(Spoilers) ASOIAF Books Discussion (All Books Read Edition) (Spoilers)

[jstarks2380]

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Oberyn and that poisoned spear are dangerous. Jamie doesn't have the reach the mountain does and we all saw Oberyn did to him. Even if Jamie does beat him he dies slow and painful anyway.
I would take Oberyn.

 

[shogun]

Jamie would have to make sure to cut off the blades at the top of each of Oberyn's spears.

 

[tdogg2k]

Jdjkekdkekkekekekdlellelelkowksnsjksjshsksksmsnjejejsksksksllslslslslslslslslskskekdkdmhdhdhfhrjhfjdjrkelslwkshejkelele o elkejdhhdkdkdkeldlelleldmdkdkdmkdkdkdkdkdkdkdmnfnfkflrlrlelepelekirk dr l l dl dl
Also the only reason GRRM agreed to let D&D do the show was because they got the answer right as to who Jon's mother is. Add to that Alfie Allen referring to Jon as a luke Skywalker situation tells me Jon definitely is not Neds son.

i still don't think the answer is as simple as Lyanna. because anyone who picked up the first book would have guess that... i mean does that mean he didnt let spike lee or george lucas do it because they guessed wrong. (lol joking) but yea.

as far as obreyn vs. Jaime.
Them Martells don't play.
everyone can fight and everyone is fam!


but from the description not only is Obreyn quick but he has experience.
Jaime is good but that long bow spear with speed, and power (he parried the mountain a few times. )

 

[jstarks2380]

Gdhrjrjrjjfirkdkdldldljrkrlrkdkrkdolrlrlflkfkfkfkfjfjjfjfjfnfkkfkfkfkfkfkfkkfkfkfkkfnfjfkfkfkfjnfjffbjfjfnfkfkfkmfmfkfkfkfkfkkrjjrjekejdjjrkrkkrkrrjjffjjfjfhfjrjfjfjfjfjjfjfjfjfjfjfjfkkfkfkfkkfkfkfjjfjfkfkfkfkfkkfkfkfkfkfkkfkfkk

Most people don't get it though. If you ask anyone who read the books and hasn't been on a forum they would not guess Lyanna as his mother.
The time line also gives it away. Ned doesn't show up with Jon until he leaves the tower of joy.
Lyanna dieing in her bed of blood which is synonymous with childbirth.
Jon being born withing a month of the sack of king's landing.
It can't be Ashara because the last time he had contact with her was Harrenhall.
He wouldn't have had time to get Jon from the fisherman's daughter in the fingers.
Wylla does not make an appearance until Jon needs a wet nurse at Starfall.
Ned laid too many false trails. All of that coupled with Lyanna's promise tells me Jon is the child of Lyanna and Rhaegar.

 

[shogun]

I don't remember the books having much detail about the events. I only came to a conclusion when I read more about what happened at the tower of joy on wikipedia and all the clues were there. I have friends who have finished all the books and still couldn't give a good guess at who the mother could be.

 

[IATT]

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


how far you guys think they show with tyrion in these last 2 episodes?

 

[tdogg2k]

because there is none.
most stuff you hear about now, people put together, but what's that called.......Theories.
not fact.
(which is coming back around to the problem I have with most of them)

I've read the books twice over so far, watched the show, part of many groups, read the wikis

the tower of joy scene (not in the show btw) still doesn't lead proof to that being jon.
it says. lyanna said promise me ned.
after the huge fight that went down that only left howland and ned standing.

now Ned continued on to Kings landing. (which is when and where he found jamie )
and howland may or may not have went back to his home. (we dont know so anything about him from what we know about tower of joy or his kids is THEORY )
Now we also know after it was said and done Ned came back with baby Jon in his arms to Caitlyn.

look at the map of Westeros. Reed is from Greywater watch.
Now there are two ways to get back to Winterfell from kings landing. the difficult and far way which is north west. or the kings road way which is north east.
That would mean Ned marched all the way to grey water watch. pick up jon. go back down to cross through the twins (unless howland had boats) then up to winterfell.
which is unlikely but once again WE DON'T KNOW BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN THE BOOKS.


So other than that scene.
and the wet nurse thing from the brotherhood of no banners dude. claiming about the wet nurse which is this..

Lord Edric Dayne tells Arya Stark that he and Jon Snow are "milk brothers". He elaborates that one of the servants of his house, called Wylla, was Jon Snow's mother. When his own mother had no milk, Wylla became Edric's wet-nurse. Since Edric is about four years yonger than Jon, this must have been long after Lord Eddard brought Jon to Winterfell. According to Edric, Wylla worked for many years at Starfall. Arya, who has never heard the name and is aware that Jon doesn't know anything about his mother, first thinks that Edric might be mocking her, but when he swears on the honor of his house that he's telling the truth, she decides to remember the name, so that she can tell Jon when they meet again

those are the 2 things we were told about Jon. nothing more nothing less
any and everything else is Theory.


I have more to say but i'll save it for later

 

[parada45]

GdhrjrjrjjfirkdkdldldljrkrlrkdkrkdolrlrlflkfkfkfkfjfjjfjfjfnfkkfkfkfkfkfkfkkfkfkfkkfnfjfkfkfkfjnfjffbjfjfnfkfkfkmfmfkfkfkfkfkkrjjrjekejdjjrkrkkrkrrjjffjjfjfhfjrjfjfjfjfjjfjfjfjfjfjfjfkkfkfkfkkfkfkfjjfjfkfkfkfkfkkfkfkfkfkfkkfkfkkGdhrjrjrjjfirkdkdldldljrkrlrkdkrkdolrlrlflkfkfkfkfjfjjfjfjfnfkkfkfkfkfkfkfkkfkfkfkkfnfjfkfkfkfjnfjffbjfjfnfkfkfkmfmfkfkfkfkfkkrjjrjekejdjjrkrkkrkrrjjffjjfjfhfjrjfjfjfjfjjfjfjfjfjfjfjfkkfkfkfkkfkfkfjjfjfkfkfkfkfkkfkfkfkfkfkkfkfkk

I agree with Jstarks

R+L=J Didn’t even occur to me after I read the books

Only until I went online and found out that it’s the most popular theory out there

I think the theory is true but wouldn’t surprise me if it isn’t

 

[fantastic4our]

kjasdl;fsdalkfjsdlkafjlasdjdflkfjsdaklfjlsadjfljasdlfjsklajflsajfljasldfjlsdkjflasjdfs

My sister figured out that Lyanna was Jon's mother without reading forums. It makes the most sense out of any other theories.

 

[jstarks2380]

because there is none.
most stuff you hear about now, people put together, but what's that called.......Theories.
not fact.
(which is coming back around to the problem I have with most of them)

I've read the books twice over so far, watched the show, part of many groups, read the wikis

the tower of joy scene (not in the show btw) still doesn't lead proof to that being jon.
it says. lyanna said promise me ned.
after the huge fight that went down that only left howland and ned standing.

now Ned continued on to Kings landing. (which is when and where he found jamie )
and howland may or may not have went back to his home. (we dont know so anything about him from what we know about tower of joy or his kids is THEORY )
Now we also know after it was said and done Ned came back with baby Jon in his arms to Caitlyn.

look at the map of Westeros. Reed is from Greywater watch.
Now there are two ways to get back to Winterfell from kings landing. the difficult and far way which is north west. or the kings road way which is north east.
That would mean Ned marched all the way to grey water watch. pick up jon. go back down to cross through the twins (unless howland had boats) then up to winterfell.
which is unlikely but once again WE DON'T KNOW BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN THE BOOKS.


So other than that scene.
and the wet nurse thing from the brotherhood of no banners dude. claiming about the wet nurse which is this..
those are the 2 things we were told about Jon. nothing more nothing less
any and everything else is Theory.


I have more to say but i'll save it for later

Ned was in Kings landing first he arrived before Robert but after Tywin and his army. After arguing with Robert over the murder of the Targeryen children he ended the siege at storms end and proceeded to the tower of joy.
Ethan Glover was with him from the cells of the red keep everyone else were his northern men who came down with him after he called his banners.
Eric Dayne is 12 when he tells Arya that making him about 2-3 years younger than Jon. He has heard stories but never actually seen Jon.
Lord Borrell who was actually an adult believes that Jon is the fisherman's daughter. For that to be possible Ned would have had to travel back north on the middle of a war to get Jon and travel with him when he is less than a month old. Or bring the her with him all through the war a pregnant woman. Or send someone to retrieve Jon. This is Ned he is not risking anyone's life to do that.
Then there is Ashara. Caitlyn believes she is Jons mother but the time line doesn't add up. Most likely she was pregnant By Brandon.
Wylla does not appear until Jon needs a wet nurse.
Also Lyanna's promise haunts Ned yet he never tells anyone. Howland Reed never leaves the neck again. They are keeping a secret.
In the black cells Ned thinks about how he has been lying for 14 years and then thinks of Jon. Of all his children he wants to write a letter to his bastard son not his heir who is marching south to free him.
Bran's dream about the crypts. Ned was down there and it had something to do with Jon.
Also the 3 kingsgaurd. Duty was everything to those 3. Though I have no proof for this one. I believe Rhaegar married Lyanna and with his death Jon became king. Otherwise the kingsguard 2 old have went to protect Viserys.

There is the foreshadowing when Jon gets longclaw from Mormont. He thinks no matter how many swords they give me Ned Stark will be my father. Setting up for when he gets lightbringer.
When Joffrey and Robb are sparing Arya ask why Jon isn't down there he says bastards aren't allowed to hit princes. We all know Joffrey is a bastard.
Mormont's raven calling him king. The same Raven who told him to burn the wight. Most likely warged by bloodraven. The clues are all there kind of like the clues of Sansa being the one to kill littlefinger.

 

[hand2handking]

                                                                                                                                                                                              The clues are all there kind of like the clues of Sansa being the one to kill littlefinger.

 

[shogun]

I'm not sherlock holmes so 99% of these clues internet dudes find I just read over.

 

[parada45]

GdhrjrjrjjfirkdkdldldljrkrlrkdkrkdolrlrlflkfkfkfkfjfjjfjfjfnfkkfkfkfkfkfkfkkfkfkfkkfnfjfkfkfkfjnfjffbjfjfnfkfkfkmfmfkfkfkfkfkkrjjrjekejdjjrkrkkrkrrjjffjjfjfhfjrjfjfjfjfjjfjfjfjfjfjfjfkkfkfkfkkfkfkfjjfjfkfkfkfkfkkfkfkfkfkfkkfkfkkGdhrjrjrjjfirkdkdldldljrkrlrkdkrkdolrlrlflkfkfkfkfjfjjfjfjfnfkkfkfkfkfkfkfkkfkfkfkkfnfjfkfkfkfjnfjffbjfjfnfkfkfkmfmfkfkfkfkfkkrjjrjekejdjjrkrkkrkrrjjffjjfjfhfjrjfjfjfjfjjfjfjfjfjfjfjfkkfkfkfkkfkfkfjjfjfkfkfkfkfkkfkfkfkfkfkkfkfkk


Sansa killing Littlefinger?

Please go on

 

[jstarks2380]

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When Arya is with brotherhood they meet up with the ghost of high heart. Who is the one who told the mad kings father about the prince that was promised forcing Aerys to marry his sister.

The old gods stir and will not let me sleep. I dreamt I saw a shadow with a burning heart butchering a golden stag, aye. I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings. I dreamt of a roaring river and a woman that was a fish. Dead she drifted, with red tears on her cheeks, but when her eyes did open, oh, I woke from terror. All this I dreamt, and more.[2]

I dreamt a wolf howling in the rain, but no one heard his grief. I dreamt such a clangor I thought my head might burst, drums and horns and pipes and screams, but the saddest sound was the little bells. I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow.[3]

She predicts Caitlyn becoming lady stoneheart. Balon being killed by a faceless man most likely hired by euron. She sees the red wedding and Catlyn killing Jingle bell. She saw the poison in Sansa's hair net.

I know a lot of people think she was talking about the Lord Roberts doll that Sansa rips apart after he destroys her snow winterfell.
Also on the show Tyrion says Sansa is not capable of murder at least not yet. Then they cut to a scene of littlefinger walking up on her.

She also says Arya smells of death. Unfortunately there is a lot of foreshadowing of Arya's death.

 

[legendairy stinson]

Hhshshshhshshshshshbvkkkejjdbbbdjjjjjsbbsbsbs

Ayra is on a killing spree at the moment. Could be all the death she's been causing?

And why is Balon Greyjoy still alive?!

 

[qstorm3]

has anyone seen this shirt or know where to get it?!

 

[shogun]

Someone said that's photoshopped. Shirt might not exist.

 

[dwileykyot]

Obviously photoshopped

 

[nako xl]

 

That was a very tempting offer from Stannis

I personally would've accepted it. Anyways , hopefully the Starks would somehow end up on top, they've been the oppressed the whole time.

Jon Stark does have a ring to it, GRRM must be a Knick fan on the low.

He's very openly a Giants fan. I know people have asked but don't think he's ever answered whether he's a Knicks fan or not, but considering he named characters after Phil Sims (Wun Wun) and to represent the Cowboys (Ser Patrek) I wouldn't put it past him.

Also:

[h1]No, you can’t crush a man’s skull with your bare hands[/h1]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...cant-crush-a-mans-skull-with-your-bare-hands/

 

[legendairy stinson]

It's actually Jets

 

[nako xl]

It's actually Jets

It's both. He's a big Jets and Giants fan. He's also called the Giants the Stark family of the NFL in Sports Illustrated:

"The Giants are the Stark family of the NFL, because they're heroes. Their archenemies, the Patriots, are the Lannisters."

But Ser Patrek represents his friend who is a Dallas Cowboys fan. Wun Wun (one-one; #11; Phil Simms) is a "Giant" who kills the knight in Dallas Cowboys apparel.

SAGAL: Isn't it true that there's a character in your latest book that's there because you lost a bet about a football game?

MARTIN: Yes, in a way, yes, it is. That's true.

(LAUGHTER)

SAGAL: Well what happened?

MARTIN: Well there's this guy named Patrick St. Denis, who runs a fantasy website called Pat's Fantasy Hotlist. And Pat is a big Dallas Cowboys fan. So we would have a standing bet for a number of years about whether the Dallas Cowboys or the New York Giants would do better.

And I won the bet the first two years. But finally, in the third year the Cowboys finished ahead of the Giants. And what I had to do if he won the bet was to kill him horribly within the books.

(LAUGHTER)

MARTIN: So I invented a character called Ser Patrek of King's Mountain and described his heraldry as looking somewhat like the heraldry of the Dallas Cowboys with the silver star on a white field. And then I had him ripped apart by a giant.

source

 

[CHAOSE57]

Reading all these theories makes me want to re read the books

 

[legendairy stinson]

It's actually Jets

It's both. He's a big Jets and Giants fan. He's also called the Giants the Stark family of the NFL in Sports Illustrated:

"The Giants are the Stark family of the NFL, because they're heroes. Their archenemies, the Patriots, are the Lannisters."

But Ser Patrek represents his friend who is a Dallas Cowboys fan. Wun Wun (one-one; #11; Phil Simms) is a "Giant" who kills the knight in Dallas Cowboys apparel.




[QUOTE url="[MEDIA=npr]i=161142894;m=161152871[/MEDIA]"]
SAGAL: Isn't it true that there's a character in your latest book that's there because you lost a bet about a football game?

MARTIN: Yes, in a way, yes, it is. That's true.
(LAUGHTER)

SAGAL: Well what happened?

MARTIN: Well there's this guy named Patrick St. Denis, who runs a fantasy website called Pat's Fantasy Hotlist. And Pat is a big Dallas Cowboys fan. So we would have a standing bet for a number of years about whether the Dallas Cowboys or the New York Giants would do better.
And I won the bet the first two years. But finally, in the third year the Cowboys finished ahead of the Giants. And what I had to do if he won the bet was to kill him horribly within the books.
(LAUGHTER)

MARTIN: So I invented a character called Ser Patrek of King's Mountain and described his heraldry as looking somewhat like the heraldry of the Dallas Cowboys with the silver star on a white field. And then I had him ripped apart by a giant.

source

[/quote]

Interesting

 

[tdogg2k]

Jstark in your first post (sorry on cell and dont want to quote and erase parts)
About half of that stuff is actually in the book and the other half was theorized/put together from clues.
This is one thing I cant get over. As far as we know. Lyanna was not married. Meaning she should hvae been a maiden. Now why would a maiden (especially a stark) give up that box to someone who was already married and all ready had kids?
Now we know brandon was a loose cannon runnin around spreading his seed. (But thats another theory we'll get into later)

Jon is a stark. Theres no denying it. He looks more like ned./brandon
He wargs
There is nothing tying him to being a targ though. Got a bad burn from the fire.
Danyerys, viserys and the one with jon connington all have the silver hair if targs. Jon does not.
(Despite those kids mothers eing elias
Theres just no targ evidence in Jon. Yet weve seen evidence of full on stark .
Which we have no denying he is and I doubt Ned would have lied about so yes he is some starks kid we dont know who.
There is a running theory that it could be Arthur Dayne and thats why ned felt so bad and sent his sword back home.


we'll learn more i think when the world of ice and fire comes out this or next year.
Then there is still winds of winter


nothing really adds up. Roberts rebillion was nearly a year. Cat had Robb before that rebellion if jon was conceived months after Rob. that means (if this R+L=J is true) that They didnt do the deed until after Robert started the war.

Now if there was a war going on. when and why would Rhaegar had done that.????

That doesnt add up. especially with a wife and kids already. who btw are younger than Jon snow

nothing adds up. That would mean that Jon had to have been born BEFORE the rebellion NOT at the tower of joy as people are predicting..

that's where it gets confusing

 

[jstarks2380]

Jstark in your first post (sorry on cell and dont want to quote and erase parts)
About half of that stuff is actually in the book and the other half was theorized/put together from clues.
This is one thing I cant get over. As far as we know. Lyanna was not married. Meaning she should hvae been a maiden. Now why would a maiden (especially a stark) give up that box to someone who was already married and all ready had kids?
Now we know brandon was a loose cannon runnin around spreading his seed. (But thats another theory we'll get into later)

Jon is a stark. Theres no denying it. He looks more like ned./brandon
He wargs
There is nothing tying him to being a targ though. Got a bad burn from the fire.
Danyerys, viserys and the one with jon connington all have the silver hair if targs. Jon does not.
(Despite those kids mothers eing elias
Theres just no targ evidence in Jon. Yet weve seen evidence

Targeryens are not fire proof. We saw Danerys get burns in the pit with drogo just from his breath.
Arion bright flame dies from drinking wildfire.
Aegon V and his son prince Duncan the small died in the fire at summerhall.
Viserys is killed by boiling gold.
Dany's hatching dragons were a result of blood magic.

Rhaegar's Rhaeneys had brown hair like her mother.
Vallar Targeryen had brown hair like his dornish mother.
Daeron the drunken had brown hair.

Lyanna had the wolf blood as Ned said and it led to her early death. She was not happy being engaged to Robert. I firmly believe she was the knight of the laughing tree and Rhaegar met her when he went to find out who it was. The fact that Ned never thinks negatively of Rhaegar tells me they ran away together. Jon looks like Arya but Arya looks just like her Aunt Lyanna who can't possibly be her mother.