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Lets see what Jack Z has in mind for some bats... hmmm...
Travis Hafner?
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Lets see what Jack Z has in mind for some bats... hmmm...
That's all there is to it... Figgins is maybe a marginal upgrade offensively, but he's not nearly the defender Beltre is...Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk
Common sense? That's all it is... He's an upgrade, there's no doubt... He's as good or better than a healthy Bedard, and you can count on him taking the mound every five days, but the parameters of this deal are the same as the Bedard one... They've given up some of their best young talent, which they weren't exactly stockpiling to begin with, to rent an ace that it's very probably they'll be unable to re-sign...Originally Posted by finnns2003
About what I expected from you. Offense still needs work but the pitching will be a lot better with Lee over some of the guys that had to replace Bedard.
Are they gonna re-sign Felix and Lee? Are they gonna keep Lee and trade Felix? Are they gonna have to pick one or the other? I believe it's the latter, and if that's the case they're not any better off than when they started...
It's a great move for this year, makes them much more competitive on paper. But they're still not definitively better than the Rangers or Angels and there's no guarantee they're gonna keep Lee around beyond this year and pitching wasn't exactly an issue to begin with... That's all I'm saying... It's nice right now, but so was the Bedard trade... If you're gonna say there's not potential for this to blow up in their faces, I dunno what to tell you...
The M's HAVE to get some offensive power for this team to succeed next season. Figgins will help get that OBP and BA out of the basement a bit but you need someone to drive these guys in.
Rangers pitching is still Rangers pitching
Yeah... Harden, Holland, Feliz, Feldman, and Hunter is the typical Rangers rotation...
And Cameron in Boston means either Ellsbury or Hermida is outta town... Ellsbury, Buchholz and another prospect for Gonzalez? Am I the only one that doesn't love Ellsbury? Typical fast centerfielder... Meh...
Harden? LOL and you talk about Lee. You guys will not get Erik Be.... Rich Harden to start an entire season.
I don't think Jack Z is done. He's said as much.
As for Lee, no reason we can't snag him after a successful 2010 season. If he likes Seattle, has success in a pitchers park, and gets to play along KingFelix, he could re-sign. You act like the M's are the Pirates and don't have a lot of money freeing up. We can afford a high payroll.
Originally Posted by CP1708
I wonder if they gonna use Figgins in the leadoff spot and ask their hero to bat third and drive in runs.
I'd be impressed if Ichiro actually did it.
Thing is, a very small part of me puts faith in our skipper that we'll still be in the mix for the AL West crown.
I mean, when we won the WS, it was w/ a bunch of virtual nobodies. When they all left (Washburn, Erstad, Garret, Spiezio, Kennedy, Glaus, the Molinas, etc.), it's not like they left and tore it up on their new teams.
Sure, Jose Molina is awesome for the Evil Empire, and Eckstein went on to be a WS MVP (major props to him on that), but no one else really did anything. And Chone won't either.
Lackey will, but... d'ah well. You know?
We'll see what Scoscia and Moreno have in store, I guess.
I know i'm super late on this reply Ska, but I mean, maybe it hurts more cuz Figgins is on our division rival, we got rid of Vlad, signed Matsui (whom Ihate), and Lackey went to the HATED Red Sox.
Times are tough in Angel-land. But ey, at least the new Jumbotron in the Big A is finally complete, #%$% is beautiful to look at driving on the 57:/
What does Harden have anything to do with anything I've said about Lee? The situations are entirely different anyways... If Harden is hurt(Bedard), the Rangers aren't out anything because they didn't give up Jones+Tillman to get him. If he pitches well and leaves for more money (Lee),they still didn't give up somebody with potentially significant long-term value to bring him in...Originally Posted by finnns2003
Harden? LOL and you talk about Lee. You guys will not get Erik Be.... Rich Harden to start an entire season.
I don't think Jack Z is done. He's said as much.
As for Lee, no reason we can't snag him after a successful 2010 season. If he likes Seattle, has success in a pitchers park, and gets to play along King Felix, he could re-sign. You act like the M's are the Pirates and don't have a lot of money freeing up. We can afford a high payroll.
Cliff Lee and Bedard are completely different. Bedard had one good year and then we give up our future star CF and a great All-star setup man,among others. Z is not Bavasi. He knew what we had in those prospects. Two guys that won't amount to what Lee gives us. Aumont, as scouts have said, is atbest going to end up in the bullpen and we already had a solid bullpen and that doesn't even include Josh Fields who you happened to leave out. Then youtalk about getting a lot of deadwood off the books like Batista, Yuni, Beltre, Sexson, and Jokejima. There is still moves to be made, but I would expect you tohope that doesn't happen. After all, you know Guti will only get better and Jose Lopez hit very well last year for a butterball. Branyan isn't going tobe counted on to repeat his performance, I don't know who said he would.Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk
What does Harden have anything to do with anything I've said about Lee? The situations are entirely different anyways... If Harden is hurt (Bedard), the Rangers aren't out anything because they didn't give up Jones+Tillman to get him. If he pitches well and leaves for more money (Lee), they still didn't give up somebody with potentially significant long-term value to bring him in...Originally Posted by finnns2003
Harden? LOL and you talk about Lee. You guys will not get Erik Be.... Rich Harden to start an entire season.
I don't think Jack Z is done. He's said as much.
As for Lee, no reason we can't snag him after a successful 2010 season. If he likes Seattle, has success in a pitchers park, and gets to play along King Felix, he could re-sign. You act like the M's are the Pirates and don't have a lot of money freeing up. We can afford a high payroll.
Zduriencik may not be done, but they're probably not gonna get Matt Holliday and they'd be stupid to give 5 or 6 years to Jason Bay... They don't have much of anything left in that farm system other than Saunders and Ackley, so they're not bringing in some huge bat through trade either... What impact move is left out there for them to make?
The M's may not be the Pirates, but they're not the Yankees or Red Sox either... They've spend most of this decade below $90M, they're not getting much higher than that on a regular basis... Cliff Lee has already said he wants north of $20M per year or he's testing the open market... They gonna pay Lee $20M per over 5 or 6 years then turn around give Felix that same kind of contract on top of the $17M they pay Ichiro and the $9M they pay Figgins? We'll see...
If they don't re-sign him or make a run in the playoffs this year, that deal is a DUD... Period. Try and justify it to yourself all you want, but you've been here just two years ago and had it turn sour...
I forgot about Josh Fields? The guy that got beat around somethin SERIOUS at AA last year?Originally Posted by finnns2003
Cliff Lee and Bedard are completely different. Bedard had one good year and then we give up our future star CF and a great All-star setup man, among others. Z is not Bavasi. He knew what we had in those prospects. Two guys that won't amount to what Lee gives us. Aumont, as scouts have said, is at best going to end up in the bullpen and we already had a solid bullpen and that doesn't even include Josh Fields who you happened to leave out. Then you talk about getting a lot of deadwood off the books like Batista, Yuni, Beltre, Sexson, and Jokejima. There is still moves to be made, but I would expect you to hope that doesn't happen. After all, you know Guti will only get better and Jose Lopez hit very well last year for a butterball. Branyan isn't going to be counted on to repeat his performance, I don't know who said he would.
In any case, I expect a lineup with Ichiro, Figgins, Gutierrez, Lopez, possibly Ackley at 2nd, and another player Z grabs to make much improvements over last year's offense. No more Yuni pop-ups, Beltre whiffing at outside breaking balls, etc.
Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk
I forgot about Josh Fields? The guy that got beat around somethin SERIOUS at AA last year?Originally Posted by finnns2003
Cliff Lee and Bedard are completely different. Bedard had one good year and then we give up our future star CF and a great All-star setup man, among others. Z is not Bavasi. He knew what we had in those prospects. Two guys that won't amount to what Lee gives us. Aumont, as scouts have said, is at best going to end up in the bullpen and we already had a solid bullpen and that doesn't even include Josh Fields who you happened to leave out. Then you talk about getting a lot of deadwood off the books like Batista, Yuni, Beltre, Sexson, and Jokejima. There is still moves to be made, but I would expect you to hope that doesn't happen. After all, you know Guti will only get better and Jose Lopez hit very well last year for a butterball. Branyan isn't going to be counted on to repeat his performance, I don't know who said he would.
In any case, I expect a lineup with Ichiro, Figgins, Gutierrez, Lopez, possibly Ackley at 2nd, and another player Z grabs to make much improvements over last year's offense. No more Yuni pop-ups, Beltre whiffing at outside breaking balls, etc.Oops, musta slipped my mind...
That 'deadwood' coming off the books is what had the Mariners believing they were contenders with a payroll around $120M... They're not going to operate that far above $100M year in and year out... They'll probably settle somewhere between $90-100M on an annual basis...
Gutierrez will be better, don't know how much, but he'll probably never be better than average offensively. And he's really the only guy on that roster you can look at and really expect to improve in 2010... Jose Lopez?He sucks. You know he sucks. And Dustin Ackley at 2nd? HUH?
And I'm not sitting here hoping they don't make moves... I'm just sitting here looking at things trying to figure out where exactly you think an impact move for that lineup is going to come from...
At this point anything Guti does offensively is a huge boost to the amount of runs he saves during games with his D. He was robbed of a gold glovelast season and I think he'll rack up a few before it's all said and done. His .283 average with 70 RBI can surely improve, especially if Figgins andIchiro are on base as much as they should be.Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk
Jose Lopez rocks a .300 career on-base percentage and .715 OPS and he's not very good defensively... Maybe sucks is a tad strong, but he's not very good...
Gutierrez was never some premier offensive talent even in the minor leagues... He's 27 and still doesn't hit for much power... Bill James and other prediction systems have him predicted at pretty much the same level of output as last year and you expect him to make some gigantic leap to a level he's NEVER played to at the age of 27? And I'm the one hoping...
I think CP meant Ichiro actually willing to do it. I love Ichiro and everything but I agree with CP, I'd be real surprised and impressed ifIchiro was willing to move out of that leadoff spot.Originally Posted by dland24
Originally Posted by CP1708
I wonder if they gonna use Figgins in the leadoff spot and ask their hero to bat third and drive in runs.
I'd be impressed if Ichiro actually did it.
Just so we are clear.....are you saying you would be impressed if Ichiro COULD be a good 3 hitter and drive in runs or are you saying you would be impressed if he was WILLING to give up his leadoff spot and move to third?
Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk
Lopez at DH or 1B? He's even more terrible at either of those spots... At least his bat is manageable at 2nd... He's terrible as a first baseman or DH..
Unless they sign Bay or Holliday, I don't see anybody available that's going to make that offense much better next year...
Originally Posted by DsLee559
I think CP meant Ichiro actually willing to do it. I love Ichiro and everything but I agree with CP, I'd be real surprised and impressed if Ichiro was willing to move out of that leadoff spot.Originally Posted by dland24
Originally Posted by CP1708
I wonder if they gonna use Figgins in the leadoff spot and ask their hero to bat third and drive in runs.
I'd be impressed if Ichiro actually did it.
Just so we are clear.....are you saying you would be impressed if Ichiro COULD be a good 3 hitter and drive in runs or are you saying you would be impressed if he was WILLING to give up his leadoff spot and move to third?
It'll definitely end all the speculation of him caring more about his numbers than winning.
Also, I always hear about how Ichiro could hit 30+ homeruns a season if he was asked to, well now would be the time to ask him.
His streak of 200 hit seasons is AWESOME, but unfortunately, the Mariners' streak of missing the post season is anything but that.
About Dustin Ackley, is he even ready? I'd rather have him develop into a Mark Tex instead of rushing him into being one.