why is it such a sin to say anyone will be better than Michael Jordan?

[3900stabler]

dude said pippen = dwade and another guy said jordan had a declining rodman...

declining rodman that STILL led the league in rebounding during the 3peat..declining rodman that was out hustling ANYBODY on the court..dont sell him short cause he aint score points...dude DOMINATED the boards..pip = dwade, 

 foh..






i dont got a horse in the fight...but its really funny to see people downplay how good rodman and pippen were, and in the same breathe say bron and kob had stacked teams..lol..


i see one common theme...all 3 needed help of another SUPERSTAR to win...and if you dont think pippen was a superstar ill just assume you were born in the 90s, and i wont judge you.  pippen is better than ANY player  bron or kobe played with (no shaq).  

I don't know why Jordan fans are unwilling to accept the fact Mike had help. When Jordan retired the first time that team lead by Pippen won over 50 games and made it to the ECF if my memory is correct. Jordan fans love undermining his talent to accentuate the titles he won. Anybody on this board say they would take LBJ supporting cast over Jordan's cast is a liar. Mike had a head coach that won championships before Mike during Mike and after Mike. Jordan second option was top 50 player all-time. Jordan had one of the best Euros in the league at the time in Kukoc. He always one of the best if not the best shooters in league with Kerr, Paxon, Hodges, Armstrong. Let me ask yall this, Game 7 and you had to choose Bosh or Rodman, who ya takin?

 

[duba169]

NIKE and ESPN also plays a role conditioning us to believe he is the greatest.

Yeah and Nike and espn are doing their best job at keeping lebron down

If only Nike and espn hyped up lebron!

 

[3900stabler]

The game was mentally challenging when mike played. People would hurt you. If you went into the paint you were going to get hit hard and you would not want to go back in. If you do that today, you will get a flagrant 2 and suspended.

People are too friendly these days. There isnt the same chippiness and competitive nature. Do you really think if lebron played during the 80s and 90s he would get that many easy lay ups? He would be mauled.

That was one of the biggest challenges MJ faced on his path to greatness - being abused by the Pistons and later the Knicks. This was physical but its also mental. The fear of going into the paint. It forces you to be a jump shooter.

Lebron is a great player and will be one of the greats just based on his stats and his ability to dominate a game.

If Jordan played today he would mentally decimate every player that guarded him except maybe kobe.

In my eyes, basketball greatness is based on 3 things - mental toughness, stats, and sadly rings. Right now Lebron doesn't measure up to Mr.Jordan and due to how soft this league has become, he never will.

Sounds like something Skip Bayless would say. But in all seriouness, no question the game was more physical back then. However, today's athletes are bigger, faster and stronger. Technlogy has improved and so how the amount of research and attention focused on defense. In today's game you can play zone You think the C's would have let Mike drop 63 if they had the option of playing zone? Implicitly in my previous statement doesn't it make reaching the pinnacle of winning a title more difficult.

 

[3900stabler]

Jordan was more skilled than players before him and tries harder than most of the superstars today.

Tries harder tha most superstars today. What metric would I use to determine if someone is "trying harder" than someone else. You actually believe Jordan tried harder than Barkley to win the title in 93? Talent is was separated the two; not "trying harder". Have we as sports fans been dumbed down that much? Yall gotta turn off ESPN.

 

[3900stabler]

Debating Wade and Pip now? Not close, Wade's a much better overall player.

I'd take Wade and Bosh before any other players Jordan played with.

I'd take Shaq before Wade & Bosh tho.

The only thing Wade is better at than Pippen is getting to the rim and doin some sucka ish the media never holds him accountble for.

 

[mez 0ne]

NT is so clueless at times.

 

[devildog1776]

NT is so clueless at times.

you aint never lie

 

[utvol23]

Jordan played in a watered down league check out this video this dude breaks it down perfectly:

This guy is just loud and obnoxious and saying MJ wouldnt start on the Miami roster today is beyond absurd he has to be talking about Jordan at age 50 right and not jordan in his prime esp b/w 92-95.

Jordan came back at age 39 and lead the wizards in scoring with over 20 points a game, but somehow the game has drastically changed in the last 10 yrs all the top in todays game ie Kobe and Lebron were already playing or entering the league when MJ was still avg over 20 at age 39 unless those players have substantially changed talent wise or physically in the past 10 years his BREAK Down doesnt make any sense.

Not sure why I am even commenting on this video.

 

[acbboyz84]

Yeah and Nike and espn are doing their best job at keeping lebron down

If only Nike and espn hyped up lebron!

Lol the sarcasm went over my head for a second

What you did i see lol

 

[permatez]

Wizards mj was the real goat.

 

[whywesteppin]

btw, if MJ would've won with the wizards or if Iverson would've won in 2001, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[whywesteppin]

yuku'd

 

[ricky409]

I don't know why Jordan fans are unwilling to accept the fact Mike had help. When Jordan retired the first time that team lead by Pippen won over 50 games and made it to the ECF if my memory is correct. Jordan fans love undermining his talent to accentuate the titles he won. Anybody on this board say they would take LBJ supporting cast over Jordan's cast is a liar. Mike had a head coach that won championships before Mike during Mike and after Mike. Jordan second option was top 50 player all-time. Jordan had one of the best Euros in the league at the time in Kukoc. He always one of the best if not the best shooters in league with Kerr, Paxon, Hodges, Armstrong. Let me ask yall this, Game 7 and you had to choose Bosh or Rodman, who ya takin?

just seen rodmans stats.

:x :x

 

[rook]

So many people already said so many valid points already.

Resumes just don't add up, consistency of being clutch, post season dominance, being the for your team, never losing in the NBA Finals and being so dominate on both ends of the floor.



Never losing in the finals huh? With that logic Drew Brees> Brady and P. Manning. Never understood that argument. How many of yall thought that 06-07 Cavs was going to beat the Spurs? Outside of Cleveland nobody gave that team a legitimate shot at beating the Spurs. To me, taking that team to the finals was more adds to his legacy. Hell Kobe played with Caron Butler and Lamar Odom and couldn't make a deep playoff run. Name me one elite player that won a title when his second best player was equaled to Larry Hughes? Damon Jones was on that team and played in China a year or so later. Sasha Pavlovic got traded to Minnesota I believe and couldn't get off the bench.

Very well post. Props.

 

[shoeking2101]

The only thing Wade is better at than Pippen is getting to the rim and doin some sucka ish the media never holds him accountble for.

Lol I swear man..

 

[shoeking2101]

Lebron is not better than Jordan and he is in his prime. Lebron is 28. This is how old Kobe was in 2006-2007. Kobe's athleticism started regressing after that season.

It is safe to say that Lebron will not get much better than he is right now. He is at his peak and it is not good enough to best MJ's peak.

When you consider that Wade is also regressing and Lebron's role player are old as hell, it is also unlikely that he will match MJ in terms of rings.

Lebron has improved every year for the past 3 years. You have no idea whether or not he won't get much better than that in fact, all signs point to him getting better than that.

He's only 28 and is on top of the NBA. His team is on top of the NBA. Who knows how many rings they'll reel off. When Michael won his first ring around the same age Lebron did, no one in their right mind thought he was going to win 6. Especially considering that for much of his time prior to that first ring, Jordan was considered a guy who could fill it up and fail or fall short come playoff time. As far as Championships and team success goes, who knows where the Heat will end up.

But from my perspective, team success is only a factor, not the factor in determining who's a better player. Too many factors that play a part in team success to value that as the ultimate factor. It can be argued that Lebron is becoming (if not has already become) a better playmaker, more efficient scorer, and versatile defender who's playing against players who are far more talented than the players Jordan played with and against.

 

[ill steelo]

Because its engrained in our heads that mj is the best and honestly up until now that holds up to be true

NIKE and ESPN also plays a role conditioning us to believe he is the greatest.

Eh. You're talking about the most prolific playoff performer in the history of the game here.

You strip away the marketing & you're left with a guy who gave you 34/6/6 on 50% shooting on the first 3 peat. 31/6/4 on 46% on the next 3 peat, winning finals MVP on ALL 6 runs & having several memorable performances along the way.

Nobody since the merger has been THAT dominant for THAT long. He had the league in a stranglehold for more than half of a decade g.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Because its engrained in our heads that mj is the best and honestly up until now that holds up to be true

NIKE and ESPN also plays a role conditioning us to believe he is the greatest.

Eh. You're talking about the most prolific playoff performer in the history of the game here.

You strip away the marketing & you're left with a guy who gave you 34/6/6 on 50% shooting on the first 3 peat. 31/6/4 on 46% on the next 3 peat, winning finals MVP on ALL 6 runs & having several memorable performances along the way.

Nobody since the merger has been THAT dominant for THAT long. He had the league in a stranglehold for more than half of a decade g.

Maybe the best post in this thread.

Clear point and objective facts to back it up. Repped.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Is there a difference between who's better and who is more talented?

 

[darthska]

^ Absolutely. The failure to understand that lies at the center of so many of these opinions.

James White is a more talented athlete than Jason Kidd; Jason Kidd is absolutely a better basketball player than James White.

 

[david bowman]

just like rice is better than moss even though moss is a better athlete

 

[carltonjunior]

Is there a difference between who's better and who is more talented?

Oh, certainly. Without a doubt. Though I will say that LeBron's physical attributes in comparison to Jordan shouldn't really hold weight in any comparison. LeBron isn't really that much talented in comparison imho.

 

[dt43]

Lebron is not better than Jordan and he is in his prime. Lebron is 28. This is how old Kobe was in 2006-2007. Kobe's athleticism started regressing after that season.

It is safe to say that Lebron will not get much better than he is right now. He is at his peak and it is not good enough to best MJ's peak.

When you consider that Wade is also regressing and Lebron's role player are old as hell, it is also unlikely that he will match MJ in terms of rings.

Lebron has improved every year for the past 3 years. You have no idea whether or not he won't get much better than that in fact, all signs point to him getting better than that.

He's only 28 and is on top of the NBA. His team is on top of the NBA. Who knows how many rings they'll reel off. When Michael won his first ring around the same age Lebron did, no one in their right mind thought he was going to win 6. Especially considering that for much of his time prior to that first ring, Jordan was considered a guy who could fill it up and fail or fall short come playoff time. As far as Championships and team success goes, who knows where the Heat will end up.

But from my perspective, team success is only a factor, not the factor in determining who's a better player. Too many factors that play a part in team success to value that as the ultimate factor. It can be argued that Lebron is becoming (if not has already become) a better playmaker, more efficient scorer, and versatile defender who's playing against players who are far more talented than the players Jordan played with and against.

Can people stop using this "same age" stuff? Lebron is 10 years in the L. By Jordan's 10th season, he was the GOAT..

The most anyone can do right now is argue for Lebron being more talented than Jordan in certain aspects. But in terms of overall dominance as a player, Jordan wins going away. We've seen 10 seasons from Lebron at this point. Based on how those 10 seasons have gone, many people will say we've seen enough to know that Lebron and Jordan are on different trajectories.

 

[Clyde Frog]

I agree, that's where I get thrown off with this discussion. I think Lebron is more talented than Jordan in terms of basketball skills. But he's no where close to Jordan with intangibles. Jordan's competitiveness, clutch factor, emotions ect. are what separate the two. And that's where I think the rings come from resulting in Jordan being the "better" player. Lebron really couldn't afford to lose to the Mavs two years ago.

 

[carltonjunior]

I agree, that's where I get thrown off with this discussion. I think Lebron is more talented than Jordan in terms of basketball skills.

Woah slow up. SLOW UP!

Are you serious?