is more valuable than am above average wing defender.

 

[imsneakerpimp]

It's funny...
Same people complaining about the Lebron foul being brought back up...
Are the same ones bringing it back up 5 hours later every time to get in the last word...
Sounds personal, cats wanting to get the last word to prove their genius...
And look, dammit, I just brought it up again...
Lol, my bad

 

[dman14]

i dont care if it was the "big 3" first yr together, dirk stood up to them and punched them in the face
had lebron all shook in the series

 

[C.Magneto]

Gonna rustle some Jimmies with this, but If I'm starting a team I take Dirk over Kobe

 

[grandtheftbike]

Gonna rustle some Jimmies with this, but If I'm starting a team I take Dirk over Kobe

 

[Bert.]

Gonna rustle some Jimmies with this, but If I'm starting a team I take Dirk over Kobe

good luck with dat team brah

 

[kal-el-8]

 

[awwsome]

Andre Igoudala getting paid close to 13 million playing below league average levels though.


Not looking like such a great pick up for the Warriors now.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Andre Igoudala getting paid close to 13 million playing below league average levels though.


Not looking like such a great pick up for the Warriors now.

except for the whole elite defense ball handling and passing thing.

but sure not a great pick up.