***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Methodical Management]

Young men's economic prospects are shifting, along with their politics

For David Tasker, an 18-year-old construction worker in Pennsylvania, his top financial priorities are having enough money for gas, dining out and spending on his girlfriend while living at home with his parents.

www.yahoo.com

I think those men issues are cultural. An 18-year old restaurant worker has no business driving an expensive vehicle. It's just not sensible.



Yeah, looks like they don't feel welcome in the Democratic party because they'd get called out for that kind of language. I suppose that's what is meant by "culturally feminine."

Somehow, in the span of fifty days we went from “keep calling them weird; it’s working!” to “Harris needs to go on the Lex Fridman podcast to propose a tax holiday for anime body pillow purchases made with cryptocurrency or she’ll lose the election!”

 

[trappedintime]

Somehow, in the span of fifty days we went from “keep calling them weird; it’s working!” to “Harris needs to go on the Lex Fridman podcast to propose a tax holiday for anime body pillow purchases made with cryptocurrency or she’ll lose the election!”

Blame that on her Biden acolyte-run campaign. Did we need Liz Cheney in her cabinet just cause she hates Trump? Did we need the weird messaging to end because some moron said it wasn’t polling well when it was making a huge impact? Did we need her messaging to appeal to conservatives when she’s running the most pro-abortion campaign ever?

The only conclusion is the same losers who were trying to prop up Biden in July are antsy and afraid of losing now so they’re shifting the messaging in the dumbest imaginable way.

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[Air Champa]

A very heart warming story for all the "good ones" out there.

He voted for Trump. Now he and his wife raise their son from opposite sides of the border

He voted for Trump because of abortion. Now the president's immigration stance means he and his wife raise their son from opposite sides of the border.

www.latimes.com

TLDR Quote:

After a year of dating, Jason proposed. They got married in his uncle’s backyard. Then came Ashton. Cecilia gave up her job cleaning hotels and settled into life as a stay-at-home mom in this affluent Atlanta suburb, making Ashton pancakes and grits for breakfast and taking him for strolls to the local park.
“You’re not a criminal,” Jason tried to reassure her. “You don’t have to worry about it.”
Jason had faith that the Trump administration would distinguish between good and bad immigrants. Cecilia had never even gotten a traffic ticket.
“In my mind, bad hombres were people who did bad things,” he said. “We figured that he was going to get rid of the people we didn’t want.”
So he voted for Trump, assuring himself and his wife that the ultimate decision was in God’s hands.
A few days after taking office, Trump signed an executive order that expanded Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s focus to most of the 11 million immigrants in the U.S. illegally, regardless of whether they had a criminal record.

 

[dacomeup]

Somehow, in the span of fifty days we went from “keep calling them weird; it’s working!” to “Harris needs to go on the Lex Fridman podcast to propose a tax holiday for anime body pillow purchases made with cryptocurrency or she’ll lose the election!”

Beltway consultants are cleaning up while giving awful advice

 

[frink85]

icing on the cake:

Man arrested near SoCal Trump rally member of so-called 'Sovereign Citizens' group, officials say

The Riverside County sheriff said the suspect's vehicle's fake license plate was indicative that he was a member of the so-called Sovereign Citizens group, who do not believe they are subject to any government regulations.

abc7.com

...that the vehicle had a fake license plate and the suspect had "multiple" fake passports and fake driver licenses with different names.

The sheriff said the vehicle's phony license plate was indicative that Miller was a member of the so-called Sovereign Citizens group, who do not believe they are subject to any government regulations, including those for guns and vehicles.

 

[trappedintime]

icing on the cake:

Man arrested near SoCal Trump rally member of so-called 'Sovereign Citizens' group, officials say

The Riverside County sheriff said the suspect's vehicle's fake license plate was indicative that he was a member of the so-called Sovereign Citizens group, who do not believe they are subject to any government regulations.

abc7.com

I thought the icing on the cake was that he unsuccessfully ran for office with the platform of getting to the bottom of voter fraud in NV

 

[osh kosh bosh]

The democratic basket of policies contains some items that religious people value, and others they don't.

Someone who ranks abortion restriction over better access to childcare is more likely to vote based on the abortion policy of the party. You can present your logical case on why abortion restriction is a bad idea, but that logic will run into the obstacle of their religious principles. The only thing that changes this outcome is either them rearranging their priorities, and that is independent of Dem messaging, or Dems dropping support for pro-choice policies.

We're seeing this exact scenario with Gaza.


That is only true if men go from Dem voters to non-voters.

What it looks like instead, is a lot of these men are switching from Dem to Rep voters, and it's happening while the republican party altered their messaging to explicitly support the kind of men's rights activists who want to cancel no fault divorce, restrict abortion, eliminate contraceptives, etc... How is that not an attempt to send women back to the kitchen?

Again non politically engaged people are not voting on the details of the policy, rather the broad messaging from the two parties.

you can think men and women are equal, and also think, the republican party in general feels like they are more concerned about me.

and you see this in polling,

even as young men move to the republican party. most young men still think women working is a good thing, think women are just as good as men in politics.

so this idea because young men are voting republican it means they don't believe in the equality of the sexes or that women should just stay in the kitchen. doesn't seem to be true.

And can we put to bed this idea that Democrats are not concerned with the issues men face? When they campaign on medical policies, they mostly resonate with old

the democratic party basically spent years telling men that they don't care. again you can't blame people from hearing the messaging.

It's tiring to have to entertain the nonsense.

too bad. its the job of a politician to entertain it.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Look maybe Obama scolding will work, or maybe there is a big polling error in the dems favour and none of this will matter.
or maybe men will just stay home, given that women are more consistent voters than men.



but losing black, latino and young men trending to the republicans is pretty massive problem moving forward for the democratic party.
I think it's reasonable to ask how they plan to fix it.



maybe im dumb but this seems pretty concerning. i dunno if calling them "weird" will fix it

 

[brian8598]

icing on the cake:

Man arrested near SoCal Trump rally member of so-called 'Sovereign Citizens' group, officials say

The Riverside County sheriff said the suspect's vehicle's fake license plate was indicative that he was a member of the so-called Sovereign Citizens group, who do not believe they are subject to any government regulations.

abc7.com

Was he from Newfreeland?

 

[worldbeefreeg]

It's funny cause the one time they even gave the illusion of moving left in 2008, they swept the electorate in a way that seems impossible today, and then quickly just gave into lobbying and the likes, and decided to move to the center.

Now you're left with a generation of disillusioned young people who were looking for change and now are embracing fascism instead.

 

[dacomeup]

It's funny cause the one time they even gave the illusion of moving left in 2008, they swept the electorate in a way that seems impossible today, and then quickly just gave into lobbying and the likes, and decided to move to the center.

Now you're left with a generation of disillusioned young people who were looking for change and now are embracing fascism instead.

At this point, praying for a Harris win and open primary in 2028 with a progressive candidate. Even if she wins, the Trifecta isn’t happening so it’ll be a deadlock for her term and she’s not going to get anything done.

 

[p0tat0 5alad]

I may be out of the loop but I’m not aware of any Trump policies that solely benefit young men.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

It's funny cause the one time they even gave the illusion of moving left in 2008, they swept the electorate in a way that seems impossible today, and then quickly just gave into lobbying and the likes, and decided to move to the center.

Now you're left with a generation of disillusioned young people who were looking for change and now are embracing fascism instead.

unfortunately none of this is true,

The democratic party has moved to the left on just about every issue since 2008.

remember

- 08 Obama was opposed to gay marriage.
- Hillary and obama were arguing about an individual mandate there was zero talk on medicare for all.
- government spending on the recovery is way smaller than the covid spending.
- Obama spent way more time talking about fiscal responsibility and fighting inflation.

the idea that "oh dems moved to the center," is just a convenient story some progressives tell themselves.

 

[1995]

Was he from Newfreeland?

One of those agents is the voice of Spongebob

Also, one of the other regulars from Mr Show turned out to be an insurrectionist

 

[trappedintime]

unfortunately none of this is true,

The democratic party has moved to the left on just about every issue since 2008.

remember

- 08 Obama was opposed to gay marriage.
- Hillary and obama were arguing about an individual mandate there was zero talk on medicare for all.
- government spending on the recovery is way smaller than the covid spending.
- Obama spent way more time talking about fiscal responsibility and fighting inflation.

the idea that "oh dems moved to the center," is just a convenient story some progressives tell themselves.

That’s true and those are also issues that 65-70% of Americans have supported. I do think there’s a large segment of black men that would fully support eroding the rights of gay Americans. The homophobia isn’t just a myth. Definitely been a point of division with some (even now former) black friends.

Worth keeping in mind that Biden got the nomination by winning black evangelicals and southerners. His bid was floundering until Super Tuesday and Clybourn backing him

 

[gry60]

broad messaging from the two parties

I haven't said anything about how Democrats plan to accomplish their goals; that's policy details. I've been talking about Democrats' promises and goals. If that is not broad messaging, what is?

And what's the broad messaging of the GOP?

What is it that attracts these men to the GOP that the Democrats are not offering (broadly speaking)?

the democratic party basically spent years telling men that they don't care.

How? By advocating for better women's pay? By encouraging women to enter male-dominated fields (STEM/military)?

 

[05fordgt]

I may be out of the loop but I’m not aware of any Trump policies that solely benefit young men.

He hasn't told us ANY of his policies!

 

[IATT]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I haven't said anything about how Democrats plan to accomplish their goals; that's policy details. I've been talking about Democrats' promises and goals. If that is not broad messaging, what is?

just put yourself in the mind of a non political young man who doesn't consume news content, and mostly develops their opinions from whatever happen to leak down to the politics adjacent media young men consume.

what is more likely to break through the specifics, or the broad culture war conflicts and messaging?

you can see the stuff that breaks through;

the stuff that seems to break through is
"Trump, is a bad guy who says wild things, and does bad stuff
and dems will protect healthcare and abortion rights."

but many voters, especially men think that while being a bad guy who does bad stuff,
he will be better on the economy, and immigration.


you don't need to hate women to prioritize the economy and immigration over abortion and personal character. i disagree obviously. but writing them all off as unreachable seems silly.

How? By advocating for better women's pay? By encouraging women to enter male-dominated fields (STEM/military)?

by centering every other minority group in their messaging and never directly addressing men,
Richard Reeves wrote book talking about the decline of young in america, and he notes how the Democratic party messaging often omits men.

you could totally make the argument that the infrastructure bill specifically helps men and non college educated men, but democrats don't really foreground that in messaging the policy.

 

[gry60]

He hasn't told us ANY of his policies!

He has.

Just like in 2017, he'll pass more tax cuts to sunset for the middle class but remain permanent for the wealthiest among us.

He'll let Israel finish the job and pull out of Ukraine.

He'll take away abortion access and rights.

He'll send the military after political opponents.

He'll institute a better Muslim ban and deport all Palestinians from the US.

In fact, he'll also target other legal immigrants from **** hole countries.

He'll blackmail blue states into adopting red state policies under threat of access to federal funds.

The copy machine at Mar-a-Lago will be working overtime.

He'll put tariffs on more imported goods, which won't matter because your savings on your tips will cover the increase in cost of living.

Finally, He'll praise young men in all his speeches and call them the arrowhead of the nation.

 

[chao7]

the democratic party basically spent years telling men that they don't care. again you can't blame people from hearing the messaging.

Can you elaborate on the ways in which the Democratic party has communicated to men they don't care about them?

 

[pmatic]

 

[IATT]