QB THREAD - 2x quarterbacky award winner: Lamar Jackson

[mister friendly]

The 3rd turnover is slightly better because its basically a punt but lets be real, how many turnovers are like that?

They are still turnovers though, if a running back ran 50 yards and was stripped at the plus 30 yard line vs fumbling on his own 15 yard line. You aren't going to say one is a better turnover, they both suck.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

I've seen quarterbacks win Super Bowls in which they go 9/21 for 123 yards and 2 picks and not have to throw touchdowns until their team is already up by 29 points.

I've seen Tony Romo throw for 500 yards and 5 TDs, but still get the blame for a loss because of a lone turnover.

There's a lot more that goes into football than QB play but eh, it is what it is.

 

[fraij da 5 11]

Ya'll acting like teams score on 10 possessions of the 12-13 that they get every game.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

I will say that Luck deserves a lot of the blame for the loss to the Jets tho. Defense was playing really solid until Vontae Davis went down and they had Fraij back there playing DB.

Gore may have fumbled but Luck was throwing high most of the night. He should know by now to audible into short routes and screens if he's getting walloped every play.

Pep needs to watch some damn Patriots film or something. As much as I love the "ASTERISK IT, I'M GOING DEEP!" football that the Colts run out there, you aren't going to have 4-5 seconds in the pocket w/ that o-line.

Dink and dunk may be boring but it's damn effective *and* it will open up those heaves to Moncrief/TY.

 

[dmxfury]

Worked with Pitt and their crappy o line (improved this year)

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Worked with Pitt and their crappy o line (improved this year)

Pitt with Bell and Bryant is going to be silly. Ben is already killing it with deep balls this year, gonna be putting up video game numbers soon.

 

[DeadsetAce]

I will say that Luck deserves a lot of the blame for the loss to the Jets tho. Defense was playing really solid until Vontae Davis went down and they had Fraij back there playing DB.

Gore may have fumbled but Luck was throwing high most of the night. He should know by now to audible into short routes and screens if he's getting walloped every play.

Pep needs to watch some damn Patriots film or something. As much as I love the "ASTERISK IT, I'M GOING DEEP!" football that the Colts run out there, you aren't going to have 4-5 seconds in the pocket w/ that o-line.

Dink and dunk may be boring but it's damn effective *and* it will open up those heaves to Moncrief/TY.

bravo. agree with all of this.

the colts weren't down by some crazy score. yet he's still chucking it up into double and triple coverage. maybe the play calling should have been adjusted? but it felt like desperation mode way too quick. throwing at revis when he has a guy blanketed? dumb. there were a lot of dumb decisions made by luck that game, even considering the fact that he was getting hit while he threw a number of times.

ches makes fun of brady for the dink and dunk game all the time (semi trolling, i know ). but it's what makes Brady so damn good. he takes what the defense gives. the SB was a prime example. took his shots deep when he had the right matchup (wright on gronk), but just took the short to medium passes. avoided sherman because you don't throw at the guy for the hell of it. AR12 the other night versus SEA. threw at sherman on free plays and coverage breakdowns. but not when he has a guy blanketed. he remembers the NFCCCG


and for the record, i don't think he throws too many INTs given his situation. i'm talking about one game in particular where i thought his decision making was poor.

 

[mister friendly]

I will say that Luck deserves a lot of the blame for the loss to the Jets tho. Defense was playing really solid until Vontae Davis went down and they had Fraij back there playing DB.

Gore may have fumbled but Luck was throwing high most of the night. He should know by now to audible into short routes and screens if he's getting walloped every play.

Pep needs to watch some damn Patriots film or something. As much as I love the "ASTERISK IT, I'M GOING DEEP!" football that the Colts run out there, you aren't going to have 4-5 seconds in the pocket w/ that o-line.

Dink and dunk may be boring but it's damn effective *and* it will open up those heaves to Moncrief/TY.

Yep I definitely agree.I don't like the Colts scheme. Its too high risk/high reward. Too many deep attack concepts.

It would be interesting to see Andrew Luck play in a system that emphasizes the dink and dunk with a occasional zone read.

Theres no point lining up in 21 or 11 personnel in the dot, if you don't have a real running game.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

I still don't understand why they don't run more bootlegs with him. You've got a big, strong, durable QB that can throw on the move.

 

[CP1708]

Why is Russell Wilson in this discussion?

Is Russell Wilson=Andrew Luck, I don't believe I've said that?

Russell Wilson has GREAT defense...Andrew Luck does NOT.

Instead of wishing Andrew Luck had a defense like Russ, how about not turning the ball over as much and giving your average defense a larger margin for error?

No those guys have a higher chance of throwing an interception when they threw the ball than Andrew Luck does( for a variety of reasons) but I'd be willing to guess that they didn't turn the ball over more than Andrew Luck does.

Just roughing looking over the numbers....Andrew Luck has thrown 48 interceptions in 50 games which is about .96 interceptions a game....Steve Young threw 107 interceptions in 169 games which is about .63 interceptions a game

Which over a season that is about 10 interceptions vs 15 interceptions, that may not sound like much but in today's NFL could be the difference between a 1 seed and 4 seed.

We aren't talking about fantasy stats, we talking about winning NFL championships and turning the ball over a lot isn't constructive towards that goal.

This right here is a perfect example of a man trying NOT to grasp anything, and just making up stuff as he goes along.

Just roughing looking over the numbers....Andrew Luck has thrown 48 interceptions in 50 games which is about .96 interceptions a game....Steve Young threw 107 interceptions in 169 games which is about .63 interceptions a game

Steve Young first 3 FULL seasons in SF, he threw 402, 462, and 461 passes. 33 INT's.
Luck first 3 FULL seasons in Indy, he threw 627, 570, and 616 passes. 43 INT's.

1325
1813

Luck threw 488 more passes than Steve Young did, and only 10 more INT's.


Steve Young 2.6 INT%
Andrew Luck 2.5 INT%


Steve Young threw more INT's on a per pass ratio than Andrew Luck does, why do you not grasp this simple fact? Because you don't WANT to, because it doesn't fit your agenda.

We aren't talking about fantasy stats, we talking about winning NFL championships and turning the ball over a lot isn't constructive towards that goal.

 

[CP1708]

the colts weren't down by some crazy score. yet he's still chucking it up into double and triple coverage. maybe the play calling should have been adjusted? but it felt like desperation mode way too quick. throwing at revis when he has a guy blanketed? dumb. there were a lot of dumb decisions made by luck that game, even considering the fact that he was getting hit while he threw a number of times.

????

He had 3 INT's. The first, he was throwing to the 2nd receiver, and the receiver in front reached out and tipped the pass. Bad play design to begin with to have 2 receivers in the same area, but not double or triple coverage.
#2 he is hit on the arm throwing to Dorsett, who is one on one with Revis, not double or triple coverage.
#3 he is again hit while throwing, and it's one on one on the ouside.........


So, none of the 3 INT's he threw came with double or triple coverage, and 2 of them were while being hit, and the other one was tipped by his own guy in a poorly designed route.

I'm not saying any of that to absolve Luck of the results, but I'm questioning the narrative of "chucking it up into double and triple coverages"??????

 

[Chester McFloppy]

I don't think DSA was talking about the picks -- just the bad decisions in general. He made some very questionable "why are you throwing that?!" passes.

 

[CP1708]

Ok, that would make sense then, my bad. I was assuming he was talking the picks. My bad DSA.

 

[DeadsetAce]

^ yeah no worries, man. i wasn't talking about the picks. more so just in general.

 

[fraij da 5 11]

 Not only has Rodgers not thrown an interception this season, he hasn’t put the ball in harm’s way once in his two games.

 

[mister friendly]

Bro you aren't trying to grasp it.

NFL teams only average around 12 possessions a game.

A team could do whatever they want with those possessions....they could run with their running back 400 times or can throw 700 times.

It really doesn't matter, if those possessions end in turning the ball over and giving the other team between 1-2 more possessions that's not constructive to winning in the NFL.

 

[CP1708]

Bro you aren't trying to grasp it.

NFL teams only average around 12 possessions a game.

A team could do whatever they want with those possessions....they could run with their running back 400 times or can throw 700 times.

It really doesn't matter, if you are turning the ball over and giving the other team between 1-2 more possessions that's not constructive to winning in the NFL.

I know.

And Andrew Luck turns it over LESS than Montana, Young, Elway, Marino, Kelly, Aikman, Peyton, Ben, Fouts, Eli, etc etc etc

Less

Fewer

Not as often

 

[dmxfury]

There are literally two seperate arguments and metrics being used and its fascinating to watch


Rodgers ball security is sick

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Not many guys can handle balls the way Aaron Rodgers does.

 

[fraij da 5 11]

Not many guys can handle balls the way Aaron Rodgers does.

 

[CP1708]

INT's after 50 career starts

Peyton, 62
Aikman, 59
Marino, 57
Ben, 50
Montana, 37
Brees, 42
Romo, 53
Elway, 56


Luck, with 48, and he's thrown way more passes than any of these guys, at 1,899.

Luck = fewer turnovers than any of the elites outside of Rodgers and Brady.

 

[a55a5in11]

 

[DeadsetAce]

not surprising with the ball handling



and CP and MF are using two different metrics...so the back and forth is amusing

 Not only has Rodgers not thrown an interception this season, he hasn’t put the ball in harm’s way once in his two games.

not bad for just 60 or so attempts....

 

[mister friendly]

No, Andrew Luck turns the ball over more per game than most of them.

You can trying to make a turn over per throw thing.

When turnovers don't work like that

The takeaway/give away margin is measured in totals they don't break it down to percentage of plays that are turnovers.

 

[fraij da 5 11]

not surprising with the ball handling

and CP and MF are using two different metrics...so the back and forth is amusing

 

 

 Not only has Rodgers not thrown an interception this season, he hasn’t put the ball in harm’s way once in his two games.

not bad for just 60 or so attempts....

Don't get me started on that douche Brady trotting out there throwing 48 times a game this season....