"The Last Dance" Michael Jordan & Chicago Bulls Docuseries

[DCAllAfrican]

Ho Grant? Bahahahahah

That was his name on the SUbstitution Screen of NBA Live 95.

We called him Ho Grant and the twin Ha Grant

 

[Master Zik]

He's a bully and has petty ways with people. He'd probably be bought up on charges if he played in this era.

Our definitions of "terrible" might be a little different too.

This just comes off as some charged in the moment exaggeration.

Charges? For what?

Dudes acting like Jordan actually starved teammates when he told a server they don't get to eat.

Yeah we definitely got a different definition of terrible. Bully and petty is long way from terrible to me.

 

[paulwest1985]

For the woman at the end of the trailer that loss what appears to be a family member, it is not Nike’s fault or their responsibility that your loved one died over a pair of Jordan’s. At the end of the day it is the responsibility of that person or persons that took her family members life. If she wants to get on the news or wants to blame someone find fault in the stupidity of the person that killed your loved one in the first place over a pair of shoes. Focus your energy on that person where it belongs.

That’s like me being mad because I don’t own or drive a Ferrari and then I kill someone for having a Ferrari. Then I or the family member of the person I kill comes out and says Ferrari needs to make their cars more affordable for everyone to have and own.

Agreed. I feel for her and everyone else out there who lost a loved one over shoes. But it ain't the company's fault. Growing up in the 90's I was never allowed to wear expensive sneakers.

 

[Master Zik]

For the woman at the end of the trailer that loss what appears to be a family member, it is not Nike’s fault or their responsibility that your loved one died over a pair of Jordan’s. At the end of the day it is the responsibility of that person or persons that took her family members life. If she wants to get on the news or wants to blame someone find fault in the stupidity of the person that killed your loved one in the first place over a pair of shoes. Focus your energy on that person where it belongs.

That’s like me being mad because I don’t own or drive a Ferrari and then I kill someone for having a Ferrari. Then I or the family member of the person I kill comes out and says Ferrari needs to make their cars more affordable for everyone to have and own.

And to add to that the only step further would be criticizing the sneaker culture that creates such a fever pitch of obsession over these sneakers to the point ppl are being killed over them.

You step back and think about it and its just stupid.

 

[Cashflow]

 

[addictedtosole]

The only person I consider terrible from that documentary is that rapist Karl Malone.

malone nasty with them elbows....knocked out david robinson out cold. other players say he play dirty...then he trying to make moves with kobe's wife. smhhh

 

[paulwest1985]

malone nasty with them elbows....knocked out david robinson out cold. other players say he play dirty...then he trying to make moves with kobe's wife. smhhh

And don't forget that time he hit Isaiah Thomas in mid air and damn near split his face.

 

[lamekilla]

But it isn't he said she said because the AUTHOR of the book is the one who threw Horace under the bus

The rumor mill has always been around Horace Grant which is unfair only because he was the teammate that was the most vocal about not being enamored with MJ even at the peak of his career. He is right in that Sam Smith needed multiple sources to publish the book. Mind you he had worked for the Tribune and WGN so he had inside access to the Bulls locker room for years to gain trust. The book, I had years back from a cheap eBay big is comical because beyond the drama of Michel Jordan not being the most loved team player there are recounts of weird moments of comradeship like Bill Cartwright cooking for the team or weird freestyle competitions on the bus about the events of practice or a recent game. The book essentially tells you the players that aided in the book by how they’re portrayed which is sympathetically. Horace is one of the figures who gets mentioned often in the book, BJ Armstrong is another which makes his comment on the documentary about how Horace couldn’t have been the only one to give info on the book more notable. The 3rd one is the person who I always thought gave the most info as it pertained to the dealings with the players...Stacey King. His wife even has quotes in the book. Coincidence that he wasn’t in The Last Dance? Also, the reason why Michael Jordan and the Bulls organization allowed the tell-all to essentially go away as opposed to vehemently deny any of the allegations? Not because they weren’t true but because King’s agent smoothed things over. King’s agent you ask....David Falk.....Michale Jordan’s agent as well.....

Yea I am saying that doesn't matter to him. He wants to clear the air.

Of course MOST people will side with MJ either way (see this thread, he can do no wrong even when he is clearly wrong) but some WILL side with Ho Grant and start to see Jordan for what he is.

Nobody will ever side with Horace Grant as it pertains to the subject because the overarching narrative is that it’s perfect. Everything Michael did whether it was uncalled for or not resulted in 6 championships in one decade for Michael Jordan and 3 championships for Horace Grant for playing alongside him. If even one of those finals series were lost or another player not named Michael Jordan was the Finals MVP in one of those Finals series, then Horace has the floor and complete attention. But again, he was the supporting character to the greatest ball player ever. That truth is etched in stone.

Where did Sam Smith actually say that Horace Grant was the source? I've never seen it. I thought it was just implied by everyone.

Also John Bach was supposed to have been the real leak, that's why he was fired after a few seasons. I heard that Phil was the one that threw him under the bus.

I’ve heard the John Bach story too but it was under the guise that he was after the HC position and Krause was entertaining it because of the defensive schemes Bach was creating being the way the league was moving and Tex had to come to bat for Phil. That was the start of the tension between Phil and Krause and the fuse being lit for getting a new Bulls coach.

 

[Girl Thats Jules]

The rumor mill has always been around Horace Grant which is unfair only because he was the teammate that was the most vocal about not being enamored with MJ even at the peak of his career. He is right in that Sam Smith needed multiple sources to publish the book. Mind you he had worked for the Tribune and WGN so he had inside access to the Bulls locker room for years to gain trust. The book, I had years back from a cheap eBay big is comical because beyond the drama of Michel Jordan not being the most loved team player there are recounts of weird moments of comradeship like Bill Cartwright cooking for the team or weird freestyle competitions on the bus about the events of practice or a recent game. The book essentially tells you the players that aided in the book by how they’re portrayed which is sympathetically. Horace is one of the figures who gets mentioned often in the book, BJ Armstrong is another which makes his comment on the documentary about how Horace couldn’t have been the only one to give info on the book more notable. The 3rd one is the person who I always thought gave the most info as it pertained to the dealings with the players...Stacey King. His wife even has quotes in the book. Coincidence that he wasn’t in The Last Dance? Also, the reason why Michael Jordan and the Bulls organization allowed the tell-all to essentially go away as opposed to vehemently deny any of the allegations? Not because they weren’t true but because King’s agent smoothed things over. King’s agent you ask....David Falk.....Michale Jordan’s agent as well.....



Nobody will ever side with Horace Grant as it pertains to the subject because the overarching narrative is that it’s perfect. Everything Michael did whether it was uncalled for or not resulted in 6 championships in one decade for Michael Jordan and 3 championships for Horace Grant for playing alongside him. If even one of those finals series were lost or another player not named Michael Jordan was the Finals MVP in one of those Finals series, then Horace has the floor and complete attention. But again, he was the supporting character to the greatest ball player ever. That truth is etched in stone.



I’ve heard the John Bach story too but it was under the guise that he was after the HC position and Krause was entertaining it because of the defensive schemes Bach was creating being the way the league was moving and Tex had to come to bat for Phil. That was the start of the tension between Phil and Krause and the fuse being lit for getting a new Bulls coach.

Great post all-the-way around.

So, Jim Cleamons replaced Johnny Bach. Bach was the one behind the pressing and trapping defense. I wonder how he would have coached the 96-98 teams. They were old and could not have played defense like that. (they did trap sometimes) The 96-98 teams had Harper and Rodman which added versatility but they were also old.

 

[Hunnynutcheerios]

I thought the documentary was awesome and lo key sad its over but i heard they are going to be airing a "movie" with some footage they didnt show.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

lamekilla

People in this thread "side" with Horace Grant on this issue, so not sure why you think "nobody will side with Grant."

Again, it doesn't matter what people believe, I will never tell someone they shouldn't speak their truth because nobody is going to believe them.

If we took that approach in everyday life, that would make for a society of complacent individuals.

 

[babyface34]

I thought the documentary was awesome and lo key sad its over but i heard they are going to be airing a "movie" with some footage they didnt show.

They're airing the game footage from the '98 Finals that was shot on film. The director also said they have more than enough material for additional episodes. Whether they decide to do that or not is another story.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I guess Scottie is a b**** too huh? -

 

[walkingBred]

The new party that you want to be invited to, is the one that LeBron throws, not that of Micheal Jordan. Outside of his shoes and the memories, there really, truly, isn't anything progressive about Jordan. He simply isn't that it guy anymore. All this documentary has done, is to move the needle a bit so that people can be reminded of what was.

It seems that many people cannot allow their heroes to be human, wanting them to be forever infallible.

This is funny

 

[lamekilla]

lamekilla

People in this thread "side" with Horace Grant on this issue, so not sure why you think "nobody will side with Grant."

Again, it doesn't matter what people believe, I will never tell someone they shouldn't speak their truth because nobody is going to believe them.

If we took that approach in everyday life, that would make for a society of complacent individuals.

You know how NT works, there are contrarians first the sake of an argument. And that’s not to say their isn’t personal conviction, but more so to extend the conversation. We have people in this very thread and the NBA thread still trying to find some type of on court merit to give to Lebron James over Michael Jordan when there really isn’t any if you aren’t trying to skew facts. Horace is doing the same thing. He’s getting to the point where he’ll skew facts to make his points by calling Mike a snitch or call the whole doc BS because he didn’t care for the light he was portrayed in and it’s understandable. He can take umbrage with Mike and how he maestro’d this doc for his brand all day but the truth is there and he doesn’t have to take on the brand of Michael Jordan for the sake of............still being the supporting character at the end of the day. His truth are his truth but the narrative has been created. But like stated earlier those that know, know and appreciate.

Mike, Scottie and Horace > Mike, Scottie and Dennis

 

[wavycrocket]

Something about the way Horace was speaking, in the last dance....ain’t sit right with me. Yo seem funny style.

 

[lamekilla]

I guess Scottie is a b**** too huh? -

The depiction of Scottie in the doc was to put to rest any thought that Pippen’s talent was on par with Mike. Mike let everyone know that Scottie didn’t have the fortitude to do it without him. Scottie shouldn’t be upset at that because he’s embraced the idea that he is the greatest running mate ever.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

The depiction of Scottie in the doc was to put to rest any thought that Pippen’s talent was on par with Mike. Mike let everyone know that Scottie didn’t have the fortitude to do it without him. Scottie shouldn’t be upset at that because he’s embraced the idea that he is the greatest running mate ever.

When was that EVER a thought?

 

[lamekilla]

When was that EVER a thought?

You’ve never heard a Jordan hater mention the Bulls never being a .500 team before Scottie came? Or that Mike couldn’t get past the Pistons until Pippen was ready? Scottie Pippen might be the most underrated basketball player in history and nobody knows that better than Mike so he put any glimmer of that narrative to bed. When Dennis Rodman says that prime Scottie Pippen is better than Lebron James and Lebron James is constantly in the best player ever argument, that means something.....

 

[Arthur Shelby]

 

[lazyj10]

My wife has barely stopped laughing at the food poisoning/pizza nonsense.

Can we really say that the most famous guy on the planet the night before a big game was poisoned and there were all these rumors and no-one looked into it l? The police weren’t involved? The FBI weren’t investigating gamblers interfering? The NBA didn’t look into it?

It’s pretty ridiculous really. A hangover makes much more sense and flu or food poisoning is just a convenient excuse.

have any of ya'll had a real hangover...like a real, real one? Once you get to sweating and doing something physical, you normalize back to yourself. A hangover becomes an exercise against hydration. You don't think they could have strapped him up to an IV and or pumped him full of electrolytes/Gatorade? He looked like **** during and throughout that game. The other thing is, food poisoning or whatever can happen without being intentional. Dudes acting like this is mutually exclusive relationship. Maybe a combo of 5 cigars some miller lites and the pizza just did it.

I've been to Utah enough times. Hard as hell to get drunk drunk in that state. Unless he had his security team drive to Wendover to load up on some Henny, I highly doubt it was a hangover.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

You’ve never heard a Jordan hater mention the Bulls never being a .500 team before Scottie came? Or that Mike couldn’t get past the Pistons until Pippen was ready? Scottie Pippen might be the most underrated basketball player in history and nobody knows that better than Mike so he put any glimmer of that narrative to bed. When Dennis Rodman says that prime Scottie Pippen is better than Lebron James and Lebron James is constantly in the best player ever argument, that means something.....

I have NEVER heard ANYONE say Scottie was ANYwhere close to Jordan.

Never heard a soul say that

 

[DCAllAfrican]

have any of ya'll had a real hangover...like a real, real one? Once you get to sweating and doing something physical, you normalize back to yourself. A hangover becomes an exercise against hydration. You don't think they could have strapped him up to an IV and or pumped him full of electrolytes/Gatorade? He looked like **** during and throughout that game. The other thing is, food poisoning or whatever can happen without being intentional. Dudes acting like this is mutually exclusive relationship. Maybe a combo of 5 cigars some miller lites and the pizza just did it.

I've been to Utah enough times. Hard as hell to get drunk drunk in that state. Unless he had his security team drive to Wendover to load up on some Henny, I highly doubt it was a hangover.

You are missing the point people are calling nonsense about the food poisoning situation.

They are calling the STORY nonsense. The story that Grover told.

Sure, there IS a chance he might have actually been poisoned by food and/or drunk, or a combination of both like you said.

But the "5 Dudes were delivering the Pizza" story is what people are pushing back against.

 

[KHUFU]

How did Karl Malone and rapist get into the same sentence?
Does someone have an article, or is this simply rumor?

Also, for those of you are giving Nike a pass in regard to the killing over their brand of shoe? Really?!
All nike had to do was to release a statement saying that they feel that such acts, were despicable and then beneath the business reputation that they were trying to achieve. However, they said nothing. They saved face JUST LIKE TRUMP, in thinking that the virus would simply go away.

 

[Cashflow]

How did Karl Malone and rapist get into the same sentence?
Does someone have an article, or is this simply rumor?

Also, for those of you are giving Nike a pass in regard to the killing over their brand of shoe? Really?!
All nike had to do was to release a statement saying that they feel that such acts, were despicable and then beneath the business reputation that they were trying to achieve. However, they said nothing. They saved face JUST LIKE TRUMP, in thinking that the virus would simply go away.

You sound absolutely ridiculous and insane