Where's the Human Rights outrage against the blatant racism in France?

[king sole]

Mo Matik wrote:
I hear you sir. But all I am saying is that each country has its own customs/ culture. They have the right to enact a law reflecting their beliefs. To the best of my understanding, contemporary European society is struggling with a growing immigrant population and their conservative beliefs (I am not referring to Muslims only) versus their secular, liberal ideals. Albeit the law is discriminatory due to its target, it is not necessarily wrong. France, as a European nation, has a certain history which they have the right to protect. If people do not agree, they can relocate or respect the rules. I agree, this IS OFFENSIVE to Islamic women, but it is also right from the perspective of the French. 
Why classify Saudi Arabia as oppressive? It is only oppressive from a western point of view. It has its rules and laws. One can either choose to obey it or not. My uncle worked in Saudi Arabia and my aunt HAD to wear a hijab/ long clothing or she could not leave the house. After a month she decided it was not for her and bounced while my uncle worked there. That is all I am saying. I am not classifying one nation as free or another oppressive - I am simply stating that each nation has its customs/ rules/ laws and people who migrate their can either tolerate it and if they cannot LEAVE. 

Also, do not bring up TRULY fascist regimes/ nations in this argument. Their is a level of torment where HUMAN RIGHTS apply. Asking people of a FOREIGN culture to remove a piece of clothing that they hold sacred DOES NOT under any circumstances covered under human rights. 

 

[king sole]

Mo Matik wrote:
I hear you sir. But all I am saying is that each country has its own customs/ culture. They have the right to enact a law reflecting their beliefs. To the best of my understanding, contemporary European society is struggling with a growing immigrant population and their conservative beliefs (I am not referring to Muslims only) versus their secular, liberal ideals. Albeit the law is discriminatory due to its target, it is not necessarily wrong. France, as a European nation, has a certain history which they have the right to protect. If people do not agree, they can relocate or respect the rules. I agree, this IS OFFENSIVE to Islamic women, but it is also right from the perspective of the French. 
Why classify Saudi Arabia as oppressive? It is only oppressive from a western point of view. It has its rules and laws. One can either choose to obey it or not. My uncle worked in Saudi Arabia and my aunt HAD to wear a hijab/ long clothing or she could not leave the house. After a month she decided it was not for her and bounced while my uncle worked there. That is all I am saying. I am not classifying one nation as free or another oppressive - I am simply stating that each nation has its customs/ rules/ laws and people who migrate their can either tolerate it and if they cannot LEAVE. 

Also, do not bring up TRULY fascist regimes/ nations in this argument. Their is a level of torment where HUMAN RIGHTS apply. Asking people of a FOREIGN culture to remove a piece of clothing that they hold sacred DOES NOT under any circumstances covered under human rights. 

 

[shaunhillftw49]

Originally Posted by Cedric Ceballos 1995 Lakers

Originally Posted by King Sole

Westerners in the middle east HAVE to follow certain rules: no alcohol, certain websites are banned, women MUST be covered... So why is it that it is not acceptable if the West wants to do the same. If one has a problem and is THAT attached to their faith, they should %!+% and go back.
I am so tired of people complaining about Rules/Laws. If one feels it is discriminating, then leave. A western nation like France is well within their right to put forth a law they feel will protect the image of their country.

I am an immigrant if it matters.

exactly, where's the outrage and the crys for blatant racism if i go to the middle east and wanna drink a 40 and have one my jump offs show off her pretty face?

Everywhere

 

[shaunhillftw49]

Originally Posted by Cedric Ceballos 1995 Lakers

Originally Posted by King Sole

Westerners in the middle east HAVE to follow certain rules: no alcohol, certain websites are banned, women MUST be covered... So why is it that it is not acceptable if the West wants to do the same. If one has a problem and is THAT attached to their faith, they should %!+% and go back.
I am so tired of people complaining about Rules/Laws. If one feels it is discriminating, then leave. A western nation like France is well within their right to put forth a law they feel will protect the image of their country.

I am an immigrant if it matters.

exactly, where's the outrage and the crys for blatant racism if i go to the middle east and wanna drink a 40 and have one my jump offs show off her pretty face?

Everywhere

 

[mo matik]

I agree, this IS OFFENSIVE to Islamic women, but it is also right from the perspective of the French.


Is it a right from the perspective of the French if it infringes on every French females right of freedom to practice her religion? The Muslim population is huge in France, I'm sure a significant amount consist of converts and native born French citizens.

And just because the Taliban's enforcement of their dress code is so much more violent doesn't mean we can disregard the obvious parallels of the law itself, what kind of values it enforces, and the message it conveys.

 

[mo matik]

I agree, this IS OFFENSIVE to Islamic women, but it is also right from the perspective of the French.


Is it a right from the perspective of the French if it infringes on every French females right of freedom to practice her religion? The Muslim population is huge in France, I'm sure a significant amount consist of converts and native born French citizens.

And just because the Taliban's enforcement of their dress code is so much more violent doesn't mean we can disregard the obvious parallels of the law itself, what kind of values it enforces, and the message it conveys.

 

[mplsdunk]

Racism it is not.

 

[mplsdunk]

Racism it is not.

 

[sirius lee handsome]

it's not racist at all. it's a cultural "thing." we don't do this in the western world. it's just out of character with western mores and it should not be pushed on women by some religious/political doctrine, especially one that's historically foreign to the country.

and as it's been mentioned, try living a normal life with as much freedom as we do here in a country like say, saudi arabia or iran and you'll probably be jailed for those freedoms you take for granted here. the governmental policy in these fundamentalist states is driven by hardline islamic beliefs. there is no religious, social or most other types of freedoms for everyone in those countries

i'm all for france's new laws. wish we had the same in this country, but we got cowards bowing down to special interests like they actually matter

 

[sirius lee handsome]

it's not racist at all. it's a cultural "thing." we don't do this in the western world. it's just out of character with western mores and it should not be pushed on women by some religious/political doctrine, especially one that's historically foreign to the country.

and as it's been mentioned, try living a normal life with as much freedom as we do here in a country like say, saudi arabia or iran and you'll probably be jailed for those freedoms you take for granted here. the governmental policy in these fundamentalist states is driven by hardline islamic beliefs. there is no religious, social or most other types of freedoms for everyone in those countries

i'm all for france's new laws. wish we had the same in this country, but we got cowards bowing down to special interests like they actually matter

 

[megachamploo]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by Eyrkel

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

What race are they discriminating against then?

Not sure if srs

Name the race please.

you really are that dude.

 

[megachamploo]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by Eyrkel

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

What race are they discriminating against then?

Not sure if srs

Name the race please.

you really are that dude.

 

[king sole]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

I agree, this IS OFFENSIVE to Islamic women, but it is also right from the perspective of the French.

Is it a right from the perspective of the French if it infringes on every French females right of freedom to practice her religion? The Muslim population is huge in France, I'm sure a significant amount consist of converts and native born French citizens.

And just because the Taliban's enforcement of their dress code is so much more violent doesn't mean we can disregard the obvious parallels of the law itself, what kind of values it enforces, and the message it conveys.
But it is not an obvious parallel because if an Islamic woman refuses to obey the law she gets FINED. She is NOT DRAGGED, WHIPPED, BEATEN, and possibly killed. A fine is the extent of it and in the worst case scenario jail, in which case A LAWYER WILL BE PROVIDED OR CAN BE HIRED TO FIGHT HER CASE. Hardly a parallel sir. 
France has a history, its own culture. This law makes sense to them. All I am saying is if a person does not agree they should either relocate or obey. Just because it is a democratic nation does not mean that they do not have the right to protect themselves. I live in NYC. Fireworks are illegal. I can either stay in the city and obey the rules or move to, lets say, Pa. A more germane example: it is extremely difficult to acquire a hand gun license. Is it an infringement on my second amendment? Certainly. However, looking at it through the perspective of the city, it is logical and makes sense. Things are not black and white, especially in the modern world.

What I am saying is that THEY are in France. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with France. I just feel that they are being vilified by the media and many others. Moslems, Hindus, Sikhs, Budhists etc... in France need to follow and respect the laws of that nation. If one is THAT DEVOTED than why go to a place where you will not be allowed to freely practice your religion? Let me guess, money? You can't have it all. Being an immigrant I can honestly say that we feel way to entitled. I don't mean to steer the conversation, but I was tutoring at a Community College in the Bronx and this student had the audacity to tell me to learn Spanish because she did not know English and she was not the first person to tell me this. Again, YOU came HERE, follow the rules/laws of THIS COUNTRY. If you do not like it then go back or relocate. 

I am just tired of the complaints against France and I despise the French. And sir, this law does not prohibit a woman from practicing Islam. No one is stopping her from reading the holy book, going to the mosque... Islam is not being banned. They are banning a piece of clothing that makes it difficult for the authorities to identify people. Do I agree with it? That is irrelevant. The point is France is NOT wrong. Its their country. They voted and felt it goes against their culture and beliefs.  

 

[king sole]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

I agree, this IS OFFENSIVE to Islamic women, but it is also right from the perspective of the French.

Is it a right from the perspective of the French if it infringes on every French females right of freedom to practice her religion? The Muslim population is huge in France, I'm sure a significant amount consist of converts and native born French citizens.

And just because the Taliban's enforcement of their dress code is so much more violent doesn't mean we can disregard the obvious parallels of the law itself, what kind of values it enforces, and the message it conveys.
But it is not an obvious parallel because if an Islamic woman refuses to obey the law she gets FINED. She is NOT DRAGGED, WHIPPED, BEATEN, and possibly killed. A fine is the extent of it and in the worst case scenario jail, in which case A LAWYER WILL BE PROVIDED OR CAN BE HIRED TO FIGHT HER CASE. Hardly a parallel sir. 
France has a history, its own culture. This law makes sense to them. All I am saying is if a person does not agree they should either relocate or obey. Just because it is a democratic nation does not mean that they do not have the right to protect themselves. I live in NYC. Fireworks are illegal. I can either stay in the city and obey the rules or move to, lets say, Pa. A more germane example: it is extremely difficult to acquire a hand gun license. Is it an infringement on my second amendment? Certainly. However, looking at it through the perspective of the city, it is logical and makes sense. Things are not black and white, especially in the modern world.

What I am saying is that THEY are in France. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with France. I just feel that they are being vilified by the media and many others. Moslems, Hindus, Sikhs, Budhists etc... in France need to follow and respect the laws of that nation. If one is THAT DEVOTED than why go to a place where you will not be allowed to freely practice your religion? Let me guess, money? You can't have it all. Being an immigrant I can honestly say that we feel way to entitled. I don't mean to steer the conversation, but I was tutoring at a Community College in the Bronx and this student had the audacity to tell me to learn Spanish because she did not know English and she was not the first person to tell me this. Again, YOU came HERE, follow the rules/laws of THIS COUNTRY. If you do not like it then go back or relocate. 

I am just tired of the complaints against France and I despise the French. And sir, this law does not prohibit a woman from practicing Islam. No one is stopping her from reading the holy book, going to the mosque... Islam is not being banned. They are banning a piece of clothing that makes it difficult for the authorities to identify people. Do I agree with it? That is irrelevant. The point is France is NOT wrong. Its their country. They voted and felt it goes against their culture and beliefs.  

 

[ham city]

Yall need to learn the meaning and proper uses behind some of these words man.

 

[ham city]

Yall need to learn the meaning and proper uses behind some of these words man.

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by megachamploo

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by Eyrkel


Not sure if srs

Name the race please.

you really are that dude.

still waiting.....

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by megachamploo

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by Eyrkel


Not sure if srs

Name the race please.

you really are that dude.

still waiting.....

 

[mo matik]

Your immigrant point is noted, but this legislation doesn't just effect immigrant Muslims; it effects French citizens who converted as well. So if we are talking laws and what is right and wrong from the sense of a cultural and historical standpoint of that nation, it's still a conflict. As many know, the French Revolution was an amazing historical event that emphasized citizenship and human rights. Those aspects of French culture and history are what should be reflected through legislation.

Is this a huge infringement on the right to practice religion? No, not really. But it still is, and we have to recognize it as such because institutionalized persecution of a minority won't occur overnight.

 

[mo matik]

Your immigrant point is noted, but this legislation doesn't just effect immigrant Muslims; it effects French citizens who converted as well. So if we are talking laws and what is right and wrong from the sense of a cultural and historical standpoint of that nation, it's still a conflict. As many know, the French Revolution was an amazing historical event that emphasized citizenship and human rights. Those aspects of French culture and history are what should be reflected through legislation.

Is this a huge infringement on the right to practice religion? No, not really. But it still is, and we have to recognize it as such because institutionalized persecution of a minority won't occur overnight.

 

[ou imran]

I agree wholeheartedly with this ban and think we need to have it here as well. As stated if you choose to live somewhere you need to abide by there rules and regulations. I work in a bank and had a instance of this where a woman came in wanting to cash a check and her face was completely covered, we politely asked for her to move it, she refused and we refused her service.

Also from what I have been told only Mohammed's wives were required to cover their enitre face, not ever Muslim woman.

 

[ou imran]

I agree wholeheartedly with this ban and think we need to have it here as well. As stated if you choose to live somewhere you need to abide by there rules and regulations. I work in a bank and had a instance of this where a woman came in wanting to cash a check and her face was completely covered, we politely asked for her to move it, she refused and we refused her service.

Also from what I have been told only Mohammed's wives were required to cover their enitre face, not ever Muslim woman.

 

[pacmagic2002]

They banned it because they see it as a man trying to keep "Control" over women.

Its not racists......it just happens to be a certain demographic being singled out for their sexist ways.

 

[pacmagic2002]

They banned it because they see it as a man trying to keep "Control" over women.

Its not racists......it just happens to be a certain demographic being singled out for their sexist ways.

 

[dirtylicious]

Originally Posted by King Sole

Westerners in the middle east HAVE to follow certain rules: no alcohol, certain websites are banned, women MUST be covered... So why is it that it is not acceptable if the West wants to do the same. If one has a problem and is THAT attached to their faith, they should %!+% and go back.
I am so tired of people complaining about Rules/Laws. If one feels it is discriminating, then leave. A western nation like France is well within their right to put forth a law they feel will protect the image of their country.

I am an immigrant if it matters.

so you think that being American and being of Middle East heritage and Muslim is antithetical huh? 
How can one "leave" or "go back" if they're American in the 1st place?...