To Everyone Who Seems to Love "Inception" and Even "The Matrix" You Should Read Plato's "The Cave"

[nako xl]

Nothing these movies are doing is really original but simply different ways of looking at an old idea/concept.

I think this is a general and big enough concept that it deserves its own thread as opposed to being clunked in to one of the threads that are rather a branch off of it as opposed to vice versa.  We've discussed it on here before, but after reading through the Inception thread and speaking to a few people I realize most aren't really familiar with the allegory so for those who are interested in this type of stuff

Plato imagines a group of people who have lived chained in a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall by things passing in front of a fire behind them, and begin to ascribe forms to these shadows. According to Plato, the shadows are as close as the prisoners get to seeing reality. He then explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner who is freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall are not constitutive of reality at all, as he can perceive the true form of reality rather than the mere shadows seen by the prisoners.


A real elementary breakdown of this philosophical idea is that we do not actually live our lives, but rather spend it watching projections and shadows playing on a wall (sort of like watching a movie, living in the Matrix, or even living a dream) and that it is not until we are able to realize this can we finally break free, leave the cave, and view the world as it really is.

 

[nako xl]

Nothing these movies are doing is really original but simply different ways of looking at an old idea/concept.

I think this is a general and big enough concept that it deserves its own thread as opposed to being clunked in to one of the threads that are rather a branch off of it as opposed to vice versa.  We've discussed it on here before, but after reading through the Inception thread and speaking to a few people I realize most aren't really familiar with the allegory so for those who are interested in this type of stuff

Plato imagines a group of people who have lived chained in a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall by things passing in front of a fire behind them, and begin to ascribe forms to these shadows. According to Plato, the shadows are as close as the prisoners get to seeing reality. He then explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner who is freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall are not constitutive of reality at all, as he can perceive the true form of reality rather than the mere shadows seen by the prisoners.


A real elementary breakdown of this philosophical idea is that we do not actually live our lives, but rather spend it watching projections and shadows playing on a wall (sort of like watching a movie, living in the Matrix, or even living a dream) and that it is not until we are able to realize this can we finally break free, leave the cave, and view the world as it really is.

 

[Trey Bantz]

What I got from "The Cave" is that he who escapes this metaphorical "cave" and is enlightened with true knowledge of the world around them has the duty of going back into the cave to enlighten the other prisoners and liberate them from the darkness. I believe that Plato was basically outlining every philosopher/educator/leader's duty in this world which is to enlighten those in the darkness.

 

[Trey Bantz]

What I got from "The Cave" is that he who escapes this metaphorical "cave" and is enlightened with true knowledge of the world around them has the duty of going back into the cave to enlighten the other prisoners and liberate them from the darkness. I believe that Plato was basically outlining every philosopher/educator/leader's duty in this world which is to enlighten those in the darkness.

 

[faint dj3]

I took Honors Philosophy in college....easiest class EVER lmao.

but all these ideas are so " AAAHHH" sometimes when I think to much about them, thats why you shouldn't think to much about them....you'll go insane.

Just live your life as best as you see fit. Let the universe work itself out...

 

[faint dj3]

I took Honors Philosophy in college....easiest class EVER lmao.

but all these ideas are so " AAAHHH" sometimes when I think to much about them, thats why you shouldn't think to much about them....you'll go insane.

Just live your life as best as you see fit. Let the universe work itself out...

 

[bamez]

Whomever hasn't heard or read about the cave before went to a really bad school

 

[bamez]

Whomever hasn't heard or read about the cave before went to a really bad school

 

[Trey Bantz]

Originally Posted by bamez

Whomever hasn't heard or read about the cave before went to a really bad school

You'd be surprised.

 

[Nujavez]

forgot all about this. I remember reading this in high school and again in college.

 

[Nujavez]

forgot all about this. I remember reading this in high school and again in college.

 

[Trey Bantz]

Originally Posted by bamez

Whomever hasn't heard or read about the cave before went to a really bad school

You'd be surprised.

 

[d723]

u got it Trey... Im a philosophy major and feel like everyone who wishes to lead a better and more ethical life should read The Republic

 

[d723]

u got it Trey... Im a philosophy major and feel like everyone who wishes to lead a better and more ethical life should read The Republic

 

[blazinrook]

now something so deep as what OP and trey just said is appreciated....it got straight to the point no games....

what inception did was too much...i liked the "idea", but i felt it was just made to be so complex to deliberately confuse people.

 

[blazinrook]

now something so deep as what OP and trey just said is appreciated....it got straight to the point no games....

what inception did was too much...i liked the "idea", but i felt it was just made to be so complex to deliberately confuse people.

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by blazinRook

now something so deep as what OP and trey just said is appreciated....it got straight to the point no games....

what inception did was too much...i liked the "idea", but i felt it was just made to be so complex to deliberately confuse people.

All I'll say about inception in this thread (i should probably copy and post this particular statement in the official Inception thread anyway):

The thing is the story in Inception was deliberately told the way it was to leave you wondering what happened.  The entire movie is just a buildup to the gimmick at the end, and I'm cool with that.  I enjoyed it and have read up on and seen enough postmodernist art to appreciate that.

But it's rough for some people to accept that the film is about planting an idea and watching it grow in a person, yet the entire time they're watching the film the director Nolan is planting the idea, the question, "is what I'm seeing real or a dream" in the viewers leaving them confused and wondering at the end.  Like Cobb himself says in the film "the inception is most effective when the subject thinks they came up with the idea themselves" and we're left wondering if we came up with these questions ourselves while in reality Nolan and the cast were feeding us those questions the entire movie.

 

[nako xl]

Originally Posted by blazinRook

now something so deep as what OP and trey just said is appreciated....it got straight to the point no games....

what inception did was too much...i liked the "idea", but i felt it was just made to be so complex to deliberately confuse people.

All I'll say about inception in this thread (i should probably copy and post this particular statement in the official Inception thread anyway):

The thing is the story in Inception was deliberately told the way it was to leave you wondering what happened.  The entire movie is just a buildup to the gimmick at the end, and I'm cool with that.  I enjoyed it and have read up on and seen enough postmodernist art to appreciate that.

But it's rough for some people to accept that the film is about planting an idea and watching it grow in a person, yet the entire time they're watching the film the director Nolan is planting the idea, the question, "is what I'm seeing real or a dream" in the viewers leaving them confused and wondering at the end.  Like Cobb himself says in the film "the inception is most effective when the subject thinks they came up with the idea themselves" and we're left wondering if we came up with these questions ourselves while in reality Nolan and the cast were feeding us those questions the entire movie.

 

[toowise]

Read in high school but didn't really pay attention.. I think I'm going to have to re-read this.

 

[toowise]

Read in high school but didn't really pay attention.. I think I'm going to have to re-read this.

 

[Deleted member 38307]

Read it.

 

[Deleted member 38307]

Read it.

 

[mc otaku]

read this in Econ 12th grade. cool story bro.

 

[mc otaku]

read this in Econ 12th grade. cool story bro.

 

[duba169]

didn't they freak out and try to kill the enlightened one when he returned to the cave to tell them of the real world? or am I remembering it wrong?