STAY/GET BACK IN SHAPE VOL 3.0 -- A New Niketalk = A New Thread

[jewbacca2]

Bar should be up against your legs from the initial pull.

That's not necessarily true.

 

[ASE]

Bar should be up against your legs from the initial pull.

Drop your *** into a lower seated position prior to your pull.

Try to throw your hips as soon as the weight gets your knees.

Keep the weight as close to your body as possible - you should be ripping your legs from your pulls.



Edit: but, what do I know.

Idk if this is right but it's what I aim for and those things stood out to me when I watched the video.

 

[bwood056]

That's not necessarily true.

Ok.

 

[jewbacca2]

Just made these waffles. They were pretty damn good.

2 servings is
380 calories
4g fat
60g carb
28g protein
10g fiber
6g sugar

 

[bigboss]

Deadlifting is one of those things were theres no universal correct way for everyone, due to leverages, limb lengths, mobility etc. 

For example some people round their upper back every time they pull, others don't until they hit a near max set. Thats when its best to give you some feedback because thats when form will break down.

 

[jewbacca2]

100 percent agreed and Repped^

 

[bigboss]

Here is a prime example of how leverages are CRAZY.

This dude Lamar was at full lockout at his cot damn knees 

 

[jewbacca2]

Good lord. The bar moves like 3 inches lol

 

[suavamente]

Just made these waffles. They were pretty damn good.

2 servings is
380 calories
4g fat
60g carb
28g protein
10g fiber
6g sugar

power cakes damn good. Use them as batter for chicken/fish sometimes = $$ costco the plug

 

[bwood056]

Good lord. The bar moves like 3 inches lol

He's shaved and chalked up to keep the weight against his body.

It's not a "not always" thing to argue on..

Heavy weight needs to be against your body during movements...

But...

What do I know.

 

[ooiron manoo]

I put it in spoilers to spare the masses, wall of text, you've been warned.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

This. I can't stress enough how crossfit is, for all intents and purposes, a sport more than a training style. The idea of going HAM on crossfit workouts to either get bigger or lean out is really misguided. Good crossfit athletes work on skills, conditioning, and regression most of the week and then push all-out crossfit work to prep for competition.

Trying to get in shape by doing heavy technical lifts to exhaustion could either get you hurt right away, or somewhere down the line. And it might yield some results at first but not long-lasting.

I would find a strength and conditioning facility to train at, or find a crossfit box that offers some 1 on 1 coaching with experienced instructors if you're really interested in the sport of crossfit. If you just want to get in shape, just start reading, researching and iust get in the gym and do what you're comfortable with in the meantime.

There is a major difference between a CrossFit workout and CrossFit programming. The good thing and bad thing about CrossFit workouts and programming is that it's open source. Have you studied programming enough to formulate an opinion? For example, and this is just one example, take a look at Invictus programming. How it's leveled and structured, go back about a month and break it down.

I usually don't find issues with people thinking that all CF affiliates do is... Monday Fran, Tuesday Grace, Wednesday Angie, Friday Murph...

The problem lies in the fact that you are a professional, and your opinion and the way you guide your clients is completely unprofessional.

If someone asks me they are interested in a personal training session at a commercial gym, what do you recommend? My answer would be "You know, I don't know much about what they do, but I recommend you go to LA Fitness (closes commercial gym in my area) and talk to some of the trainers and see if that works for you". That's professional advice, I don't know what PT's do at commercial gyms . I can easily tell that person "Hmmm, I don't recommend you go that route, all they will do is walk you from machine to machine with a one size fits all program that they run all their clients through, and once your hour is up, they'll blow you off". However, I don't have a clue as to what you do and what type of programming you have for your clients.

Now, what I can tell you is that most good gyms will have a benchmark workout (Fran, Grace, etc), roughly once every 3-4 weeks and a Hero Workout about once every 3 to 4 months (Especially Memorial Day, Veterans Day, 4th of July).

The notion that a novice lifter is going to come in and start throwing 225 pound Clean and Jerks is asinine, . We do assessments of new clients just the way you probably do. Most get run through a 4-6 session fundamentals session where all they use is a PVC pipe, dumbells and kettlebells.

You program for your best athletes and you scale for the rest, it is our job and duty to scale appropriately for every client, including the most stubborn (usually former athletes).

Now one thing that we do that you obviously don't is that we care for our clients whether they are in our class or outside of our class hours. We don't charge by the hour so if I see a client doing something wrong or something I don't agree with, I won't let him go through with it... at least without me giving him some advice. Which is one thing you admitted to when you saw your client use the Smith Machine, but you let it slide and you made note to point it out during your next session when he's on the clock again.

The idea that you CANT bulk up and lean out on CF workouts is absurd, and short sighted. Considering 99% of people outside of CF don't have a clue about programming and how it works and how it's structured.

You don't need 1 on 1 sessions (That's the PT in you talking and the small group setting has been proven to be successful along with CF programming. Proof is in the pudding.

You're still not answering my question. Just being condescending. If you can criticize someone and explain why, I get it but to just be cryptic and snide just seems like trolling.

Pick any crossfit workout you want that's a known crossfit workout: Fran, Grace, 15.1, Filthy 50... You've got people watching this on the crossfit games or reading one article on it and running around a commercial gym trying to throw up Olympic lifts and heavy barbell work with no clue how to do it cause they think they'll look like Rich Froning at the end of it. That's what I'm referring to, not "crossfit bashing".

First your issue shouldn't be with CF and it's methodology, it should be with the commercial gyms, once which employs you, trying to make an extra buck. If you want true CF training, go to an affiliate, research their programming, look up their trainers and try out their gym (most have free trials). If you decide to do it on your own with no training whatsoever, then we hope the odds are forever in your favor.

People have been doing the latter for a long time. They look at fashion magazines, health magazines, body building magazines, sports, etc. They come to trainers and say I want to look like "x" person, how can I make that happen? Don't pretend that's a new phenomenon that CF created because it didn't You're a long time PT, you're telling me your clients have never came to you and said I want to look like "x", if you say no, then that's ********. . Although those are in the minority. The majority of folks will come just saying they want to get in better shape and get off the couch.

It's our job to set realistic expectations. "Can I look like Rich Froning?" (Most don't care about the performance aspect, initially). "Yes you can, but it's going to take a lot of hard work. It's not going to happen overnight."... "How long will it take?"... "Well, he's been the CF Games Champ for 4 years, so 4 years..." ... "4 years!" ... "The year he came in second, so add another year"... "5 years!!!"... "...and prior to that he was an S&C coach"... "so more than 6-7 years"... "Oh yeah, while he doesn't have a diet, he loathes grains"... "No bread!!!"... "Also, he works out 6-7 days a week, multiple times a day".... "Wha?!?!?"

I love that conversation, you can borrow it

Most CF Games athletes have coaches, most do strength cycles, most do oly cycles, most work on gymnastics, most work out multiple times a day (a workout can be as short as 5 minutes, FYI) along with MetCons/HIITT/Whatever you want to call it.

One thing I love about CF is how it is constantly evolving... what's a CF workout? Ask 10 people you'll get 10 answers.

You value mine the most.

Luke, I am your father. 

Not the most but I do value it,

Xfit...without sounding like a complete a hole. Some people should lose weight first and learn control. Before going in and thinking all you do is lift it up and slam it on the ground.

And yes ive seen people doing deadlifts. Standing and dropping it from mid air. And doing that for 10 reps.
Im sorry ill never understand the point of dropping weights from mid air. On a deadlift.

So you should lose weight before losing weight, . I disagree. Easy there old man, all that bar slamming hurting your ear drums. Honestly though, joking aside, your beef is with your gym. CF has no business having a "section". You should take it up with management, seriously.

It took a long time to let go of this, but I finally adopted the notion that if it's 85% plus of your 1RM on the DL, let that **** go. Even if you look at the majority of powerlifting videos, once it get's heavy it's just pulling you down with a ton of force. In a comp, since it's a standard, yeah hold on to the bar. In training, dump it.

I still think you misunderstood my initial point. I've seen a fair share of people, usually after the fact, who tried crossfit to try to get "ripped" cause they thought that jumping into that level of intensity would get them there. All I was saying was that that approach was misguided. Same as when I get people who think going to yoga once a week is going to solve all of their mobility issues.
I've done this enough to the point I had to throw out all my regular boxers except for maybe one or two pairs. Like 90% of my underwear now is athletic boxer briefs.

That's a small sample size and CF isn't for everyone especially if they can't handle the beat down mentally. Doing CF 1-2 times a week does nothing for you. Client assessment, be upfront, set realistic expectations.

I have no problem with cross fit movements.. just the fact like everything else in the world its a quick fad that everyone thinks they can do after watching a video or reading a fb post. I would just like to see them actually doing things the correct way. I would say only about 30% of the crossfitters in my gym are doing it right.

But as we've said before. Cant control people and what they do but ill still throw a side eye at people just throwing it up

I do agree with CF being a fad... in commercial gyms. It's a quick money grab, they are losing a dedicated segment of their clientele to all these CF affiliates and it's a knee jerk reaction. The people in commercial gyms doing CF in the CF section, I feel bad for them. I truly do. I actually feel bad for the people that are not into CF that have to witness and deal with that as well. It's a terrible relationship. However, that's what commercial gyms do, they just want your money. They don't give a **** about what you do in there, they don' t give a **** about properly training you. PT's will walk right by you without any advice or assistance, because if you don't book them, they don't give a **** about you either.

However, CF isn't going anywhere. 11,000 affiliates and growing. I do think in time, there will be consolidation and there will be mulitple affiliates under the umbrella of good and solid CF gyms. Meaning there will be more structure. I do think that good gyms outweigh the bad, there are bad affiliates out there, but they are few and far between. This business isn't for the faint of heart, and people that think rolling up the door and waiting for clients to blindly sign up is a recipe for disaster.

Like Durden mentioned, people will do dumb things regardless. Love how people disregard coaching, when all the top athletes have multiple coaches, yet you Mr. Joe Schmo who hasn't lifted since HS has figured out a way to "do it on your own"

CF in commercial gyms will be short lived, too much liability, no instruction.

On top of that, all the old folks that don't understand why people drop weights will just get pissed off and head to their local YMCA where it's a little more quiet.,

Have you tried controlling a 225 pound clean and jerk, ****. People have been slamming bars since before CF, just raise the volume on your Beats.

I can understand a slight kip.

Having your form too strict on "certain" excercises prevents you from liftng weight that you could be lifting/tearing down muscle fiber with.

However, I don't think you should ever kip on a handstand shoulder-press.

That's just me, though.

Your body and mind can do things that you don't allow it too. It doesn't put more strain on the shoulder than a heavy press, push press and/or push jerk. You don't do a HSPU on your head, your head does touch the ground but your hands/arms are controlling the movement. Contracting the core and extending the hips isn't unnatural. The majority of people don't have the strength to do a strict or kipping HSPU.

Therefore the scaled workout was:

10 Push Press
10 Cleans
8 Min AMRAP

You can always scale and modify any workout to fit the profile and/or abilitites of the person you are training.

Bar should be up against your legs from the initial pull.

Drop your *** into a lower seated position prior to your pull.

Try to throw your hips as soon as the weight gets your knees.

Keep the weight as close to your body as possible - you should be ripping your legs from your pulls.



Edit: but, what do I know.

Boom, pretty much. Hard to see from that angle, but it's what I saw as well.

 

[andretti]

My traps are still uneven

I do shrugs with 25 pound dumbbells but maybe it's to heavy or my form

I look in the mirror to see if in doing it right with my body straight as possible but I don't feel that burn
Help?

 

[lolcomin]

My traps are still uneven

I do shrugs with 25 pound dumbbells but maybe it's to heavy or my form

I look in the mirror to see if in doing it right with my body straight as possible but I don't feel that burn
Help?

same but i do them with 45 pound dumbbells

my left arm is lower than my right arm if that helps

 

[boxer15]

With the unevenness, have y'all ever had a doctor tell you that you have scoliosis?

 

[jewbacca2]

Any chance yall are only wearing one shoe?


It happened to the caddy in Happy Gilmore.

 

[suavamente]

Met this freak of nature this weekend... pretty down to earth guy actually

[Video]

 

[dropten]

Met this freak of nature this weekend... pretty down to earth guy actually

[Video]

Those icelandians

 

[durden7]

I'll have to disagree on it not being dangerous on the way up or with the kip. Proper form/full ROM is not only for reaping maximum benefits of whatever excercise you're performing, but most importantly to prevent Injury.

He's exploding in an unnatural movement. Who knows what kind of strain he's putting on his shoulders. I would like to see some of these exercises being performed with some sort of x-ray on specific parts of your body. If that's even possible.

I don't see why I would have a problem with "olympic lifting and their variations", as 80% of my workouts involve exactly that. Mixed in with isolation movements. I never mess with snatches and never will, though. Not for me.

I don't have a problem with anything really. I'll let everybody cook. Simply pointing out why that looks dangerous.

Uhhhhhhh, what?
These two posts dont seem to make sense together.

80% of the workouts are Oly lifts and variations, but never snatching... so youre just cleaning and jerking?

Also, Its not an unnatural movement... AT ALL. Theres probably less strain on the shoulder doing that than the majority of people doing military presses or bench pressing.

 

[durden7]

Deadlifting is one of those things were theres no universal correct way for everyone, due to leverages, limb lengths, mobility etc. 

For example some people round their upper back every time they pull, others don't until they hit a near max set. Thats when its best to give you some feedback because thats when form will break down.

Not every starting position looks exactly the same, but the bar should be pretty damn close to the body at the beginning of the lift. And thats for everyone.

 

[jewbacca2]

Not every starting position looks exactly the same, but the bar should be pretty damn close to the body at the beginning of the lift. And thats for everyone.

Right, it doesn't have to be pressed against your leg.

 

[panaricanretro]

I put it in spoilers to spare the masses, wall of text, you've been warned.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

There is a major difference between a CrossFit workout and CrossFit programming. The good thing and bad thing about CrossFit workouts and programming is that it's open source. Have you studied programming enough to formulate an opinion? For example, and this is just one example, take a look at Invictus programming. How it's leveled and structured, go back about a month and break it down.

I usually don't find issues with people thinking that all CF affiliates do is... Monday Fran, Tuesday Grace, Wednesday Angie, Friday Murph...

The problem lies in the fact that you are a professional, and your opinion and the way you guide your clients is completely unprofessional.

If someone asks me they are interested in a personal training session at a commercial gym, what do you recommend? My answer would be "You know, I don't know much about what they do, but I recommend you go to LA Fitness (closes commercial gym in my area) and talk to some of the trainers and see if that works for you". That's professional advice, I don't know what PT's do at commercial gyms . I can easily tell that person "Hmmm, I don't recommend you go that route, all they will do is walk you from machine to machine with a one size fits all program that they run all their clients through, and once your hour is up, they'll blow you off". However, I don't have a clue as to what you do and what type of programming you have for your clients.

Now, what I can tell you is that most good gyms will have a benchmark workout (Fran, Grace, etc), roughly once every 3-4 weeks and a Hero Workout about once every 3 to 4 months (Especially Memorial Day, Veterans Day, 4th of July).

The notion that a novice lifter is going to come in and start throwing 225 pound Clean and Jerks is asinine, . We do assessments of new clients just the way you probably do. Most get run through a 4-6 session fundamentals session where all they use is a PVC pipe, dumbells and kettlebells.

You program for your best athletes and you scale for the rest, it is our job and duty to scale appropriately for every client, including the most stubborn (usually former athletes).

Now one thing that we do that you obviously don't is that we care for our clients whether they are in our class or outside of our class hours. We don't charge by the hour so if I see a client doing something wrong or something I don't agree with, I won't let him go through with it... at least without me giving him some advice. Which is one thing you admitted to when you saw your client use the Smith Machine, but you let it slide and you made note to point it out during your next session when he's on the clock again.

The idea that you CANT bulk up and lean out on CF workouts is absurd, and short sighted. Considering 99% of people outside of CF don't have a clue about programming and how it works and how it's structured.

You don't need 1 on 1 sessions (That's the PT in you talking and the small group setting has been proven to be successful along with CF programming. Proof is in the pudding.
First your issue shouldn't be with CF and it's methodology, it should be with the commercial gyms, once which employs you, trying to make an extra buck. If you want true CF training, go to an affiliate, research their programming, look up their trainers and try out their gym (most have free trials). If you decide to do it on your own with no training whatsoever, then we hope the odds are forever in your favor.

People have been doing the latter for a long time. They look at fashion magazines, health magazines, body building magazines, sports, etc. They come to trainers and say I want to look like "x" person, how can I make that happen? Don't pretend that's a new phenomenon that CF created because it didn't You're a long time PT, you're telling me your clients have never came to you and said I want to look like "x", if you say no, then that's ********. . Although those are in the minority. The majority of folks will come just saying they want to get in better shape and get off the couch.

It's our job to set realistic expectations. "Can I look like Rich Froning?" (Most don't care about the performance aspect, initially). "Yes you can, but it's going to take a lot of hard work. It's not going to happen overnight."... "How long will it take?"... "Well, he's been the CF Games Champ for 4 years, so 4 years..." ... "4 years!" ... "The year he came in second, so add another year"... "5 years!!!"... "...and prior to that he was an S&C coach"... "so more than 6-7 years"... "Oh yeah, while he doesn't have a diet, he loathes grains"... "No bread!!!"... "Also, he works out 6-7 days a week, multiple times a day".... "Wha?!?!?"

I love that conversation, you can borrow it

Most CF Games athletes have coaches, most do strength cycles, most do oly cycles, most work on gymnastics, most work out multiple times a day (a workout can be as short as 5 minutes, FYI) along with MetCons/HIITT/Whatever you want to call it.

One thing I love about CF is how it is constantly evolving... what's a CF workout? Ask 10 people you'll get 10 answers.
Not the most but I do value it,
So you should lose weight before losing weight, . I disagree. Easy there old man, all that bar slamming hurting your ear drums. Honestly though, joking aside, your beef is with your gym. CF has no business having a "section". You should take it up with management, seriously.

It took a long time to let go of this, but I finally adopted the notion that if it's 85% plus of your 1RM on the DL, let that **** go. Even if you look at the majority of powerlifting videos, once it get's heavy it's just pulling you down with a ton of force. In a comp, since it's a standard, yeah hold on to the bar. In training, dump it.
That's a small sample size and CF isn't for everyone especially if they can't handle the beat down mentally. Doing CF 1-2 times a week does nothing for you. Client assessment, be upfront, set realistic expectations.
I do agree with CF being a fad... in commercial gyms. It's a quick money grab, they are losing a dedicated segment of their clientele to all these CF affiliates and it's a knee jerk reaction. The people in commercial gyms doing CF in the CF section, I feel bad for them. I truly do. I actually feel bad for the people that are not into CF that have to witness and deal with that as well. It's a terrible relationship. However, that's what commercial gyms do, they just want your money. They don't give a **** about what you do in there, they don' t give a **** about properly training you. PT's will walk right by you without any advice or assistance, because if you don't book them, they don't give a **** about you either.

However, CF isn't going anywhere. 11,000 affiliates and growing. I do think in time, there will be consolidation and there will be mulitple affiliates under the umbrella of good and solid CF gyms. Meaning there will be more structure. I do think that good gyms outweigh the bad, there are bad affiliates out there, but they are few and far between. This business isn't for the faint of heart, and people that think rolling up the door and waiting for clients to blindly sign up is a recipe for disaster.

Like Durden mentioned, people will do dumb things regardless. Love how people disregard coaching, when all the top athletes have multiple coaches, yet you Mr. Joe Schmo who hasn't lifted since HS has figured out a way to "do it on your own"

CF in commercial gyms will be short lived, too much liability, no instruction.

On top of that, all the old folks that don't understand why people drop weights will just get pissed off and head to their local YMCA where it's a little more quiet.,

Have you tried controlling a 225 pound clean and jerk, ****. People have been slamming bars since before CF, just raise the volume on your Beats.
Your body and mind can do things that you don't allow it too. It doesn't put more strain on the shoulder than a heavy press, push press and/or push jerk. You don't do a HSPU on your head, your head does touch the ground but your hands/arms are controlling the movement. Contracting the core and extending the hips isn't unnatural. The majority of people don't have the strength to do a strict or kipping HSPU.

Therefore the scaled workout was:

10 Push Press
10 Cleans
8 Min AMRAP

You can always scale and modify any workout to fit the profile and/or abilitites of the person you are training.
Boom, pretty much. Hard to see from that angle, but it's what I saw as well.

I appreciate you taking the time out to explain your responses. I still think there was some miscommunication and maybe I just didn't explain myself well enough initially. I've never said that I steer people away from crossfit in general. I don't recommend someone's approach to shaping their physique is to try to do "crossfit workouts" with no experience or to just go to any random crossfit box. Maybe this happens less now, but I know for a while you had crossfit boxes popping up everywhere with brand new instructors just putting people through stuff they had no business doing. If a client says to me "I'd really like to try crossfit, it looks like fun..." I have a couple of specific boxes I suggest and coaches I know personally that I can refer them to, some of whom are former coworkers.

I'm not against crossfit. I'll admit it's not a discipline I practice or try to teach. And the problem with some boxes having crappy instructors vs others happens in every aspect of fitness. I never tell someone looking to get in shape to just go to any local gym and ask for a personal trainer, they all know what they're talking about. Like anything new to someone they should proceed with a little research.

 

[bigboss]

Not every starting position looks exactly the same, but the bar should be pretty damn close to the body at the beginning of the lift. And thats for everyone.

Well no **** doc 

 

If you are bigger in the mid section and or less mobile the bar should be a little further out. I like it to be right across my mid foot.

 

[jewbacca2]

 

[panaricanretro]

Don't really see the problem. He made it all the way up so his form was good, right?

 

[picasso swerve]

He's shaved and chalked up to keep the weight against his body.

It's not a "not always" thing to argue on..

Heavy weight needs to be against your body during movements...

But...

What do I know.

I rather have the weight move in a straight, vertical plane when I DL, which means the bar starts more towards the top of the middle of my feet as opposed to right next to my shins, so its a little farther out. Its a better pull for me and its a straight up and down plane.