***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

When there were great jobs reports, people like Ninja said nothing.

last time i checked, you dont call da cable company randomly to tell them your 1080p feed is coming in just fine... what kinda logic u on b?

**** hits da fan and rusty more angry i got da audacity to basically point at da situation and state "there's a problem".

**** didn't hit the fan

And second, you were on NT before today talking about look at the U6 to see how bad things are under Obama (not even noticing it is trending down too), because the U3 wasn't giving you a talking point.

 

[ninjahood]

da U3 is a fake number, da fact that your citing "talking points" basically concedes that da real numbers are in da crapper.

**** didn't hit the fan

da fed just dropped even thinking bout raising da interest rates, plus da fact that labor participation rate is at a RECORD low...yeah b..**** is definitely hittin da fan.

 

[blco02]

Socialism: Venezuelans Are Marked With Numbers To Stand In Line At Government Supermarket

http://www.businessinsider.com/venezuelans-marked-with-numbers-for-food-2014-3

 

[slighted]

Venezuela is in shambles. Truly a terrible situation all around.

Maduro 

 

 

[ninjahood]

Socialism: Venezuelans Are Marked With Numbers To Stand In Line At Government Supermarket

http://www.businessinsider.com/venezuelans-marked-with-numbers-for-food-2014-3

how idiots running that place squander da #1 proven oil reserves is beyond me..oh wait socialism

 

[rexanglorum]

Ninja, Maduro is a Latino and is clearly a failure. By your own logical regarding socialism, you as a Latino, must be a failure.

Venezuela is falling apart because of horrible governance. Bad governance is why the conservative State of Mississippi is much poorer than the liberal and historically well governed Common Wealth of Massachusetts.

One could also say that Venezuela's corrupt ruling elite personally profited while stealing from the Venezuelan people. In other words, Venezuela's politicians did what any good Objectivist would do, they pursued their own rational self interest and disregarded the concerns of the collective.

 

[RIP sleazyy]

Venezuelan socialism ≠ Nordic model of socialism

 

[ninjahood]

Venezuelan socialism ≠ Nordic model of socialism

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion...list-utopia/lUk9N7dZotJRbvn8PosoIN/story.html

No, Scandinavia doesn’t “violate the laws of the economic universe.” It confirms them. With free markets and healthy values, almost any society will thrive. Socialism only makes things worse.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Venezuela's problems are due to bad governance. Tons of capitalist countries have failed, and no one sees that as an indictment against the entire system.

And if socialism is so universally bad, why do Ninja and Blco support a candidate that openly says over and over that we are "being killed by China", a socialist state

Matter of fact, putting the interest of the common citizen/worker is much more a socialist ideal and a capitalist one. So part of Trump's attraction is his pseudo socialist rhetoric. Da irony

 

[ninjahood]

It is perhaps surprising how the myth of Sweden’s successful socialist system lives on abroad, decades after state control over the economy was rejected in the country itself

http://capx.co/scandinavian-unexceptionalism-8-the-third-way-model-a-collosal-failure/

 

[ninjahood]

Matter of fact, putting the interest of the common citizen/worker is much more a socialist ideal and a capitalist one

you can be serious.

capitalism promotes da idea that da best & brightest will soar, socialism makes everyone have equal results, regardless of performance, which squelches individual liberty, opportunity and innovation...

whats da point of doing good if da next man is gonna make exactly what i make? innovation down da drain.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Matter of fact, putting the interest of the common citizen/worker is much more a socialist ideal and a capitalist one

you can be serious.

capitalism promotes da idea that da best & brightest will soar, socialism makes everyone have equal results, regardless of performance, which squelches individual liberty, opportunity and innovation...

whats da point of doing good if da next man is gonna make exactly what i make? innovation down da drain.

You're confusing a meritocracy with capitalism.

And you confusing communism with socialism.

-What's the point of the man down the hall paying less in rent that what I have to pay. Seems to me you love the welfare state when it works for you, but hate it only in have to talk political theory on the internet

 

[blco02]

China ain't socialist

 

[ninjahood]

China ain't socialist

as if their mandated 1 child policy wasn't a glaring clue

 

[RustyShackleford]

China ain't socialist

You do know they are a self declared socialist state, they are not pure socialist true, nor are they the best examples of socialism

But lets not act like the it is all free markets and capitalism over there.

And I wasn't trying to use China as some gold standard.

I'm saying if socialist are so universally bad, why is Trump openly saying that self declared socialist are kicking America's ***, and why do you let that slide?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Matter of fact, putting the interest of the common citizen/worker is much more a socialist ideal and a capitalist one

you can be serious.

capitalism promotes da idea that da best & brightest will soar, socialism makes everyone have equal results, regardless of performance, which squelches individual liberty, opportunity and innovation...

whats da point of doing good if da next man is gonna make exactly what i make? innovation down da drain.

You're confusing a meritocracy with capitalism.

And you confusing communism with socialism.

-What's the point of the man down the hall paying less in rent that what I have to pay. Seems to me you love the welfare state when it works for you, but hate it only in have to talk political theory on the internet

China ain't socialist

China ain't socialist

as if their mandated 1 child policy wasn't a glaring clue

Now you're confusing a dictatorship and socialism

One is a political system, the other is an economic system

Seems like your knowledge of socialism doesn't extend beyond conservative talking points

 

[ninjahood]

tell that to North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela...

 

[RustyShackleford]

tell that to North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela...

This literally proves nothing. It doesn't change the definition of socialism to being "must be ran by a dictator"

Matter of fact, it goes to the point that governance matters a lot.

 

[ninjahood]

umm no.. socialism has failed everywhere its tried on earth, its a flawed system regardless of da government.

even da Nordics abandoned it.

capitalism is da reason da United States is an economic super power compared to everyone else.

 

[blco02]

 

[RustyShackleford]

umm no.. socialism has failed everywhere its tried on earth, its a flawed system regardless of da government.

even da Nordics abandoned it.

capitalism is da reason da United States is an economic super power compared to everyone else.

Nordics don't practice pure socialism, but they have a very robust welfare state

And the United States became the economic super power that partly because of New Deal era policies. Which were much more socialist in nature than pure capitalist

Unless strong labor unions, social safety nets, and public programs, and government intervention are hallmarks of capitalism now?

And America has many "socialist" programs. I'm sure you were educated at a public school, get welfare for housing, your health insurance is partly paid for by tax credits to your employer, and you use public transportation.

The Nordic practice social democracy, a mixed between social and capitalism. America is a mixed economy as well. The argument is about the right mix.So it is foolish to completely dismiss one or the other.

 

[Belgium]

Never gets old watching Ninja struggle debating economics with someone with an actual degree in economics 

 

[ninjahood]

umm no.. socialism has failed everywhere its tried on earth, its a flawed system regardless of da government.

even da Nordics abandoned it.

capitalism is da reason da United States is an economic super power compared to everyone else.

Nordics don't practice pure socialism, but they have a very robust welfare state

And the United States became the economic super power that partly because of New Deal era policies. Which were much more socialist in nature than pure capitalist

Unless strong labor unions, social safety nets, and public programs, and government intervention are hallmarks of capitalism now?

And America has many "socialist" programs. I'm sure you were educated at a public school, get welfare for housing, your health insurance is partly paid for by tax credits to your employer, and you use public transportation.

The Nordic practice social democracy, a mixed between social and capitalism. America is a mixed economy as well. The argument is about the right mix.So it is foolish to completely dismiss one or the other.

da MTA NYC has was started by private sector companies (Interboro rapid transit)

my rent is a grandfathered deal that doesn't exist anymore.

and pure socialism has failed everywhere its been implemented.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Question, did thr Interview Rapid Transit go bankrupt and was purchased by the city or state? If so, is that really your example for capitalist private enterprise?

The MTA is funded by public tax money, and has been than way for most of its existence. Everytime you have used the service, it has been that way.

I don't even know how that is a defense for rent control. It was not born out of some pure form of capitalism.

I'm a big supporter of housing subsidies. Done right, it can be an incredible successful policy. But NYC rent control system is not done right. It misses its public policy goal, it has a major free rider problems, and it distorts the market. But even with those problems (especially the free rider problem) I'm still cool with it exists because it helps some well deserving people. But you're are part of the free rider problem. Let's make that clear

If you're a die hard free market economist, then you would what it gotten rid off immediately. Let the market set the price, not a government impose price control. Matter of fact one of the reasons rent control has been able to survive is the tax credits given to landlords.. So congrats, well redistribution is saving your ***. But that doesn't sound very capitalist to me, b

And pure capitalism has failed too, there are no purely capitalist states outchea flourishing. I think you haven't stopped and thought of what pure capitalism looks like, because America definitely isn't an example. Capitalism has failed America plenty of times, Great Depression being the biggest example. And it was social programs, government intervention, and demand side program that helped this country and build the middle class. Along with other things, one of which being still be a capitalist nation.

And funny we have to talk about the post war era when talking about US capitalism. Because going back further in the past, it gets really ugly, really quickly.

Like I said, it is about getting the right mix, with good implementation, and good governance.

I'm not a socialist either, but I hate these closed talking points regarding socialism. It is a red herring used to deflect from important discussions about public policy. Progressives, social democrats and even self proclaimed socialist in America are not asking for the country to practice pure socialism. We are asking for the robust welfare state that we have built for the rich and wealthy be reorganized to benefit the poor, lower and middle classes. To practice social democracy. A program that has roots in both socialism and capitalism.

Talking about it as a black and white issue is stupid.

 

[ninjahood]

all those words...and yet it still doesn't change da fact that pure socialism has NEVER worked.

cant say da same for capitalism.

and thats just da bottomline b.