Report: Chris Paul Requests Trade To New York Knicks

[grittyman20]

Originally Posted by MrONegative

Don't change the subject now. You were saying if CP3 was traded to a team he didn't say he'd give an extension with, would he change his mind.

Him to the Magic with less talent than they already had and no cap space...I doubt it.

 at me changing the subject when I've been making the same point all along...Orlando is just an example of a team who would be desperate enough to take a risk for trading for Paul without him first guaranteeing he'd sign an extension with them. Not to mention the fact that it's been reported that CP3 has said he'd love to play w/ Dwight Howard as well. So I'm sure if he were to get the chance, it's not a stretch to say that he would probably agree to another contract with the Magic. The point that you mentioned about the Magic having less talent when they're trading scrubs for a top 3 point guard isn't really a point bro, it's a sign that you need help. 

 

[mronegative]

They're over the cap. Even if they amnesty Gil, and lose Jameer and Bass for CP3, they'll be over this year and next and close to it the year after with Gil off the books. Unless someone is helping them, they're building around CP3, Turk and D12?

And you mighta missed it, but this was all started with dude saying sure the Magic would rent CP3 for a year.

edit: him joining a team that's thin on talent and just going to lose more of it, but still be stuck with the Turk's contract, making him a part of their core regardless.

 

[Deleted member 38182]

Originally Posted by DaComeUP

Originally Posted by rck2sactown

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

CP3, you're a Lakers fan. It's easy for you to accept the way things are. How about the Minnesota fans? Milwaukee, New Orleans, Sacramento, etc?...Those teams can't just get/lure a big time Superstar like the teams that win rings can. Not trying to make you look selfish, but it's no fun for other teams fans.

This is true. Fans of big market/successful teams just don't see things in our perspective

You're a Kings fan. Can we not act like the Kings didn't choke away their chance to make it to the Finals?

Can we not ignore the fact that Minnesota had KG his whole career and failed to surround him with the necessary pieces to win. They made so many inept decisions that prevented them from succeeding.

Let's not ignore these things while y'all cry woe is me.

Nobody is ignoring this bro. it just doesn't really add to the argument IMO. Or should I start my post with "The Kings choked away their chance to make it to the finals' everytime I talk about the Kings??

In fact the more I think about it, I'm not too sure what point you are trying to make.

 

[dacomeup]

Originally Posted by rck2sactown

Originally Posted by DaComeUP

Originally Posted by rck2sactown

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

CP3, you're a Lakers fan. It's easy for you to accept the way things are. How about the Minnesota fans? Milwaukee, New Orleans, Sacramento, etc?...Those teams can't just get/lure a big time Superstar like the teams that win rings can. Not trying to make you look selfish, but it's no fun for other teams fans.

This is true. Fans of big market/successful teams just don't see things in our perspective

You're a Kings fan. Can we not act like the Kings didn't choke away their chance to make it to the Finals?



Can we not ignore the fact that Minnesota had KG his whole career and failed to surround him with the necessary pieces to win. They made so many inept decisions that prevented them from succeeding.



Let's not ignore these things while y'all cry woe is me.

Nobody is ignoring this bro. it just doesn't really add to the argument IMO. Or should I start my post with "The Kings choked away their chance to make it to the finals' everytime I talk about the Kings??

In fact the more I think about it, I'm not too sure what point you are trying to make.

The point is that small market teams have been in the position to succeed but they squander the opportunities away.

 

[651akathepaul]

^ We understand. It's not the main point though, really. I'm not claiming any woe is me. Not personally. The point about the fans is that when bad organizations have so any bad years, the fanbase just doesn't care. If they had better talent to compete year in and year out, then every fanbase in the country would have more interest, generating more interest in the NBA on an overall level.

All small market teams have the same opportunity to craft their franchise into a winner, but the margin of error is extremely different than the main cogs in the NBA. If a team doesn't strike it big in the draft (seems very hard to do for these teams) then they have to wait until after another losing season to take another stab at it, or hope to sign a FA. Signing a big name FA is unlikely. Who wants to go to Milwaukee?..For example.

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by DaComeUP

Originally Posted by rck2sactown

Originally Posted by DaComeUP



You're a Kings fan. Can we not act like the Kings didn't choke away their chance to make it to the Finals?



Can we not ignore the fact that Minnesota had KG his whole career and failed to surround him with the necessary pieces to win. They made so many inept decisions that prevented them from succeeding.



Let's not ignore these things while y'all cry woe is me.

Nobody is ignoring this bro. it just doesn't really add to the argument IMO. Or should I start my post with "The Kings choked away their chance to make it to the finals' everytime I talk about the Kings??

In fact the more I think about it, I'm not too sure what point you are trying to make.

The point is that small market teams have been in the position to succeed but they squander the opportunities away.

Truth. And I might add that alot of them are owned by individuals who dont have a iota, about basketball. They just have a team as a means of liquidating assests. Like a hobby if you will. If you dont have a working knowledge of the product your putting out then your destine to fail no matter what avenue of business your in. Ill put it like this if you took the top owners execs, staffing etc.. from the large market more successful teams and switched places with the lower market owners/execs, staffing etc. and the same results would occur.

Id bet my bottom dollar the likes of a jerry buss could create a successful team out of the clippers long term then a dan gilbert could with the lakers long term. Especially in the post-kobe era. yea location market etc plays a part in it to, but just like any other business the end results is ownership/knowledge and product knowledge and decision making skills.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

CP3, you're a Lakers fan. It's easy for you to accept the way things are. How about the Minnesota fans? Milwaukee, New Orleans, Sacramento, etc?...Those teams can't just get/lure a big time Superstar like the teams that win rings can. Not trying to make you look selfish, but it's no fun for other teams fans.

Besides, it's not even really about accepting the way things are. It's about making it even better than it is. If superstars want to put together these "super" teams, so be it. But might as well contract 4-6 teams so that the overall product is better.

The first round of the playoffs is pretty much a bust. No one cares about those 7th, 8th seeded teams. They usually back in, or don't have any chance at all of going far.

This is the way I see it. I just know know know it can be so much better than it is.

Ok, first, who the hell is CP3 on here? 

  CP17 bro, CP17, not 3.  I wish Chris Paul would change his friggin name, every thread now has CP stuff in it, and I keep gettin confused, including this post.  I was like, CP3 is a Lakers fan? 

  Then I was like, wait, he means me don't he?  @#$% 

However this comes out, I don't want it to sound totally directed at you, so just take it as plain words with no mustard on them.  Easy to accept as a Laker fan, what?  We were dead, remember?  2005, everyone said we were dead.  People were piling dirt on our heads, we just traded Shaq for Lamar Odom, we were done, dead, buried, never the same, see ya, won't miss ya, etc etc etc.  We were crap.  As a franchise, we rebuilt and got going.  Kobe is a start, is Kobe anymore a start than KG in Minny? 

  Same thing, no?  Cornerstone star, build around him, etc.  That's what we did.  We drafted well, got Bynum, got Farmar, Odom played well enough (although not as we all think he should play, but good enough) Kobe was Kobe, brought back Fish, made a GREAT trade to get Ariza, Sasha had a moment or two for a couple years, we were young, developing, and improving.  Then we made a nice trade that worked out for us, and it pushed us over the edge eventually. 

In 2006, the Clippers were better than us.  Read that again.  And then what?  They went into the tank and died for like the 400th time.  Now?  Back to being a nice young squad again, thru the draft, 3 years from now, back in the tank they will go.  Same city, waaaaaaaaaaaaay different results.  It has NOTHING to do with market. 

Minnesota had KG, they had time, they had chances, they COULD have made better/deeper runs, if they made better moves. Who told them to trade Ray Allen for Marbury?  The Market?  How can you complain about the market, when your GM makes a horrible choice like that?  That's on the league, or the size of your city? 

 

Minny has KG, San Antonio has Duncan.  One has a crap GM, one has a great GM.  Both live in nothing markets.  And you want me to feel sorry for Minnesota?   What the hell for? 

Sacramento spent more money on payroll in the 2000-01-02 seasons than LA did, and we won 3 years straight over them.  I should feel sorry for them?  Why is that? 


You guys are using market size as cop outs for bad moves, bad trades, bad luck, and whatever else under the sun.  And while doing that, you ignore the other examples all around you. 

Every single thing I said in this post is true.  Everyone did say LA was dead after Shaq, Clips were better in 06, Ray Allen was moved for Marbury, Spurs and Minny did have star PF's and one won and the other did not.  Sac did spend more than LA back in those days, with LA winning. I didn't make this crap up, it's all true.  And the reason behind it all, is market size?  Naw, I'm not buyin that.  YOU make your own luck/fortune.  YOU make good deals, YOU make good draft picks, and YOU WILL see results.  OKC, Memphis, San An, etc.  Everyone @#$%^&* about the Gasol trade, and yet that franchise has never been better after that deal.  Most succes they ever had, AFTER they made that move.  Was it easy?  Or was it a ton of hard work, smart money usage, development, good deals/signings, and trades, with luck involved as well, see the OJ deal that got reversed.  

  

Those teams can't just get/lure a big time Superstar like the teams that win rings can.
Yes you can.  You draft them.  It's then on you to surround them with players that fit and build with them.  If Cleveland makes better choices, and they finish with a title, maybe Bron is still there.  Maybe if Sac doesn't murder backboards with bricks in 4th quarters, they win a ring, and people want to go there still.  Maybe if Tim Duncan went to the Celtics instead of the Spurs, the Celtics would have been relevant a decade sooner, but instead the small market got the star player.  Please, stop using market size as a crutch for failure.  Explain how the Knicks have dominated the NBA over the years with their market, oh, wait, that hasn't happened.  Clippers?  Oh, we'll just ignore those arguments, so we can make our case for small markets.  Naw, I don't rock like that.  It's all just excuses. 

Chicago ain't good cuz their market, they got lucky and came up to draft D Rose thru a lucky lottery bounce.  Portland don't suck cuz their market, they suck cuz they got the same bounce, and took a brittle old man instead of a super duper star in the making. See what I just did there?  One #1 has value, the other does not, it ain't the city, it's the roll of the dice.  Please, think about that.  

 

[651akathepaul]

@ myself for CP3.

Anyway, points taken. The NBA can still be better than what it is and that's all that matters to me. Small market teams not winning for years is only a portion of this. The way the NBA is, it can only be marginally better. League is diluted.

 

[651akathepaul]

I know it wasn' directed at me squarely, but I'm completely aware of Minnesota's ineptitude over the years and that of similar teams. It's just that the trend these superstars as setting is putting the NBA in a place where small market teams will never have a chance until they do get lucky in the draft and put together a supporting case, which could still take years to be able to compete with the 5 or 6 teams that have "big 3's."

I'm sayin'...NBA needs to first contract Stern then start contracting teams.

 

[CP1708]

Oh, and I do agree that we should contract 4 teams.  100% agree.  And I think the improvement of that would be initial, but could work, take 4 small markets that suck, and dispersal draft them, in some order, record or whatever, so Paul would be the first pick to say........Indiana.  Now they have Paul, Granger, Hibbert, nice good start.  If they can convince someone to join that trio, they have a chance to at least contend.  Maybe then Paul doesn't mind staying.  His situation now, he works for a league run team, that won't get him a single shred of help to win titles, which is all he cares about.  It ain't all money, as he would be proving leaving for less money.  Bron took less money too, he wants a chance to win, he took the easier route.  Paul would find it easier to win with 2 very good players, than 10 mediocre players, and one really good player.  (West) 

Kill NO, the Bucks, Charlotte (again) annnnnnnd someone else, I dunno, the Kings if you want.  So #2 pick goes to Detroit, and they take Cousins.  Bogut goes #3 or 4, etc on down the line.  Minnesota could take Tyreke Evans.  Eventually, the jobs will thin out (which is why the players won't ever go for this) and the 12th man on each team won't be quite as crappy as before, but still crappy of course. 
The money is easier to use with 4 less teams, so more money for each player, even in small cities.  (Although, with 4 less teams, means less money, unless great seasons are pumped out, and interest is at an all time high, even without the 4 citites)  Maybe even move another team or two if you want, move a struggler back to Seattle or something. 

I'm just doin this off the top, I haven't actually sat and thought of 4 teams to kill, and who gets who or any of that, if the lockout was still in effect, that would have been a fun mock dispersal draft. 

 

[651akathepaul]

Check it out..Scrap Milwaukee, Sacramento, Charlotte, Memphis. Minnesota moves to Seattle. I'm happy.

 

[gllahone84]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

^ NBA is still a mess. It's ridiculous.

 

[mronegative]

Yea, I mean it wasn't til the last minute that Amar'e was headed to Cleveland at the '10 trade deadline. Steve Kerr doesn't ****** himself into getting nothing for dude ... the Cavs get STAT instead of Jamison ... all of the sudden they might win the chip with a real 2nd option ... then how does the summer go?

It's Cleveland's fault for overvaluing JJ Hickson and it's Phoenix's fault for assuming nobody would pay Amar'e so he'd have to stay. %*!* like that is why #6 left in the first place.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Check it out..Scrap Milwaukee, Sacramento, Charlotte, Memphis. Minnesota moves to Seattle. I'm happy.

Uh, why would we be scrapping Memphis, and not the team with no owner in N.O.?  Memphis is doin just fine right now, aren't they?  The Hornets are the ones with no support and no owner. 

But I could live with the other 3, and Minny to Seattle.
  

 

[651akathepaul]

Swap Memphis with N.O. is good...Done deal.

 

[shogun]

This thread just reminded me when people thought Tim Duncan, Grant Hill, and Tracy McGrady were all going to play in Orlando.  Glad Timmy stayed with the Spurs.

 

[Deleted member 38182]

Originally Posted by DaComeUP

Originally Posted by rck2sactown

Originally Posted by DaComeUP

 You're a Kings fan. Can we not act like the Kings didn't choke away their chance to make it to the Finals?

Can we not ignore the fact that Minnesota had KG his whole career and failed to surround him with the necessary pieces to win. They made so many inept decisions that prevented them from succeeding.

Let's not ignore these things while y'all cry woe is me.

Nobody is ignoring this bro. it just doesn't really add to the argument IMO. Or should I start my post with "The Kings choked away their chance to make it to the finals' everytime I talk about the Kings??

In fact the more I think about it, I'm not too sure what point you are trying to make.

The point is that small market teams have been in the position to succeed but they squander the opportunities away.

This is true, but the opportunities have been so few and far in between compared to the big name teams tho. All franchises have the same equal opportunity to succeed and win. But the difference is, one screw up made by small market teams and that will set them back years if not decades

This is because smaller market teams almost need to depend on the draft to succeed, see the Bucks with Glenn Robinson, Ray Allen, and then Michael Redd. Or even the Kings with Peja and J-Will, and then luckily we were able to trick Webber into staying

 
Anyways, while its true that small market teams have been in positions to succeed their windows of opportunity are very delicate and sometimes even small compared to the forgiving windows that large market teams get to play with. 

 

[gaseousfashion]

Originally Posted by Caerus

Make this the official CP3 thread asap. All news/rumors in here instead of other ones

Definitely should happen.

 

[crazy dav0]

Originally Posted by shogun

This thread just reminded me when people thought Tim Duncan, Grant Hill, and Tracy McGrady were all going to play in Orlando.  Glad Timmy stayed with the Spurs.

... that summer was crazy 

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by cRazy dav0

Originally Posted by shogun

This thread just reminded me when people thought Tim Duncan, Grant Hill, and Tracy McGrady were all going to play in Orlando.  Glad Timmy stayed with the Spurs.

... that summer was crazy 

How horrible would that have been now in hindsight. No draft picks a bunch of aging players and two guys that would be riddled with injuries throughout their perspective careers. But at the time it was like ah man we bout to have a super squad.

 

[im cool c]

^

you never know.. maybe Timmy takes pressure off, lets G-Hill heal correctly from his injury in Detroit, then the load isn't ever too much for T-Mac to handle & he doesn't have to drop 50-10-10 a night ... lol he could've actually saved his career...

ehh what do I know, i played that scenario out in my head for years... im on Orlando fan, remember Kidd was supposed to join Timmy

 

[ill steelo]

Originally Posted by rck2sactown

This is true, but the opportunities have been so few and far in between compared to the big name teams tho. All franchises have the same equal opportunity to succeed and win. But the difference is, one screw up made by small market teams and that will set them back years if not decades

This is because smaller market teams almost need to depend on the draft to succeed, see the Bucks with Glenn Robinson, Ray Allen, and then Michael Redd. Or even the Kings with Peja and J-Will, and then luckily we were able to trick Webber into staying

 
Anyways, while its true that small market teams have been in positions to succeed their windows of opportunity are very delicate and sometimes even small compared to the forgiving windows that large market teams get to play with. 

What large market team outside of the Lakers has had a "forgiving" title window?

The knicks haven't gotten past the first round in 11 seasons

Last season was the first time the Bulls were a legit contender since Jordan left 13 years ago.

The clippers have only been past the first round ONE time since 1976

The Warriors have gotten past the first round once since '91. If you recall, that was the year they toppled DAL. The Warriors haven't been back to the playoffs since.

2008 was the first time the Celtics had a shot at the finals since '02, and before '02 they hadn't been to ECFs since '88

'01 was the first time Dallas got past the first round since '88.

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

Originally Posted by MrONegative

Yea, I mean it wasn't til the last minute that Amar'e was headed to Cleveland at the '10 trade deadline. Steve Kerr doesn't ****** himself into getting nothing for dude ... the Cavs get STAT instead of Jamison ... all of the sudden they might win the chip with a real 2nd option ... then how does the summer go?

It's Cleveland's fault for overvaluing JJ Hickson and it's Phoenix's fault for assuming nobody would pay Amar'e so he'd have to stay. %*!* like that is why #6 left in the first place.

If Steve Kerr knows he is getting an amnesty in year 2 of the deal Amar'e is still in Phoenix....
They didn't want to guarantee years 4-5 that's all. But they offered a package the same as NY just without those years guaranteed.

 

[mronegative]

Originally Posted by gangsta207therevolution

Originally Posted by MrONegative

Yea, I mean it wasn't til the last minute that Amar'e was headed to Cleveland at the '10 trade deadline. Steve Kerr doesn't ****** himself into getting nothing for dude ... the Cavs get STAT instead of Jamison ... all of the sudden they might win the chip with a real 2nd option ... then how does the summer go?

It's Cleveland's fault for overvaluing JJ Hickson and it's Phoenix's fault for assuming nobody would pay Amar'e so he'd have to stay. %*!* like that is why #6 left in the first place.

If Steve Kerr knows he is getting an amnesty in year 2 of the deal Amar'e is still in Phoenix....
They didn't want to guarantee years 4-5 that's all. But they offered a package the same as NY just without those years guaranteed.

That's only on Steve Kerr for letting Amar'e become available, because he assumed that same money could replace him...then all of the sudden after the deadline Amar'e went h.a.m. on the league and dude still wouldn't offer him the contract.

But regardless...I'm talking about how small market teams make bad decisions and why stars leave. Cleveland thought JJ Hickson was so valuable, that they'd rather keep him and add Antawn Jamison, than get Amar'e. That decision probably cost them the title and #23.

 

[nooera]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Oh, and I do agree that we should contract 4 teams.  100% agree.  And I think the improvement of that would be initial, but could work, take 4 small markets that suck, and dispersal draft them, in some order, record or whatever, so Paul would be the first pick to say........Indiana.  Now they have Paul, Granger, Hibbert, nice good start.  If they can convince someone to join that trio, they have a chance to at least contend.  Maybe then Paul doesn't mind staying.  His situation now, he works for a league run team, that won't get him a single shred of help to win titles, which is all he cares about.  It ain't all money, as he would be proving leaving for less money.  Bron took less money too, he wants a chance to win, he took the easier route.  Paul would find it easier to win with 2 very good players, than 10 mediocre players, and one really good player.  (West) 

Kill NO, the Bucks, Charlotte (again) annnnnnnd someone else, I dunno, the Kings if you want.  So #2 pick goes to Detroit, and they take Cousins.  Bogut goes #3 or 4, etc on down the line.  Minnesota could take Tyreke Evans.  Eventually, the jobs will thin out (which is why the players won't ever go for this) and the 12th man on each team won't be quite as crappy as before, but still crappy of course. 
The money is easier to use with 4 less teams, so more money for each player, even in small cities.  (Although, with 4 less teams, means less money, unless great seasons are pumped out, and interest is at an all time high, even without the 4 citites)  Maybe even move another team or two if you want, move a struggler back to Seattle or something. 

I'm just doin this off the top, I haven't actually sat and thought of 4 teams to kill, and who gets who or any of that, if the lockout was still in effect, that would have been a fun mock dispersal draft.