So does anyone NOT think Jordan is the GOAT??

No love for Wilt?

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Kobe is my guy and all but I'm assuming that all of you are joking when you say Kobe... Shaq is closer to being the greatest than Kobe...Shaq was moreunstoppable that Kobe has ever been
 
Originally Posted by MaxElite

no one was on Jordan's level in his prime in the league, period. to me greatness is measured how you compared against the peers in your era. if you say wilt then others will say what about russell? if you say magic, then other say will say bird. if you say kobe, then others will say lebron. if you say Jordan, then the discussion stops.
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so because there was noone else good in the league when he played and there is noone to compare to him he's the greatest? he started winning asBird, Magic, and the pistons were gettin old. Plus he needed a team around him that was great, many people fail to acknowledge that PETE MYERS took his placethe first time he retired and that team came one bullshyt foul away from the eastern conference finals without jordan, so obviously it wasnt ALL jordan beinggreat. The first championship a guy named bobby hanson was the 12th man off the bench, and its documented that phil used everyone on his bench to win, it wasntALL jordan. Last time Cleveland was in the eastern conference finals before last year it was a team led by Craig Ehlo and larry nance, that played the Bulls inthe eastern conference finals, during the Bulls first championship, WOW what stellar competition he had to go through to win.... The NBA is 1000 times morecompetitive today then back then, now good teams have at least 2 or 3 all stars on a squad, just to compete...
 
daiernchef
MaxElite
no one was on Jordan's level in his prime in the league, period. to me greatness is measured how you compared against the peers in your era. if you say wilt then others will say what about russell? if you say magic, then other say will say bird. if you say kobe, then others will say lebron. if you say Jordan, then the discussion stops.
so because there was noone else good in the league when he played and there is noone to compare to him he's the greatest? he started winning as Bird, Magic, and the pistons were gettin old. Plus he needed a team around him that was great, many people fail to acknowledge that PETE MYERS took his place the first time he retired and that team came one bullshyt foul away from the eastern conference finals without jordan, so obviously it wasnt ALL jordan being great. The first championship a guy named bobby hanson was the 12th man off the bench, and its documented that phil used everyone on his bench to win, it wasnt ALL jordan. Last time Cleveland was in the eastern conference finals before last year it was a team led by Craig Ehlo and larry nance, that played the Bulls in the eastern conference finals, during the Bulls first championship, WOW what stellar competition he had to go through to win.... The NBA is 1000 times more competitive today then back then, now good teams have at least 2 or 3 all stars on a squad, just to compete...
the NBA today has more gifted athletes.......that's it.....the intensity was higher back then as well as the competitiveness...especiallydefensively......you got some guys today just cashing a check....today the NBA is entertainment (or at least heading in that direction), back then it was areal man's game.
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isn't the conversation only between Jordan and Wilt?...how are these other names getting in here?...
 
so because there was noone else good in the league when he played and there is noone to compare to him he's the greatest? he started winning as Bird, Magic, and the pistons were gettin old. Plus he needed a team around him that was great, many people fail to acknowledge that PETE MYERS took his place the first time he retired and that team came one bullshyt foul away from the eastern conference finals without jordan, so obviously it wasnt ALL jordan being great. The first championship a guy named bobby hanson was the 12th man off the bench, and its documented that phil used everyone on his bench to win, it wasnt ALL jordan. Last time Cleveland was in the eastern conference finals before last year it was a team led by Craig Ehlo and larry nance, that played the Bulls in the eastern conference finals, during the Bulls first championship, WOW what stellar competition he had to go through to win.... The NBA is 1000 times more competitive today then back then, now good teams have at least 2 or 3 all stars on a squad, just to compete...
um of course Jordan needed a good team win to championships i never denied that. Jordan MADE the Paxons and the Grants (who were otherwisemarginal players) important pieces. so it worked both ways. i also never said there was no one else good in the league. just look at all the HOFers duringJordan's era....Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Malone, Barkley etc...and instead you bring up Ehlo. now, you say the NBA is 1000 times more competitive today?how so? if anything its less, there are so many more washed up garbage players in the NBA. its so watered down its not even funny. its about you how playamongst your peers during era, and i dont think theres much of an argument when it comes to Jordan.
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how are these other names getting in here?...



because it's a completely subjective topic.

shaq had the potential had to be up there, but his work ethic was not the best.
i wish he could have stayed in shape, imagine what could have been.
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also, a lot of people from the LA area will say magic is the GOAT.
me personally, i am too young to have watched jordan and magic in their primes, but from watching old games, i can hoenstly say that i enjoyed magic's gamemoreso than jordans.
thats just me though.
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I would Put Kareem, Wilt, and Magic ahead of MJ....of course, this is my opinion

I don't even like MJ....I just like his shoes...
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Originally Posted by BlowDaWhistle

Kobe is my guy and all but I'm assuming that all of you are joking when you say Kobe... Shaq is closer to being the greatest than Kobe...Shaq was more unstoppable that Kobe has ever been
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Yea that's true but I tend to look at "greatness" like this. Media. Period. Jordan is seriously not that easily the GOAT. IMO it's Magicfollowed by Bird and then Jordan. Jordan is regarded as the GOAT in most cases because of the media attention that he got. The media, in a way, made him thegreatest. And the same would hold true for Kobe had he not did what he did a couple years back. Bron would NOT have the shoe deal nor the sprite deal he hasnow if Kobe hadn't messed up. Actually I think some people "make" Bron better than he really is based on the media. If you sit and watch hisgames....nothing really makes him SO much better than any of the top 5 players in the league, but that's another discussion for another day. Anyways what Iam saying is the people that compare Kobe to Mike aren't as far off base as we try to make them seem. Especially when one of his former teammates says thatKobe is the best offensive player he has EVER seen.
 
Originally Posted by MaxElite

so because there was noone else good in the league when he played and there is noone to compare to him he's the greatest? he started winning as Bird, Magic, and the pistons were gettin old. Plus he needed a team around him that was great, many people fail to acknowledge that PETE MYERS took his place the first time he retired and that team came one bullshyt foul away from the eastern conference finals without jordan, so obviously it wasnt ALL jordan being great. The first championship a guy named bobby hanson was the 12th man off the bench, and its documented that phil used everyone on his bench to win, it wasnt ALL jordan. Last time Cleveland was in the eastern conference finals before last year it was a team led by Craig Ehlo and larry nance, that played the Bulls in the eastern conference finals, during the Bulls first championship, WOW what stellar competition he had to go through to win.... The NBA is 1000 times more competitive today then back then, now good teams have at least 2 or 3 all stars on a squad, just to compete...
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um of course Jordan needed a good team win to championships i never denied that. Jordan MADE the Paxons and the Grants (who were otherwise marginal players) important pieces. so it worked both ways. i also never said there was no one else good in the league. just look at all the HOFers during Jordan's era....Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Malone, Barkley etc...and instead you bring up Ehlo. now, you say the NBA is 1000 times more competitive today? how so? if anything its less, there are so many more washed up garbage players in the NBA. its so watered down its not even funny. its about you how play amongst your peers during era, and i dont think theres much of an argument when it comes to Jordan.
Robinson did nothing without duncan, Ewing, Malone and Barkley have exactly how many championships? They were great but How great can they really bewithout winning at least one championship? and dont give me that its because of Jordan they didnt win, Malone played damn near 20 years and Jordan won 6 rings,so 14 seasons he played and didnt win Nothing, same for Ewing and Barkley they didnt only play 6 seasons. Lets see Cleveland sucked, who did Milwaukee haveback then Glen "Big DOg" Robinson, Im not gonna go through every team in the eastern conference but you can say New york was good even though nooneon them teams won anything, and Miami was decent, and Orlando but Shaq was just gettin started and we see after Orlando beat the comback Jordan in thePlayoffs, they went out and got a 3 Headed Monster and Dennis Rodman for Shaq,
- Plus Jordan had Pippen 50 greatest all time
- Rodman possible the greatest rebounder ever, not to mention shut down defense.
- 3 of the best 3 point shooters EVER - Craig Hodges, Steve Kerr, John Paxson.
- 3 Headed Monster
- Phil Jackson 9 Rings
 
no one was on Jordan's level in his prime in the league, period. to me greatness is measured how you compared against the peers in your era. if you say wilt then others will say what about russell? if you say magic, then other say will say bird. if you say kobe, then others will say lebron. if you say Jordan, then the discussion stops.

Agreed.
MJ = GOAT.
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Originally Posted by BullsRepeat3Peat

daiernchef
MaxElite
no one was on Jordan's level in his prime in the league, period. to me greatness is measured how you compared against the peers in your era. if you say wilt then others will say what about russell? if you say magic, then other say will say bird. if you say kobe, then others will say lebron. if you say Jordan, then the discussion stops.
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so because there was noone else good in the league when he played and there is noone to compare to him he's the greatest? he started winning as Bird, Magic, and the pistons were gettin old. Plus he needed a team around him that was great, many people fail to acknowledge that PETE MYERS took his place the first time he retired and that team came one bullshyt foul away from the eastern conference finals without jordan, so obviously it wasnt ALL jordan being great. The first championship a guy named bobby hanson was the 12th man off the bench, and its documented that phil used everyone on his bench to win, it wasnt ALL jordan. Last time Cleveland was in the eastern conference finals before last year it was a team led by Craig Ehlo and larry nance, that played the Bulls in the eastern conference finals, during the Bulls first championship, WOW what stellar competition he had to go through to win.... The NBA is 1000 times more competitive today then back then, now good teams have at least 2 or 3 all stars on a squad, just to compete...
the NBA today has more gifted athletes.......that's it.....the intensity was higher back then as well as the competitiveness...especially defensively......you got some guys today just cashing a check....today the NBA is entertainment (or at least heading in that direction), back then it was a real man's game.

How can you even say this? Unless your at least 30 yrs old or older...if not I don't think anyone can say the intensity was better or thecompetitiveness was higher or any of that ..your only going off of hardwood classics and games like that...and almost all of those are playoff games or some ofthe great games in nba history..so of course they're going to seem so much more passionate and intense
 
I often argue for Wilt. Kareem could have great arguments as well, same with Oscar, Russell or even Magic
 
I understand and see that there were many players that can be seen as the GOAT. But in my opinion, the things he did put him that one step above others. Hisdrive and determination is what made him the greatest player of all time. I really cant argue that in my opinion.
 
Big O
Wilt
Russell

Kareem and Magic are questionable.

To throw a name out there, Isiah Thomas. He's not quite on Jordans level, but he is modern-day Allen Iverson, AI is Isiah Thomas-lite.
 
Originally Posted by Mw2889

Well if I were to pick one player to start my franchise, it would be Shaq. His accomplishments aren't the greatest of all time, but he is the most dominate force in the history of basketball.
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i disagree. if given the choice i would pick tim duncan over shaq
 
Originally Posted by Mw2889

Well if I were to pick one player to start my franchise, it would be Shaq. His accomplishments aren't the greatest of all time, but he is the most dominate force in the history of basketball.
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With that said, I feel Shaq's career could have been a lot better if he had put more effort into it like stay in shape
 
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