THEE OFFICIAL 2019-2020 NBA OFFSEASON THREAD: VICTORY LAP

[JD617]

That’s not what MVP said . He basically said....what MJ did in his first 9 seasons...is equivalent to what Bron has done so far in his career. Which means...be great enough to be in that convo.

Mike then doubled back...and did it....AGAIN . That’s why the 2nd 3peat is really what solidified it....and put the “gap” between the others not named Kareem.

These are literally his exact words.

If you just take MJ's 1st 9 years in the league (before 1st retirement) he'd still likely be considered the GOAT

 

[HIM]

What y’all on?

 

[dacomeup]

I THINK what dacomeup is referring to is who's better as a pure basketball player and that THAT's close not necessarily who's greater or has had a greater career

Yea, exactly. I can concede that no one had a better career than MJ. Even Kareem had a better career accolades than LeBron. But I don’t think there’s any basketball player who is clearly better than LeBron James in terms of basketball talent.

 

[niceshoes247]

My boy needs a tan

What y’all on?

 

[lawdog1]

Mike beat the crap out of plumbers that's for sure.

HIM - you mentioned LeBron coming up in a “more cynical” era than Jordan, but at the same time recency bias has never been greater. See above.

In the 80s and 90s we thought the players of our era were better than in the past, but we weren’t going out of our way to constantly **** on Bob Cousy, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, etc. That’s a new thing that seems to work in favor of current players, including LeBron.

Other old timers feel free to tell me if you remember things differently.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

A lot of people feel the same when someone says “LeBron is Top 3-5 all-time” as if it’s disrespect. Jalen Rose even talked about this (I think wavycrocket has the link)

I'm willing to be charitable about different opinions. But somethings are too wrong for me to take seriously.

LeBron is obviously top 3-5 all time, it's not a question that needs to be seriously debated.

It's Lebron, Kareem, MJ, Bill Russell in whatever order you want but it's those 4 period.


Jalen Rose also thinks MJ would score 45 points a game, also the same dude who keeps mentioning Wilt when any close reading of the numbers tells you he's not in the convo.

 

[MVP]

*****s have ZERO problem with saying LeBron is “clearly” better than Shaq/Kobe/Tim Duncan

But when we say that MJ is clearly better than LeBron...it’s an issue

Cmon mane!

It's ridiculous. His accomplishments are right there with Duncan and Bean and he's won less than both but he's in another tier from both of them.

I'm also trying to figure out even from a pure basketball standpoint how is Bron better. MJ was clearly more skilled from a scoring perspective. A really good playmaker. And a top 3 perimeter defender. Is there 2 games of basketball?

 

[Clyde Frog]

*****s have ZERO problem with saying LeBron is “clearly” better than Shaq/Kobe/Tim Duncan

But when we say that MJ is clearly better than LeBron...it’s an issue

Cmon mane!

the problem is, as you just admitted, is that you are saying “clearly” in the first place.

It just means you clearly have no intention of having a legitimate discussion on the topic in the first place. It is possible by the way. And believe it or not the topic is actually a good one.

Really wish Steph could've come through for once in the Finals, this conversation would have been dead and buried. The Bron/Klutch propaganda went into full clown mode after that.

I mean is there really any point?

 

[Kinfolk]

Mike beat the crap out of plumbers that's for sure.

John Havlicek was a roof repairman on the weekends.

 

[lawdog1]

What y’all on?

I had a brunch Margarita earlier than took a nap. We shall see what’s next...

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Mike beat the crap out of plumbers that's for sure.

yah this is wild wrong.

First 3 peat the league was pretty talented.

 

[wavycrocket]

These are literally his exact words.

Why not pull MVP FULL QUOTE?. You conveniently left out where he said “at worst #2” . That’s exactly how people talk about LeBron today . And he’s saying...MJ in 9 seasons did what Bron did in 17 seasons...even better. So that’s why he’d be in the convo by ‘93.

To put any debate to it...he came BACK and 3peated....AGAIN. Winning 3 finals MVPs and 2mvps in historical fashion .

If you just take MJ's 1st 9 years in the league (before 1st retirement) he'd still likely be considered the GOAT (at worst #2) and better than Bron with 17 seasons of work.

9x all Star
8x all NBA 1st team
7x scoring title
6x all NBA defensive 1st team
3x league MVP
3x Finals MVP
3x steal champ
3 straight chips

That's how not close it is.

The 96-98 run just put him completely out of reach of everybody.

 

[friscostylez]

Everything I was trying to say can be summarized in this photo

Last 2 lines says it all.

Jordan never dominated in a series like Lebron dominated In this series against better competition than Jordan has ever faced.

Your lack of logic is real apparent - 1 playoff series doesn't shadow over a career.

 

[HIM]

1 playoff series doesn't shadow over a career.

Tell that to the 2011 Mavs series folks

 

[wavycrocket]

Like somebody said earlier...people are more in love with the IDEA of LeBron than what the actual outcome is.

He’s the “design an nba player” model we would pick if we could create a basketball player.

But that doesn’t make him “the best”.

 

[darthska]

Side note: don't go in General. Lord jesus...

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Why not pull MVP FULL QUOTE?. You conveniently left out where he said “at worst #2” . That’s exactly how people talk about LeBron today . And he’s saying...MJ in 9 seasons did what Bron did in 17 seasons...even better. So that’s why he’d be in the convo by ‘93.

To put any debate to it...he came BACK and 3peated....AGAIN. Winning 3 finals MVPs and 2mvps in historical fashion .

It's totally bizarre to me that you expect people to put their brains in a jar and just rely on award voting to determine who they think is the GOAT.

"Jordan won DPOY!"

as if im supposed to care that writers in the 90's for some bizarre reason they thought a guard was DPOY.

 

[darthska]

Your lack of logic is real apparent - 1 playoff series doesn't shadow over a career.

I know you weren't replying to me, but there was no need for the insult. Pointing something out as symbolism to one's entire career is intentionally using that reference point to stand for something greater. It's not saying that series IS their entire career, but let's face it, you have to be have a pretty diversified career to lead both teams in an NBA Finals in all major categories.

 

[wavycrocket]

It's totally bizarre to me that you expect people to put their brains in a jar and just rely on award voting to determine who they think is the GOAT.

"Jordan won DPOY!"

as if im supposed to care that writers in the 90's for some bizarre reason they thought a guard was DPOY.

I don’t even know what part of anything I said...has to do with what you quoted . Keep it relevant.

Aint no writers got nothing to do with two different 3 peats and winning .

 

[MVP]

Like somebody said earlier...people are more in love with the IDEA of LeBron than what the actual outcome is.

He’s the “design an nba player” model we would pick if we could create a basketball player.

But that doesn’t make him “the best”.

That was me.

 

[storm2006]

Side note: don't go in General. Lord jesus...

Which threads are you referencing?

 

[darthska]

I’m fine with saying that LeBron is the most talented player I’ve ever seen and MJ had the better career.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I don’t even know what part of anything I said...has to do with what you quoted . Keep it relevant.

Aint no writers got nothing to do with two different 3 peats and winning .

heres the thing, tho winning rings are team accomplishments,

tied to a whole bunch of variables like the quality of comp, it's ALWAYS going to be an argument.


If you argue that MJ is the goat you basically accept this to be true, other wise your goat would be Bill Russel or Kareem...

 

[darthska]

Which threads are you referencing?

 

[JD617]

Why not pull MVP FULL QUOTE?. You conveniently left out where he said “at worst #2” . That’s exactly how people talk about LeBron today . And he’s saying...MJ in 9 seasons did what Bron did in 17 seasons...even better. So that’s why he’d be in the convo by ‘93.

To put any debate to it...he came BACK and 3peated....AGAIN. Winning 3 finals MVPs and 2mvps in historical fashion .

You're trying so hard to miss the point. He's been one of the loudest ring count guys on here for years. He's been saying for years that LeBron hasn't "met the standard" of various greats. He just said a page or two ago that LeBron can't be any higher than 4th AT BEST.

MJ had obviously not done enough by '93 to be considered the GOAT (or #2, so sorry) by his own criteria that he's been holding against LeBron for years.