WELCOME TO THE MARVEL MULTIVERSE -*RIP STAN LEE & Boseman* - Agatha All Along new ep every Wednesday

[sea manup]

He then upgrades sheild/hydras equipment which was the main protagonist in cap 2

Allows ultron to be created when he was at a party

Tries to drink his problems away when he's dying before nick fury talks some sense into him in iron man 2

Repeatedly disrespects and belittles African American sidekick

Calls out terrorist then allows helicopters to blow up his house

Blows up all his suits for no reason at all, is back in the iron man suit by the next movie

Dude is oblivious to everything and acts irrationally. RDJs charm and charisma cause people to ignore is consistantly poor decision making due to his head being up his own ***

 

[jays25]

He then upgrades sheild/hydras equipment which was the main protagonist in cap 2

Allows ultron to be created when he was at a party

Tries to drink his problems away when he's dying before nick fury talks some sense into him in iron man 2

Repeatedly disrespects and belittles African American sidekick

Calls out terrorist then allows helicopters to blow up his house

Blows up all his suits for no reason at all, is back in the iron man suit by the next movie

Dude is oblivious to everything and acts irrationally. RDJs charm and charisma cause people to ignore is consistantly poor decision making due to his head being up his own ***

S.H.I.E.L.D. is a world peacekeeping taskforce. How exactly is there a problem in aiding them? True, they turned out to be Hydra, but NO ONE on the planet managed to figure that out, until it was outright laid out before Cap and Widow, and it had been going on for decades. Seems silly to pinpoint Tony for that.

Because people facing death can't turn to alchohol? Yes, Lord knows that Tony's the only person in history to ever seek out that beloved Demon in a Bottle But what's more he only has one incident of getting drunk due to said death.

Can't remember any major incidents of belittlement and disrespect between him and Rhodey. Biggest one might be the fight in IM2, where Tony was again drunk. Irresponsible and his fault to be sure, but one incident in a friendship that's gone on for many years is fairly good in my opinion. Everything else comes across as playful banter between the two.

The suits being blown up had a reason that was very clear in the film, just as him removing the metal from his body had a reason. It was just poorly followed up afterwards with him then proceeding to make more suits. (Though that being said, those suits he blew up were poorly developed trash, and since he can so easily make more its not that big a deal if he gets rid of the older models)

The rest i'll give you. (Though saying he "allowed" the helicopters to blow up his house isn't accurate" and Ultron turning out the way he did owed something to Scarlet Witch.)

People consistently exaggerate in regards to Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Bruce Wayne, and Clark Kent for some reason.

 

[everysingletime]

This is why I agreed with Pym keeping his particles to himself. You can't be putting stuff like this out there. Too dangerous, especially in the MCU

I had 0 issue with him on that point. His creation, his choice. Plain and simple.

Also liked when he decked that dude at the start of the film for mentioning his wife. Then years later "How's your face?"

Pym is that dude. I roll with Pym

I'm talking MCU version. Not wife beater version

 

[rfx45]

Wouldn't a "TEAM STARK" or "TEAM ROGERS" post suffice?





Anyways, this years D23 Expo Schedule that involves Marvel:

Hall D23 Presentations:

Worlds, Galaxies, and Universes: Live Action at The Walt Disney Studios
Saturday, August 15, 10:30 a.m.—Hall D23

Disney, Marvel and Lucasfilm are home to some of the planet’s best storytellers, immersing audiences fully in the world of each film from beginning to end and beyond. In this exclusive Hall D23 presentation, join Walt Disney Studios Chairman Alan Horn for a tour of upcoming live-action projects from these legendary film studios. A bevy of special guests will be on hand to offer a look at an unparalleled slate that includes Marvel’s Captain America: Civil War, Star Wars: The Force Awakens—and much, much more.

 

[Master Zik]

[thread="583561"] [/thread]
End of the day Cap's idea of saving the day is refusing to leave any one behind in a flying city about to crash into earth while Stark's idea of saving the day is creating ultron.

fixed

You do know Stark didn't create the Ultron A.I. right? He found it and used it to what he was already creating. He and Banner both say they didn't have the tech until now.

The A.I. then proceeds to kill Jarvis and try to wipe out humanity.

So no what became Ultron wasn't Stark's intention at all.

If Cap can't recognize ppl will die in war he's an idiot. There's saving the world and saving the ppl with you. You can't always have both. Word to Bucky falling off the train.

 

[robinvandamn]

Wouldn't a "TEAM STARK" or "TEAM ROGERS" post suffice?





Anyways, this years D23 Expo Schedule that involves Marvel:

Hall D23 Presentations:

Worlds, Galaxies, and Universes: Live Action at The Walt Disney Studios
Saturday, August 15, 10:30 a.m.—Hall D23

Disney, Marvel and Lucasfilm are home to some of the planet’s best storytellers, immersing audiences fully in the world of each film from beginning to end and beyond. In this exclusive Hall D23 presentation, join Walt Disney Studios Chairman Alan Horn for a tour of upcoming live-action projects from these legendary film studios. A bevy of special guests will be on hand to offer a look at an unparalleled slate that includes Marvel’s Captain America: Civil War, Star Wars: The Force Awakens—and much, much more.

Any word on if they're going to stream this like Star Wars fest?

 

[sunshineblotters]

I really hope Civil War isnt concluded in the movie. All the ramifications should be evident through IW 2

 

[everysingletime]

I kinda want to go...

 

[Master Zik]

Steve already called him out on his wrongful methods on Barton's farm but yet, Tony will never get it. You guys act like Tony isn't the biggest threat in the entire MCU

It's currently Thanos but c'mon MCU needs Stark.

Y'all genuinely act as if having Sentinals doesn't make perfect sense in the face of mutants like Magneto, Apocalypse, Stryfe, etc. The issue is that the Sentinels are then continually privately made by corporations and people that want to use them for villanous purposes, or to just plain kill all mutants.

Not really any different from the Superhuman Registration Act. Having superheroes registered and trained by the government so they can properly use their powers? Great, but then how to make absolutely certain that none of the evil geniuses in the world ever get into the database and leak all of that information?

I'll be honest I never liked sentinels. The concept always seemed dumb to me. An America where the gov't okays the use of giant robots hunting and abducting/killing unsuspecting Americans who just find out they're mutants was dumb and insane to me. (This aint an anti-machine thing cuz I love me some gundams ).

Yes Magneto is a real threat (I aint never seen mutants attack Apocalypse and lets be serious they wouldn't stand a chance. Stryfe could probably handle them too with his power set) but there must be a better response than that and there has been. It'd be much better if the gov't rounded up some mutants that were sick of Magneto making them look bad and genuinely supported them in trying to stop mutant terrorists (they sorta tried that with David's X-Factor) but there seems to be way too many racists in the gov't and/or racist lobbyists that are completely against mutant anything.

So that leads to all these independent groups making mass mutant killing machines.

They never said that was OK though. Any instantce where Sentinels have gone after mutants has either been in the face of dangerous mutants, which the average police officer wasn't going to be dealing with, the Sentinels themselves gaining some kind of omnipotence (Which was the entire reason Days of Future Past happened at all), or someone else pulling the strings (Like Nimrod and such) The Sentinels were only ever meant to be a counter/deterrent to protect people should these mutants that were popping up seek to use their powers for evil purposes. It makes perfect sense to me and came to be valuable down the line when they reached the point that the Sentinels were being piloted by military soldiers for such cases. Because an entire nation can't realistically be expected to count on costumed superheroes who at any given day might be off the planet dealing with some intergalactic incident.

Funding a goverment organization of mutants is a good job, but still doesn't completely erase the need for Sentinels, which can be easily mass produced, whereas the mutant team would only ever equal what? 10 or 15 on an ideal day? Sentinels are only seen as bad in the same way that the Registration is only seen as bad, because they're mainly used for bad storylines be neharious people.

It then devolves to a completely different conversation alltogether, about how closely the government should be monitoring its citizens, which leads to instances where you have certain organizations (Many times with people possessing genius level intellects and powers of their own) making their own Sentinels.

The American gov't in Marvel comics have had entire stories revolving around congress,senate, etc. voting to okay the use of sentinels. There have been times where they were totally allowed to operate on U.S.soil. In these stories the president at the time is usually never init but there's some high level gov't person calling the shots. So they definitely have directly or indirectly said it was ok.

Either way there's no justifying sentinels showing up and just taking Americans away cuz their powers are being used. I don't recall many comics where sentinels showed up to stop Sabertooth, the Hell Fire Club, Legion, or other threats. They're mainly used to go after X-Men, mutants that mean no harm, and Magneto and his brotherhood. They're always used in a way they do not show judgment between a regular mutant posing no threat, a mutant whose powers is out of control, and evil person using their mutant powers to kill. The whole point of the sentinels was to remove mutants from humanity. You say regular cops can't stop these mutants yes but that doesn't mean you okay sentinels. There's never been stories where sentinels have been illegally operating in America and the gov't set in some F16s to shoot them down.

To bring it to a global scale, sentinels were used to commit genocide on Genosha and the world's nations did nothing.

Just because some ppl have powers that may be dangerous the solution isn't create giant killing machines. Like I said it'd be much smarter to get mutants who want to help send the message that mutants aren't a threat once they're trained to go out and get mutants whose powers are out of control. Not killing robots.

Yes you could solely rely on mutants, they're thousands popping up everyday. There's never been a time where there were more sentinels than mutants. Saying it's easy to mass produce just sounds lazy. If this were the real world they'd be an insane waste of money. Furthermore, just like superheroes the sentinels don't do much protecting of humans. THey cause just as much destruction as superheroes. They're giant ******* robots shooting lasers and ****. They're not a necessity.

As for monitoring citizens, bump that. The gov. should've just asked Prof. X for cerebra or find some other genius that could make something similar and then use it to go recruit mutants as they emerge. They could have a mutant army in under a decade. If the American gov. in Marvel comics weren't so racist and hateful they'd end up being runaway supreme power in the world all over again but nah they'd rather spend time killing their potential resources.

Once more, in these stories, Sentinels aren't being sent out to hunt down and round up every mutant on the planet.

Yes they were and are. I'm not sure what X-Men comics you've been reading.

They ok the use of Sentinels to defend the American people from dangerous mutants.

This is not what all they do.

Did you completely miss the Master Mold and Bastion story lines? They're programmed to capture and/or kill mutants. Not just protect humans from mutants.

And in terms of the goverment that's pretty much been the case since the Sentinels were introduced.

So the gov. okays one thing about sentinels and ignore when they do much more than that.

There was even a point where they had a group of Sentinels posted right outside the X-Mansion. Not to attack the X-Men, but to keep an eye on them.

I already referenced that. This was after Decimation. There were a lot less mutants in the world so the gov. headed by O.N.E. decided to round up the remaining mutants and the X-Men to keep them where they were just like Japanese interment. If you don't see that as an egregious infringement of civil rights I don't know what to tell you.

I mean did you read those stories? The mutants in the next camp had to form a resistance to escape. The gov. supervised O.N.E. as those U-Men rejects experimented on one mutant and had that mutant kill others.

What you're saying doesn't happen.

Yes it did.

Word to Operation: Zero Tolerance.

Let me know if you been reading these X-Men comic or just skimming through them.

Sentinels don't just show up and take mutants away. The times when the actual government is sending Sentinels after the X-Men are few and far between, and in many cases comes from a misunderstanding.

No it isn't and they don't just take mutants away if other mutants get involved they kill them.

Mutants fighting sentinels isn't some misunderstanding like when superheroes use to fight each other when they first met.

9 times out of 10 its, as I previously stated, the Sentinels acting on their own a la Terminator (Master Mold, Nimrod, etc) or someone else besides the government sending his/her own Sentinels (Sebastian Shaw, Stephan Lang, etc.), or someone taking control of the Sentinels (Onslaught, Dark Beast, Loki, etc)

You need to read the 80s and 90s X-Men comics asap.

It's only been since Morrison's run that the gov. hasn't been as involved with hunting and killing mutants.

Sentinels have been used by the government to attack Kang the Conqueror when he was invading the planet.

So what? Sentinels were used to commit mutant genocide.

Incidents of Sentinels then operating tend to be wrapped up fairly quickly, and without any confirmation there's not even anything to say that the government is aware when these things are happening

So if the gov. isn't aware they're not corrupt just incompetent.

So the gov. of the world are either corrupt which many have been shown to see or incompetent.

Sentinels make just as much sense as having a mutant fighting task force made of mutants

No they don't. The second you start making machines do the peace keeping is when you've lost the ppl entirely. It'd be folly to think other wise.

 

[rfx45]

Wouldn't a "TEAM STARK" or "TEAM ROGERS" post suffice?





Anyways, this years D23 Expo Schedule that involves Marvel:

Hall D23 Presentations:

Worlds, Galaxies, and Universes: Live Action at The Walt Disney Studios
Saturday, August 15, 10:30 a.m.—Hall D23

Disney, Marvel and Lucasfilm are home to some of the planet’s best storytellers, immersing audiences fully in the world of each film from beginning to end and beyond. In this exclusive Hall D23 presentation, join Walt Disney Studios Chairman Alan Horn for a tour of upcoming live-action projects from these legendary film studios. A bevy of special guests will be on hand to offer a look at an unparalleled slate that includes Marvel’s Captain America: Civil War, Star Wars: The Force Awakens—and much, much more.

Any word on if they're going to stream this like Star Wars fest?

No word but I don't think they will just because this is an expo and people actually pay to go there and I've never really heard of any vid leaking out of this expo before but I could be wrong. I wouldn't put my money on it though.

 

[sea manup]

[thread="583561"] [/thread]
End of the day Cap's idea of saving the day is refusing to leave any one behind in a flying city about to crash into earth while Stark's idea of saving the day is creating ultron.

fixed

You do know Stark didn't create the Ultron A.I. right? He found it and used it to what he was already creating. He and Banner both say they didn't have the tech until now.

The A.I. then proceeds to kill Jarvis and try to wipe out humanity.

So no what became Ultron wasn't Stark's intention at all.

If Cap can't recognize ppl will die in war he's an idiot. There's saving the world and saving the ppl with you. You can't always have both. Word to Bucky falling off the train.

Banner warned him, but he went ahead and played around with something he didn't understand which resulted in ultron. It was directly caused by him being mentally soft and shook from the first avengers (and SW playing with his mind) and biting off more than he can chew in trying to solve the problem by himself.

They ended up saving almost all of the people in the city while preventing the world from being destroyed. Seems like caps plan worked out pretty well

 

[Master Zik]

[thread="583561"] [/thread]
End of the day Cap's idea of saving the day is refusing to leave any one behind in a flying city about to crash into earth while Stark's idea of saving the day is creating ultron.

fixed

You do know Stark didn't create the Ultron A.I. right? He found it and used it to what he was already creating. He and Banner both say they didn't have the tech until now.

The A.I. then proceeds to kill Jarvis and try to wipe out humanity.

So no what became Ultron wasn't Stark's intention at all.

If Cap can't recognize ppl will die in war he's an idiot. There's saving the world and saving the ppl with you. You can't always have both. Word to Bucky falling off the train.

Banner warned him, but he went ahead and played around with something he didn't understand which resulted in ultron.

No. Banner warned him and then Stark convinced him and Banner helped. The same exact thing happened when they went to do it AGAIN and helped create/release The Vision.

You just changed my post to say Stark's idea of saving the world is creating Ultron. That's categorically false. Ultron as we saw him in the movie was not Stark's intent AT ALL. You must've been watching a different movie where Stark was helping Ultron and telling the Avengers he saw nothing wrong in Ultron's plan.

It was directly caused by him being mentally soft

What does this even mean? Mentally soft?

and shook from the first avengers (and SW playing with his mind) and biting off more than he can chew in trying to solve the problem by himself.

Outside of Thor (depending on how old he is) nobody but Stark saw the threat when he went through that portal. He's a futurist. He listened to what Thor said when he said creating stuff like the tesseract tells everybody else in space that the Earth is ready for higher form of war. Tony envisioned a global armor to protect most of humanity that isn't prepared for that sort of war. Unfortunately as smart as he is he aint have the advanced tech to build what he felt was necessary. Then he comes across what Strucker stole/found and saw the opportunity to use that. Yes he could've done some due diligence to scrub out the malignant software that became the core of Ultron but to start with he was never aiming to create Ultron in the 3 days before Thor left. He just wanted to copy and use that A.I. The A.I. became aware, killed Jarvis and took over and corrupted it's mission statement.

They ended up saving almost all of the people in the city while preventing the world from being destroyed. Seems like caps plan worked out pretty well

NONE of that was Cap's plan. Nick Fury saved Cap's *** and all those ppl. Give props where they're due. Without Fury all those ppl die. So please stop lying about Cap's plan "working out well"

You know what Cap's response was the whole movie when Stark argued with him about what his solution was? We fight. We fight together and die together. **** Cap. He's a dumb ************. Stupid *** is suppose to be a brilliant strategist but I guess not in the MCU. Son had no plan to stop Ultron AT ALL. His ideas and plans seem to be on the fly in the middle of battle. The smart ppl and the guy with resources saved the day and all of those ppl.

Funny enough it was lame *** Hawkeye that gave the inspirational battle speech to inspire the Scarlet Witch to guard what she needed to give ppl the time to save the day. The **** was Cap doing?

 

[sea manup]

Iron man fan boys getting their panties in a twist. Mad emotional and irrational like their "hero"

 

[jays25]

Yes they were and are. I'm not sure what X-Men comics you've been reading.

They ok the use of Sentinels to defend the American people from dangerous mutants.

This is not what all they do.

Did you completely miss the Master Mold and Bastion story lines? They're programmed to capture and/or kill mutants. Not just protect humans from mutants.

And in terms of the goverment that's pretty much been the case since the Sentinels were introduced.

So the gov. okays one thing about sentinels and ignore when they do much more than that.

There was even a point where they had a group of Sentinels posted right outside the X-Mansion. Not to attack the X-Men, but to keep an eye on them.

I already referenced that. This was after Decimation. There were a lot less mutants in the world so the gov. headed by O.N.E. decided to round up the remaining mutants and the X-Men to keep them where they were just like Japanese interment. If you don't see that as an egregious infringement of civil rights I don't know what to tell you.

I mean did you read those stories? The mutants in the next camp had to form a resistance to escape. The gov. supervised O.N.E. as those U-Men rejects experimented on one mutant and had that mutant kill others.

What you're saying doesn't happen.

Yes it did.

Word to Operation: Zero Tolerance.

Let me know if you been reading these X-Men comic or just skimming through them.

Sentinels don't just show up and take mutants away. The times when the actual government is sending Sentinels after the X-Men are few and far between, and in many cases comes from a misunderstanding.

No it isn't and they don't just take mutants away if other mutants get involved they kill them.

Mutants fighting sentinels isn't some misunderstanding like when superheroes use to fight each other when they first met.

9 times out of 10 its, as I previously stated, the Sentinels acting on their own a la Terminator (Master Mold, Nimrod, etc) or someone else besides the government sending his/her own Sentinels (Sebastian Shaw, Stephan Lang, etc.), or someone taking control of the Sentinels (Onslaught, Dark Beast, Loki, etc)

You need to read the 80s and 90s X-Men comics asap.

It's only been since Morrison's run that the gov. hasn't been as involved with hunting and killing mutants.

Sentinels have been used by the government to attack Kang the Conqueror when he was invading the planet.

So what? Sentinels were used to commit mutant genocide.

Incidents of Sentinels then operating tend to be wrapped up fairly quickly, and without any confirmation there's not even anything to say that the government is aware when these things are happening

So if the gov. isn't aware they're not corrupt just incompetent.

So the gov. of the world are either corrupt which many have been shown to see or incompetent.

Sentinels make just as much sense as having a mutant fighting task force made of mutants

No they don't. The second you start making machines do the peace keeping is when you've lost the ppl entirely. It'd be folly to think other wise.

No they weren't.

Yeah it is man. That's the entire purpose of the Sentinels. Not to cause genocide, but to protect regular people from dangerous mutants. However, the Bastion and Master Mold storylines are EXACTLY what i've been talking about. None of the actions the Sentinels took in either case had anything to do with the government, but an outside force manipulating them.

Yes, they protect people by being capable of capturing and killing mutants.

The government doesn't necessarily ignore when other people use Sentinels. It's simply that when other people are doing it in X-Men related storylines, such as Dark Beast, readers aren't shown the government reacting to these things one way or the other, because they simply aren't included into the story. It's honestly just a part of the comic book medium. It'd be like criticizing one hero for not getting involved when another is in trouble, when you don't know what that other hero is doing because he's not being featured right then.

No. The Sentinels sent by O.N.E. were given the express orders to protect and watch over the mutants at Xavier's school after Decimation, specifically because the race was now on the verge of extinction. And that exact situation even had them working with the X-Men at one point.

Operation Zero Tolerance is in the aftermath of Onslaught, after an extremely powerful mutant has gone on a rampage, and supposedly led to the deaths of the majority of Earth's heroes. Basically, the type of situation that proves exactly why Sentinels are necessary. This was also around the exact same time Graydon Creed was assassinated in such a way as to make it look like mutants had done it, fanning the flames of discontent even higher. All of this had Bastion at the center, working within the government to push his anti-mutant agenda forward. And even then, they weren't being sent to kill mutants. As I said previously, "Any instantce where Sentinels have gone after mutants has...been in the face of dangerous mutants" In this case, the supposed mutant that kill Creed and Onslaught, plus the deaths of so many heroes at once.

lol yes it is. Zero Tolerance is not the norm in regards to Sentinels, and falls within the previously mentioned times of strife for when the government does use Sentinels. It just so happened that the entire event was someone else manipulating the events to create that situation.

Read them, you're just exaggerating the use of Sentinels by the government and downplaying just how often it's someone else causing them to attack.

Mutant Genocide that was caused by an evil mutant

Sentinels again make perfect sense. You seem to think that 1)Sentinels have a massive mutant body count. Outside of Genosha they really don't. And 2)That the worst acts the Sentinels have done have been on some random day where the government sent them out to kill all mutants. That's not how it is at all.

 

[Master Zik]

Iron man fan boys getting their panties in a twist. Mad emotional and irrational like their "hero"

View media item 1638839


I knew you aint had no reply to the truth

 

[sea manup]

The world doesn't run on excuses, it runs on results

Sure ultron wasn't the intentions of tony. But it was the result

You can come up with all sorts of fluff to discredit cap, at the end of the day he made the team stay to save the people and they were successful in saving the people and the world.

Get out of here with the "what if" arguments. Things worked out for cap, they don't for tony. No need for excuses, stick to the fax b

 

[Master Zik]

Operation Zero Tolerance is in the aftermath of Onslaught, after an extremely powerful mutant has gone on a rampage, and supposedly led to the deaths of the majority of Earth's heroes. Basically, the type of situation that proves exactly why Sentinels are necessary. This was also around the exact same time Graydon Creed was assassinated in such a way as to make it look like mutants had done it, fanning the flames of discontent even higher. All of this had Bastion at the center, working within the government to push his anti-mutant agenda forward. And even then, they weren't being sent to kill mutants. As I said previously, "Any instantce where Sentinels have gone after mutants has...been in the face of dangerous mutants" In this case, the supposed mutant that kill Creed and Onslaught, plus the deaths of so many heroes at once.

lol yes it is. Zero Tolerance is not the norm in regards to Sentinels, and falls within the previously mentioned times of strife for when the government does use Sentinels. It just so happened that the entire event was someone else manipulating the events to create that situation.

So you do know what sentinels have been used for.

You talking like Bastion isn't a form of sentinel himself

Before it seemed like you were denying it outright. Now it's clear you're making excuses for the fictional corrupt and/or incompetent gov. when it comes to mutant relations.

Mutants were definitely being killed by the way but it seems you got some on again off again memory when it comes to it.

 

[jays25]

The facts are that Tony created a problem in Ultron (After some mind manipulation from Scarlet Witch) and then came up with the solution for said problem, via Vision. He also came up with the plan to destroy Ultron's meteor-city. But lets just ignore that and act like Cap did it by himself.

Before it seemed like you were denying it outright. Now it's clear you're making excuses for the fictional corrupt and/or incompetent gov. when it comes to mutant relations.

If making excuses equals judging each instance of Sentinel use and the governments involvement or lack thereof on a case by case basis then yes.

I don't deny that the government hasn't handled the mutant situation well. But to then go to the far end of the spectrum and say that they instead have a position of trying to destroy the entire race is simply inaccurate.

 

[Master Zik]

The world doesn't run on excuses, it runs on results

It also doesn't run on made up bull ****

Sure ultron wasn't the intentions of tony. But it was the result

So what?

You seemed to be confused with what I'm saying. I'm not saying Stark is free from blame for creating Ultron. I'm specifically disputing the bull **** lie that Stark's idea of saving the world is the Ultron in the movie. That's just you purposely trying to twist facts and spin ****.

You got a clear bias and can't be honest with how things went down. I'll call it out every time. It's so transparent.

You can come up with all sorts of fluff to discredit cap, at the end of the day he made the team stay to save the people and they were successful in saving the people and the world.

Cap had no plan FACT.

Get out of here with the "what if" arguments. Things worked out for cap, they don't for tony. No need for excuses, stick to theote

Maybe you confused but I did not use any what if arguments for anything.

Now you're just relying on story telling elements to support your arguments. The movie wasn't going to end with an extinction level event Saying things work out for one but not the other as if it was Tony that said lets ditch all the ppl is again more spin and bull **** from you.

You can't deal in specifics cuz that's when your bias will show so you stick to vague statements in between lies about the sequence of events.

You went from Cap's plan worked out well to things work out for Cap The **** is that? Hoping things work out IS NOT A PLAN.

As far as working out well, it was Tony's idea to finish The Vision's download and release him. Cap wanted to keep him locked up. Cap was 100% wrong. So I guess that worked out for Tony. All it took was Thor telling Cap to shut the **** up cuz he had a vision.

 

[jays25]

Let's just call it what it is, Captain America is *** at long-term planning, and therefore never tries to do it. Civil War? We'll figure out another way. AvX? We'll figure out another way. Infinity? We'll figure out another way. Every single time there's a major event that threatens a lot of people, other people work to come up with plans and worst case scenarios and this dude's not willing to make the tough choices and will directly interfer with the plans of other people instead. He's not smart enough to do anything but fight, so that's all he does, even when he's fighting against his allies.

 

[Master Zik]

The facts are that Tony created a problem in Ultron (After some mind manipulation from Scarlet Witch) and then came up with the solution for said problem, via Vision. He also came up with the plan to destroy Ultron's meteor-city. But lets just ignore that and act like Cap did it by himself.

Before it seemed like you were denying it outright. Now it's clear you're making excuses for the fictional corrupt and/or incompetent gov. when it comes to mutant relations.

If making excuses equals judging each instance of Sentinel use and the governments involvement or lack thereof on a case by case basis then yes.

You definitely haven't judged each instance of sentinel use but for the ones you have talked about you've definitely conveniently forgotten what occurred or refused to mention deaths and lessen any fault or blame on the gov. in order to justify their use of sentinels. That can't be anything but making excuses but Ihave no doubt you'll disagree about that.

I don't deny that the government hasn't handled the mutant situation well. But to then go to the far end of the spectrum and say that they instead have a position of trying to destroy the entire race is simply inaccurate.

I never said it was the gov. position or goal to destroy the mutant race. I said they are corrupt and have okayed or turned a blind lie of sentinels using lethal force in America, same way other governments do in other countries when it comes to mutants.

It's no different than irl when it comes to race relations and the racists with in the gov. pushing an agenda from experimenting on black ppl, purposely filling neighborhoods with drugs, taking Japanese Americans from their homes, destroying the natives to this land, etc.

Let's just call it what it is, Captain America is *** at long-term planning, and therefore never tries to do it. Civil War? We'll figure out another way. AvX? We'll figure out another way. Infinity? We'll figure out another way. Every single time there's a major event that threatens a lot of people, other people work to come up with plans and worst case scenarios and this dude's not willing to make the tough choices and will directly interfer with the plans of other people instead. He's not smart enough to do anything but fight, so that's all he does, even when he's fighting against his allies.

At least we see eye to ey on this

I won't even get in to how dumb an idea it was to say lets completely destroy SHIELD and not let Fury rebuild it. Good thing Fury ignored Cap's dumb *** and did it anyway.

 

[jays25]

The facts are that Tony created a problem in Ultron (After some mind manipulation from Scarlet Witch) and then came up with the solution for said problem, via Vision. He also came up with the plan to destroy Ultron's meteor-city. But lets just ignore that and act like Cap did it by himself.

Before it seemed like you were denying it outright. Now it's clear you're making excuses for the fictional corrupt and/or incompetent gov. when it comes to mutant relations.

If making excuses equals judging each instance of Sentinel use and the governments involvement or lack thereof on a case by case basis then yes.

You definitely haven't judged each instance of sentinel use but for the ones you have talked about you've definitely conveniently forgotten what occurred or refused to mention deaths and lessen any fault or blame on the gov. in order to justify their use of sentinels. That can't be anything but making excuses but Ihave no doubt you'll disagree about that.

I don't deny that the government hasn't handled the mutant situation well. But to then go to the far end of the spectrum and say that they instead have a position of trying to destroy the entire race is simply inaccurate.

I never said it was the gov. position or goal to destroy the mutant race. I said they are corrupt and have okayed or turned a blind lie of sentinels using lethal force in America, same way other governments do in other countries when it comes to mutants.

It's no different than irl when it comes to race relations and the racists with in the gov. pushing an agenda from experimenting on black ppl, purposely filling neighborhoods with drugs, taking Japanese Americans from their homes, destroying the natives to this land, etc.

By each instance I meant the ones that have been mentioned. (Each instance itself would probably take up too much space) But you're just throwing too much blame at the government instead of to all the parties and events responsible. Beyond that, its no different than what I stated yesterday, I don't believe there's anything wrong with Sentinels in theory, just like I don't believe there's anything wrong with the Superhuman Registration Act. But things can and do go wrong with both.

Then it was the other guy from yesterday then, but as I said there's no instance of them turning a blind eye. Sentinel use outside of them just happens, and then the government's reaction to it is never shown. I guess you could say they're turning a blind eye in all these instances, but I don't see that as anything more than speculation veering towards the negative.

However similar to the Captain America vs Iron Man debate I don't see there being an agreement here, so its whatever.

 

[nomnom]

Anyone cop D23 expo tickets?

 

[everysingletime]

Let's all be real. Cap >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stan Lee's cameos >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the female extra looking through the window in A1 > Iron Man

Cap: Big man, in a suit of armor. Take that away and what are you?

Iron Man: Genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist. Nothing.

 

[everysingletime]

Anyone cop D23 expo tickets?

I would. If I was on the west coast.

I will probably plan a trip the summer before Infinity War.