Selling Out

Clarence Thomas is an Uncle Tom and scum.
First, he doesn't recognize that the Constitution had it's flaws. He is also for separate but equal. He sexually harassed Anita Hill. He is against Affirmative Action, which he benefited from.
1) Of course the constitution has flaws, as does anything man made, but I think it serves as good a framework for ruling as any other document. 2) Alot of people ,Malcolm X included favored separate but equal. 3) I think the reasons he opposes affirmative action have merrit.
 
For him to be comsidered a sell-out, you'd have to show me evidence that his views dramatically changed for reasons ranging from political aspirations to marriage to plain old money.

From what I've read, he's been consistently out of step with mainstream black consciousness for his entire adult life. In fact, if he changed his views now and received adoration from the black community, he would then be considered a sell-out by some circles.
 
For him to be comsidered a sell-out, you'd have to show me evidence that his views dramatically changed for reasons ranging from political aspirations to marriage to plain old money.

From what I've read, he's been consistently out of step with mainstream black consciousness for his entire adult life. In fact, if he changed his views now and received adoration from the black community, he would then be considered a sell-out by some circles.
good point
 
Nooo way. If anything, he was a person who didn't sell out. I would have never thought someone was going to try to bring weed mainstream like that, and be successful at it.

You gotta be no older than 16...
 
I had some not so nice words about Tyler Perry when I was commenting on a YouTube video. Mad people went in on me.
 
I don't understand why you guys think just because a man is black he has to act and think a certain way. That attitude doesn't help anybody in this country move forward to a better future.
 
I'm all for calling a spade a spade. But from what most of you are saying, by definition, I'm finding it difficult to say TP has sold out. He didn't really change up his material after he became successful. You guys are essentially pointing at Madea as the primary source of his selling out, but if you know the background of his work, you'd know that Madea showed up in Perry's early works (on stage performances of I can do bad by myself, etc). I remember hearing about Madea when I was in the eight grade. I'm now 24, The point I'm trying to make is that Madea can't be considered the turning point for the guy, because he's been playing her before the fame. He's been incorporating gospel and Christianity in his works before the fame.

Do I think he has the ability to produce films that depict blacks in a different light? Of course. His name/brand guarantees box office sales. He is aware of this. He could very well make a movie that would enlighten the black community. I often think of film makers like Spike Lee having the same notoriety as Tyler Perry. That would be incredible.

Another fault I have with his work is the fact that they lead you to believe that a lot of the problems that persist in the African American community can be solved by prayer and song. But one has to keep the criticism in perspective because he makes movies rooted in black Christian faith... black Christians are his fan base. Someone who doesn't readily identify with the message Perry is trying to convey will undoubtedly find fault with the film. Essentially, Perry's going to appease to his fan base, who are likely to continue to support his work, and thereby allowing him to continue in his cooking endeavors.

I'd quicker point a shameful finger at the people on those shows like Love and Hip Hop, or those black producers who are involved with them. The ratings are astronomical every week, but at what cost? They do so much damage to the back community that I don't even know where to being with them.
 
For the people in here that are asking "who" or "what" are sell out is are you black?? If your not that's fine, that would just help answer alot of the questions and confusion you might have.
 
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I'd quicker point a shameful finger at the people on those shows like Love and Hip Hop, or those black producers who are involved with them. The ratings are astronomical every week, but at what cost? They do so much damage to the back community that I don't even know where to being with them.

This. Y'all mad at TP , but i don't see anyone upset at this ******** that gets aired? All tuned in waiting for the next epsiode .
 
This. Y'all mad at TP , but i don't see anyone upset at this ******** that gets aired? All tuned in waiting for the next epsiode .

You must not be looking hard enough.

Just using social networking for an example...as many people praise that show...I see equal amounts condemning all that VH1 ****.

Hell there was an outrage when VIBE put them basketball and hip hop wives on their cover and called them "The New Role Models".
 
How is Clarence Thomas a sell-out? By all accounts, he's been a staunch Constitutionalist and has been out of step with mainstream black consciousness since his college days. I recently listened to a Leonard Lopate podcast about a special program for black men at the College of Holy Cross which Thomas participated in and there were anecdotes about Thomas' divisive positions. Now you might consider him ridiculously wrong about many issues, as do I, but I can't consider him a sell-out.

Here's a lengthy profile of Thomas in The New Yorker last year: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/29/110829fa_fact_toobin?currentPage=all

Yep.

Can't sell out if you never bought in.
 
This. Y'all mad at TP , but i don't see anyone upset at this ******** that gets aired? All tuned in waiting for the next epsiode .

You must not be looking hard enough.

Just using social networking for an example...as many people praise that show...I see equal amounts condemning all that VH1 ****.

Hell there was an outrage when VIBE put them basketball and hip hop wives on their cover and called them "The New Role Models".


I admit it, no social networking for me, and I don't see TP as a sell out, I see the people supporting those love/hip hop how shows, basketball wives and all that other ******** as sellouts, your helping bring your own people down by support this ****.
 
I admit it, no social networking for me, and I don't see TP as a sell out, I see the people supporting those love/hip hop how shows, basketball wives and all that other ******** as sellouts, your helping bring your own people down by support this ****.

They work one in the same IMO.

Those TP movies portray some of the same stereotypes of Black people you see on those VH1 shows. Only difference is that TP masks his films w/ that thinly veiled "I'm a christian...and I hire black actors" ********.

My ex dragged me to see Why Did I Get Married Too and to me I might as well had been watching Love and Hip Hop Atlanta minus the ******** and all the fights.


TP might as well go ahead and come out the closet too.
 
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Lets keep it 100 99% of you dudes calling TP a sellout wont go see a productive film from him.

TP is just doing the best he can with a flawed system.

How many black men in hollywood do you know with their own studios?

Oh.
 
TP is just doing the best he can with a flawed system.

How many black men in hollywood do you know with their own studios?

Oh.

You act like that gives him a pass to put out that **** **** he puts out.

I hope Spike Lee keeps killing that ***** in the media.

Jamilah Lemieux put it best...

Dear Mr. Perry,

I appreciate your commitment to giving black folks jobs in front of and behind the camera. Your films are known for their humor, and they also have positive messages about self-worth, love and respect. For all of that, I thank you.


However, my feelings about your work are conflicted. The images of black people we see in your movies and two TV shows, Meet The Browns and House Of Payne, are not always fair. Now, you are the only person who seems to be able to get black shows on TV. But both your shows are marked by old stereotypes of buffoonish, emasculated black men and crass, sassy black women. I'd like to support your work, I really would — because I'd like to see people who look like me on TV. But I can't let advertisers and networks think that these stereotypes are acceptable.

Your most famous character, Medea, is a trash-talking, pistol-waving grandmother played by none other than you. Through her, the country has laughed at one of the most important members of the black community: Mother Dear, the beloved matriarch. I just can't quite get with seeing Mother Dear played by a 6-foot-3 man with prosthetic breasts flopping in the wind. Our mothers and grandmothers deserve much more than that. Heck, our fathers and grandfathers deserve more.

Mr. Perry, you have told the Hollywood "old guard" to kiss your backside, and I appreciate that, brother. But many black folks have expressed some of the very same attitudes about your work that white critics have.

Now, white filmmakers get chance after chance in Hollywood to try new things, no matter how many times they fail. We, however, have been fed the same images of ourselves over and over and over because they sell. But these images sell because there is nothing else.

Mr. Perry, you are in a position now where, if you were willing, you could completely revolutionize the world of black film. You could singlehandedly develop the next crop of Tyler Perrys, Spike Lees and Julie Dashes if you want to.

You have built an empire on a foundation of love and Christianity, Mr. Perry, but that is also mired with the worst black pathologies and stereotypes. I beg of you, stop dismissing the critics as haters and realize that black people need new stories and new storytellers.

We don't need Medea anymore. I know you have more, because we are more and you are more. It's obvious that your fans will be loyal to you and support you no matter what. So do right by your people. I think you love us enough to do just that.
 
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For those of you who think being a Black Republican = sell out, this was left on Mia Love's Wikipedia page last night after her speech at the RNC.
 
 
You must not be looking hard enough.
Just using social networking for an example...as many people praise that show...I see equal amounts condemning all that VH1 ****.
Hell there was an outrage when VIBE put them basketball and hip hop wives on their cover and called them "The New Role Models".
:eek

true story? :{

i see some of my homeboys on facebook saying "stevie j is that dude, stevie j for president" and some of my homegirls be all "i'm ready for hip hop atlanta tonight"...

its like an event or something...

i havent had cable for a few months, so i have never really got a chance to scope it out... but if VIBE called them role models, we're doomed. the powers that be know what effect that has...
 
:eek
true story? :{
i see some of my homeboys on facebook saying "stevie j is that dude, stevie j for president" and some of my homegirls be all "i'm ready for hip hop atlanta tonight"...
its like an event or something...
i havent had cable for a few months, so i have never really got a chance to scope it out... but if VIBE called them role models, we're doomed. the powers that be know what effect that has...

700
 
So then why aren't rappers considered sellouts considering many of them rap about violence and drug selling to make a dollar? But no, we want to point at tyler perry.
What's wrong with pointing fingers at Tyler Perry? Exploiting your own people is selling out. Most musicians don't control their image. The white owned record label molds them to their liking and then pushes that onto the public.

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Are there musicians that are sellouts? Of course. Nicki Minaj, Jay-Z and Kanye West are just some of the rappers I can name off the top of the dome.

"I don't believe in quotas. America was founded on a philosophy of individual rights, not group rights." Clarence Thomas

:{
I don't believe in quotas either and he's right, but quotas are a necessary evil due to the sins committed by previous generations. If it wasn't for Affirmative Action and laws like the Americans w/ Disabilities Act groups like women, blacks, latinos, Native Americans, handicaps and veterans just to name a few would be on the outside looking in.

Also, being a Black Republican does not mean you are a sell out. That's a terrible way to think.


The white man gives the black man the image they want them to portray on tv and that's not selling out? I mean when i see gun violence all over the news in the black community, i dont go "man look what Tyler Perry is doing to the black race"
 
The white man gives the black man the image they want them to portray on tv and that's not selling out? I mean when i see gun violence all over the news in the black community, i dont go "man look what Tyler Perry is doing to the black race"

You act like it has to be a one or the other thing.

I can't criticize rappers AND Tyler Perry?
 
The white man gives the black man the image they want them to portray on tv and that's not selling out? I mean when i see gun violence all over the news in the black community, i dont go "man look what Tyler Perry is doing to the black race"

You act like it has to be a one or the other thing.

I can't criticize rappers AND Tyler Perry?

it just seems the first name everyone comes up with is Tyler Perry in these discussions. I'm like there's worse out there than TP
 
How is Clarence Thomas a sell-out? By all accounts, he's been a staunch Constitutionalist and has been out of step with mainstream black consciousness since his college days. I recently listened to a Leonard Lopate podcast about a special program for black men at the College of Holy Cross which Thomas participated in and there were anecdotes about Thomas' divisive positions. Now you might consider him ridiculously wrong about many issues, as do I, but I can't consider him a sell-out.

Here's a lengthy profile of Thomas in The New Yorker last year: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/29/110829fa_fact_toobin?currentPage=all



“so-called ‘benign’ discrimination teaches many that because of chronic and apparently immutable handicaps, minorities cannot compete with them without their patronizing indulgence. Inevitably, such programs engender attitudes of superiority or, alternatively, provoke resentment among those who believe that they have been wronged by the government’s use of race.”



Not a sell out? 

If you read and try to understand what you've quoted, you would see that Clarence Thomas' reasoning behind his disapproval in affirmative action is sound in logic. During the time period before the appearance of MLK Jr. the majority of black leaders believed in separate but equal, the issue at hand was that there was no equality. Through separation Blacks were able to build a self sustaining society of their own, which was one of the reasons why they were targeted and attacked by the poor whites wearing their white sheets.

The aftermath of MLK Jr's dream was the destruction of black owned small businesses (your corner shops, small grocery stores, repair shops, clothing stores etc.) due to competition for the black market share. That doesn't include the once flourishing black owned businesses and towns that were attempting to rebuild amidst the destruction caused by racial violence. These towns could no longer do so because they were undercut by the pricing of large white owned businesses, no different than the price wars during the "robber baron" railroad price wars

Clarence Thomas' stance was in line with his time and the section of the Civil Rights Movement that he represented


For those of you who think being a Black Republican = sell out, this was left on Mia Love's Wikipedia page last night after her speech at the RNC.

 

Dating back the civil war era and post slavery era, republicans was the only party of blacks; more specifically southern blacks. The republican party pre- Ronald Reagan was the black party, until Reagan changed the party's platform to what it is today. While Republicans were always pro-business which is why they aligned themselves with southern blacks ( before they were "run out of town" by southern democrats), for generations they were the black party. For generations blacks voted republican, so it should not come as a shock that they have such a strong black base. Just like there are people that would stay with the same crappy job, waiting to outlast their crappy boss, the same thing goes with other walks of life.


So then why aren't rappers considered sellouts considering many of them rap about violence and drug selling to make a dollar? But no, we want to point at tyler perry.
What's wrong with pointing fingers at Tyler Perry? Exploiting your own people is selling out. Most musicians don't control their image. The white owned record label molds them to their liking and then pushes that onto the public.

[if IE]><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="640" height="390" /><![endif]


Are there musicians that are sellouts? Of course. Nicki Minaj, Jay-Z and Kanye West are just some of the rappers I can name off the top of the dome.

"I don't believe in quotas. America was founded on a philosophy of individual rights, not group rights." Clarence Thomas

:{
I don't believe in quotas either and he's right, but quotas are a necessary evil due to the sins committed by previous generations. If it wasn't for Affirmative Action and laws like the Americans w/ Disabilities Act groups like women, blacks, latinos, Native Americans, handicaps and veterans just to name a few would be on the outside looking in.

Also, being a Black Republican does not mean you are a sell out. That's a terrible way to think.



You know what musicians do have control over their image and their music, if you stick by the definition of what an actual musician is. Most rappers aren't musicians they're entertainers, just like clowns entertain at birthday parties. That's not to say all rappers are clowns, but all rappers are entertainers not musicians.

Also I don't believe in calling entertainers sell outs, since their job is to entertain to the largest crowd possible. But, is Nicki Minaj a clown, I would say yes, except you have to understand her background as to why she would turn herself into a clown in order to bring her family out of poverty.

I hate to sound a bit condescending but some of yall need to educate yourself if your school system is failing you. Take a black history course if your school's history course isn't teaching you everything. I was lucky enough to have great history teachers in HS and college but alot of the info I know is from self study. Instead of making ignorant statements without context, read to find out the context and some background information. I wish I could provide you guys web links but alot of this information I learned years ago when I was a teenager but one book to get you started is Stolen Legacy it's available online if you choose to google it
 
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