What Happens to Asian-Americans when the test-taking ends? (Long read)

[jookz]

Originally Posted by 21 World B Free 21

I haven't read the article but I would agree with the premise. Obviously its not limited to just Asians, but a descent portion of them (think back to that WSJ article about about an Asian mom raising her kids highly disciplined, ie. no sleepovers no BFs etc.). The simple fact is in western civilization the smartest, hardest working people aren't at the top. There are tons of smart hard working people out there who can do complex work (financial modeling, anything in technology and engineering etc) but the people that advance have social, managerial, leadership and politics skills in addition to intelligence, and/or work ethic. The people that are just smart and work hard working but bring little else to the table are put in a corner and do there work and are left alone. There's obviously a good medium but too often this seems to be ignored in this type of strict upbringing (obviously they are all not as strict), practicing the piano daily and playing until you get it right does teach you discipline and persistence but hanging out with friends playing sports etc teaches valuable skills as well.

i'd recommend reading the whole article.  i thought it was going to be all whining and moaning but he presents his point at the end.


i agree with most of what you had to say, but had to change it up a bit.  hard working =/= smart.

being just a hard worker isn't enough to make it, and that's one of the points the author's making.  the old adage that "hard work pays off" doesn't capture the importance of the soft skills required to succeed in any form of life.  unfortunately, that's one of the lessons many traditional parents seem to hammer into their children.

if you want to take the discussion further, this becomes an argument of entitlement.  too many people are raised to believe that if they do X amount of work, they are ENTITLED to Y success.  in reality, nobody cares how much effort you put into something, rather, it's the end product that people care about.  if you put 1000 hours into a garbage product, it's still a garbage product.  nobody's going to pay you when they don't want what you're selling, no matter how long you spent making it.  this translates into arguments over into topics like the value of a degree, why people can't get jobs, why social welfare is unfair (for or against)

 

[jookz]

Originally Posted by 21 World B Free 21

I haven't read the article but I would agree with the premise. Obviously its not limited to just Asians, but a descent portion of them (think back to that WSJ article about about an Asian mom raising her kids highly disciplined, ie. no sleepovers no BFs etc.). The simple fact is in western civilization the smartest, hardest working people aren't at the top. There are tons of smart hard working people out there who can do complex work (financial modeling, anything in technology and engineering etc) but the people that advance have social, managerial, leadership and politics skills in addition to intelligence, and/or work ethic. The people that are just smart and work hard working but bring little else to the table are put in a corner and do there work and are left alone. There's obviously a good medium but too often this seems to be ignored in this type of strict upbringing (obviously they are all not as strict), practicing the piano daily and playing until you get it right does teach you discipline and persistence but hanging out with friends playing sports etc teaches valuable skills as well.

i'd recommend reading the whole article.  i thought it was going to be all whining and moaning but he presents his point at the end.


i agree with most of what you had to say, but had to change it up a bit.  hard working =/= smart.

being just a hard worker isn't enough to make it, and that's one of the points the author's making.  the old adage that "hard work pays off" doesn't capture the importance of the soft skills required to succeed in any form of life.  unfortunately, that's one of the lessons many traditional parents seem to hammer into their children.

if you want to take the discussion further, this becomes an argument of entitlement.  too many people are raised to believe that if they do X amount of work, they are ENTITLED to Y success.  in reality, nobody cares how much effort you put into something, rather, it's the end product that people care about.  if you put 1000 hours into a garbage product, it's still a garbage product.  nobody's going to pay you when they don't want what you're selling, no matter how long you spent making it.  this translates into arguments over into topics like the value of a degree, why people can't get jobs, why social welfare is unfair (for or against)

 

[dwyanewadeog]

and smart =/= hard working.

Raw talent can only get you so far. I feel like hard work is what distinguishes the top 1% from each other.

 

[dwyanewadeog]

and smart =/= hard working.

Raw talent can only get you so far. I feel like hard work is what distinguishes the top 1% from each other.

 

[sixzerofour]

Posting for later... i got a long way to go.

 

[shatterkneesinc]

i am asian...didint read but i already know what the article is gonna be about

asian kids are conditioned by their parents to be risk adverse..we dont have that super star representing us to give us any sort of social appeal and what not so they see fulfillment as getting that dough instead of getting what you really want

its just simply isnt "cool" to be asian

and meh i dont give a shh

 

[shatterkneesinc]

i am asian...didint read but i already know what the article is gonna be about

asian kids are conditioned by their parents to be risk adverse..we dont have that super star representing us to give us any sort of social appeal and what not so they see fulfillment as getting that dough instead of getting what you really want

its just simply isnt "cool" to be asian

and meh i dont give a shh

 

[sixzerofour]

Posting for later... i got a long way to go.

 

[lol]

Posting for later. Will read when I get back home. iPhone dying

 

[lol]

Posting for later. Will read when I get back home. iPhone dying

 

[proper english]

Originally Posted by DwyaneWadeOG

and smart =/= hard working.

Raw talent can only get you so far. I feel like hard work is what distinguishes the top 1% from each other.

i have immense artistic talent (so ive heard

).. im just lazy as hell.. 
i will do whatever it takes to do the least amount of work possible... irony? 

 

[proper english]

Originally Posted by DwyaneWadeOG

and smart =/= hard working.

Raw talent can only get you so far. I feel like hard work is what distinguishes the top 1% from each other.

i have immense artistic talent (so ive heard

).. im just lazy as hell.. 
i will do whatever it takes to do the least amount of work possible... irony? 

 

[kiendienn]

boring read. asians passive upbringing leads to asians with no balls in the business world. they don't stand up for themselves and take risks in the business world, so they maintain the stereotype that they can easily be pushed around.

they blame the parents which is partly true, but they need to man up themselves

 

[kiendienn]

boring read. asians passive upbringing leads to asians with no balls in the business world. they don't stand up for themselves and take risks in the business world, so they maintain the stereotype that they can easily be pushed around.

they blame the parents which is partly true, but they need to man up themselves

 

[saintvitus07]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

American culture is like a drug and it will slowly rid any cultural group of its real ethnic identity.

Most countries with a significant number of immigrants experience the same phenomenon. It's not just an American thing. It's pretty natural when you actually think about it instead of rant.

 

[saintvitus07]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

American culture is like a drug and it will slowly rid any cultural group of its real ethnic identity.

Most countries with a significant number of immigrants experience the same phenomenon. It's not just an American thing. It's pretty natural when you actually think about it instead of rant.

 

[acidicality]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

Bookmarking for later...

Read the first page though and I'll say this.  As Asians spend more time in this country they'll increasingly assimilate to American culture and those stereotypes won't always hold true. Jews were once looked at like Asians were, great students, heard workers but social outcasts but a century now the stereotype of Jews are ***'s who wear Juicy Couture and carry Louis Vuitton purses.  American culture is like a drug and it will slowly rid any cultural group of its real ethnic identity.  For example, Italian-American are vastly different from Italians, cause there perspective of being Italian comes from living in America.  There are increasingly more Asians getting into fields than aren't considered Asian at all (pop music, acting etc.).

Agreed. I do feel like maybe in 50 years or so, Asians will be more assimilated into the culture and have a much bigger influence.

The last paragraph is dead on:

There is something salutary in that proud defiance. And though the debate she sparked about Asian-American life has been of questionable value, we will need more people with the same kind of defiance, willing to push themselves into the spotlight and to make some noise, to beat people up, to seduce women, to make mistakes, to become entrepreneurs, to stop doggedly pursuing official paper emblems attesting to their worthiness, to stop thinking those scraps of paper will secure anyone’s happiness, and to dare to be interesting.

 

[acidicality]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

Bookmarking for later...

Read the first page though and I'll say this.  As Asians spend more time in this country they'll increasingly assimilate to American culture and those stereotypes won't always hold true. Jews were once looked at like Asians were, great students, heard workers but social outcasts but a century now the stereotype of Jews are ***'s who wear Juicy Couture and carry Louis Vuitton purses.  American culture is like a drug and it will slowly rid any cultural group of its real ethnic identity.  For example, Italian-American are vastly different from Italians, cause there perspective of being Italian comes from living in America.  There are increasingly more Asians getting into fields than aren't considered Asian at all (pop music, acting etc.).

Agreed. I do feel like maybe in 50 years or so, Asians will be more assimilated into the culture and have a much bigger influence.

The last paragraph is dead on:

There is something salutary in that proud defiance. And though the debate she sparked about Asian-American life has been of questionable value, we will need more people with the same kind of defiance, willing to push themselves into the spotlight and to make some noise, to beat people up, to seduce women, to make mistakes, to become entrepreneurs, to stop doggedly pursuing official paper emblems attesting to their worthiness, to stop thinking those scraps of paper will secure anyone’s happiness, and to dare to be interesting.

 

[hankmoody]

Wow....just got into a 2+ hour debate off this article... was watching the Bulls game and I was talking about this article and bam!! The entire room went crazy and we barely watched the game. Touched on race, affirmativ action, gender...damn. That just happened.

 

[hankmoody]

Wow....just got into a 2+ hour debate off this article... was watching the Bulls game and I was talking about this article and bam!! The entire room went crazy and we barely watched the game. Touched on race, affirmativ action, gender...damn. That just happened.

 

[illmatic34]

Great article. I think the biggest flaws with the Asian American population is that we stress too much self-isolation and education. Asian kids who lack social skills aren't just shy; I feel that they haven't been really encouraged by their parents to socialize growing up. For me growing up, it was always lectures of getting good grades and studying instead of getting out of the house and meeting new people. By stressing education, we set too high of a standard for ourselves that for many is unreachable. To an Asian parent, being anything other than a nurse or a doctor or an engineer is unaccepted and it's unfortunate that people who aren't looking into those professions are shunned. Asians seem to neglect an important part of getting by in the real world: social skills. If we really want to show society how smart we are, then we must take initiative to teach kids to communicate properly.

 

[illmatic34]

Great article. I think the biggest flaws with the Asian American population is that we stress too much self-isolation and education. Asian kids who lack social skills aren't just shy; I feel that they haven't been really encouraged by their parents to socialize growing up. For me growing up, it was always lectures of getting good grades and studying instead of getting out of the house and meeting new people. By stressing education, we set too high of a standard for ourselves that for many is unreachable. To an Asian parent, being anything other than a nurse or a doctor or an engineer is unaccepted and it's unfortunate that people who aren't looking into those professions are shunned. Asians seem to neglect an important part of getting by in the real world: social skills. If we really want to show society how smart we are, then we must take initiative to teach kids to communicate properly.

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

/thread

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

/thread

 

[dj b milk]

why isnt anyone wearing shirts though?