QB THREAD - 2x quarterbacky award winner: Lamar Jackson

[DeadsetAce]

i think many try to "know and understand all the context" (not a shot at you, CP) but no one truly does. there's just too much to consider and cohesively look at. it's literally impossible. people throw out the ranks of team defenses and then kick back with a smile. just another empty stat that lacks context in its own right. division strength, schedule, coaching all get used without context. people throw out "oh but if this play went differently...", or "if the coach didn't kick it there". and so on and so on. there is so much you could look at when comparing different QBs on different teams across different eras. but i guess that's what makes it fun. different folks have different ways of looking at it and rank various factors differently. fun to debate that stuff for days (or years as a few of us have done )

and then you just have the fantasy heads that sort of ruin the whole thing

 

[elpablo21]

 

[IATT]

luck

 

[SneakerProSr.]

 

[CP1708]

Contracts that haven't kicked in yet?

Mahomes and Allen contracts THIS YEAR are not Top of the market. Next year they will be.

Burrow is obviously a rookie deal.

I posted this years numbers just a page back. It don't match what he's tryin to imply.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Contracts that haven't kicked in yet?

Mahomes and Allen contracts THIS YEAR are not Top of the market. Next year they will be.

Burrow is obviously a rookie deal.

I posted this years numbers just a page back. It don't match what he's tryin to imply.

I didn't say anything but the true cap cost for Matt Stafford is damn near 45 million when you account for Goff's dead money.

Once I saw that I kinda dismissed that spreadsheet

 

[CP1708]

I didn't say anything but the true cap cost for Matt Stafford is damn near 45 million when you account for Goff's dead money.

Once I saw that I kinda dismissed that spreadsheet

Yes, the Rams are a very special case for sure. I guess that eliminates every other QB/salary and every other year the last 20+ years then.

"7 of the final 8 teams have top of the market veteran QB contracts"

Reality says:

Again, Allen and Mahomes contracts kick in, NEXT year. That doesn't apply this season. And Brady being 15th = Top of the market, I guess?

That dude is beyond full of ****

 

[CP1708]

Even if I get off Cap Hit, here's the list for highest earners at QB this year. (Bonuses and what not)

Where, exactly, do we see 7 of 8 here?

Is he going 32 teams, half = 16, so he's going up to 16 teams and purposely saying "Top half"?

Then ignoring cap hit to say you can build a full roster with high QB salaries no problem.

That's a lot of mental and math gymnastics to get the info to say what you want. We just never see the highest paid QB's win the SB over the last 25+ years, but hey. *Shrugs*

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Yes, the Rams are a very special case for sure. I guess that eliminates every other QB/salary and every other year the last 20+ years then.

"7 of the final 8 teams have top of the market veteran QB contracts"

Reality says:

Again, Allen and Mahomes contracts kick in, NEXT year. That doesn't apply this season. And Brady being 15th = Top of the market, I guess?

That dude is beyond full of ****

Brady is 15th because of cap gymnastics.

So if the Bills and Chiefs kick the can down the road and restructure they don't meet your criterion doesn't count anymore?

 

[CP1708]

Brady is 15th because of cap gymnastics.

So if the Bills and Chiefs kick the can down the road and restructure they don't meet your criterion doesn't count anymore?

No sir. Brady is 15th because he ALWAYS takes less money. That has been known, for years.

I don't know what you mean by kick the can. You mean re-do their deals each year, or how mean?

My point to them, today, is they are in final years of their rookie deals. (Dak, Watson, Baker as well)
THEN their Max deals kick in next year. Mahomes 490+. Allen 250+. Watson 4/160 etc.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

No sir. Brady is 15th because he ALWAYS takes less money. That has been known, for years.

I don't know what you mean by kick the can. You mean re-do their deals each year, or how mean?

My point to them, today, is they are in final years of their rookie deals. (Dak, Watson, Baker as well)
THEN their Max deals kick in next year. Mahomes 490+. Allen 250+. Watson 4/160 etc.

The Bucs are paying a 24 million dollar cap hit for Brady in 2022 whether he’s on the team next year or not no matter what They kicked the can with voidable years the day he signed in Tampa to arrive at the low cap number you are sighting

 

[IATT]

Context matters with all of this

Chiefs ain’t have to draft a RB in the first when ain’t hard to see what Jonathan Taylor or Antonio Gibson from that same draft could have done there

 

[CP1708]

The Bucs are paying a 24 million dollar cap hit for Brady in 2022 whether he’s on the team next year or not no matter what They kicked the can with voidable years the day he signed in Tampa to arrive at the low cap number you are sighting

Year by Year of Brady and his rank among QB's. Two decades worth. Top 5 six times. They didn't make the SB a single one of those times. Damn near all the other years, including last year at #6, he would make it.

 

[elpablo21]

Cap doesn't exist just owners who are being cheap

 

[IATT]

Cap doesn't exist just owners who are being cheap

cc: saints

 

[CP1708]

Cap doesn't exist just owners who are being cheap

Explain.

There are examples of teams over spending the cap to win titles like the Yankees?

 

[elpablo21]

Explain.

There are examples of teams over spending the cap to win titles like the Yankees?

I'm saying there's always a way to avert some doomsday cap situation. Saints have had negative cap space multiple times recently.

Rams have like 6 guys taking up like 70% of their cap in an attempt to win a ring

At the end of the day if you really want a player or players you can get them. The whole notion of the cap holding a team back is filmsy. It's whether the owner wants to end up paying more than they want to at that time. They can always cash out a player right now and kick down cap money down the road every year if they want to but again the money becomes real and you have to cash guys out

 

[CP1708]

I'm saying there's always a way to avert some doomsday cap situation. Saints have had negative cap space multiple times recently.

Rams have like 6 guys taking up like 70% of their cap in an attempt to win a ring

At the end of the day if you really want a player or players you can get them. The whole notion of the cap holding a team back is filmsy. It's whether the owner wants to end up paying more than they want to at that time. They can always cash out a player right now and kick down cap money down the road every year if they want to but again the money becomes real and you have to cash guys out

I see.....and the Saints won titles doing this?

No.

Well, they made the Super Bo......oh, no.

So.....?

You guys can keep spinning, you're not getting past the fact that if you pay your QB top dollar, you aren't winning. Rodgers is going to try to break that curse/theory this year.

And by Manning, he means old, decrepit, couldn't throw a spiral, Denver Manning, and Eli.

 

[CP1708]

Note, the year Russ won, he was SOOOOOOOOOOOO far down the pay scale, he wasn't listed. That's why you don't even see him listed on this sheet. (I have it filtered to W or L the Super Bowl that season)

 

[elpablo21]

All I'm saying is when Mahomes contract kicks in and there is a high money player available that is "beyond" their cap situation there is nothing stopping them from achieving this.

Russ has repeatedly mentioned he is fine restructuring his deal but the franchise rather hamstring themselves to an imaginary threshold

My initial post was the hard cap doesn't exist and owners don't want to pay players more than they have to, period. I'll continue to think that way

 

[SneakerProSr.]

I see.....and the Saints won titles doing this?

No.

Well, they made the Super Bo......oh, no.

So.....?

You guys can keep spinning, you're not getting past the fact that if you pay your QB top dollar, you aren't winning. Rodgers is going to try to break that curse/theory this year.

And by Manning, he means old, decrepit, couldn't throw a spiral, Denver Manning, and Eli.

I haven't looked it up since Calvin played for Lions but I'm sure it rings true today.

If you apply an arbitrary % of cap spent on any of the top 5 highest paid positions in the NFL(LT,pass rusher, quarterback, wide receiver, corner) none of the highest paid ones ever were on a Super Bowl winning team.

So you can say don't pay anyone at any highly valuable position if you want and not only apply it to quarterbacks.

 

[CP1708]

All I'm saying is when Mahomes contract kicks in and there is a high money player available that is "beyond" their cap situation there is nothing stopping them from achieving this.

Russ has repeatedly mentioned he is fine restructuring his deal but the franchise rather hamstring themselves to an imaginary threshold

My initial post was the hard cap doesn't exist and owners don't want to pay players more than they have to, period. I'll continue to think that way

So the Chiefs won't lose any players from their roster then? They'll keep any player they want once his contract kicks in? As long as the owner wants to pay it? You believe that?

 

[651akathepaul]

 

[elpablo21]

So the Chiefs won't lose any players from their roster then? They'll keep any player they want once his contract kicks in? As long as the owner wants to pay it? You believe that?

Every year you have guys come off the books you don't want
Every year you will have guys you draft you create space for
You will always have players you deem interchangeable with others
So Yes, every CORE guy they want to keep they can keep if they want to pay it up front
Most owners do not WANT to spend the money when it's in their power to do so

 

[CP1708]

Every year you have guys come off the books you don't want
Every year you will have guys you draft you create space for
You will always have players you deem interchangeable with others
So Yes, every CORE guy they want to keep they can keep if they want to pay it up front
Most owners do not WANT to spend the money when it's in their power to do so

So I'm clear......

If/when KC follows this 2 decade pattern of not winning the SB cuz QB takes up 15% of the cap, you'll ignore that and say it's the owner to blame?
Sign your name here please. ______________