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That would actually mean something if Romo and Eli put up similar stats but they don't.
That was a pretty pathetic argument by the way...
QB THREAD - 2x quarterbacky award winner: Lamar Jackson
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by 651akathepaul,
- Start date
That would actually mean something if Romo and Eli put up similar stats but they don't.
That was a pretty pathetic argument by the way...
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Ryan Lindley now has as many career playoff passing TDs as Andy Dalton.
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Brown said some **** like Luck is "as good" as Dalton.
Someone get that man off the air.
Someone get that man off the air.
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Not to you in particular but this is just the ultimate "I lost the argument" statement
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They do.
S4L is also right that Romo's stats are better but hey, Eli also won 2 SBs with some outstanding postseason play.
I was just commenting on the "Throw out whatever stats you want" turn of phrase.
Luck must have taken down Troy's wife., mom, and daughter at the same time, while Troy watched, to be sayin some **** like that.
Should have followed up by asking if Luck replacing Lindley would have had any affect on that outcome.
do work son
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Former players provide pretty bad analysis. Warren Sapp said JJ Watt doesn't get double teamed, and that no team game plans for him.
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Troy
One Andrew the same as another...
One Andrew the same as another...
DeadsetAce
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I hate that byes don't count as playoff wins. They do and should IMO. Peyton and Tom both advanced to the second round of the playoffs this year. Give them a 'playoff win'
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DeadsetAce
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that's an interesting thought. boston sports talk brought that up too when comparing the two.
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Alonzo gif.
Sounds stupid on the surface, but it really makes a ton of sense if you really think about it.
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fraij da 5 11
http://www.nfl.com/labs/rr/toastoftitletown/toastoftitletown
Copy + paste the link, it isn't working if you click on it.
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Cmon JJ, really think about. It's genius
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Did you really read this?
Joint is like 50 miles long on my phone. Gonna finish it up after dinner.
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It's a really good read.
DeadsetAce
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here's another one on the Diva and his deep ball....
http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/sto...-packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-talks-art-deep-ball
http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/sto...-packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-talks-art-deep-ball
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I think being a top two team in each conference for an entire regular season is equal to (at least) a playoff win
Look at it this way, if Peyton loses this weekend people will look back at these playoffs and see that both he and Ben had zero playoff wins. That's wrong IMO, Peyton was in the divisional round, Ben only in the WC round. Peyton deserves credit for that, he had a more successful post season. The easiest way to show that credit (because we never reference what players have the most playoff byes) is giving them a playoff win for making the second round
Look at it this way, if Peyton loses this weekend people will look back at these playoffs and see that both he and Ben had zero playoff wins. That's wrong IMO, Peyton was in the divisional round, Ben only in the WC round. Peyton deserves credit for that, he had a more successful post season. The easiest way to show that credit (because we never reference what players have the most playoff byes) is giving them a playoff win for making the second round
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When I met him back in May '09 I asked him about the draft class that had just come in... Raji and Clay and then Lang in the 4th. Obviously I didn't know jack about Lang at the time but I was interested about what he thought about BJ at 9 mainly. He said he'd be lying if he said he wasn't texting his coaches about Crabtree who was available (taken at 10). I thought it was sick that he would say some **** to me like that.
Forgive me in advance for rambling......
The discussion we had in the NFL thread got me thinkin, then the games tonight added to it.
A "majority" of people list a Top 3 ever in the NFL QB argument, many will list Joe Montana and/or Peyton Manning.
Joe, the playoff legend.
Peyton the regular season legend.
Joe praised for 4-0
Peyton knocked for 1-2. Hell, his brother has more Super Bowls.
The year Peyton did win, one of the worst playoff years of his career.
Michael Jordan considered the greatest of all time in the NBA. 6-0.
The best year MJ ever had was 1987-88. 35 points, 5.5 rebounds, 6 assists, 3.2 steals. MVP, All NBA, All Defense, highest PER of his storied career, highest wins shares, O rating, etc etc. 24 years old. Peak of his powers. No title.
The next year, he went 32.5/8/8 and 3 steals. Absurd. Age 25. No title.
Kobe's best year, 2002-03. No title.
2005-06. No title.
2012-13. No title.
Lebron with the Cavs before going to the Heat. Insane years. Never won. Til he went to Miami.
Legends are all about winning. Only, winning takes about 500,000 variables for one to get there. Owner, money, GM, coach, offense, defense, special teams, kickers, run the ball, throw it, stop the run, stop the pass, playcalling, luck, weather, refs, injuries, assistants, and on and on and on.
Sit in here long enough, we see people chop up Joe, Favre, Brady, Rodgers, Peyton, Brees, Romo, Elway, Marino, Aikman, Luck, Wilson (
) Ben, MJ, Shaq, Kobe, Bron, Durant, Kershaw, etc etc. It's what we do. "Eval" eras, stats, teams, players, coaches and so on.
Elway goes 0-3, gets older, slower, not as good, but gets Terrell Davis, back to back at 37-38.
Brady 3-0 with elite D and camerawork, becomes a MACHINE at QB, goes 0-2 vs Eli and his miracle throws that cannot be dropped.
Kurt Warner, maybe 2 feet from being 3-0, or 0-3.
Troy for his career, 160+ TD's, 140+ INT's.
Playoffs? 23-17 ratio. Won 3 SB's in 4 years.
Irvin, Emmitt, Harper, Novacek, Dieon, Haley, Maryland, Woodson, Norton......
Jim Kelly goes to 4 straight SB's, but loses all 4. Thurman, Reed, Lofton, Bruce Smith, Daryl Talley, Cornelius Bennett. Lot of talent. Just couldn't beat the NFC East. 0-4.
Barry Sanders runs for more yards than anyone, to a point, then just quits. Emmitt surpasses, takes record, postseason glory, possible GOAT. Barry finishes out a full career, he may shatter the records. 20K possible.
Never had a shred of postseason success. Might be greatest runner we ever see, but his team was never in the hunt to elevate his status.
Same as the origin of all that debate yesterday, Dan Marino. Greatest QB I've ever seen. But doesn't get the recognition because Joe Montana 4-0. Or Peyton regular season PLUS 1 SB.
Jim Kelly beat Dan 3 times in the playoffs. Or, Bruce Smith, Talley, Bennett, Thurman, Reed, etc did. Miami defense gave up 341 yards rushing one game.
Kelly went 0-4 in SB's, but had enough talent to get there, just not win.
What if Buffalo drafted Dan, and Miami took Kelly?
Could Dan then be a winner with Thurman, Bruce, Reed, etc? Would Buffalo go 0-4?
Situations mean so much. No one factors those in. I've said in here before, if Joe played for Shula, with a UPS driver for a RB, and a Tom Olividodi defense, does he go 4-0?
If I gave Dan Bill Walsh, Dwight Clark, Rice, Craig, Taylor, Jones, Rathman, Lott, Haley, is he still just 0-1?
This year Ryan Tannehill became the first 3rd year QB in history with 4,000 yards, 25+ TD's, 12 or fewer INT's with a rating over 90. He broke Dan's completions in a season record. Watered down stats in a watered down era.
Multiple games Ryan lost because of his defense. GB, Det, Denver, Baltimore, Jets. Ryan had the lead on all of them, finished 8-8. Coulda been 13-3. Wake, Grimes, Jones are nice players.
Tonight I watched Cam battle Bennett, Sherm, Kam, Earl, Irvin, Wagner, Wright. All on one damn unit.
And it made me wonder. Would Ryan have his 13-3 with those 7 protecting leads vs GB, Det, Balt, Denver and the Jets?
Would Russ be as great under Joe Philbin, without the same level of defense?
Andrew, trading Trent for Lynch and 7 franchise level defenders?
I get caught up in it too. I examine and reflect on titles across sports, and try to quantify things. Is Madison Bumgarner a better pitcher than Greg Maddux?
Barry Bonds never won a World Series, Pablo Sandoval got a handful of jewelry.
Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco. Kelly and Marino.
Elway elevates at 37-38 with 2 SB's. If Old man Marino won a title at 38, 14 years after his 1984 season, that would validate his career?
If Russ repeats vs Brady or Peyton next month, do they drop a notch while Russ rises up?
Brady could have 50,000+ yards, 400+ TD's, reach 6 Super Bowls in 14 years with 1 team, most playoff wins, yards, TD's in history, but if he goes 3-3, Joe is better cuz 4-0? Even tho Joe has HALF those numbers and triple/quadruple the hall of famers on his roster?
****, this post has a lot of words.
I expect to get lit up like a Christmas tree for this one. Sorry for the ramble. But hope I made some folks think a little.
The discussion we had in the NFL thread got me thinkin, then the games tonight added to it.
A "majority" of people list a Top 3 ever in the NFL QB argument, many will list Joe Montana and/or Peyton Manning.
Joe, the playoff legend.
Peyton the regular season legend.
Joe praised for 4-0
Peyton knocked for 1-2. Hell, his brother has more Super Bowls.
The year Peyton did win, one of the worst playoff years of his career.
Michael Jordan considered the greatest of all time in the NBA. 6-0.
The best year MJ ever had was 1987-88. 35 points, 5.5 rebounds, 6 assists, 3.2 steals. MVP, All NBA, All Defense, highest PER of his storied career, highest wins shares, O rating, etc etc. 24 years old. Peak of his powers. No title.
The next year, he went 32.5/8/8 and 3 steals. Absurd. Age 25. No title.
Kobe's best year, 2002-03. No title.
2005-06. No title.
2012-13. No title.
Lebron with the Cavs before going to the Heat. Insane years. Never won. Til he went to Miami.
Legends are all about winning. Only, winning takes about 500,000 variables for one to get there. Owner, money, GM, coach, offense, defense, special teams, kickers, run the ball, throw it, stop the run, stop the pass, playcalling, luck, weather, refs, injuries, assistants, and on and on and on.
Sit in here long enough, we see people chop up Joe, Favre, Brady, Rodgers, Peyton, Brees, Romo, Elway, Marino, Aikman, Luck, Wilson (
) Ben, MJ, Shaq, Kobe, Bron, Durant, Kershaw, etc etc. It's what we do. "Eval" eras, stats, teams, players, coaches and so on. Elway goes 0-3, gets older, slower, not as good, but gets Terrell Davis, back to back at 37-38.
Brady 3-0 with elite D and camerawork, becomes a MACHINE at QB, goes 0-2 vs Eli and his miracle throws that cannot be dropped.
Kurt Warner, maybe 2 feet from being 3-0, or 0-3.
Troy for his career, 160+ TD's, 140+ INT's.
Playoffs? 23-17 ratio. Won 3 SB's in 4 years.
Irvin, Emmitt, Harper, Novacek, Dieon, Haley, Maryland, Woodson, Norton......
Jim Kelly goes to 4 straight SB's, but loses all 4. Thurman, Reed, Lofton, Bruce Smith, Daryl Talley, Cornelius Bennett. Lot of talent. Just couldn't beat the NFC East. 0-4.
Barry Sanders runs for more yards than anyone, to a point, then just quits. Emmitt surpasses, takes record, postseason glory, possible GOAT. Barry finishes out a full career, he may shatter the records. 20K possible.
Never had a shred of postseason success. Might be greatest runner we ever see, but his team was never in the hunt to elevate his status.
Same as the origin of all that debate yesterday, Dan Marino. Greatest QB I've ever seen. But doesn't get the recognition because Joe Montana 4-0. Or Peyton regular season PLUS 1 SB.
Jim Kelly beat Dan 3 times in the playoffs. Or, Bruce Smith, Talley, Bennett, Thurman, Reed, etc did. Miami defense gave up 341 yards rushing one game.
Kelly went 0-4 in SB's, but had enough talent to get there, just not win.
What if Buffalo drafted Dan, and Miami took Kelly?
Could Dan then be a winner with Thurman, Bruce, Reed, etc? Would Buffalo go 0-4?
Situations mean so much. No one factors those in. I've said in here before, if Joe played for Shula, with a UPS driver for a RB, and a Tom Olividodi defense, does he go 4-0?
If I gave Dan Bill Walsh, Dwight Clark, Rice, Craig, Taylor, Jones, Rathman, Lott, Haley, is he still just 0-1?
This year Ryan Tannehill became the first 3rd year QB in history with 4,000 yards, 25+ TD's, 12 or fewer INT's with a rating over 90. He broke Dan's completions in a season record. Watered down stats in a watered down era.
Multiple games Ryan lost because of his defense. GB, Det, Denver, Baltimore, Jets. Ryan had the lead on all of them, finished 8-8. Coulda been 13-3. Wake, Grimes, Jones are nice players.
Tonight I watched Cam battle Bennett, Sherm, Kam, Earl, Irvin, Wagner, Wright. All on one damn unit.
And it made me wonder. Would Ryan have his 13-3 with those 7 protecting leads vs GB, Det, Balt, Denver and the Jets?
Would Russ be as great under Joe Philbin, without the same level of defense?
Andrew, trading Trent for Lynch and 7 franchise level defenders?
I get caught up in it too. I examine and reflect on titles across sports, and try to quantify things. Is Madison Bumgarner a better pitcher than Greg Maddux?
Barry Bonds never won a World Series, Pablo Sandoval got a handful of jewelry.
Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco. Kelly and Marino.
Elway elevates at 37-38 with 2 SB's. If Old man Marino won a title at 38, 14 years after his 1984 season, that would validate his career?
If Russ repeats vs Brady or Peyton next month, do they drop a notch while Russ rises up?
Brady could have 50,000+ yards, 400+ TD's, reach 6 Super Bowls in 14 years with 1 team, most playoff wins, yards, TD's in history, but if he goes 3-3, Joe is better cuz 4-0?
Even tho Joe has HALF those numbers and triple/quadruple the hall of famers on his roster? ****, this post has a lot of words.
I expect to get lit up like a Christmas tree for this one. Sorry for the ramble. But hope I made some folks think a little.
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The What If game applies to everything in life
You judge the best of the best by winning, moments and stats
In regards to Dan Marino
The Dolphins had a higher rated defense than the Bills in all 3 meetings!
1990 Dolphins-4th Bills 6th
1992-Dolphins-11th Bills 14th
1995-Dolphins-10th Bills 12th
In 1990 Marino was average in a shootout vs Kelly completing 47 percent of his passes while throwing 1 touchdown pass and 2 interceptions
1992- Marino was bad at home, going 22 of 45 with 2 interceptions and a fumble in a 19 point loss to the Bills
The 1995 game were the Bills rushed for over 300 yards was a bad game defensively
But Marino wasn't much better with his 4 turnovers
In 1997, The Dolphins defense only gave up 228 total yards vs Pete Carrolls Patriots but the difference was Marino's poor play, 17 of 43 for 141 with 0 TDP and 2 interceptions, one that was returned for a pick six touchdown
Marino wasn't great in the playoffs
Dan Marino was 8-10 in the playoffs with 32-24 TD/INT with a quarterback rating 10 points lower than his regular season rating
That is a huge reason why he doesn't have a ring
You judge the best of the best by winning, moments and stats
In regards to Dan Marino
The Dolphins had a higher rated defense than the Bills in all 3 meetings!
1990 Dolphins-4th Bills 6th
1992-Dolphins-11th Bills 14th
1995-Dolphins-10th Bills 12th
In 1990 Marino was average in a shootout vs Kelly completing 47 percent of his passes while throwing 1 touchdown pass and 2 interceptions
1992- Marino was bad at home, going 22 of 45 with 2 interceptions and a fumble in a 19 point loss to the Bills
The 1995 game were the Bills rushed for over 300 yards was a bad game defensively
But Marino wasn't much better with his 4 turnovers
In 1997, The Dolphins defense only gave up 228 total yards vs Pete Carrolls Patriots but the difference was Marino's poor play, 17 of 43 for 141 with 0 TDP and 2 interceptions, one that was returned for a pick six touchdown
Marino wasn't great in the playoffs
Dan Marino was 8-10 in the playoffs with 32-24 TD/INT with a quarterback rating 10 points lower than his regular season rating
That is a huge reason why he doesn't have a ring
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It's too early. I'll come back to this.
Yet, Troy Aikman goes 23-17, and has 3 rings...........
You sure love them boxscores.
I see, that 4th rated Defense in 1990 sure worked out, givin up 44 points on the road, vs a team comin off a bye, in freezing temps.
Ratings tho.
Curious, does the boxscore mention Buffalo punting ONCE, the entire game? (And that came with 5 minutes left in the game, up 17.)
Does the boxscore mention Dan getting them back to 30-27, before the Bills drive for a TD, then Marc Logan fumbling the kickoff and the Bills scoring 2 plays later? Got any ratings on that?
44 points, 1 punt. 4th rated tho........
92 was their best chance, imo, outside of 94. Home game for AFC title game, but like I said, we could never beat Buffalo.
I wonder......your boxscore show Thurman Thomas fumbling inside the 10, Marco Coleman recovering, then he fumbles it right back, setting up the Bills first and goal at the 8?
How bout 13-3 at half, Miami receives the kickoff......annnnnnnd Mike Williams fumbles, which leads to Buffalo TD, 20-3. Do you "remember" that in your boxscore?
I mean......when your team is trailing, can't run the ball, have to throw pretty much every play, you're gonna have a pick here and there. Like Troy, and his 17.
Difference is, Troy had teammates that could back him up. So did Jim Kelly.
Dan? No other Hall of Famer on his defense. Or HOF running back. Hell, even Clayton/Duper never made the hall.
But hey, boxscores.
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